My 1985 Accord: a bit of a dilemma...

[John Sweeney]

Hello all!

I hope that this is the right part of the forum to put this. Perhaps you could help me with a mini dilemma?

It's not that I'm wanting to sell my Accord just yet - I love it. It's just that I've seen the most wonderful W123 Mercedes 280E for sale near here. I don't really want to sell my little Horrace the Honda (my friends' name for it, not mine!), but I've always had a soft spot for old Mercedes.

As things stand, the chances are that I'll see sense and keep Horrace, but I'm getting worryingly misty-eyed over this old Mercedes. Perhaps someone could persuade me that this is a bad idea?

To get to the crux of the issue though, would anyone (potentially) be interested in buying my 1985 Accord 1.8 EX Auto? Do you guys think it would it be a good idea to put it on Ebay?

A brief description:

1985 Honda Accord 1.8 EX Automatic.


39,000 miles.
Excellent service history.
Four recent tyres.
Oil and filter changed every 3000 miles.
New rear exhaust. Front and middle sections both fine.
Recent air filter, spark plugs, ignition leads, rotor arm and distributor cap.
Recent thermostat and coolant flushed/replaced.
Automatic transmission fluid changed.
Recent tune-up.
Waxoiled underneath just prior to winter.
3rd owner - the second owned it for a few months before moving to France. The first owner, a local chap, owned it for most of it's life.
Electric windows (4) - all working fine.
Electric sunroof - working fine.
Central locking - working fine.
Power assisted steering - very light. No noises or rough patches.
Anti-lock brakes - working fine.
Air conditioning - regassed last month. Very cold indeed!
Cruise Control - working fine. With original info card to hang from rear-view mirror.
Electric aeriel - working fine.
Original radio/cassette player - heads extensively cleaned. Now working fine. With instruction manual.
Headlight wash/wipe - working fine.

The car is cleaned and waxed very regularly. It starts and drives like a new car, and I'm always very sympathetic as a driver to be gentle on the engine when it is cold. Bodywork is first rate - apart from a little surface rust behind the petrol flap, which hasn't developed while I've owned the car but which could do with treatment at some point, there is no rust whatsoever. Underneath is very clean also. The transmission is very smooth indeed, and all changes occur as they should.

The only thing to be aware of is that the top engine oil seal dribbles oil very slightly at the front. It's not enough to cause a drip, nor does it affect the oil level, but it is something to note.

Pictures of Horrace can be found here, at posts 9 and 10: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66485

Thanks,
John.

[A18A]

you will never experience so much regret in your life if you sell it for the mercedes (ok maybe not, but you get my point) That car just looks too good to let go!

[2ndGenGuy]

Well, if you're going to sell it, eBay would be the place. It will probably get the most exposure, and probably the most likely place to get people bidding the car up to a more reasonable value for the condition of the car. I wish I could buy it from you. :-o

[Civic Accord Honda]

you will never experience so much regret in your life if you sell it for the mercedes (ok maybe not, but you get my point) That car just looks too good to let go!

[John Sweeney]

I know I'll miss it, and I'm secretly hoping that this car I'm going to see is a wreck! Thanks for the advice.

John.

[2ndGenGuy]

Well good luck. If you do get it sold, at least let the new owner know about 3geez so he can keep us updated on the car!! :D

[Dr_Snooz]

Ah yes, another member hears the siren song of German cars. If you are getting all moony eyed about the Benz, then buy it. BUT sit tight on the Honda for at least a year before deciding what to do with it. I too replaced a Honda with a German car and ended up scrounging another Honda out of someone's shed while the German car got limped to the shop every other month. German cars are a whole different animal and you'll need something reliable while you figure out how different it is. I ended up keeping both cars and don't regret it. Your Honda is nice enough that I'd encourage you to keep it too, but that's up to you.

Are there any pics of this Benz anywhere?

[John Sweeney]

I would dearly love to keep both cars but, as a full-time student, I simply cannot afford two at the same time. I can't even afford to store the Accord at my friend's farm, as I need the money from one car to pay for the other!

It's really sad, as I know I'm going to miss the Accord. Like I say, this Mercedes might be a wreck, but I've been looking for this exact car (engine, spec, colour) for years, and I must at least give it the once over.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=260426535234&Category=31360&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1

I've got a feeling that the owner has an unreasonable expectation of how much it's worth, so it probably won't sell this first time round on Ebay.

John.

[2ndGenGuy]

Damn dude, you really know how to find the mint cars, don't you? :D

[accord83]

John, I think your right about the owners expectations, his 'immaculate inside and out' obviously doesn't include the drivers seat, unless the stains are from an immaculate conception!!!

[2ndGenGuy]

John, I think your right about the owners expectations, his 'immaculate inside and out' obviously doesn't include the drivers seat, unless the stains are from an immaculate conception!!!

Eeeeewwwwww!!! :rofl:

[John Sweeney]

Ha ha! I most sincerely hope not. It's not covered by my insurance for a start.

