Autocross

[86AccordLxi]

Reading Mark's post in the Wangan Racer 3g thread got me thinking about how many people here actually autox?

I've done 7 events already this year (including a 3day weekend down at a go-kart track in medford that got me 50-60 'track' miles on my car), with another 3day weekend in packwood, wa (14-acre parking lot :drool:) coming up July 4. Won my class (SM) a couple weeks ago at a local event, and was 7/80 cars participating, so it's going better. Picking up a set of 225/45/17 Hoosiers next week so we'll see how that goes :D :D

For those of you who don't participate, you should. It's usually a humbling experience your first few times :D and a great experience in general. It's about the only venue you where you can go ballz-out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/DSC_9991Medium.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/DSC_9950Medium.jpg


I will say if you have a couple buddies that also want to try it, but haven't yet, go together. Autocrossing is a great way to meet people but it's a lot more fun if you go in a group.

Here's my buddy's cars:
Supercharged miata (~230whp with built motor on the way):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/DSC_9905Medium.jpg

And my friend josh's LS1 FC (320whp/340wtq on 285 v710s :) )
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/DSC_9515Medium.jpg

[2ndGenGuy]

Great, now look what you've done, Mark. ;)

[86AccordLxi]

I have also autox'd my stock 3g lxi (it had 225k on it at the time) and it's fun, but painful lol.

[2ndGenGuy]

Now you wanna see some REAL cars autocrossing, check out this sweet 1984 Accord:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4625438277495315947

Seriously though, no matter what car you have, it's a lot of fun. You learn more there because you can talk to people, and see cars that have REAL setups. It's better than pictures on the internet, where you miss out on so much. People love talking about their cars, so unless they're total dicks (most autocrossers are pretty cool) they'll talk your ear off about their setup.

God that video was painful to watch. What a noob driving that fuckin' thing.

[Civic Accord Honda]

I Would love to go to an Autocross event one day, But first I must have a properly running vehicle and drivers license .

[markmdz89hatch]

lovely. ...oh, but for those that think they're going to be able to arrive and drive without any fear of breaking... ...I ruptured my rear left shock on my Z and had to limp it home. ...just be prepared to have more fun than you've ever had. ...but just like John and Alex said, it's one hell of a humbling experience.

[2ndGenGuy]

i wants to accidently an auto-x

http://www.3geez.com/forum/customavatars/avatar12053_1.gif

[labeledsk8r]

i wish there were auto-x events localy, but i have to drive about an hour and a half just to get to place that has regular events.. my city isnt small just no one is motivated to set anytihng up. but driveing that far scares me becuse if i break something at the event (my car is 15 years old) then im stuck out there normaly resulting in a costly tow home

they did open a local cart track up every once and a while but its for wana be drifters only. no fwd cars :'(

[Joay]

It definitely looks cool, but from what I've been told by folks who've actually been to events in the area, I think there are too many restrictions and regulations for me to really enjoy it. Maybe it's not like that everywhere, but the SCCA in southern WV (secondhand information) trip out if you screw up, go off the course a little, or generally don't treat the event like it's life or death.

Hopefully that's exaggerated. My car's too busted up for me to try anyway.

[86AccordLxi]

^That's a bad attitude to go into it.

Your first event you'll be in a novice class, and usually you get an instructor (or at least can request one).

There are lots of rules that matter is you're actually competitive, but in my experience VERY VERY few people show up and do well their first three or four events. The only time the rules matter is if you're kicking people's asses and you get protested. You can also run Not-for-points (NFP) and then you don't have to worry about anything.

Mostly, I read on here about how everyone has so-and-so badass setup, and I think it's important that people get out to events to see real cars with real money and great drivers to boot :D

All you need is all the loose shit removed from your car, a battery tie-down, a cover on the positive battery terminal, not big/obvious leaks, and no crazy play in your wheels from bad wheel bearings or whatnot.

[86AccordLxi]

lovely. ...oh, but for those that think they're going to be able to arrive and drive without any fear of breaking... ...I ruptured my rear left shock on my Z and had to limp it home. ...just be prepared to have more fun than you've ever had. ...but just like John and Alex said, it's one hell of a humbling experience.

*knock on wood*

I have yet to break anything on my car so far, though this is my first year of REALLY getting into it.

