Picked up a P75

[mushroom_toy]

This will be perfect for obd1 swap yes? Its an auto ecu, but im not too worried about that.

[2drSE-i]

Ya p75 will be fine. Auto wont matter, but is it VTEC or NonVTEC? If its vtec youll have some funny issues, but it will still run.

[mushroom_toy]

Ya p75 will be fine. Auto wont matter, but is it VTEC or NonVTEC? If its vtec youll have some funny issues, but it will still run.


Engine was burned so not sure but I will check the p75 #s and see if I can find out.

Im pretty sure its non-vtec...thought all ls engine were...

[mushroom_toy]

Nm checked the ecu wires its non vtec no solenoid wire anyway. :)

[stat1K]

why would you ask if it was vtec, it's a p75... as in obd1 LS/GS Ecu...

[mushroom_toy]

^Thats what I thought.

[2drSE-i]

i must have it confused with something else that came in both a vtec and nonvtec vers

[mushroom_toy]

Now the only major problem to the obd1 road is the damn dizzy. :(

[Rendon LX-i]

you should of got a P06.....nonvtak out of dx civic....that well work fine....chip it how u want it

[mushroom_toy]

Gonna be a long time before im obd1...lol.

[Rendon LX-i]

lol....but now you atleast know right lol....im going to do the swap in jan and get all the shit from lxi incridible . i got everyting but the wires. sucks when funds are only coming from one person to support the family.....see pulling out dont fucking WORK haha. i love my son to death so doesnt matter....ANYWHO....i need to get this done asap. i need to chip my ecu also

[mushroom_toy]

Yeah well I cant justify spending so much on stuff that is complicated, but once the first one is made very simple.

[stat1K]

i don't get your last post???

as for the p06 statement. you can chip a p75 just the same as you can a p06... only justification for a p06 is they are cheaper (40 for me locally) p75's go for like 75-100...

[mushroom_toy]

My p75 was $15. :)

What I said was that at the beginning making an adapter plate or anything is quite complicated, but after the first one youre just making copies. Granted you still have material cost, but thats not extremely high. I cant justify spending a ton of money on something that doesnt take 5 or more hours to make.

[stat1K]

i can agree with that, but the money isn't going straight into that, it's going into the time it took to perfect the part and the knowledge to even create it you know? i think like you on most things since i'm used to my civic now, shit is cheap even if it's a good part. hell i could get a bisimoto header for near 600, that's like what some of these guys paid for their dc. my DC was 80 so i get it.

but they are pretty much 1 off pieces not a huge run or anything so i get both sides.


you could always do the janky dizzy setup like the people before this.

[Tdurr]

i can agree with that, but the money isn't going straight into that, it's going into the time it took to perfect the part and the knowledge to even create it you know? i think like you on most things since i'm used to my civic now, shit is cheap even if it's a good part. hell i could get a bisimoto header for near 600, that's like what some of these guys paid for their dc. my DC was 80 so i get it.

but they are pretty much 1 off pieces not a huge run or anything so i get both sides.


you could always do the janky dizzy setup like the people before this.

so what is said set up??

[Rendon LX-i]

Thats why i said you can chip it how you WANTED IT lol. But i got mine p06 dizzy and ecu for free lol....

[mushroom_toy]

Thats why i said you can chip it how you WANTED IT lol. But i got mine p06 dizzy and ecu for free lol....

Free parts are always the shit. :rockon:

[LX-incredible]

so what is said set up??

Cutting, welding, grinding, and redrilling the key.

The reason these plates are "so expensive" is because they're being made at a CNC MACHINE SHOP. I recieve no cut of the $300 and I seriously doubt chris is making a shit ton off of this either. It's just what this stuff costs to produce in these quantities.

[mushroom_toy]

Cutting, welding, grinding, and redrilling the key.

The reason these plates are "so expensive" is because they're being made at a CNC MACHINE SHOP. I recieve no cut of the $300 and I seriously doubt chris is making a shit ton off of this either. It's just what this stuff costs to produce in these quantities.

Technically the more made = lower price.

[Tdurr]

^^ at one time, if you do one here, and a few more down the road, then like 5 in a month, then one more like 8 months later, Then no. Not cheaper
p.s. its prob wuts gonna happen.

[Strugglebucket]

That plate and key is worth WAY more than $300 dollars to me. It's going to save me a huge amount of time. And I don't have much time to spare these days:lol:

[mushroom_toy]

Oh well Im cheap, lets leave it at that because the more I talk about being thrifty the worse this threads gonna get lol.

