Car dying and running roughly

[lui0046]

Hello guys

I´m new here but I´ve been working on my car for some time and now it´s giving me a hard time trying to figure out what´s wrong

Here´s the story
I got a 1988 accord, sedan, LXi, T25 turbo, MSD BTM 5462, SAFC, 450cc n FMI, obiously.

The car starts up kind of hard n when it does, it stays at 750rpm n not at 1000 as it used.

After accelerating it, it starts to run roughly at 3000rpms n stays like that until passing 4500rpms, like if it was loosing gas, or not burning it all, since I noticed some black smoke coming out of the exhaust pipe :sad2:

Today I changed the fuel pump thinking fuel pressure was not right but same results :banghead:

I also switched to new iridium spark plugs and NGK 8mm wires n same thing

I haven´t started tunning the SAFC yet and I probably will be following this post to tune it up, but I want to get this issue resolved first
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69540&highlight=fuel

I would appreciate any help you can give

Thanks

[MessyHonda]

yeah you have to adjust your fuel....nice to see a turbo accord here tho

[lui0046]

Thanks messy. I figured it out. Hose 21 to control box, page 12-8, workshop manual, got damaged. I replaced it and everything works great. Will tune it up now and see how it goes

[Demon1024]

The best way to fix it is to post some pics of that car :)

And welcome to the site btw!

[lui0046]

OK. Back again. Got the 450cc bluetop injectors. Set the Apexi as follows
1000 -42%
1500 -41%
2000 -38%
3000 -37%
4000 -35%
5000 -34%
6000 -33%
7000 -33%

Start it up and it stays at 750/850rpms. Not sure why. I accelerate it and it stalls at 4000rpms. Not sure why.

Everything seems properly plugged in.

Got to mention that car was running with 350cc injectors before. Got them placed back and car runs fine until reaching 4000rpms, there the check engine light comes on and gives code 5.

Checked the MAP sensor and it is connected.

Set the SAFC to 0 Low and High. Same thing.

Not sure what I'm missing

[guaynabo89]

Boost is controlled by internal wastegate I take it? How many Lbs it set to and what does your ar lok like?
What do you have ur plugs gapped to? What heat range are they?Ngk vpowers will do you good cause iridiums like to brake when gapped
Got a wideband?

It sounds like ur heading in the right direction

[lui0046]

Well. I´ll try to get some pics this week. I got it set at 8psi. I discarded the iridium plugs today and got the old ones placed back. Didn´t help much.

I haven´t gotten a wideband. Not sure where to get one that fits :violin:

Any recommendations?

I noticed something funny today. For some reason I´m not getting any air flow reading on the SAFC. Shouldn´t I be getting any?

I plugged the SAFC`s blue wire to Connector B11, which I noticed is not red-blue, but pink instead on the ECU side. Not sure why :wtf:

Anyways. I´m planning on replacing the MAP sensor on Monday and see how everything goes.

Does anybody know why I might not be getting any air flow readings?

Thanks

PS: idle is between 750-900 with old 350cc injectors and SAFC set at 0% both Hi/Lo

[LX-incredible]

You probably will need one of those map-fooling check valve dinguses or a map with a different range...

[lui0046]

You probably will need one of those map-fooling check valve dinguses or a map with a different range...

Yeah. I know. I´m planning going OBD1 next year n that`s why I wanted to keep playing with the SAFC for a while.

So you are saying i may need a, let`s say, AEM wideband O2 sensor?
http://www.amazon.com/AEM-30-2001-Bosch-Wideband-Sensor/dp/B000CFOIP6/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1248066112&sr=8-10

I was planning replacing the MAP sensor tomorrow and see if I can get the air flow signal working on the SAFC.

Thanks

[LX-incredible]

Is the sensor actually bad, or is the boost just fucking with it? You will need a check valve or a higher bar map sensor to mask/solve the problem.

I said nothing of the O2...

[lui0046]

Is the sensor actually bad, or is the boost just fucking with it? You will need a check valve or a higher bar map sensor to mask/solve the problem.

I said nothing of the O2...

OK. I'm back. Went out of town for a few days. I checked the MAP and it seems it's ok, but I still don't have any air flow signal on the apexi.

Everything is hooked up like this
connector a
black--->black & brown wires(ground)
yellow/black----->red (switched hot)

connector b
blue/red----->blue(o2 voltage)

connector c
white/blue----->white(map engine side)
white/blue----->yellow(map ecu side)
red/yellow----->grey(tps)
orange/blue----->green(rpm signal)

thanks

[lui0046]

OK. im getting air flow signal and the SAFC is working fine. Got to replace the map but im still having problems with the 450cc injectors.