I did have to raise the front of my car though as it was rubbing pretty bad, but it was for the better as I can actually feel the weight shift under braking now and the geometry, while still jacked, is better than it was :)

Still toying with tire pressures and shock adjustments but baby steps :D

[turabaka]

yep autocrossing is definitely fun. I sucked ass my first few events, but I'm pretty happy with where I sit now. holding steady at 4th place in a class that only has one rule. Must be a registered car. I'm hoping that with the new clutch I just put in it that I'll move up at least 1 ranking, but 4th place on a slipping clutch isn't that bad. Especially when the car right in front of me is a 500 hp evo X.

[86AccordLxi]

Yeah autocross is a mostly about driver, though I've done a couple of events this year that were power courses (porsche club is good for that :) ).

[Strugglebucket]

Is the the "autocross is awesome" thread? Alright, I'm in.:D



This is my first year running. The San Francisco SCCA has some REALLY fast cars (and drivers). I'm the idiot running his '89 accord in SM and getting whooped on by evos, stis, and 2100lb civics with 275 A6s. I should have just lied and run in ST. But with my cam and gearbox I'm just too fast, haha.

I've been trying to get some sort of a 3g meet together at one of the events, but no luck yet.

[86AccordLxi]

3g is SM, damn.

I do ok in local SM and I get my ass kicked at SCCA regional SM. Hopefully the next event will be dry (the first one was puuuure water) so I don't suck quite as much ass lol.

[knifemind]

My local group (chapter?) http://bigskyregion.org/ just got their venue back at the local community college, so our next event is July 26, and I hope to be making it my first. Based on what I have read up on, I too will end up in SM.

[86AccordLxi]

I'm in SM b/c of motorswap and metal bushings everywhere -- what are the rules for carbs and such?

Really none of it matters. I will never really be competitive outside regional stuff, so I just go to have fun and actually learn to drive my car. I haven't added any new parts this year (besides a griffin radiator) -- just been getting as much seat time as possible/as I can afford.

[2ndGenGuy]

I should throw my damn clutch and brakes on my Miata and go get some more wheel time. God knows the Accord won't be ready for it this year.

[markmdz89hatch]

I'm in SM b/c of motorswap and metal bushings everywhere -- what are the rules for carbs and such?

Really none of it matters. I will never really be competitive outside regional stuff, so I just go to have fun and actually learn to drive my car. I haven't added any new parts this year (besides a griffin radiator) -- just been getting as much seat time as possible/as I can afford.

Don't feel bad. Not only was I not that competitive, but I haven't gone to an event in about 4-5 years due to not having a car to play with. The only thing I've done in that time is a one-day stint at the Skip Barber school. Other than that, nada. I'm pushing to get my car ready to make at least one event by the end of the year.

[86AccordLxi]

There's these things. They're called sentras/civics. You should get one ;)

b13 se-r is a whole bundle of fun :D

[MessyHonda]

Is the the "autocross is awesome" thread? Alright, I'm in.:D



This is my first year running. The San Francisco SCCA has some REALLY fast cars (and drivers). I'm the idiot running his '89 accord in SM and getting whooped on by evos, stis, and 2100lb civics with 275 A6s. I should have just lied and run in ST. But with my cam and gearbox I'm just too fast, haha.

I've been trying to get some sort of a 3g meet together at one of the events, but no luck yet.

im trying to piece together the openloop coupe so i can go out....post some more stuff so we can go

[2drSE-i]

actually makes me feel pretty good about taking my car out sometime. I dont like the feel of a gutted car, and just wanted to have fun lol. I have a few hours of wheel time, but not much.

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah man fuck it! Take your car out as it is! It's the bomb no matter what you drive. I autocrossed my 84 when it was completely stock (not that its super modded now) and still whooped a bit of ass :D (emphasis on bit) but has a lot of fun.

[turabaka]

Is the the "autocross is awesome" thread? Alright, I'm in.:D



This is my first year running. The San Francisco SCCA has some REALLY fast cars (and drivers). I'm the idiot running his '89 accord in SM and getting whooped on by evos, stis, and 2100lb civics with 275 A6s. I should have just lied and run in ST. But with my cam and gearbox I'm just too fast, haha.

I've been trying to get some sort of a 3g meet together at one of the events, but no luck yet.

yeah it sucks being stuck in a class like that. If I decide to change classes to a nationally recognized class I'll be stuck in E mod because I have a gutted interior. That's the only thing that automatically disqualifies me from SM.

The pax index would still be better for me in E mod though. yay for a pax of 1.00!!! :help:

[Strugglebucket]

i just went to the junkyard and pieced together all the plastic trim for my trunk that I had long ago gotten rid of. Put it all in so now i'm completely legal.