[Dr_Snooz]

I would dearly love to keep both cars but, as a full-time student, I simply cannot afford two at the same time. I can't even afford to store the Accord at my friend's farm, as I need the money from one car to pay for the other!

It's really sad, as I know I'm going to miss the Accord. Like I say, this Mercedes might be a wreck, but I've been looking for this exact car (engine, spec, colour) for years, and I must at least give it the once over.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=260426535234&Category=31360&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D1

I've got a feeling that the owner has an unreasonable expectation of how much it's worth, so it probably won't sell this first time round on Ebay.

John.

Wow John, that's a sweet one! You've obviously done your homework and found a real gem. I assume you've researched the costs associated with German luxury cars as well. I did too, but I still wasn't ready for how expensive mine turned out to be. If you can't afford to have two cars, you definitely can't afford to have one German car. They can hurt you bad even when they don't break, which they will because they're German. These cars, especially the Benzes, like to break in very expensive ways. Mine cost me $4k in the first two years. Other people I've talked to (okay, only two), spent $10k in the first year. And we're not talking about transmission failures and engine overhauls. This was routine stuff like new suspension bushings. If something big breaks, then you're in for REAL money. From what I've heard, Benzes like to throw steering boxes to the tune of $4k. The cars are riddled with design flaws that make random stuff break that's always expensive. Two of my door locks are broken and the part to fix them is $100 per door + the labor to put them in. My guibo is going out which makes the car shake at highway speeds and requires that I drop the exhaust system and driveline to replace. The bolts holding on the oil pump fell out into the crankcase. The thrust arm bushings like to break and cost $500 to replace. The intake manifold gaskets spring leaks and make the car run terrible and cost $700 to replace. By contrast, the only known issue with my 3g is a $50 main relay that goes out infrequently. German cars don't break like Hondas either. Hondas give you notice 200,000 miles before they leave you stranded and then don't really leave you stranded. German cars just break. They dump out all their tranny fluid on your driveway in the middle of the night. You come out the next morning to a $500 repair bill and a non-running car. The radiator will do the same. Your major services are going to be $700+ and that's if they don't find anything that needs fixing, which is unlikely. When they do find something wrong, it will always be thousands to fix.

Goodness. I've gone on much too long.

Focus on your schooling John. You have a lovely Honda that will serve you well. I rode my bike for much of college. Don't become a slave to your car until you have a degree and a real job and can afford it.

Okay, stepping off my soapbox now. Sorry.

[John Sweeney]

Thanks for such a comprehensive answer! I know you're quite right - I've owned three old Mercedes, two 190Es and a 1979 280E. The two 190Es were no end of trouble for me, and cost a small fortune to get running properly.

It's really interesting when you say Mercedes give no warning to impending doom - I couldn't agree with you more! I parked my first 190E on the drive after a perfectly normal run out with some friends. There were no odd noises and no lack of power. Except that when I came to start it the next morning, it wouldn't go. It turned out that two of the cylinders had collapsed inside. Piston rings in bits all over the place! And this was on a car with 31 stamps in the service book and only 117,000 miles. My mechanic had never seen anything like it!

The other 190E cost me a fortune in simple things. The W123 280E, on the other hand, was a proper, honest, characterful Mercedes. It was from an era when Mercedes built cars properly. That was a solid as a rock and my favourite car - I absolutely adored it! I just couldn't afford the sub 20mpg economy at a time when the petrol was fast approaching £1.00 a litre.

That's why when I saw this 200 (2.0 litre carb) auto I thought that this might be a better bet. W123 build quality and... 'reasonable' economy. I'm going to have a look at it, though if it's anything other than perfect I shall not be bidding on it. My friend Helen, who is coming along for the trip, has been briefed not to let me get carried away, so I'm fairly confident!

I guess you can work out from all of this that sometimes my heart rules my head! :uh:

John.

[Dr_Snooz]

I guess you can work out from all of this that sometimes my heart rules my head! :uh:

John.

Ha! Of course it does. I'm the same way. That's how the Germans keep selling such persnickety cars! If you've owned three Mercedes, then you know the drill. Buy the car and enjoy it. Just please promise me that you'll choose college over the car if it comes to that.

Good luck!

[w261w261]

Hi John:

I'll post the conclusion of my piece first: All things considered, DO NOT DO THIS!

I'm 65 years old, and I've been a car guy my whole life. I've had a lot of them, including American, American Muscle, Italian Exotics, German Sedans, Japanese motorcyles, German motorcycles, Italian motorcycles, and last but definitely not least, my '89 SE-i.

First, you are a student, and you cannot afford (right now) a cataclysmic repair bill. I hopped over to the eBay listing for the car in question, and what is the first line of the description?: "This is my Mercedes 200 automatic. 1985 with later gear box and engine." LATER GEAR BOX AND ENGINE? At 115,000 miles? From a German perspective: "What's the big deal? Scheist happens." From the Honda 3G perspective: "WTF?"