I'm testing with them now and will let u guys know how it goes. was testing with 350cc injectors yesterday

[lui0046]

OK guys. i got the 450cc bluetop injectors in place. i started the car and it was staying around 750-950rpm. Is that normal when having those injectors? :dunno:

btw, i got an msd btm 5462 installed and same thing. i have the control knob set at 2 and the start point at 2 also.

any thoughts?

thanks

[Tdurr]

hmm... is ur starting still hard? I know mine is and i HAVE to use a fuel kill switch or it just floods. try riching it up where it wants to stall out at(i think u said 4500) and if it makes it worse then turn it down 2% and keep trying that. Also gap ur plugs to .032. and wut is the plug number? Im using BPR7ES-11. Same thing my buddys conquest uses(boosted from the factory)

[lui0046]

hmm... is ur starting still hard? I know mine is and i HAVE to use a fuel kill switch or it just floods. try riching it up where it wants to stall out at(i think u said 4500) and if it makes it worse then turn it down 2% and keep trying that. Also gap ur plugs to .032. and wut is the plug number? Im using BPR7ES-11. Same thing my buddys conquest uses(boosted from the factory)

Yes it is. im working on the fuel kill switch now.

Yesterday i went out and the car just died when coming back home.

I tried to restart it and it was not giving me any pulse in the tach, so i bypassed the msd and it started just fine.

Today i´ll have to check the msd and see wtf is going with it.

Has anybody used an msd btm 5462 before? How did you hook it up?

thanks

P.S.: haven´t gaped the plugs yet. Will work on that also

[lui0046]

OK. I went back to stock ignition and I'm still getting some hesitations on the tach when slowly accelerating.

Here's what I got
If I hit the accelerator slowly, the rpm increases but it drops around 100rpm like every 1 or 2 seconds.

i.e., it goes to 2000, drops to 1800 for a sec, then it hits 2100, 2200, 2300, then it drops to 2100 and so on.

But once I hit 4000 rpm it stabilizes there. Weird.

If I go WOT and from 1000rpm to 5500rpm and release it, I don't see any problems.

The MSD BTM 5462 got hooked it up following figure 6
http://www.msdpower.com/download/5462.pdf

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Rendon LX-i]

Sounds like a ingnition problem....yet a main relay problem.

[Tdurr]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57448

hook the btm up like that^^ simple..(fuck i think the pic stopped working, ill pm 89T)

but do like rendon says i guess. I have no idea wuts going on.

[lui0046]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57448

hook the btm up like that^^ simple..(fuck i think the pic stopped working, ill pm 89T)

but do like rendon says i guess. I have no idea wuts going on.

Thanks guys. I´ll check the btm connections and let you know.

I´m checking the relays and will see what I get

[lui0046]

OK. Good news. I hooked the BTM as per what Tdurr said and is working great.

I checked the plugs and 2 of them were gaped at .60 and the other 2 at .45. Got them at .32 and that worked. Thanks Tdurr

I'll probably get a 6 puck sprung disc, dual diaphragm pressure plate, and a flywheel all by clutchnet.

Thanks

[Tdurr]

glad i could help man! now u gotta get us some pics of ur car. :)

[lui0046]

glad i could help man! now u gotta get us some pics of ur car. :)

Yeah. Thanks Tim. I´ll try getting some tomorrow.

[lui0046]

OK. I´ve bad news. I was driving my car today and it suddenly died. I tried to start it again several times and nothing happened. After 10 minutes of keep trying it started again. Drove it for another 2 miles and it died again. It took me like 7 minutes this time to restart it.

I did notice that the check engine light came on and I was getting code 14, which is for the IAC Valve (Idle Air Control) as per the following
http://www.geocities.com/honda_club_egypt/ecu.htm

I checked it and it seems ok. So I´m not sure if I have to either replace the part, replace the sensor or what.

I´m kind of disappointed about that.

I disconnected the relay for the inyectors and the car starts fine. Plug it in again and it won´t start.

If you could give me any tips about what should I look for it´ll be great.

Thanks

[Rendon LX-i]

thats a bad thing...i would just replace the main relay which runs the injectors and fuel pump and spark...so switch it out. And how in the hell it ran with it unplug? wtf...wierd shit

[lui0046]

thats a bad thing...i would just replace the main relay which runs the injectors and fuel pump and spark...so switch it out. And how in the hell it ran with it unplug? wtf...wierd shit

Yeah. I was thinking about replacing the main relay too. I replaced the fuel pump and sparks like 3 weeks ago.