...not that anyone's going to protest my slow ass:lol:

[markmdz89hatch]

There's these things. They're called sentras/civics. You should get one ;)

b13 se-r is a whole bundle of fun :D

Yeah except over here, the civics are painfully expensive to insure, and are still going for a stupid price.

Those 'unknown' little SER's are a discovered secret here too thanks to a lot of Nissan guys. I have kept my eye out for an early '90's SE-R for years and they all are either rusted out or are painfully expensive.

[paul]

People in the NY region show up with all sorts of creations:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/pj350/IMG_0296.jpg

It's a 1st gen miata with a big turbo, very talented driver...
He's got a plastic gremlin head on the dash that the eyes light up on when he hits full boost :cheers:
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y143/pj350/?action=view&current=MVI_0300.flv

[turabaka]

^^ I like the nos can on the back. lol

[Strugglebucket]

he's got my wheels.

subzeros=poor man's rpf1

[86AccordLxi]

rpf1 = poor man's wheels anyway lol.

They're so cheap.

[Strugglebucket]

$800 bucks for a set of 15's is cheap? I clearly need to rethink my choice in hobbies.

[86AccordLxi]

I only spent $1k for 17x9 +22, 17x9.5 +38. 15.9lbs for the front, 16.4 for the rear.

That's cheap for those sizes and considering the weight.

[Strugglebucket]

Yeah, I guess they're at least a good value considering the weight. I want to get a set of 15x7 to replace my 16x7 subzeros. 9.5lbs vs. 14.5lbs would save me 20lbs of wheel weight.

BTW, do you have a thread on your 240 anywhere?

[MessyHonda]

i just went to the junkyard and pieced together all the plastic trim for my trunk that I had long ago gotten rid of. Put it all in so now i'm completely legal.

...not that anyone's going to protest my slow ass:lol:

damn i took out my trunk trim....what does that mean?

[MessyHonda]

Yeah, I guess they're at least a good value considering the weight. I want to get a set of 15x7 to replace my 16x7 subzeros. 9.5lbs vs. 14.5lbs would save me 20lbs of wheel weight.

BTW, do you have a thread on your 240 anywhere?

i think my rotas are like 13.5 pounds and they are 16s

[turabaka]

damn i took out my trunk trim....what does that mean?

It means E mod for you Messy. lol. I doubt anyone is going to say anything if you want to run street prepared or street modified. They only start complaining if you start winning. heh

[MessyHonda]

lol that sucks....i threw mine away

[russiankid]

http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs114.snc1/5143_105985663254_620258254_2758307_1649700_n.jpg

[86AccordLxi]

Stock 3g is mostly entertaining at autox. Rotates pretty nice with some trail braking.

[russiankid]

What exactly is trail braking?

[86AccordLxi]

Well traditional trail braking it braking through to the apex, but using gradually lessening braking force as you reach the apex.

I remember from my 1 3g autox that braking after turn in got me some pretty excellent rotation! Lots of fun.

[russiankid]

Hmm ok. I braked right when I was about to enter the turn. I slammed the brakes at the last minute and went for the turn.

[turabaka]

Hmm ok. I braked right when I was about to enter the turn. I slammed the brakes at the last minute and went for the turn.

I've found braking earlier than I think I need to usually gets me better times.

[russiankid]

With my tires I cannot be in a turn fast. So I make up the time by braking at the last minute. I realized that after the 3rd run that it worked out better for me. 4-wheel disk brakes work well in this situation.

[86AccordLxi]

Doesn't matter what kind of brakes you have -- rear brakes don't do all that much work anyway.

Pad selection is more important, and more important still is tires. Shitty tires don't stop as well as good tires.

[russiankid]

Doesn't matter what kind of brakes you have -- rear brakes don't do all that much work anyway.

Pad selection is more important, and more important still is tires. Shitty tires don't stop as well as good tires.

True, but I did notice the car stops a lot better after a swap.

[russiankid]

So I was put into STU class instead of HS like I should have been. This is odd...look at what I was up against. I still finished 103rd out of 109.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/russian03rustler/Accord/Mytimes.jpg

[86AccordLxi]

Class only matters for PAX time really. PAX is a multiplier applied to every class' time that is supposed to normalize the times.

I usually just like to compare my times to the rest of the raw times and see where I end up.

[markmdz89hatch]

I'm going to say what you're calling trail braking by definition is actually what I've been taught is threshold braking. Threshold braking is when you brake at the last possible second (the right time) and brake to the point where you are at the threshold of breaking traction, but still maintain control of the vehicle. Trail braking, as it was taught to me, is when you use your braking to aid in controlling the traction, usually while accelerating out of a turn or preparing to weight-shift the car for a turn.