A mechanic that has a talk radio show, while discoursing about car nationalities, commented that "German cars are missiles from Europe sent to explode in your wallet." Most people kind of acknowledge this, but until you've been there to experience the blast, you tend to fall into what I call "Deutschland Denial," as "Boy, this baby really drives out so well, and after all it's a [Mercedes, Audi, VW], with its fine engineering, et al. Or, "People that have big problems with these cars are the ones that do not take care of them properly...do that and they will last forever with mostly routine maintenance." WRONG! You can tuck your baby in at night with a bottle of warm milk and the next day she will blow up on you, and then you're cooked. You, specifically, are particularly cooked, because it sounds like you can't afford to spend the entire purchase price of your car on a repair. And, you can't sell it then, because who is going to buy an old Mercedes that needs a megabuck fix right at the gitgo? Check and mate, mate.

Here's the seduction: they are great cars to drive, to look at, and to be seen in. Kind of like having an exotic girlfriend that has a predisposition to stray: wonderful in bed, a source of envy for your friends, and so kind and supportive of you, RIGHT BEFORE YOU FIND OUT THAT SHE'S BEEN DOING IT WITH THE POOL BOY, AND THE TRASH-MAN, AND NOW YOU HAVE AN STD.

You get my point. You'd think I would practice what I preach. But after everything I've said, let me tell you that my wife's car is a 2004 Passat, a beautiful silver, that we got about 2 1/2 years ago with 40k+ miles. I counseled to get a Honda, but Jane said they were "boring," and "you see them all over the place," and, and, well, if you're not married you will one day understand. And it is a great car to go down the road in. The '04 was the last of the Audi A4's cloaked as Passats; now the platforms are separate, so we got an A4 for less. 1.8T motor that they've been making forever, good reviews (rave reviews actually) in the car mags (They actually said about the '05 Passat, "we like the '04 much more"). It needed a couple of things right after the 50k warranty expired, drive boots up front ($500...Me: "These things wear out after 2 years and 50k miles?" From German shop: "Yup, they ain't Honda, that's for sure. Don't know why the Germans can't seem to make a rubber that holds up."

OK, cut to a few months ago. Wife has loved the car, with its heated seats, leather, peppy motor. Sunny cool day in NYC, crowded street with traffic moving at 15 mph, when the dashboard lights up red: "STOP." says the display, with a nice rendition of a thermometer headed for the moon. A quick check of the smallish temp gauge revealed the truth, it was hot, way hot. I pulled over to the curb. Time from notification to pull-over, 10 seconds. Eventual diagnosis after a 4 hour ride back to Connecticut on the back of a truck: failed head gasket, blown water pump. Which came first, the water pump with the plastic impeller that tends to randomly shatter, that practically has it's own web site of complaints from VW customers, or the head gasket that failed and took the water pump with it? At that point, who cares? What I cared about was the final bill, which included putting in a new timing belt etc ("Do the belt at 60,000 miles," said the VW dealer and my German car fixer, "because although the factory interval is 105,000 miles, the idler pulley tends to fail sooner, which of course takes out the timing, and this motor is an interference design").

The final bill was $3,180.00. And the car once again is a sweetheart to drive down the road, but my sweetheart isn't quite as in love with it any more.

So I knew what I was getting into: my '85 Audi and '94 Audi spent much time in the shop under warranty, but that was their money, not mine. I dumped them after they went out. But the Passat failure happened at 72k, and was my treat.

IMO, buy yourself a German car only when your bank account has a reserve fund. Then enjoy, or buy a new one and stay within the warranty. If you must go German, I say go with a Bimmer. I think they hold together better than the others.

[accord83]

The worse car I EVER had was a new 97 Golf, it just broke down with dodgy electrics at any opportunity, it lasted 7mnths before I traded it for a Daihatsu. The 96 tdi Passat estate I had before it was brilliant but I wanted a smaller car. My Brother in Law had a 96 tdi Passat, sold it at 180k miles to a taxi driver, it was last heard of heading for 300k on the original engine. VW now live on their reputation, if any one in my family buys a new car it's Japanese or Skoda. That said though, are your Mercs U.S.A built or German, Merc went through a bad patch up until about 3yrs ago, the late 90's to early 00's ones got a bad rep for build quality, My Bro in law had a 98 C class which did not have a matching panel gap anywhere on the car!!! But it did perform faultlessly.

[w261w261]

While I was in the shop about to retrieve the Passat, the manager was on the phone with the owner of an '86 (I think) Mercedes 190, explaining that the he needed a whole new wiring harness. Seems that for a couple of years back then, Mercedes managed to make some harnesses using a kind of insulating plastic that is now starting to break down, leading to all sorts of interesting short circuits. Basically, the car was a total loss.

[John Sweeney]

Well thanks for all the advice, guys! I went to have a look at the car, and it was in perfect condition. The seller was very open and honest, and I would have loved to have owned it. However, he removed it from sale from before the auction was over, so I guess that solved my problem.

Thanks again for all the help and advice!

John.