Last Dyno of the ES2.

[2ndGenGuy]

Put my ES2 on the dyno for the last time. Over 310,000 miles on that good old engine. Still not running too bad. I managed to finally get that Weber 38 to work. It looks like since my original dyno, I've managed to squeeze a few extra HP.

My original dyno put down 67whp. That was with the ignition timing WAY off (probably a loss vs stock power), and only a 32/36 Weber, stock exhaust manifold, original flywheel. Also done on a Mustang dyno (which tends to read a little low) at about 80 degrees F with a decent amount of humidity.

I went home tonight, fixed all my vacuum leaks (which was originally why my Weber 38 wasn't running right). Re-jetted the carb on the butt dyno at home (spent about 20 minutes on it). And drove it into the shop. The 38 ran pretty damn good. It was running a little bit on the lean side at first. But not bad for tuning by ear and butt. Ran about 93hp on the first run with about a 17afr at idle and about 16 in the top end.

So after getting the AFR properly tuned using the shop's wideband, the second run came out much better. I got the AFR, still a bit lean, to about 15 across the board by just adjusting the idle mixture screws. Then it jumped up to a peak of 97.1whp.

Since the last dyno, I've been able to properly set my timing correctly. The old flywheel was caked in grease and I kinda went by ear, which was way off. I upgraded the 32/36 up to a 38. Installed some Accel 8mm plug wires and MSD coil. Installed my DC Sports header and had a full custom 2.25inch exhaust. The results are pretty amazing. Even if the old dyno read a bit low, I got a good jump in horsepower from all the work that's been done. It was also cold as fuck out and fairly dry.

There's probably a ton of little things I could have done to squeeze it up to 100hp, I'm pretty sure. Probably some minor porting on the intake manifold. Smooth out the transition between the adapter plates. Probably could have upped the jet main size by one size since the throttle linkage was only opening about 95% of the way. And when we manually opened it to full, it leaned out a bit more but didn't get any more HP. Also, cleaning the massive amounts of soot out of the chokes, removing the choke plates, in-setting the screws in the throttle plates for a bit better flow. But anyways, it was fun and I'm happy.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3120/3202511499_bf58a26f9e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/3202511499/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3405/3203368108_eb9471979d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/3203368108/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3354/3203368814_a1055a6dab.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/3203368814/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3202519347_4d6f0dc15d.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/3202519347/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3443/3202520663_9944dc4c8b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/3202520663/)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3202522011_aedbfb6f6a.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jgturk/3202522011/)

And here's the video of the second and third runs. Fucking camera didn't have auto-leveling built in for the mic, so it clipped the shit out of the audio. Sorry for the awful noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iXgQ5N7Mwc

I'll definitely be putting the B20A up on this same dyno, so I can compare more accurately between the two engines.

:rockon:

Now to proceed with the B20A swap. :hsugh:

[Rendon LX-i]

thats nice john very nice. i cant wait to see what the b20 going to put out.

[Lil Mike]

favorite that on youtube, that a bit difference from what you had before, pretty sweet man. what are you going to end up doing with the es2 once the b20 is in.

[2oodoor]

feels kinda wrong taking out a good running engine? I know that feeling

[rjudgey]

hmmm miles must be taking a toll on the engine, Is it a CVCC head? 100bhp seems a bit low really consider i was getting 115bhp with downpipe and exhaust and a rejet on the stock carbs?? But i suppose being a downdraught and the extra miles probably about right. What was the torque numbers i got 127.5lbft on my ET with the exhaust.

[2ndGenGuy]

Yessir it's a CVCC head. It's not 97bhp actually, it's at the wheels. So factor in another 10-15% for horsepower at the crank. I got about 125lb-ft at the wheels as well, which is pretty decent. I imagine the Prelude dual sidedrafts would be a little more efficient being that they're more direct to the runners and don't have to curve the flow 90 degrees then split the fuel flow 4 ways.

Also the CVCC motors tend to be torquey. I don't know if it's just because they wanted to appeal to the torque-obsessed American market at the time where the CVCC engines would be mostly sold, or if it's due to the way the CVCC pre-chamber adds more torque due to the extra air-fuel mixture. Or maybe it's a little bit of both.

[AccordB20A]

not bad john not bad im waiting to see a stock b20a dynoed now lol

[84Accord]

oh how i wish my 84 had that power haha

[MessyHonda]

wow that is a big jump in power....cool stuff man

[88LXi68]

that is pretty impressive considering what you had from the start and that those motors came with 86hp at the crank from the factory. good job!

[84Accord]

hey john... wanna send me your engine as is? haha or just the weber and header? hahah j/k

[codyJDM]

What a beast! Can't wait to see the future progress John :D

[2ndGenGuy]

hey john... wanna send me your engine as is? haha or just the weber and header? hahah j/k

Ha! Weber is going on the hatch. And the header is going into safe keeping for now. Keeping it for future plans down the road... You can have the block and head if you want. :rofl:

[Hazwan]

Cool! Can't wait to see the B20!

