hot car won't start

[snoopyloopy]

yes, the famous fuel relay problem. '88 lx-i. when the inside of the car is hot, it just won't start until i cool it a bit. discovered this last year, but i can't find the thread i made last year. i was gonna fix it, but then summer ended and i forgot about it. so anyway, try again this year. what kind of monkey hands do i need and how much is the stupid thing?

[nswst8]

One bolt holding it in and just a standard wire harness connection. Easy day. I usually use a long 1/4 inch extension to get at it.

[2drSE-i]

serious monkey hands. I hated it, cudnt even get the bolt off. Just unplugged the connector and plugged a new one in. If you get it out, just resolder the bad joints. Nearly free fix.

[Tdurr]

serious monkey hands. I hated it, cudnt even get the bolt off. Just unplugged the connector and plugged a new one in. If you get it out, just resolder the bad joints. Nearly free fix.

thats wut i did. I have 2 main relays :kekeke:

[snoopyloopy]

serious monkey hands. I hated it, cudnt even get the bolt off. Just unplugged the connector and plugged a new one in. If you get it out, just resolder the bad joints. Nearly free fix.

so where is it exactly in the scheme of things under there? and what is it that usually goes wrong? damn thing cost me two appointments today, i want to fix it asap...

[Demon1024]

check the tw sensor too.
dam near same symptoms.

its on the driverside almost right next to the fuse box. just higher up. not really that hard to get to if you have the right extensions and loosen the fuse box up (or take it off)

[snoopyloopy]

what's the tw sensor?

[Demon1024]

on the housing for the thermostat theirs 2 sensors on top.
i believe it's the one on the right.
tells the ecu what fuel mix to run at depending on temp.
If the car is hot and the sensor tells the ecu it's cold then it wont start cause the mix is off.

[1987AccordLx-i]

on the housing for the thermostat theirs 2 sensors on top.
i believe it's the one on the right.
tells the ecu what fuel mix to run at depending on temp.
If the car is hot and the sensor tells the ecu it's cold then it wont start cause the mix is off.

i heard that one is the ECT (Engine Coolant Temp) sensor.. am i right?

[snoopyloopy]

anyway, so now car is also not starting when it's cold out, so this has gone much too far. can someone show me on this diagram which part i'm supposed to be looking for so i can commence repairs asap. i'm guessing it's #5, but i just want to be sure.
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/catimgs/13se001_b1301.png


on the housing for the thermostat theirs 2 sensors on top.
i believe it's the one on the right.
tells the ecu what fuel mix to run at depending on temp.
If the car is hot and the sensor tells the ecu it's cold then it wont start cause the mix is off.

but what do you mean here by "car is hot?" the car was physically hot at the time, but the engine was cold. so i'm leaning more toward the relay, but if that doesn't work this might be next on list.

[Bluntman]

Yes #5. Here is what it looks like. http://i69.servimg.com/u/f69/12/59/29/63/main10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=710&u=12592963)
It helps to drop your coin holder to get a peek at it.

[Bluntman]

This was my experience along with other peoples. Looking back ( now that it is done), it wasn't so bad. http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71247

[Dr_Snooz]

It helps to drop the coin box so you can see it (sort of) like Bluntman said. It also helps to have a 10" socket extension with a swivel attachment. I left mine hanging.

Removing the fuse block would help, but there are at least 7.2 billion connectors attached to it and your likely to miss one putting it back in like this guy (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71111&highlight=mt+start) did.

I'd also avoid removing the fuse box because it seriously stresses out the 20 years old wiring down there. You're kinda asking for wiring problems later.

