70mm TB on edelbrock intake/ stock TB

[mykwikcoupe]

not sure where to put this so Im just going to slap it here and someone can move it if needed. i found out today on my6 b16 edelbrock intake that the factory TB pull/action from the throttle cable puts serious binding on the cable itself. i figure the best thing to do is bend the cable holder so its less of an angle and straighter. Im wondering though, when I bought the intake i also bought a 70mm TB for it. If I was to run a 70mm TB on a NA b20a would it be way overkill? ulitmatly the pistons pull in whatever they need this would just alow more air right. If I maxed out the stock injectors or even the next size up on a stock bottom end, is it really a bad idea to run this large of a TB?

[Tdurr]

what?

[mykwikcoupe]

2 things, #1 the stock TB doesnt want to work on the edelbrock intake. the holes for mounting arent perfect and the linkages arent perfect. You have to modify it just a bit if you care.

Because of this is a 70mm tb on a stock B20a way overkill or something that can be tuned out? Obviously if I wa to jam the gas issues may result? Im wondering since Im not sure how to figure air volume comparision to fuel in the CC and valve sizing. whats the max fuel, air flow that can flow through the stockl b20a head? stock cams?

[Strugglebucket]

Is it 70mm at the inlet and the butterfly or does it taper down? I don't think it would hurt performance but you might have a really hard time getting it to idle.

[Rendon LX-i]

I wouldnt think so man...Alot of guys just do TB swaps and just run it with stock injectors...i mean youll get more air=power on top end...i think it wouldnt do much as from a stop and go but sound nice...I would just slap it on for now if it works.....

[jpetrovic]

I agree with Rendon lxi also u will get a better throttle response due to a bigger volume of air getting in there faster.

[Rendon LX-i]

X2 your goint to gain not lose anything...i had buddys with stock gsrs slaping BBK TBs and running em like so....SOUNDS nice and top end feels alot better...Just put it on mike and youll be already i would...I want to get my b16 manifold on already to have that opinion for TBS,Fuel rails....all the goodies lol

[gfrg88]

youre not gonna lose anything.. youre going to see a huge topend gain and throttle response is awesome!! Had the edelbrock and 68mm tb on my STOCK b18a1 before i turboed it, and i loved the sound and performance of it!!

[mykwikcoupe]

sweet sounds good then, I was just worried about idle and Im not really caring about performance right now I just dnt have many other options with this intake mani. Its a beast

[2oodoor]

idle air comes from the Idle air cont valve , TB size is irrelevent for that anyway, IAC gets its air from inside the TB at throttle closed.

[mykwikcoupe]

idle air comes from the Idle air cont valve , TB size is irrelevent for that anyway, IAC gets its air from inside the TB at throttle closed.

not on this one, my 70mm has no vac dumps at all. itll have to come from one of the intake vac ports behind the TB same with the map sensor

[Joay]

I don't know much about fluid dynamics, but I do know that if you allow a given amount of air (since, like you said, the engine is only going to pull as much as it would with a stock throttle) more space to get where it's going, its velocity will be lessened. There will be less of a pressure drop in the intake circuit when you open the throttle, which probably won't do much, but in theory your engine will have to do more work to pull in air because the air it's getting isn't making as much vacuum behind it to help incoming charge along.

Like I said I'm no physicist, but I think that's correct. Probably a negligible difference either way.

[Edit]: This will depend on the characteristics of the engine, actually. There is a point (intake diameter) at which the air will move at velocity X such that it requires minimum effort by the engine. The stock throttle body is probably below this point, with a smaller diameter and higher velocity than is necessary, to the detriment of power. 70mm is probably on the other side of that peak.

[Hauntd ca3]

put simply, unless you are getting a large pressure drop across the stock tb at max power, you wont gain much in the top end at all.
i'd be running it on the dyno and doing a restriction test first and go from there.
if you are only getting a drop of 1 or 2 inchs hg, there is no point cause you aint going to gain more than a few hp with the big tb.
and that'll be right at the very top end where you dont really spend much time and wouldnt notice it anyway.

[mykwikcoupe]

Thats ok like I said in the top post, this isnt for performance more out of neccessity. i wanted to make sure I wouldnt run into major issues running too large of a TB. I can live with less power, throttle responce and such I just cant get a good design on the stock TB with this intake. or at least the TB I have

[LX-incredible]

not on this one, my 70mm has no vac dumps at all. itll have to come from one of the intake vac ports behind the TB same with the map sensor

TB should have a passageway that meets up with one on the manifold for the IACV... Air is pulled in before the plate.

[mykwikcoupe]

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=EDL%2D3811&N=700+4294859865+400065+115&autoview=sku
this is the exact model as mine. as you can see I have no such fitting. i do see other models they sell have the proper fittings. Any thoughts ideas or suggestions. Oh and if lxi-incredible sees this thats the plug I need for the TPS. Sprry man, how about an adapter instead.

