Time to let the cat out of the bag. DCOE manifold.

[markmdz89hatch]

Hey guys, so I have to admit, I've been holding out on you guys.

After nearly 10 years of my searching, e-mailing, calling, visiting shops, etc, and many other peoples hard work and persistence, there is finally a production DCOE manifold made specifically for the A20, and at the correct angle for the orientation in our cars.

Here's some pics of the first and only one in existence at the moment. I wanted to wait and let everyone know once I had the chance to install this and test it for real, but it's not entirely fair because I have no idea how long it'll take me to get mine running.

The manifold is a sand-cast 6061 Aluminum manny that used a base stock of a B18, but the flanges have been milled down on both sides to achieve the proper angle without having the full angle cut on only one side (which would have caused too much air disturbance).

The brand: Rowland Manifolds. http://www.manifolds.co.za/
You can get them from Extrudabody here in the US, or order direct from Rowland (they are located in South Africa). I would suggest ordering direct as Extrudabody tacks on a margin for profit, which I can't blame them for. Rowlands prices are extremely fair (almost too low to believe), and the quality of the casting is second to none for a sand-cast. It's not light, but weight on a manifold that's got to be strong enough to hang a set of $1200 carbs without fear of breaking is something I'm willing to sacrifice.

I worked with Rowland (the owner) over the course of months to get this done, and it's finally got a done stamp on it.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm178/mark_mdz/A20A%20dcoe%20manny/RXS_2245.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm178/mark_mdz/A20A%20dcoe%20manny/RXS_2244.jpg

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm178/mark_mdz/A20A%20dcoe%20manny/RXS_2243.jpg

[carotman]

Nice these are sexy!

[2ndGenGuy]

Sweet man! If you wanna loan me those Webers, I'll be more than happy to test it out on my B20A!!! :) That's MUCH nicer looking than my DCOE manifold. Is it for 40's or 45's? How much are we looking at here?

[markmdz89hatch]

40's or 45's will work just fine. If i'm not mistake, this will also work with 48's.

No idea on current pricing. He use to list it on his site, and at that time (last Sept ish) he didn't have any US dealers, so I purchased direct from him. We also had worked out a different price due to all of the R&D he put into it, and because it was the first of a new offering.

[2ndGenGuy]

Man his website is total intake pr0n.

Dual 38 intake for a V6 with ramhorns!!!
http://www.manifolds.co.za/images-gallery/DSC02702.gif

And he's got a good listing of interesting manifolds as well! Twin sidedraft manifolds and Toyota throttle body adapters for looks like B16 and B18s. Not that this DCOE manifold can't be used for Weber and Weber-style throttle bodies! Very cool!

[markmdz89hatch]

yeah, he'll also do a custom cut on the carb flange of our manifold in order to adapt early Toyota ITB's if someone wanted to do that. I was going to have him do another one, but to fit those 'yota itb's, but funding fell short, and whatever I had, I wanted to put toward something I was actually going to use.

[cubert]

damn man...that is some cool stuff.


Cant wait to see it installed :thumbup:

[Rendon LX-i]

thats just sick....

[AccordB20A]

much less bullshit than the stock carbs haha

[2oodoor]

this looks interesting, the air horns and dual linkage

nice efforts Mark!
John beat me to it, but since I am closer I would be glad to test this :bandit:

[Vanilla Sky]

Sucks, I sold my DCOEs to buy my current 3gee.

[87roach]

That is sooooo nice and clean, DAMN! Props again mark on the hard work to get these beauty's, hell if I wasn't efi I would surely get one...

[Vanilla Sky]

Yeah, those things look killer. I may go with some DCOE throttle bodies in the future.

[2ndGenGuy]

That is sooooo nice and clean, DAMN! Props again mark on the hard work to get these beauty's, hell if I wasn't efi I would surely get one...

*cough* throttle bodies *cough*

[87roach]

My god yes, that would be amazing.. but alas there are no injector porties :(

[AccordB20A]

this looks interesting, the air horns and dual linkage

nice efforts Mark!
John beat me to it, but since I am closer I would be glad to test this :bandit:

nah johns cars manual so it will actually be cooler lol

[2ndGenGuy]

My god yes, that would be amazing.. but alas there are no injector porties :(

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/images/efi_hardware_tapered_throttle.gif

They're right there. :)

[lostforawhile]

yes that is a good price, you have no idea how much work it is to build something like that until you've done it. now you are going to post up a bunch of pictures of how he adapted the ports over to the round ports correct? and what do you mean by air disturbance? i just milled off the manifold at the correct angle and tig welded on the heavy plate the other manifold bolts too,i don't see an air disturbance problem.

