coilovers

[lxaccord]

does anyone have stock struts with coilovers....

[Tdurr]

coil sleeves is the proper term, and yes many of us have them. I have Ground control sleeves on the rear of my car, and ebay ones on the front. They ride fine, the ebay ones are much softer(helps with reducing understeer), but they work fine. I think any honda coil sleeve will fit.

[lxaccord]

sorry for useing the incorrect "term" but thanks

[Tommy AC89 Thailand]

My struts with coilovers... R-racing
It's jumping like you are ride a horse...555
http://rcw.ms/forums/picture.php?albumid=666&pictureid=4134

[codyJDM]

You're gonna blow the hell out of the struts, and then 1 month later hate your car and the way it rides and handles.

If all you care about is being low and you never drive it I could see this working lol.

[Tdurr]

My struts with coilovers... R-racing
It's jumping like you are ride a horse...555


I WANT!!! so bad! lol

[markmdz89hatch]

You're gonna blow the hell out of the struts, and then 1 month later hate your car and the way it rides and handles.

If all you care about is being low and you never drive it I could see this working lol.

hell faacking yeah!

lxaccord --> Listen to Cody here. It's not really a matter of 'will it fit', but more-so, will it work right. And the answer to that is absolutely not. Cody knows what he's talking about here, he's been through the coilover (sleeve type) setup and has been lower than low with it, and knows first hand what a shitty shock and decent shock feels like.

[-$MOKIN-]

Ha . . Just what i went threw. . Nothin worse than when it goes bad . Expecially if you have alot of concrete highways around instead of black top.
I guess the solution is in the camber for undertoe and the right tire to ground balance along with a good set of struts. Then i dont see any probs with coil overs, With coilovers and some 2 gen prelude upper control arms you should be able to acheave this .



Tommy do you get a lot of ratteling from those hanging breaklines? And what do you mean by jumping like a horse? Does it bounce alot?

[codyJDM]

hell faacking yeah!

lxaccord --> Listen to Cody here. It's not really a matter of 'will it fit', but more-so, will it work right. And the answer to that is absolutely not. Cody knows what he's talking about here, he's been through the coilover (sleeve type) setup and has been lower than low with it, and knows first hand what a shitty shock and decent shock feels like.

This is true. I've tried stock struts with springs, kyb's with springs, tokico's with springs, and tokico's with coilovers and modded top hats. The only halfway decent riding/performing setup I had was the Ground Control coilovers and Tokico HP struts(and even that wasn't that great). I went through a lot of $$ trying to figure out what works right for us, and there isn't very much if you honestly care about your cars performance and comfort.

As soon as you throw on some cheap ass sleeves on your probably already annihilated struts, you will be counting down the seconds until you can afford a real setup. It is nerve wracking, trust me.

Coming from one of the lowest guys that's been on this board, trust what me and the others say about this.

[Civic Accord Honda]

if your shocks are already blown go for it cant make the ride that much worse :lol: but if you want a good handling car that's comfortable and fun to drive then do what cody said

[ghettogeddy]

my tokicos and dropzones are still holding up its a bumpy ride but thats what you get with stiff springs lol

[markmdz89hatch]

my tokicos and dropzones are still holding up its a bumpy ride but thats what you get with stiff springs lol

not at all. If you have shocks to handle those stiff springs, your ass will hurt. There's not really any bounce, just a harsh, jarring ride because not only are you running stiffer springs, but your shocks can actually control the hard/fast rebound of those stiff springs. A stiff spring setup with properly valved shocks is not the most pleasant ride for DD, or for the faint of heart, but if you like the feel of a truly stiff AND 'matched' setup, the stiffer the spring the better. But your back, and every rattle in the car will HATE you.

[codyJDM]

not at all. If you have shocks to handle those stiff springs, your ass will hurt. There's not really any bounce, just a harsh, jarring ride because not only are you running stiffer springs, but your shocks can actually control the hard/fast rebound of those stiff springs. A stiff spring setup with properly valved shocks is not the most pleasant ride for DD, or for the faint of heart, but if you like the feel of a truly stiff AND 'matched' setup, the stiffer the spring the better. But your back, and every rattle in the car will HATE you.

Seconded.

[King Peetis]

Ive read just about every post on coilovers and proper set up with relation to struts and spring rates etc. Mark, I read your rather technical overture on this subject and it all makes perfect, analytical sense.

Cody you said "The only halfway decent riding/performing setup I had was the Ground Control coilovers and Tokico HP struts(and even that wasn't that great)".