Well. I unplugged it, start the car, and plugged it again right away. If I plug it in it just won´t start. wtf

thanks

[Tdurr]

Yeah. I was thinking about replacing the main relay too. I replaced the fuel pump and sparks like 3 weeks ago.

Well. I unplugged it, start the car, and plugged it again right away. If I plug it in it just won´t start. wtf

thanks

My car is like that. lol Cpt i have my fuel pump hooked up to the attn switch. SO all i gotta do it hit up on the switch and it cutz the fuel pump.

But mine has flooded so bad that the car ran with the holding the switch off for a solid minute at 3k.:flash:

[lui0046]

My car is like that. lol Cpt i have my fuel pump hooked up to the attn switch. SO all i gotta do it hit up on the switch and it cutz the fuel pump.

But mine has flooded so bad that the car ran with the holding the switch off for a solid minute at 3k.:flash:

Yeah. That´s exactly my problem. I´ll try installing the fuel kill switch tomorrow and see how it goes.

One question
Are the 450cc injectors the cause of that problem?

I remember NOT having that problem with the 350cc injectors.

I´ve been thinking about it and I was planning testing with my old 350cc injectors this week, since they are I would say, in the middle range of tunning for our cars and not spitting too much fuel into the engine. Then play with the SAFC and set it to a range where the engine can run rich when going WOT.

Let me know what you guys think.

Thanks

[Rendon LX-i]

i never had a problem flooding my a20....you guys runing rich as fuck then ....

[lui0046]

i never had a problem flooding my a20....you guys runing rich as fuck then ....

Yeah. That's what I'm thinking, but the SAFC is set as yours and still having the same problem.

[Tdurr]

^^ even if its set the same there are a variety of differences in our set ups. Do you have a adjustable fpr, or a FMU?


but its not the injectors, i had this problem before them, its the main relay, get another one or two from a JY and re solder them and plug them up. My car starts up find when its cool outside. less then the first turn of the motor.

[lui0046]

^^ even if its set the same there are a variety of differences in our set ups. Do you have a adjustable fpr, or a FMU?


but its not the injectors, i had this problem before them, its the main relay, get another one or two from a JY and re solder them and plug them up. My car starts up find when its cool outside. less then the first turn of the motor.

I have an FMU.

OK. I´ll try getting a pair of main relays and see if that works.

Thanks guys

[Rendon LX-i]

no no no...my friend..you cant use the FMU with a safc. take the shit off..thats your reason right there. you map is controling how much fuel the injectors are spiting so the afc is like working and the fmu at the same time LOL.....no no no...

[lui0046]

no no no...my friend..you cant use the FMU with a safc. take the shit off..thats your reason right there. you map is controling how much fuel the injectors are spiting so the afc is like working and the fmu at the same time LOL.....no no no...

OK. I'll get rid of the FMU and let you know how it goes.

Thanks

[Tdurr]

well then. problem solved. lol let us know wut happens man :)

[lui0046]

well then. problem solved. lol let us know wut happens man :)

OK good news and kind of bad news.

Good news are that I got rid of the fmu and the car is doing pretty good.

Bad news. The tach is not working. I started the car and it was working, but in less than a mile it just died.

I´ll have to check the connections to it, I suppose :hmph:

Do you guys know what could be the problem?

Thanks

[Tdurr]

no clue. lol our tach is cable driven or something(but dont quote me, i could just be talking outta my ass) btw, when u gonna get pics of ur car?

[lui0046]

no clue. lol our tach is cable driven or something(but dont quote me, i could just be talking outta my ass) btw, when u gonna get pics of ur car?

Oh well. I´ll check the manual and see what it says about it.

Well. I´m currently working on a new header and pipes. I custom made the ones I have and they seem to be getting rusty :sad2:

I´ll probably have to get a new clutch, pressure plate and flywheel since the ones I currently have are about to throw in the towel. Oh, and I have to paint the car, it reaaaally needs to be painted.

But still, I´ll try getting you some pics of what I´ve so far. That way I can start my own thread and you guys can watch the progress closely

Thanks

[Tdurr]

no prob helping u out man, thats wut we are here for. So far i think i know of 6-7 turbo accords like ours yet...

[lui0046]

no prob helping u out man, thats wut we are here for. So far i think i know of 6-7 turbo accords like ours yet...

Yeah. Thanks.

I know there`re quite a few guys wanting to go turbo but i`ve only seen like 2-3 i believe.

I read a lot of helpful info about turbo stuff in the 3geez forums and i´ve been watching your thread and rendon´s also closely so i can have a better idea of how to go from this point