[Civic Accord Honda]

fucking titays

[markmdz89hatch]

yes that is a good price, you have no idea how much work it is to build something like that until you've done it. now you are going to post up a bunch of pictures of how he adapted the ports over to the round ports correct? and what do you mean by air disturbance? i just milled off the manifold at the correct angle and tig welded on the heavy plate the other manifold bolts too,i don't see an air disturbance problem.

Sure I'll post up pics of that too. Just give me a day or so and it'll be done.

as for the angles...

When talking to a few old skool shops up here that have done custom manifolds, and bringing them my twm manifold (fits perfect, but no angle) all three shops that used to do carbs, and still do, all said that they would prefer not to cut the angle just on one side of the runners and just reweld the flange at the correct angle as it would be too much of an angle on just one side, and instead to correct the angle by milling the runners on both sides and rewelding the flanges back on. So if trying to accomplish a 12* cut, they would take 6* off each side rather than the full 12* from one side. Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but just saying what a number of shops (unrelated to each other) and Rowland suggested be done to accomplish the proper angle.

In this case, the runners were not cut, because he was able to get the manifold cast with a very thick flange so he had enough material to mill each flange down the 6* (ish) degrees in order to get the carbs to sit at the proper tilt when installed on the motor. Same idea though.

[2oodoor]

nah johns cars manual so it will actually be cooler lol

matter of opinion, but I do have a five speed DX remember I have two modded 3 gens

[MessyHonda]

looks good now slap it on that ported and polished head

[87roach]

Aye, thanks for shovin' me foot in me' mouth.

Hmm.. I will have to consider this as another option.

[L3G10N]

ohhhh!!! Carotman told me to come here to check this out!! Can't wait to know the price. You can bet that I am a buyer!

[3rd Party]

http://www.tweakit.net/shop/images/efi_hardware_tapered_throttle.gif

They're right there. :)

what website can i get those from?? i'd like to convert to individual throttle bodies, but i'm worried about computer management and MAP sensor nonsense

[2ndGenGuy]

what website can i get those from?? i'd like to convert to individual throttle bodies, but i'm worried about computer management and MAP sensor nonsense

There are lots of options. You just need to search for DCOE-style ITBs. There are quite a few options out there. You can get them from Redline Weber, thats one I know of. You can get somewhat of a MAP signal by tapping the vacuum ports that some of these have, and running them to a common vacuum manifold. Might be good enough to run the stock computer.

[A18A]

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!

[3rd Party]

There are lots of options. You just need to search for DCOE-style ITBs. There are quite a few options out there. You can get them from Redline Weber, thats one I know of. You can get somewhat of a MAP signal by tapping the vacuum ports that some of these have, and running them to a common vacuum manifold. Might be good enough to run the stock computer.

so i'd need four vacuum lines into one, into the MAP sensor?

[markmdz89hatch]

so i'd need four vacuum lines into one, into the MAP sensor?


I'll take a picture of my vacuum setup. Each runner is tapped and run into a manifold. But my manifold feeds into a single vacuum canister from which all vacuum needs pull. I'm not sure on the ITB's, but I don't think you'd need a vacuum can, but instead just hang the MAP off the line that I would be running to the can.

I'll get the pics tomorrow morning and post them up by the end of the day.

[rjudgey]

Nice i like it glad to see I'm not the only one out there making Weber manifolds lol!! I like the short intake approach might buy one and see how it compares to my super long A20 6.5" intake manifold and then to my super short 1.5" ET1 intake manifold! So now just hurry up and get those suckers bolted up! If you want some jetting advise just hit me up on email and I'll give you some ideas if you let me know what you got done to your engine and exhaust systems.

[markmdz89hatch]

Nice i like it glad to see I'm not the only one out there making Weber manifolds lol!! I like the short intake approach might buy one and see how it compares to my super long A20 6.5" intake manifold and then to my super short 1.5" ET1 intake manifold! So now just hurry up and get those suckers bolted up! If you want some jetting advise just hit me up on email and I'll give you some ideas if you let me know what you got done to your engine and exhaust systems.