[Rendon LX-i]

LOL...im like DAMNNNN thats a grip...but you think bout it...the time and affort towards the project making it legit and its a straight up bolt on..no redrilling the cam key i think lol? but i going to get all obd1 in income tax time....i mean all...lol

[cygnus x-1]

Estimating projects like this is hard because you have no idea at the start how much it will be worth in the long run; i.e. how many people will buy these things and how much will they be willing to pay, vs. how much will the parts cost to make? Do you trade larger short term profit for a greater number of sales over the long run? What if no one buys the things and you end up wasting your time? Once you pick a production method the actual cost just to make a single part of most anything is pretty much fixed, and it's usually quite low. But you also have to include a portion of all the up front cost that it took to get you to that point to be able to make that one part. If the production quantity is very low then that initial startup cost becomes a large part of the final cost of a single part. And obviously if the production quantity is higher, then the initial startup cost can be spread out more. But in the beginning you have to make a guess at what the total production quantity will be so you can figure out how much of that initial startup cost to roll in to each part. Here's an example to illustrate: (these are just made up numbers with no relation to this project)

Say it takes $1000 of up front work to get to where you can press the green button to make that first part. And say that the labor + material cost to make each part is $100. If you only sell one part, the total incurred cost is $1100. That single part cost $1100 to make so it better sell for $1100. If you sell 10 parts the total incurred cost is 10 x $100 + $1000 = $2000. When divided among the total production run each part only cost $200, so you can afford to offer a much lower price. But what if you have no idea how many will sell when you first start? How much risk do you want to take by offering a low selling price, hoping that you end up selling enough to cover your initial outlay? It's never an easy decision and it's always a compromise.


And I'll be the first to admit, I still have exactly the same reaction to prices on some stuff. Holy crap, they want how much? For that? That's crazy, they can't be serious! I could make that for way cheaper! And then after I spend an entire day to save $20, was it really worth it?


Anyway, I'm not trying to lecture or rant. I just wanted to point out that things are never as simple as they appear on the surface. I will offer one more thought though (and I REALLY hope this doesn't turn into a political flamewar :nervous:). We (including myself) are SERIOUSLY spoiled by cheap foreign labor. We are so used to paying insanely low prices for things that would cost 10x more if they were made in the US. It is truly a frightening issue.

And I'll leave it at that.


C|

[mushroom_toy]

^Wasnt most all of the research already done though, and you just started making the pieces because the other guy flaked?

[2drSE-i]

^Wasnt most all of the research already done though, and you just started making the pieces because the other guy flaked?

hardly. There were a ton of tweaks to be made, and he had to write the cad stuff himself.

[LX-incredible]

^Wasnt most all of the research already done though, and you just started making the pieces because the other guy flaked?

A lot needed to be changed, errors on my part, and stuff left out/incorrect tolerances by crucial. He did move the project along and get the base work done on the mastercam model, so my thanks go to him for that. From what I understand Chris pretty much had to start from scratch due to errors in the writing of the program. Several pieces needed to be made to hold the work as well. A redesign of the coolant port, broken tooling, a plate or two lost for the first run, tweaking, setup, etc. Not bad for $300. You'd be hard pressed to find someone to properly weld tabs and drill the key for that...

[mushroom_toy]

Ah ok wasnt sure cause i didnt read the thread 100%.


Not bad for $300. You'd be hard pressed to find someone to properly weld tabs and drill the key for that...

You dont know me too well lol.

[MessyHonda]

its worth it guys....obd1 is the shit

[Rendon LX-i]

I agree...after seening Jessys car in action...Makes the a20 want to rev way more then what the redline is at..so health...mad props

[MessyHonda]

i need a tune bro...i remember guyanabo said my set up should make like 140whp...his car did before he did the rebuild...i would of been happy to hit 120...oh well

[cygnus x-1]

It ended up being a fair amount of work to get to the final design. The files I started with were kinda screwy so I had to create new CAD files and Mastercam programs. The basic geometry was there but there was no model of the entire part. The original coolant port design was also angled (making it harder to make and thus more expensive) so I changed it to reduce machining setup time and therefore cost. There is also a sacrificial plate that I had to make to hold the adapter plate during final machining since it's an irregular shape and can't be held in a vise by the outer edges. There is also a fixture I made to get the correct alignment for the distributor key.

Anyway, it's a good solution if you want a plug-and-play part. Modifying a distibutor to fit directly would be a cleaner (fewer parts) solution but I don't know if it would really be less work in the end. If you have aluminum welding capability, maybe. But then would it still have to be clocked differently? Requireing modification of the key or fabrication of a new one? I really don't know.

I'll stop spamming MT's thread now. :slap: :D

C|