Well fellas I have to admit thats the way Im rolling, GC's and Toki's. I got lost in the analysis and had to pick something. I gave consideration to Bilsteins but I didn’t want to fork over the $600.00 after revalving.

I echo Cody remarks about the GC's and Toki's, its not bad but its not the best either. I have noticed the vertical travel isn’t so bad (not really bouncy), actually pretty decent but the lateral movement is almost out of control.

Are revalved Bilsteins the only choice I have for GC’s and are Toki’s the only next best choice? Im down about 2.25 with a full camber kit

[markmdz89hatch]

haha Pete, I'm with you that you can easily get buried in the suspension blah blah blah, but as you're seeing, it's worth digging through it to find that right setup for you.

Honestly, I'm really on the fence, and wish that someone would make some springs that were lower, and stiffer, but not so much that you have to go balls-to-the-walls to get shocks to match them.

...so to answer your question, you MIGHT be able to get G/C involved and get out of this with a damn good setup on the cheap. Working with what you already have (and I'm sorry guys, that I haven't suggested this in the past 4+ years, but it just popped into my head again just now), you can keep those Toki's (as long as they're not already blown out) and the G/C sleeves. The G/C's used to be 350/250, which is pretty stiff up front. Take the springs from the back and move them up front, as those are 250 lb. Now call G/C and see if you can get a pair of 150-175 lb springs for the rear. If you do that, you should still be (barely) within the rebound valving limits of the Toki's and it'll be soft enough to drive on daily without giving you a broken ass.

Hmm... I might just call G/C for you tomorrow to see if I can get anywhere with them. I know they used to offer different spring rates for special order, and if I'm not mistaken, they were actually pretty reasonable for pricing too.

[King Peetis]

If the springs are stiffer than the struts then they shouldn't blow, right? I mean they arent really doing anything, they're just along for the ride. But if the struts were tighter then the springs and taking all of the load then I thinking Yeah, they would blow. If thats not it hip me to the right answer please. Also arent the springs (front/rear) different lengths? Will rear to front just require more adjustment to maintain height. Will that be safe? By the way I just installed a complete new under carriage (bushings, balljoints, tie rods, control arms, struts, springs you get the picture...

[markmdz89hatch]

awesome deal on the replacing of all the moving parts underneath.

So you have the idea with the springs/shocks, but you're backwards. If one should be 'stronger' than another, it's the shock stronger than the spring. The most ideal is to have a complimenting set of shock / spring.

The idea is:

When you hit a bump, and shock/spring assembly compresses, at that point, the shock is pretty much just there for that ride, and it's the spring that offers the resistance to compressing, which dictates is 'spring rate' (ie. in this case, the amount of force needed to compress the spring).

Now that you've compressed the assembly, the spring has memory and always wants to go back to it's resting height. Without any resistance to 'springing back' to it's normal position, the stored energy of that compressed spring will release at once (which is what it wants to do). That's where the strut/shock/damper (whatever you want to call it) comes into play. The primary responsibility of the shock is to control that 'spring back' or rapid decompression of that spring, by way of providing resistance. You'll want the shock to be strong enough so it doesn't just get yanked back to normal height by the spring, yet not sooo strong that the spring has to put up a hell of a fight to decompress. However, don't worry about a too-strong shock, as that's not always a bad thing, and quite honestly, I highly doubt 90+% of us will ever run into this situation.

As for springs swap from front to back, it's been so long that I'm not 100% sure of the height difference, so I can't answer that with any confidence. The diameters however, I'm pretty sure are the same. Even if the spring length is greater on the back compared to the front, as long as you can thread down your spring perches enough to get the ride height you want, then yes, that's perfectly safe and fine to ride on. If you have the spring perches threaded all the way down the threaded cylinder, and you're still not at the height you want, you can cut a coil or two off the spring, or just go the route of getting all 4 new springs from G/C with more suitable spring rates.

[King Peetis]

Alright, I now have the complete picture. Thanks for the explanation. You see even after researching all thats been posted its still easy to be confused. Thanks again Mark for the clarification, I know what I need to do now.

['A20A3']

Koni's FTW!

and we can run 88-91 civic front shocks. just change the top hat to the accord top hat, as the civic one only has 2 bolt holes, ours are the triangular 3 bolt. Legend master did it. and it lowers the front a little as well.

KYB AGX. check it out.

[Tdurr]

^^^Forgot about that....