[LX-incredible]

What the hell is that off of? I don't know if I could find the other end...

Your IACV will not fuction without the air passage through the TB.

[stat1K]

it doesn't have an iacv passage because it's not even made for a honda... it's just a universal TB...

angus, that tps is a newer GM tps... the people who make them for GM make them for edelbrock, they're not even set at the right voltage for honda lol... .8-1v at idle...

[mykwikcoupe]

doh guess ill sell this one and buy the proper one. i wasnt sure if the TPS could be swapped out to a honda one. iknow the physical size is smaller. Oh well another setback. Itll go to ebay the honda ones are cheaper anyways

[stat1K]

yeah there are honda 70mm's for 150 that i have seen on different sites... skunk2s are expensive but bdl can be had for cheaper, and there are some others that are fairly cheap as well.

[mykwikcoupe]

when i look omn ebay the model I have is listed as used for honda, why wouldnt the idle air circiut work without the TB? the water is the only thing that runs from the TB to the IACV right? why couldnt I just bypass the TB and go striaght to the IACV?

[mykwikcoupe]

it doesn't have an iacv passage because it's not even made for a honda... it's just a universal TB...

angus, that tps is a newer GM tps... the people who make them for GM make them for edelbrock, they're not even set at the right voltage for honda lol... .8-1v at idle...

the instructions manual says to get a higher or lower voltage you turn the sensor CCW and if the adjustment has maxed out simply elongate the holes to get the proper voltage required. It also stated total voltage range is .2-1.5v

[LX-incredible]

when i look omn ebay the model I have is listed as used for honda, why wouldnt the idle air circiut work without the TB? the water is the only thing that runs from the TB to the IACV right? why couldnt I just bypass the TB and go striaght to the IACV?

That hole to the left on the TB flange of the manifold is for the IACV... It meets up with the TB, which has a passage that allows air to be taken in BEFORE the throttle plate. Block it off and no air can go through the IACV.

TPS voltage should be 0.47v closed, 4.53v WOT. If that can't be achieved you're going to have issues...

I have a spare honda TPS I can send if what you get doesn't come with it.

[mykwikcoupe]

I think ill be ok for now. Im just going to modify my stocker to fit the manifold and bend the bracket a little more to make up for the linkage adjustment. So itll be the stocker for now till funds allow a new one and i sell the one ive got

[LX-incredible]

The stocker is a 88-89 TB with the round connector, correct?

I had to buy 3 or 4 b series throttle cables and brackets before I found a combination to work... S2 manifold only works with the TypeR bracket. The 94-01 Integra cable is the perfect length with the S2 TB and IM, but you need to grind the pedal end to fit.

You can sort of see the TypeR bracket in these:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4847/0726071137zp8.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5051/0726071135cq2.jpg

Anyway, I have a bunch of brand new B18 throttle cables and brackets. Get some measurements, I might have a combo that will work...

I've got the center console and seat out of the auto to find out how I want to route your harness. Should be done Monday.

[stat1K]

when i look omn ebay the model I have is listed as used for honda, why wouldnt the idle air circiut work without the TB? the water is the only thing that runs from the TB to the IACV right? why couldnt I just bypass the TB and go striaght to the IACV?

the iacv uses air not water... that's just unnecessary intake preheater bullshit... or deicing stuff...

it's listed for honda because it's for drag purposes not normal driving...

i can't remember the name of the company but there is one that makes cheap honda tb's that are 68-72mm

[Joay]

The stocker is a 88-89 TB with the round connector, correct?

I had to buy 3 or 4 b series throttle cables and brackets before I found a combination to work... S2 manifold only works with the TypeR bracket. The 94-01 Integra cable is the perfect length with the S2 TB and IM, but you need to grind the pedal end to fit.

You can sort of see the TypeR bracket in these:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4847/0726071137zp8.jpg

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5051/0726071135cq2.jpg

Anyway, I have a bunch of brand new B18 throttle cables and brackets. Get some measurements, I might have a combo that will work...

I've got the center console and seat out of the auto to find out how I want to route your harness. Should be done Monday.
That a B18 manifold?

[LX-incredible]

Yes, B18A, B18B, B20B, and B20Z.

[MessyHonda]

Yes, B18A, B18B, B20B, and B20Z.



you got the b18 s2 manifold? you got close pics of the back of it...also what tp did you use?

[LX-incredible]

Yes. S2 68mm TB.

Back or underside? Nothing on the underside, IACV, brake booster, and single vacuum port on the back.

[gfrg88]

sweet sounds good then, I was just worried about idle and Im not really caring about performance right now I just dnt have many other options with this intake mani. Its a beast

Idle was pretty damn good when I had it. It actually would rev up and down, but that was a big vacuum leak that I had, fixed and was back to normal.

[mykwikcoupe]

did I buy this stuff from you? Sorry I just cannot remember. If I efectivly block off the idle circiut how would I control idle speed and such.