Nice. Very happy to see you had the chance to see this. Please let the guys over at PP know about this too as it's a great alternative to very pricey custom made mannys.

I fully intend to fill your inbox with tons of e-mails asking about the best specs for this build, as well as the build to come. ...and not just jetting advice, but cam, valving, bottom end build, exhaust, blah blah blah. Hopefully in the next few days I'll be carrying the motor into my basement, bolting it up to my engine stand, and getting going on assembling everything bit by faaking expensive bit. I'm shooting for the end of spring/early summer to get it in the car and running.

Edit: feel like taking a flight across the pond to help with jetting, tuning, etc?

[carotman]

You officially suck mark... I got a deal for 2 DCOE carbd (100 bucks) so now this thread is always popping here and there telling me to buy them...

[markmdz89hatch]

WHAT! 100 beans for a pair of DCOE's? ...and why aren't you jumping on those like yesterday if not sooner? Are they 40's or 45's? ...or the beloved 48 ida's? ::drool::

Shit, if you don't jump on those and they're still available when I come up there, I'm all over those like stink on poo.

[2oodoor]

WHAT! 100 beans for a pair of DCOE's? ...and why aren't you jumping on those like yesterday if not sooner? Are they 40's or 45's? ...or the beloved 48 ida's? ::drool::

Shit, if you don't jump on those and they're still available when I come up there, I'm all over those like stink on poo.

um you have some already? dcoe whores geesh
LOL

[markmdz89hatch]

i don't have 48 ida's. ...that would be one monstrous setup right there. ..then I would end up just choking it down with 38mm main venturis, but it would still look schweetness. Who knows, if i were to get 'em, then you decided to take a road-trip, maybe that could be partial payment for your carb services. hehe.

[2ndGenGuy]

Aren't the IDAs downdraft? Like the ones they run on aircooled VWs?

Hey Carotman, I'll give you $200 for those DCOEs. ;) Double your money!!!!! :deal:

[markmdz89hatch]

DAMMIT Jeff. See what you did.

Yes, you're right. I goofed on my Weberizms. The IDA are downdraft (vertical) carbs. Let me then correct myself. ....48 DCO.

edit: Sunnovabich! Look at this shit! http://www.webercarbsdirect.com/Weber_Carburetors_s/2.htm the CHROME 45's are the same friggin price as the normal ones. Who wouldn't go CHROME!?

[2oodoor]

if they were the right price I would do IDA's , stranger fabrications have been acomplished.. may not be as effecient at wot for flow but still....getting into a stronger induction/fuel system for less than $400 is not such an unreasonable goal.

[2ndGenGuy]

Roodoo, you know that would be badass with a couple of those bad boys' velocity stacks stiking out the hood!!!

Who is Jeff, is that Carotman?

What's the difference between the DCO and DCOE other than the size? The E must have some significance in this case, it's not electric choke like the DGEV, etc is it?

[markmdz89hatch]

Roodoo, you know that would be badass with a couple of those bad boys' velocity stacks stiking out the hood!!!

Who is Jeff, is that Carotman?

What's the difference between the DCO and DCOE other than the size? The E must have some significance in this case, it's not electric choke like the DGEV, etc is it?

re: carot=jeff? yep (at least I'm pretty sure)

dcoe v. dco? dunno honestly, but based on the below information, i'm guessing they're not die cast? i don't really know if I believe this because it's too similar to the 40 and 45. The DCO is available in 48 and 55.

Snagged from another site:
DC - doppio (double) corpo (body) i.e. twin choke
O - orizzontale (horizontal) i.e. sidedraft
E - indicates carb is die-cast


source: http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/car-talk/347430-what-does-dcoe-mean.html

[rjudgey]

DCO 48 and up are bigger size they won't fit on the manny so don't buy!

The chokes you need are quite big on our engines anything slightly tuned needs at least 40mm i had mine custom turned so that i got just under 42mm to be honest didn't make much difference but going under 40mm certainly does!! And no worries with the advice be glad to help if you can find cheap enough tickets and have a nice clean room to stay in I'd consider it! lol! So howmuch are these mannys anways as mentioned wouldn't mind a short one and also could do with on for my B20A as well :O) I have adapters that can extend your manifold and convert to Jenvey taper bore ITB's now that could be interesting!