My instructor at Skippy went on a soap-box talking all about how early turn-in (early apex) is the single most common problem with us wannabe's. When he was coaching me a bit, he pushed me to find the breaking point of traction preparing for, and turning through, a turn which let me keep max speed and got me WAY faster on exit speeds.

Since then, I've been challenging myself to wait until the last split second before turning in. Essentially practicing late apexing, which is not entirely safe, but makes for some stupid fast turns. The key there being not waiting until the point where you overbrake and lose exit speed.

Russian, sometimes shitty tires help you use the weight of the car to turn it rather than traction. One of my most favorite tricks is that good 'ol "scandanavian flick" where it's all about breaking traction to turn the car and maintain stupid speed.

Anyway, just my .02 from a clown that's all talk and no action (seriously, in concept it's great, I just gotta stop talking about it and put it to practice. one day... ...one day.)

[russiankid]

I will try that next time I run. Definitely sounds better than what I do.

[86AccordLxi]

I'm going to say what you're calling trail braking by definition is actually what I've been taught is threshold braking. Threshold braking is when you brake at the last possible second (the right time) and brake to the point where you are at the threshold of breaking traction, but still maintain control of the vehicle. Trail braking, as it was taught to me, is when you use your braking to aid in controlling the traction, usually while accelerating out of a turn or preparing to weight-shift the car for a turn.

My instructor at Skippy went on a soap-box talking all about how early turn-in (early apex) is the single most common problem with us wannabe's. When he was coaching me a bit, he pushed me to find the breaking point of traction preparing for, and turning through, a turn which let me keep max speed and got me WAY faster on exit speeds.

Since then, I've been challenging myself to wait until the last split second before turning in. Essentially practicing late apexing, which is not entirely safe, but makes for some stupid fast turns. The key there being not waiting until the point where you overbrake and lose exit speed.

Russian, sometimes shitty tires help you use the weight of the car to turn it rather than traction. One of my most favorite tricks is that good 'ol "scandanavian flick" where it's all about breaking traction to turn the car and maintain stupid speed.

Anyway, just my .02 from a clown that's all talk and no action (seriously, in concept it's great, I just gotta stop talking about it and put it to practice. one day... ...one day.)

http://virtualracersedge.com/trail_braking.htm

Braking after turn-in while still turning.

For the 240, no way. Brake in a straight line, turn in, add skinny pedal, [countersteer lol ].

[86AccordLxi]

More pics from a real photographer.

These are from a 3day mr2 event that we crashed a few weeks ago. Tons and tons and tons of driving on this track:

http://www.sokarters.org/images/track_overview.jpg.

LOTS of seat time. 2min/2laps at a time around the gokart track, whatever config you wanted to run.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113302975XsH2sss3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113302977S3Dew9OL.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/1133029793Dly6xzZ.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113302983w1tnZidn.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303021q1aT9Pfj.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303022rWbsLrqz.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303024JpqDPnyj.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303025lggLsj6Z.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/1133030279V6QKGQpIMG_1256.jpg

[86AccordLxi]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303073NZBnJYLG.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303120ScZRxCql.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303121zRtgPYyW.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303122eee1BvSA.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303124LTHVXSHF.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/113303125s5sM7FrL.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v168/e1griego/DSC_9352Medium.jpg

[MessyHonda]

nice pics

[Justanothermike]

My brother took the Accord out for some autocross action back in the day. I did it a couple of times and definitely fun as hell. Here's an old video i made long time ago. Sorry for the music. I was in my techno stage back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8sU_i4D9co

[russiankid]

That is a really fast course.

[Rendon LX-i]

fuck that think revs fucking quick...DAMN messy a lucky man


Alex we have to do that sometime....looks fuckin sick to do

[MessyHonda]

My brother took the Accord out for some autocross action back in the day. I did it a couple of times and definitely fun as hell. Here's an old video i made long time ago. Sorry for the music. I was in my techno stage back then.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8sU_i4D9co

you mean...the car had fat fives at one point?.....haha...i roll fat fives now.

[turabaka]

ready for an autocross tomorrow morning. I'm excited to see how I'll do now that I have a new clutch. I'll be running without a hood though since I haven't got my new on one yet. lol

[Justanothermike]

you mean...the car had fat fives at one point?.....haha...i roll fat fives now.

It had fat fives for most of its life.

[MessyHonda]

It had fat fives for most of its life.

lol...i guess it loves its shoes...its a good set up with the suspension