[w261w261]

One of the problems I had (see post #1 here: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61773&highlight=main+relay ) was getting a ratchet to click in the confined space of the change drawer opening. Maybe a higher-quality ratchet with more teeth would have worked. What I did after the fact was buy a Husky (Home Depot) ratchet drive with a rotating handle, so theoretically I could have "unscrewed" the mounting bolt. As I posted, I got the bolt out by going up and over the fuse box/frame post with a couple of 1/4 long extensions with a universal joint in the middle, which was ok once I figured it out. But next time I'd try the rotating ratchet tool, which has sat unused since that summer day (but I'm very comforted knowing it's there waiting, like any tool junkie). My only question would be how much torque the rotating handle can provide to the socket to break the bolt loose.

The Husky tool costs $29.95 if I remember correctly. The new relay was $65.00.

For my money, I'd replace both the main relay and the tw (coolant) sensor. Both will slowly and intermittently fail and eventually leave the car unable to start. The sensor usually, but not always throws a 6-flash code on the ecu. In my case, I delayed taking care of it for awhile, and when I finally ordered it from the dealer, it was touch and go getting the car to start those two days before the part came in. On the morning it arrived, I had to make a couple of stops and I was afraid to turn it off. This is not a way to run things.

[jasonrebellion]

when my tw sensor was bad....it would still start hot it'd just take a few tries...this sounds more like the main relay to me......the guy I bought mine from had a main relay problem and I didn't realize it til last month..but he's got a hot wire running straight to my fuel pump for when the key is turned on..... not exactly the safest fix but it'll get you through to the weekend.

[w261w261]

Snoopy, if the car isn't starting, try giving the main relay a few raps with the butt end of a screwdriver or something. It may get you home if that's the problem. What happens is the relay develops micro-cracks in the solder, which if you whack it a few times might make enough of a (probably temporary) connection again to work.

[snoopyloopy]

yea, managed to get it started and to the house, but i'm afraid to drive anywhere now lol. and if #5 is my golden ticket, that of course is the one part in that diagram that is NOT listed as available at majestichonda.com. i found some promising leads over at rockauto (http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1166947&m=wc&l=en&html=true), but i'm not sure sure. however, the prices are mildly attractive compared to honda dealer, which might be enough to last me at least another decade.

[Bluntman]

yea, managed to get it started and to the house, but i'm afraid to drive anywhere now lol. and if #5 is my golden ticket, that of course is the one part in that diagram that is NOT listed as available at majestichonda.com. i found some promising leads over at rockauto (http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1166947&m=wc&l=en&html=true), but i'm not sure sure. however, the prices are mildly attractive compared to honda dealer, which might be enough to last me at least another decade.

I am a NAPA person. But I found out that Autozone had the factory Mitsuba relays ( in a Duralast box ) so I got it there.

[w261w261]

yea, managed to get it started and to the house, but i'm afraid to drive anywhere now lol. and if #5 is my golden ticket, that of course is the one part in that diagram that is NOT listed as available at majestichonda.com. i found some promising leads over at rockauto (http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1166947&m=wc&l=en&html=true), but i'm not sure sure. however, the prices are mildly attractive compared to honda dealer, which might be enough to last me at least another decade.

I think it's #9, listed as main relay, $49.11 after discount.

[Bluntman]

I think it's #9, listed as main relay, $49.11 after discount.

Yes you are right. #9 not 5. I was looking at it wrong.

RELAY ASSY., MAIN (RZ-0028) (MITSUBA). And if you need it now. The factory Mitsuba RZ-0028, is available at Autozone Part #19235. And the only reason I would ever say Autozone is because it is the factory original.

[snoopyloopy]

hot car now starts, went over to autozone and took advantage of their sale on a factory part. i figure it should be good for another 20 years at least.

[Bluntman]

hot car now starts, went over to autozone and took advantage of their sale on a factory part. i figure it should be good for another 20 years at least.

Good job! Glad you got it fixed.:cheers:

[Dr_Snooz]

One of the problems I had (see post #1 here: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61773&highlight=main+relay ) was getting a ratchet to click in the confined space of the change drawer opening.

I went up under the dash and that seemed to work quite well. Just a 10" socket and a swivel if memory serves.