What kind of power are you shooting for and how long do you hope your engine will last for?? You can get 200bhp with reliability of upto 30k miles hard miles (not race miles) Hard road driving. Advice do up the con rod bolts to 30lbft and use loctite on them they have a habbit off vibrating loose after 30k!! But you'll probably be using ARP with aftermarket rods so don't worry too much about what i just said lol! Oh if your looking to have a set of high compression pistons made would be willing to do a group buy with you and I'll get em to do them to my specs with blank tops and 3 valve relief pockets only.

[markmdz89hatch]

right, so as for internals, on this build, I'm planning only on working the top end, with the exception of the ARP bolts on the rods. Unless I can get a set of B rods with 20mm bushings to fit our wrist-pins on the cheap, then I'll be sticking with stock rods (for now).

I just want to get the thing going and on the street again, so not going to go too crazy right now. I'm hoping (realistically) to get 150 whp out of the p&p head milled .20 w/ stock valves, bisimoto dual intake springs, stock exhaust springs, cam, timing tweak, DCOE's (I'm going to have to get the mains cut out to 42, as the existing ones are only 36's), MSD 6AL w/ blaster coil, Nology hotwires, and haven't decided on the plugs just yet. Even with all that, 150 on a good tune might still be a stretch, but it's something to shoot for.

I'm going to put a 6500 pill in the 6al because I have no intention of spinning this thing too high right out of the gate.

I'm still trying to find a set of B18C5 oem replacement pistons for a .60 overbore (82.5mm) and thinking I MIGHT be able to get away with those with oversized rings, but that's more of a pipe-dream at the moment as it's got 4 valve reliefs cut in a stupidly high dome (they're 12:1 comp), and who really knows if the valves will seat perfectly in the factory reliefs. idk.

I'm not opposed to a small g/b for high comp pistons with a 3 valve relief pocket, or blank top. I think (for ease of using aftermarket rods) they should be cut for 21mm wrist pins so we can use any aftermarket B18 rods without the need to press in 20mm bushings. The only other issue you run into is a finding a machine shop that really knows what they're doing that is willing to cut the valve pockets and rebalance the pistons and weight match all 4.

On another side note, the local machine shop to me is capable of a 5-angle (i just found that out last week or so), so I'm psyched to get the funds together to get the real race head cut.

[carotman]

The ones I can get for 100 are 40mm There's a 45mm kit for 150 bucks but the guy says it needs 2 gaskets. There's another cleaner 40mm kit but this one goes for 300.

So, you guys are saying I should jump on those? 40 or 45mm?


P.S. My real name is Jean-François. Most people call me Jeff or Jean. :D

[markmdz89hatch]

jump on the 45's for 150 if they're a matched set. gaskets, jets, venturis, etc can be replaced without too much pain on the pocket. Just for reference, 45's go for $400 EACH brand new. ...so yeah, a pair of 45's for 150 is a damn steal. As said, I'll take 'em when i get up there if they're still around.

40's are too small imo.

[markmdz89hatch]

rjudgey --> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Weber-DCOE-IDF-45mm-1-75-Throttle-Bodies-Replacements_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742Q2em15 3Q2el1262QQcategoryZ33553QQihZ006QQitemZ1603196334 87QQtcZphoto

[Accurate Injection]

What is the Manifold Number from Rowland? M031 by chance?

Buttbump

[markmdz89hatch]

don't remember. I'll post it up tonight after I get home and have a chance to check it out.

edit: pretty sure it's the M063

[Accurate Injection]

Thanks Mark!

Let me know if I can help you Guys!

Thanks!
Buttbump

[markmdz89hatch]

No problem Kevin. Thanks for reaching out, and I'll be in touch with you soon.

[2ndGenGuy]

Those DCOEs are a STEAL at that price!!!! Even those 40s. You could clean them up and double your money easy. Man if I came across some 45s for that price, I would buy one of those manifolds too right now.

[Vanilla Sky]

I sold a set of crappy ones on ebay with a bunch of jets for $250. They needed to be rebuilt badly, but had all of the other parts from 3 other carbs and a TON of jets. If you can get a pretty alright set for $100, jump on them.

[Fixedit]

Just got my hands on one of these. What's the deal with people claiming they're crap? I plan on making it work for me

[Oldblueaccord]

Its a manifold I cant see it being that bad. Maybe the casting is just poor quality or something.