Mega(jolt) fail & firing question

[knifemind]

So, a death in the family & me trying to move has put a damper in my work, but I had started my EDIS (big thanks to Cygnus) installation with no success.

My first question is about the firing order, or, more specifically, the placement of the leads from the distributor. Both my Prelude, and my manual say that from the firewall toward the front, the plugs should be for cylinders 4-2-1-3. On tmy 3gee, however, they are offset one position, wired to 2-1-3-4, even though the cap still says 4-2-1-3. Does it mean everything is off 90 or 180 degrees?
Anyone know why or how it would be like this, and am I going to have to redrill the trigger wheel?

[Dr_Snooz]

Um...search?

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67859&highlight=firing+order

[cygnus x-1]

Since you're doing the EDIS conversion you don't need to worry about the distributor at all. All you need to know is that the engine cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4 from driver's side to passenger's side, or crank pulley to transmission. The EDIS coil pack should be marked for which plug wire goes where.

Also, the trigger wheel has no effect on the firing order. It just provides a reference for #1 TDC and a series of pulses for timing.

Did you get everything wired up and are trying to start it?

C|

[knifemind]

Um...search?

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67859&highlight=firing+order

That's a useless reply. I know the firing order. Maybe you misunderstood what I was asking. What I was asking is if it is possible that I think I'm set to #1tdc, but really not there. As I understand it, there is only one (correct) way to assemble the motor, and when I set the crank & installed the pulley, the sensor only needed minor adjusting to be in front of the 9th tooth, as instructed, so I assumed I had everything correct, but I was just asking in case someone knows something I don't.

Yes Cygnus, I did. I triple checked everything and it's still a no go. I switched the vr sensor leads multiple times and tried it with and without the mjl.

I will dive in in a week or so when I can spare a day to fuck with it. Maybe I just overlooked something really obvious.

[Strugglebucket]

I know nothing about EDIS conversions but you might want to double check that you're ignition reference for tdc is to the compression stroke, and not the exhaust.

[cygnus x-1]

The crank pulley can only go on one way so nothing to check there. With the crank set at #1 (or #4, doesn't matter) TDC the missing tooth on the trigger ring should be at the bottom of the pulley by the oil pan. Because it's a waste fire system it doesn't know what the cam position is and doesn't care. (Obviously the engine cares but I'm assuming you didn't mess with the timing belt.) So to answer the original question, the wiring order on the distributor doesn't matter. The VR sensor/bracket can only line up one way so that should be fine. The sensor does need to be fairly close to the trigger wheel, 1/16" (2-3 business cards thick) should work well. That's all there is to it mechanically.

Next, I would disconnect the Megajolt entirely. It should fire up and run without it, but probably with a slow idle since the default timing is fixed at 10 degrees BTDC. If it cranks and won't fire at all I would suspect a power or wiring problem. Put a timing light on it while cranking and see if the light flashes. Inductive timing lights can be funny with waste fire ignitions so you might have to play around with how you clip it to the plug wire (flip it upside down.) You should get a fairly consistent flash from the light. If not then there is a power or wiring problem. If it does flash then it's likely a fuel problem. One possibility is that the fuel pump relay doesn't like the tach signal and isn't turning on the pump.


But first I would try the timing light because it's quick and easy.


C|

[cygnus x-1]

I know nothing about EDIS conversions but you might want to double check that you're ignition reference for tdc is to the compression stroke, and not the exhaust.


This is the funny thing about waste fire systems like EDIS. The cylinders are paired 1-4 and 2-3. The cylinders in a pair fire at the same time so one cylinder will be starting the power stroke and the other will be just ending it's exhaust stroke. Obviously nothing will happen with the cylinder at it's exhaust stroke because the mixture is already burned, therefore the spark in that cylinder is "wasted". What's interesting too is that you can actually switch the 1-4 or 2-3 plug wires and it will run just the same.

C|

[Strugglebucket]

^thank you, now i know slightly more than nothing.

[knifemind]

So....turns out I was correct, somehow. I got it all together and it just cranked and cranked. then I backfired out the back pretty heavy, and then another out the front...I heard an explosion and smoke came from the bay. I was scared I killed my car :( . But at least I knew I had sparks. I unplugged all the plugs and checked for spark...yes, there is spark. Out of curiosity, I moved the #4 plug to the #2 on the coil & had my ex crank it, and I head it fire. Immediately I knew that just as with the distro, it was all offset. I wired them up and filmed the first fire up...

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/knifemind/th_DSCN0128.jpg (http://s92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/knifemind/?action=view&current=DSCN0128.flv)

Now the downside is that I was running it shortly after the install was done, and it died....and now I am not getting fuel. My fuel gave out within minutes of getting the mj working. Here's the history... A few weeks ago my electric choke stopped working, so when it's cold the motor will die if you let it idle.I checked it out but could not find any reason for it. Today after the EDIS install, I fired it up and was standing outside and seemed fine, then it slowed and sputtered to a stop. After I dug into the carb I found a BOLT wedged inside...no wonder the choke f'ed up. Anyway, the car wont start now. I checked again for spark, and all is well. I pulled the fuel line to the carb and am not getting any flow. So now it's either fuel cut off relay or fuel pump, right? Is there any easy way to check these? Is it safe to just wire the fuel pump on it's own switch?

[ghettogeddy]

you have gas right lol

you should be able to pull the pump and test it with a battery
if not check that main relay

[knifemind]

yeah I've got gas, thanks....I had my ass outside until about 1am, but I wired the fuel pump to a switch, and it runs again. I hate working in the dark, but I have to be about 100 miles away for work in about 9 hours.

So logic says that my fuel relay is bad, but is there any real reason to replace the relay versus keeping a custom switch? Any reliability/safety issues I should worry about?

[ghettogeddy]

no but simplicity says replace it so you don leave the pump on on accedent lol

[Oldblueaccord]

Well you did right trouble shooting it.Most people just start swaping parts needlessly.

Now that you have it figured out get a relay or try soldering the old one. It IS a safety issue you could burn up in a crash. I lost a very good friend of mine this way it is not a good way to die.

wp

[Importordomestic]

I did the same thing a few months ago when i was building a 4age in a 86 corolla gts. Glad to see one runnign distributor less.

out of pure curiosity how do you have your trigger wheel and pickup mounted on the engine? Earlier it was mentioned that your pickup os mounted on the bottom, i assume using the oilpan bolts? Did you make your own brackets and machine the front pully to accept a press fit 36-1 trigger wheel?

thanks

[knifemind]

Cygnus made the bracket and set up the wheel for me. The pulley is modified to fit the wheel where the AC belt would go. It is bolted to the pulley. The sensor bracket is mounted on the front of the block where the compressor and bracket would be.

Apparently I overlooked the fact that the fuel relay gets signal from the tach, so that was why I was not getting fuel (now fixed). I trimmed up all my wires and loomed everything today, and it is all in good working order.

Here you can see the wheel & bracket and kinda how it's mounted...not the best pics, but you get the idea.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/knifemind/accord/DSCN00262009-05-15_12-54-28.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/knifemind/accord/DSCN0139.jpg
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l5/knifemind/accord/DSCN0140.jpg

[Civic Accord Honda]

1 word...
win!!.
that is alll.

[MessyHonda]

is it running yet?

[knifemind]

Yes. Everything works perfectly.

[Joay]

It's a goddamn miracle! :lol:

[Importordomestic]

Yes. Everything works perfectly.

Thanks for the information, and glad to see its runing.