[gfrg88]

pretty nice.. kinda confused on AFRs though.. you said, you were running them 15:1??? or am i completely confused?? if so, thats TOO lean!!

[2ndGenGuy]

pretty nice.. kinda confused on AFRs though.. you said, you were running them 15:1??? or am i completely confused?? if so, thats TOO lean!!

Yeah it was 15:1ish. I wasn't really worried because the engine is now pulled out of the car. And I don't think that it's too lean for an N/A car for the short term. Long term, I would probably crank it back a bit. It's only 3/10 of a point off of stoich. 14.7 right?

[Hauntd ca3]

yeah is close to stoich but slightly rich at full load is preferable for engine life.
say 13.5 to 14:1

[2ndGenGuy]

That's what I'll do with the B20A. See: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=925457&postcount=99 :D :D :D

[gfrg88]

Yeah it was 15:1ish. I wasn't really worried because the engine is now pulled out of the car. And I don't think that it's too lean for an N/A car for the short term. Long term, I would probably crank it back a bit. It's only 3/10 of a point off of stoich. 14.7 right?

stoich is perfect. But not when a car's at WOT. It should really be 13.0-13.5:1 n/a. and 12.0-12.5:1 for FI cars...

14.7 should be at idle or cruising, never at WOT.

Here's something I found useful a while ago, when I was barely getting into tuning ecu's..


thats funny...he's actually talking to me like i'm new to this lol

My own words: Lean mixtures add more power because with lean mixtures you raise the heat in the cylinders. The added heat adds more pressure, more pressure means higher cylinder pressures resulting in more power. Not to mention the a/f mixture is more efficiently and thoroughly burned. By leaning out too much however you run the risk of causing too much heat which can result in detonation, surging, and pinging which causes burned valves, melted pistons, and melted spark plug electrodes.

Richer mixtures DO NOT and will not add power. Raising fuel pressure is one of the only ways to make more fuel make more power and that gets into fuel atomization. Rich mixtures lower combustion chamber temperatures. Contrary to the above mentioned lean mixtures, lowering combustion temperatures lowers the cylinder pressures resulting in less power. Running way too rich will leave unburnt fuel in the cylinders, if its never burned how can it make power? The good thing about running rich is that its safe to an extent. For n/a motors under WOT rich is 12.5:1 or less and lean is anything above a 13.5:1. I generally tune all of n/a customers to 13.0:1 at WOT and my FI customers to 11.7:1 at WOT and at full boost.

Why'd you go into a foot long spill about what n/a means? I'm not confused at all but maybe you are on how much i know?
You tune an engine at WOT on the street or preferably on a dyno...something load based

An actual datalog of the stock f22 ecu i did with my wideband under WOT, notice the a/f says 12.6 :


This information is derived from my own experiences and tuning sessions. This next section is my proof, it seems i'm not the only one that believes what i'm saying. Threads and quotes from those threads backing up my claims:

http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/inde...y;threadid=716
"13.5 AFR while NA"
"Think carefully when picking your AFRs. The old saying "lean is mean" applies. You'll almost always (well, within reason) make more power with a leaner AFR (13.5 vs 13.0 or 12.0 vs 11.5, etc.). You may find that EGTs go through the roof with a leaner AFR. You may find that all of a sudden the motor wants to ping. PAY ATTENTION! START RICH + WORK LEANER."

General A/F ratios to tune by:
http://uberdata.pgmfi.org/forum/atta.../foshizzle.jpg

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...p?ArticleID=59
- " I would not proceed past higher (leaner) than an air:fuel ratio of 13.5:1"

http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=7898
- green 91 wrote:"well 14.7:1 is the "ideal" A/F ratio for every engine."

Replies - " No, its not. Do some reading before giving people completely wrong information."
"Ideal for emissions on a gasoline engine maybe, but not for power. Once again, don't spread misinformation."
"green = idiot, 14.4-.7 is ideal for IDLE Conditiions and some crusing conditions, WOT should be between 13.1-12.8 from what i've been tuning for.."

Please try not to undermine my intelligence, i didn't do it to you so why would you do it to me? I'm sorry if this embarrasses you but like i said before with simple correction some of your first post was a bit misleading. In closing, WOT and 0 vac is not to be confused with idle and cruising conditions. With idle and cruising conditions your looking for the 14.7:1 a/f but with WOT and 0 vac that changes greatly. Your information could have resulted in alot of blown motors.

[2ndGenGuy]

I should have done another pull, getting the mixture down to around 13.5 to see if there was any lost power. I knew that running it a touch to the lean side would yield more power, and I didn't have a whole lot of time on the dyno. So I just adjusted it as closely as possible to stoich, left it lean and checked out what it would do.

As mentioned above, it ran at about 17:1 on the first pull. I drove it all the way to the shop like that, but you could hear it sputtering a bit. Ran pretty good at 15, but yes, for sure, for longevity, slightly rich at WOT is where you want it. I had only thrown the carb on the car about 2 hours before the dyno, had to track down a vacuum leak and screw with a bunch of other stuff. :) So I think overall it came out pretty good. :cool: