Innovative mount thread - REFUNDS

['A20A3']

okay well, i have spoke with my lawyer, i have a case. i mentioned that i'm not the only one that has been robbed in this situation and i ve estimated around $4000 was stoln from all of us. (correct me if i'm wrong)

being as my lawyer grew up with my dad, im straight on this. i wont have a problem collecting my money, and possibly even more. he's a good lawyer. plus my mother works for class-action attorneys. so either way this will all be resolved, and the person/people responsible for this will feel the financial pain. if you would like to be involved in getting your money back, PM me, or if you want to speak to me via telephone, my cell is 410-200-3693. feel free to contact me, my name is harvey.

he suggested i/we dispute it via paypal FIRST. as it should be insured through them, and then paypal would end up sueing him for these damages. if paypal is unable to resolve it, we have a case.

again, feel free to contact me, as i will be rigorously pursuing this.

thank you.

[2drSE-i]

Ok, I've stayed out of this and the other thread because its really none of my business. I was not involved in the group buy, I've not been cheated out of my money, but I have a few things to say.

1. Paypal dispute is out of the question. Its been more than 45 days.
2. I do believe that a lawyer could potentially get everyones money back. This is a clear cut case of fraud. Money was payed, to a middle man, with the promise of a product, through a supplier. While it can be argued that Tommy (I Have NOTHING personal against Tommy or his fiance) dropped the ball, is in prison, etc, blah blah blah. Bottom line, money was NOT payed to Innovative, they didn't have any clue that a group buy was even in the works.
3. While this lawyer could get everyone their money back, unless hes doing it for free, your probly going to lose it all anyway. Ideal situation? Sit it out (And i know its very easy for me to say this, having no money tied up in this at all) and hope Tommy surfaces soon. Hes done nothing in the past like this, and I think its pretty far-fetched to say that he planned this. Who in their right mind would go to the lengths of providing 600 dollar mounts to a company, just to make out with just over 3k?


I'm with everyone else, though. I'd be UP-FUCKING-SET if 300 dollars of my hard earned money went poof. I really do hope Tommy, or his fiance, makes good and returns everyones money, or gets you guys the mounts.


I'm putting this in both threads.

EDIT: No i'm not, the other one is locked. As will this one i imagine really soon.

['A20A3']

okay so it is past 45 days. my paypal was linked to my credit card. so i will dispute it with them. i'll be calling them in the morning. i have an entire record of all purchases so lets hope they'll be able to help. i spoke with my mother and the amount of people involved isn't enough for a class action lawsuit. so it's up to my credt card company, and then my personal lawyer. this is a case for fraud, and i was told this today when i spoke with him briefly. so there IS a case here.

personally, i dont' know tommy, and i have NOTHING against him. i just want what is rightfully MINE. either my money, or the mounts. thats what is fair. and the fact that it seems like tommy took all of our money, and Innovative had no idea that our group buy was in the works, that doesnt sit well with me. thats a plain case of fraud. we have been robbed. especially if dudes knew he was going to jail or whatever. that just proves to me even more that this was a scam. the money he got from all of us is more than likely spent, so it might have to come to a actual criminal lawsuit. and again, i'm going to keep this clean due to the fact that there is probably more to this situation that all of us know. BUT. that does not change the fact that all of us are owed. BIG TIME. if tommy knew he was possibly going to jail, it was EXTREMELY irresponsible of him to do this. knowing full well that this current situation was a very feasible ending. regardless, i dont give a damn if the money im owed goes to my lawyer. its PRINCIPLE. Harvey is not a dumbass, and he refuses to be taken advantage of like this. period. i work hard for my money and to think ANYONE is going to rob me out of what is rightfully mine is incredulous. i will NOT sit idle by any longer. i have for months, thinking that something positive would happen. i know how 3geez is with group buys, and i've been more than patient. i've had no communication with dudes, and it probably wont happen either. if im going to get my money, i have to take action. and that applies to ALL parties involved as well. you guys can hate me, bash me, taunt me, whatever helps you sleep at night, i dont care. but it will not stop me from going threw with what i need to do to make things right.

remember, i am not the only one that has been robbed here. i'm 22 and i dont make alot of money, but what i do make, is MINE. not this f_cking guys. i paid for goods, and have recieved nothing. and for that, i am pissed. sorry for the rant. but this just isnt fair, and let it be known that A20A3 wants what is rightfully his.

[markmdz89hatch]

Ok, I've stayed out of this and the other thread because its really none of my business. I was not involved in the group buy, I've not been cheated out of my money, but I have a few things to say.

1. Paypal dispute is out of the question. Its been more than 45 days.
2. I do believe that a lawyer could potentially get everyones money back. This is a clear cut case of fraud. Money was payed, to a middle man, with the promise of a product, through a supplier. While it can be argued that Tommy (I Have NOTHING personal against Tommy or his fiance) dropped the ball, is in prison, etc, blah blah blah. Bottom line, money was NOT payed to Innovative, they didn't have any clue that a group buy was even in the works.
3. While this lawyer could get everyone their money back, unless hes doing it for free, your probly going to lose it all anyway. Ideal situation? Sit it out (And i know its very easy for me to say this, having no money tied up in this at all) and hope Tommy surfaces soon. Hes done nothing in the past like this, and I think its pretty far-fetched to say that he planned this. Who in their right mind would go to the lengths of providing 600 dollar mounts to a company, just to make out with just over 3k?


I'm with everyone else, though. I'd be UP-FUCKING-SET if 300 dollars of my hard earned money went poof. I really do hope Tommy, or his fiance, makes good and returns everyones money, or gets you guys the mounts.


I'm putting this in both threads.

EDIT: No i'm not, the other one is locked. As will this one i imagine really soon.

Adam took the words right out of my mouth on that one.

Harvey, (et. al) I'm not going to try and talk you into or out of doing what you want to do. Honestly, I think you have all the right in the world to pursue this as you see fit. It's your money that you've worked hard for, and agreed, it's the principle beyond the dollar amount.

I'm honestly just torn on this. It's kept me up at night, and I've discussed it with my wife and a good friend of mine outside of this community because it just doesn't make sense.

Tommy may be a hot-tempered, shoot from the hip kind of guy, and he's been called the asshole before, and stirred up his fair share of controversy on this board in the past, and I don't think he'd argue that point (ok, yeah he would, but that's what he does). But he, just like you Harvey, and myself, Joe, Pearl, Yasu, Mike, A20A1Mikey, Steve, Rob, Johnny-O, Praveen, Maurice, Pickle, Juan, Dennis, Carot, Justin, Nate, Blazin, Hash, etc, etc, etc, Tommy is an OG too. He's been so excited and proud to build his animal. He owns 2 of these damn things. He's posted about, and researched, his setup on damn near every Honda forum there is (seriously, google his s/n and you'll see hits on so many different forums). 3Geez was/is his home away from home. Why would he steal from his own family?

Today I did google his s/n and he did pop up on so many other forums. As with this forum, he disappeared from everywhere online in early/mid June. All of those accounts have been idle since then.

Just like when our Aussie buddy was facing a HUGE financial problem where if he didn't come up with cash quick, his 3G was going to be sold out from under him, a lot of us (me not included, sorry) jumped in to help him out. By no means am I saying we should willingly want to help out someone that if nothing else, has proven he did at least fibb to us a bit. But I am saying that from the outside looking in (and I think I'm only capable of doing this because I don't have $$ shelled out on this), I am convinced that there's something more to this than just a random asshole that swindled a bunch of faceless names out of $300.

Bottom line is this is a big tainted shit-stain on our perfect record for group buys for this board. I feel bad for EVERYONE involved here and wish everyone the best of luck in whatever they choose to do to handle this situation.

['A20A3']

does anyone actually KNOW what has happened? like where he has gone?

has anyone spoke to him at all?

it's the communication here thats really grinding my gears. i've been patient, to say the least. but there hasn't been any communication that i'm aware of. and i'm not interested in going threw all the BS posts in the end of the dickhead mounts thread, lets get to the main course. does anyone know anything in depth about this?

['A20A3']

EDIT

i read the last 5 pages of the thread. the fact that he used his fiances' paypal account only further digs the hole. this was a scam from the beginning it looks like. oh well. i have printed all 20 whatever pages of that thread INCLUDING THE POSTS FROM HIS FIANCE.

it will be presented to my lawyer tomorrow when i see him. the evidence is mounting, and REGARDLESS of whatever life issues he is dealing with, the comments made regarding the refunds that COULD have been issued are all true. there was electronic records of who paid, and the amounts. AND IT WAS ON HER ACCOUNT WHICH SHE HAD EASY ACCESS TO. UNLESS, HE STARTED AN ACCOUNT UNDER HER NAME WITH THE INTENTION OF FRAUD. at any rate, the ENTIRE situation is insanely fishy. regardless of her involvement if the account was in her name, and she was aware of ANY MONEY IN IT THAT WAS TRANSFERRED FOR THIS PURCHASE, she is as good as guilty as well. and the lack of communication(especially mature communication) from them regarding this ordeal has only further showed me their possible ulterior motive. you know, the recession hits, and then jacking some good peeps for $4000 some starts to sound like a good idea to some i guess...

at any rate, i dont know the guy, or his fiance. and i dont hate either of them. but if they think that they are going to get away with this. well damn, they're are sorely mistaken. and they are going to see that. their life problems are not going to infringe mine and cause me problems. i have enough as it is. i'm just happy i have a kick-ass lawyer. and that i wont have to pay him nearly as much as some would have to pay a lawyer in a situation like this. gotta love family friends.

again, information is greatly appreciated.

and for the record, i will again state i have no problems with tommy, his fiance, or anyone else on here.

this is business, and i want my money. period.

i cant be more straight-up than that.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

.

[nswst8]

You really need to take a deep breathe here and relax. You are making allegations off presumptive speculations. Remember you have the burden of proof.

Making inflamatory statements "She is as guilty as well" will not help you in your efforts to recover your money. She tried to establish contact.

1. You will have to find the infomation to to file your claim. I hope you can search accurately. Filing claims with the wrong information can be costly.

2. I don't believe Tommy knew he was going to jail. (I'd like to know how you came to that conclusion)

3. This was a scam from the beginning, (the mounts are in production)

4. It's not $4000, it's just over $3000 give or take a few bucks.

5. And this is the one you really need to pay attention to. Slander, liable, making inflamatory accusations against someones character is grounds for countersuits that could reduce the amount of your award.

We are all concerned with the current situation. A number of people here have tried to find out what has happened. If you are going to persue this I caution you to restrain your emotions and think things through. Rationally!

Unexpected things happen to us all in life that forces us to detour. I'm sure all of you have suffered some of life's hard lessons.

[2ndGenGuy]

Not to be a dick here, but this is already just turning back into an extension of the old thread. Accusations are going back around again. Someone is going to get butthurt.

I'd like to remind everybody who is not participating in this particular action to please suppress your opinions regarding the matter. You've already had the chance to speak your mind, that other thread was open for MONTHS. It's come to a close, it's over, all the info is there that you need to know in the old thread. If posting like this continues, this WILL wind up a locked thread, because it will spiral back out of control. Please keep that in mind before posting...

[ghettogeddy]

ya like newest said the mounts are now pritty much available why would he go thorough all the trouble to get them to that stage to just run off
about 2weeks before he disaperd he refunded me my initial 100 because i felt it wrong for me to expect a full set of mounts for only 100

i was glad to help with the purchase of the origanl mounts and thats all he refunded with no prob
that was also a money that newest put up for me in advance and i paid back with a lil interest

why would someone that was going to take someones money in the first place even bother to refund me me 100 bucks

tommy is a hot tempered person
i can easly see "cause ive meet him in person and seen him interact with his kids" him doing something to land him in a place of correction to protect them no questions asked and any of yo0u that have kids are prolly the same way

him using his finances paypal i can see as well
as he just recently about a year or so ago stopped a home stereo retail business

but sadly this is all gona be he said she said till we get solid facts

if any one and i mean anyone has his first and last name i will gladly take my time to call local correction facility in a 100 mile radius or hi home town to see if hes on the books
i have no issue doing this
but no one seems to even have his full name

how do you draw a lawsuit against some you dont even tech know his full name?
not trying to be funny thats an honest question

[ghettogeddy]

sorry dp

[carotman]

Hmmm

They say a picture is worth a thousand words. This pretty much sums up my thoughts.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3763629208_c741d0f9bb.jpg


I would find out what REALLY happened to Tommy before doing anything...

[stat1K]

i suggest everyone that was defrauded fill out a formal complaint on this link.

http://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx

this is the site that the FBI links to when someone feels they have been defrauded through an internet scam.

['A20A3']

i have not slandered this man at all or his wife in any way. i have not denegrated them nor their character. so don't forget that. ive said multiple times i have no problems with either of them personally.

what i do have a problem with, is how this business has been conducted. regardless of what has happened in their lives, people are owed either money or the goods. yes, the deposit was non-refundable. BUT, we were promised goods in exchange for our money. and we have no goods. no communication, and what appears to be be weak excuses for why there has been no progress. yes at this point, youre right. nobodys knows what has happened to tommy. but when people try to call his house or whatever, and everyone is ignored? come on! total BS. im sure by now his wife has informed him of this situation. and has anyone heard form them? hmmm......interesting. the more i re-read posts, the more clear the picture is.

the 20+ pages of the thread that was locked were faxed to my attorney this morning. i should be hearing from him this afternoon.

and i STRONGLY suggest that all parties involved in this, file complaints and take the necessary actions. the more people that come forward against this man, the better chance we have of getting our money back.

and remember, for me, i dont care if i get my money back or not. this is principle, and i will not be stolen from and take like a bitch.


and yes, i am sorry. i am hyped about this. but i hate being stolen from.
and i will not take it lightly.

[stat1K]

it's completely understandable to feel this way harvey.

maybe you could provide your attorneys email or fax so that the parties involved can contact him with any information as well?

[nswst8]

Dude, you really need to take a chill pill. It's good that you are moving forward with your complaint. You are right, the more people who file a complaint the better your chances of having a resolution. That's a broad term.

You have a Lawyer as a friend of the family in your corner, is the person willing to assist others involved. Or will there be fees involved?

What are you offering exactly? Is the question I'm asking. You are ranting and not explaining your plan to bring this matter to a resolution.

This is my position. I have had frivolous allegations made against me and just want you all to know that there are two sides to every story and the only ones who win are the lawyers.

Unless you are proceeding with criminal complaints, the chances of you recovering any monies involved is arduous at best. You must file a small claims complaint (fees involved).

You must provide correct infomatin for complaint filing and serving of said complaint (fees involved).

You must attempted mediation prior to scheduling of court appearence date.

You must appear for court date present your evidence and receive your ruling/judgement (hopefully).

Now comes the hard part enforcing the judgement. You can request the courts assistance (fees involved).

You can be awarded court costs in your judgement, but the trick here is to be able to enforce the judgement.

A judgement is no guarantee that you will ever recover the monies involved. But you will have your judgement.

[stat1K]

phil why are you constantly trying to discourage others from seeing this through? we all know the likeliness of getting anything back is very slim, but a judgement is a judgement and it's not ok for someone to just walk away with 3000+ dollars. which is what i believe is happening here.

[carotman]

What makes you believe that he got away with the $3k?

We don't even know what happened to him.

Anyone drove to Tommy's house and knocked on the door?

[stat1K]

the fact that the money isn't in the paypal account of the fiance, the fact that innovative doesn't have the money, the fact that no one has mounts, and the fact that no one has heard from tommy since may... i'd say that's a pretty good reason to believe it to me.

i'm going to keep a lot of comments to myself in this thread. i want to see this get as resolved as possible and feel that i've contributed all that i should at this point.

[wprocomp]

What makes you believe that he got away with the $3k?

We don't even know what happened to him.

Anyone drove to Tommy's house and knocked on the door?

if calling the house cause his girl to become upset I can only imagine what going to the house would do,I as much as anyone else would like to see this resolved as best possible-as I had mentioned in the old thread he did use his wifes account BUT they had attached tom's account to the paypal account for this.

Like I have said before and I will say it it again

1.The money "simply" needs to be accounted for or tom's location needs to be found out.

2.According to Innovative they sent the original mounts back to tommy AS well as a "prototype" set of the innovative mounts for letting them use the Place Racing mounts for design awhile back.

3. Harvey you need to call innovative and talk to Tim,he delt with tommy personally-call your lawyer and ask him for a list of questions you should ask Tim about his dealings with him.

/sigh

[ghettogeddy]

the fact that the money isn't in the paypal account of the fiance,

there is no fact nor proof of that

[stat1K]

there is no fact nor proof of that

then what would be her apprehension to refunding the money?

there's also no proof to the contrary.

me and you've been through this before... you can defend all you want but the fact of the matter is no one has money or the mounts... so what about that?

[ghettogeddy]

then what would be her apprehension to refunding the money?

there's also no proof to the contrary.

me and you've been through this before... you can defend all you want but the fact of the matter is no one has money or the mounts... so what about that?

once again she had nothing to do with the group buy besides her account she dosnt know how is owed what
because im pretty sure not everyone is owed the same amount as stated before i would not want my gf doing it cause im sure it would be done wrong

i am going to send an email to his fiancée explaining the situation cause apparently none of you have and we will see if anything happens

[stat1K]

once again she had nothing to do with the group buy besides her account she dosnt know how is owed what
because im pretty sure not everyone is owed the same amount as stated before i would not want my gf doing it cause im sure it would be done wrong

i am going to send an email to his fiancée explaining the situation cause apparently none of you have and we will see if anything happens

if her account was used she is part of this. plain and simple.

as for what people are owed; if someone pays it's very simple to go into the transaction and click "ISSUE REFUND."

as for the email please do as i was under the impression that she didn't want anyone to contact nor was she returning any sort of contact from the members. please if you get a response i'm sure it would be very helpful to everyone involved.

[ghettogeddy]

if her account was used she is part of this. plain and simple.

as for what people are owed; if someone pays it's very simple to go into the transaction and click "ISSUE REFUND."

as for the email please do as i was under the impression that she didn't want anyone to contact nor was she returning any sort of contact from the members. please if you get a response i'm sure it would be very helpful to everyone involved.

email has been sent
awaiting response

and it wasent that she did not want to be contacted she just did not want here contact info on display

[nswst8]

phil why are you constantly trying to discourage others from seeing this through? we all know the likeliness of getting anything back is very slim, but a judgement is a judgement and it's not ok for someone to just walk away with 3000+ dollars. which is what i believe is happening here.

I am not trying to discourage anyone from persuing their complaint. I just want to help inform everyone of what the process may be like.

I want everyone to get their money and/or mounts.

I am asking A20A3 a valid question about his lawyers position. And is it possible for others to be represented. I have no interest in persuing legal action until I know for sure a fraud has been committed.

I hear alot of ranting again. And from my experience ranting is only inciting irrational action. I've been thru a few of these. On both sides of the fence.

The one thing I see is that we bear the burden of proof. And this can get costly. And in my opinion no one has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that a fraud has been committed.

I have spent 10s of thousands of dollars on lawyers in my life thus far, they have a purpose but they always get paid first.

Now if A203As attorney has a investigator this will be a benefit as it will take an investigator to locate Tommy. His attorney can write a letter to Tommy's fiancee for this information. He might even have to threaten legal action to obtain this information. An investigator can obtain this info faster than attorneys.

[stat1K]

email has been sent
awaiting response

and it wasent that she did not want to be contacted she just did not want here contact info on display

thank you geddy.

[ghettogeddy]

thank you geddy.

no prob

['A20A3']

okay everydbody just be cool. keep this thread as calm as possible please. we got this. i will discuss with my lawyer about getting other parties involved. i have no idea if there would be fees but i can do my best.

but yes. we need to continue contacting WHOEVER we can. his fiance if necessary. it doesnt matter what problems they are having, thats not OUR problem. THEY have caused US a problem, and thats what the point here is. they arent out anything, and we're out 3000+ dollars. so, in order for this to have a resolve, FIRST we need to establish contact. OR at least make SEVERAL DOCUMENTED ATTEMPTS. so, SAVE ALL YOUR EMAILS.

again, lets keep it clean guys.

and phil isnt dicouraging, he is merely pointing out the truth. and thats fine.

But again i will say, this is PRINCIPLE. we must not sit idly by an allow this to happen. who knows? maybe something positive will come out of this through our persistent attempts to contact parties involved.

yes, someone does need to go to the house. period. if i have to take vacation time from work and fly out to where ever, i will. but if there is someone close to the area, and knows him/where he lives, go out there. talk to someone at that house, get me a mailing address so i will be able to send papers to the house regarding this. i will need a mailing address for my attorney for him to send certified mail to them.

regardless we can get a resolve, even if it isnt monetary. we will at least have the resolve of knowing that we didnt let someone rob us of our hard-earned money.

lets start with working on communication attempts with tommy/fiance of tommy. either e-mail, telephone, or in person.

i appreciate everyones support on this. and i thank you 3geez family.

[stat1K]

the mailing address i believe you should have on your paypal account. as well as i believe a phone number and his fiance's name and email.

[nswst8]

okay everydbody just be cool. keep this thread as calm as possible please. we got this. i will discuss with my lawyer about getting other parties involved. i have no idea if there would be fees but i can do my best.

but yes. we need to continue contacting WHOEVER we can. his fiance if necessary. it doesnt matter what problems they are having, thats not OUR problem. THEY have caused US a problem, and thats what the point here is. they arent out anything, and we're out 3000+ dollars. so, in order for this to have a resolve, FIRST we need to establish contact. OR at least make SEVERAL DOCUMENTED ATTEMPTS. so, SAVE ALL YOUR EMAILS.

again, lets keep it clean guys.

and phil isnt dicouraging, he is merely pointing out the truth. and thats fine.

But again i will say, this is PRINCIPLE. we must not sit idly by an allow this to happen. who knows? maybe something positive will come out of this through our persistent attempts to contact parties involved.

yes, someone does need to go to the house. period. if i have to take vacation time from work and fly out to where ever, i will. but if there is someone close to the area, and knows him/where he lives, go out there. talk to someone at that house, get me a mailing address so i will be able to send papers to the house regarding this. i will need a mailing address for my attorney for him to send certified mail to them.

regardless we can get a resolve, even if it isnt monetary. we will at least have the resolve of knowing that we didnt let someone rob us of our hard-earned money.

lets start with working on communication attempts with tommy/fiance of tommy. either e-mail, telephone, or in person.

i appreciate everyones support on this. and i thank you 3geez family.

Now you are beginning to think rationally. Good job.

(I'm so proud wait I think I'm feeling a tear) Joke guys. LAUGH!

[89T]

I have pm'd tommy back and forth since the begining. From when the P.R. mounts were on ebay. Tommy was very passionate in getting the mounts bought, copied and available for the 3geez community. I commend him for doing exactly that.

I feel that he has been honest and up front with everyone until we lost contact with him due to unforeseen circumstances. After talking with his fiancé I feel he is in a position to not be able to respond to any calls, pm's even e-mail... So i'll wait for him to return and iron the situation out. It shouldn't be to much longer.

[2oodoor]

Since I have been reading the forum almost daily I sort of know this was not a scandal. I also know why the person of topic did not use his name on paypal. There is a very good reason for this,and it has nothing to do with the GB or anyone on the board being duped.
I am not going to state this reason because I respect TWOLOUD'S privacy and know how it is.
I will say again, this GB is young, we're only in month 9 from it even being an idea.
Things happen in our lives that dont allow us to stay on our projects 24/7/365 We have familys, jobs, school, and health issues, and yes legal and financial issues. So yes the progress on this has been delayed, big F'n deal. It doenst mean it was given up on.
There are reasons for some of the steps taken here, and just because you do not know them or understand the business plan does not mean you were duped. I am 100 percent sure it was structured for the better of 3gen entheusists, and not to cause financial burden to any one person here.

[stat1K]

edit roodoo's first post, it's not a joke, i was being seious.

['A20A3']

well i put in for a group buy, and i have ZERO product, ZERO refund, and ZERO communication.

soo...i would like my refund so i can personally call Innovative and get my set of mounts. i DO NOT have another $300 to get them, this tommy character has my money. and remember, the longer we wait, if it does turn out to be a scam, none of us will get anything out of it, or be able to file charges due to the statue of limitations. so we cannot wait around too long for this to 'iron itself out'.

[wprocomp]

I am not here to accuse of scandals yet-what makes this entire thing a mess is the fact that we do NOT know when tommy will be back and why money was never paid for the mounts to be sent to us on the supposed september time frame.

I am glad more than a few people can vouch for tommy theres nothing wrong with that,but 90% of the people who bought these mounts do NOT know him-so you can't expect all of us to sit by and take things lightly,if this dude is still gone by this time next year are we supposed to base our trust on this and wait around because he's a "trusted longtime member and e-friends with a few people"-I seriously hope not. If you have knowledge that he will be back soon or a year from now just PM the GB people and give them a headsup on what this situation is so we can stop this bickering and accusations that could have been prevented long ago and actually base this entire mess on something solid.

['A20A3']

PS thank you mark for helping to keep it clean in here. +1 to you

['A20A3']

I am not here to accuse of scandals yet-what makes this entire thing a mess is the fact that we do NOT know when tommy will be back and why money was never paid for the mounts to be sent to us on the supposed september time frame.

I am glad more than a few people can vouch for tommy theres nothing wrong with that,but 90% of the people who bought these mounts do NOT know him-so you can't expect all of us to sit by and take things lightly,if this dude is still gone by this time next year are we supposed to base our trust on this and wait around because he's a "trusted longtime member and e-friends with a few people"-I seriously hope not. If you have knowledge that he will be back soon or a year from now just PM the GB people and give them a headsup on what this situation is so we can stop this bickering and accusations that could have been prevented long ago and actually base this entire mess on something solid.


DITTO. somebody get something solid on this!

[nswst8]

well i put in for a group buy, and i have ZERO product, ZERO refund, and ZERO communication.

soo...i would like my refund so i can personally call Innovative and get my set of mounts. i DO NOT have another $300 to get them, this tommy character has my money. and remember, the longer we wait, if it does turn out to be a scam, none of us will get anything out of it, or be able to file charges due to the statue of limitations. so we cannot wait around too long for this to 'iron itself out'.

Your biggest problem here is information. You have no personal information on Tommy and it is going to take an investigator and/or money to find that information.

I would suggest that in the future that certain information be taken by the moderators for persons interested in oganizing groupbuys on this forum in the future.

Criminal and civil statues apply here. Criminal if you are trying to seek justice in the aspect of jail time. Not sure of the time statue here.

Civil if you are trying to seek monitary compensation. Not sure of California Statues but it should be in the area of 5-7 years in which to file in small claims.

['A20A3']

thank you phil. good info there. okay so there is some time. thats good to hear. i'm out here in Maryland so that why i was unsure of the statues on that.

and as far as that moderator-group buy thing. that is the best idea ever. then there would be concrete ways of handling discrepancies such as this.

has anyone made any contact yet?

['A20A3']

i will keep bumping this thread to the top at least once a day, in the hope that if tommy lurks on or his fiance does, they will see it and hopefully responds. unless someone hits it off with a sticky....

either way i really want to keep it very clearly visible to all 3geezers.



and as of the current situation, i would like to RIGOROUSLY continue to try to make contact, BEFORE going through with litigation.

['A20A3']

WHOEVER has the number of tommy/fiance that has been called before, please PM it to me. it's not in my paypal. i couldn't find a adress either. it looks like it was removed. hmmmmm....i wonder why?

PLEASE HELP!

[ghettogeddy]

WHOEVER has the number of tommy/fiance that has been called before, please PM it to me. it's not in my paypal. i couldn't find a adress either. it looks like it was removed. hmmmmm....i wonder why?

PLEASE HELP!

it was never on mine eather but it does show in others so idk i had it but i did not save it

[stat1K]

ask wprocomp i'm sure he has it saved.

[Rendon LX-i]

Jesus crist....i cant belive this. I would of just waited....but im going to stay out of this..i complety understand the situation here. dont get me wrong but i dont think your going to get SHIT back......personally i would just wait it out but THATS me like i told you guys before. BUT i would try to get ahold of his wife for his full name to call him at the jail he was placed im sure you can get a name some how some place. IF you REALLY need the money you can recieve it BY contacting he or she...but doing all this shit is like FUCK...........lets say im in jail and i get out and i see a big lawsuit against me i would be like WTF...i would blow up and wouldnt do shit for any of you guys for doing what you did......like the few that said CHILL im with them......

Noting more to say. but GOOD LUCK

[LX-incredible]

Jesus crist....i cant belive this. I would of just waited....but im going to stay out of this..i complety understand the situation here. dont get me wrong but i dont think your going to get SHIT back......personally i would just wait it out but THATS me like i told you guys before. BUT i would try to get ahold of his wife for his full name to call him at the jail he was placed im sure you can get a name some how some place. IF you REALLY need the money you can recieve it BY contacting he or she...but doing all this shit is like FUCK...........lets say im in jail and i get out and i see a big lawsuit against me i would be like WTF...i would blow up and wouldnt do shit for any of you guys for doing what you did......like the few that said CHILL im with them......

Noting more to say. but GOOD LUCK

Tell you what, if you're so confident that the guy is coming through, you can buy one or both of my positions in the group buy. Otherwise keep it to yourself.

[LX-incredible]

WHOEVER has the number of tommy/fiance that has been called before, please PM it to me. it's not in my paypal. i couldn't find a adress either. it looks like it was removed. hmmmmm....i wonder why?

PLEASE HELP!

It was removed from their paypal by someone who has access to the account after it was posted on here. I have it saved if you need it.

[ghettogeddy]

It was removed from their paypal by someone who has access to the account after it was posted on here. I have it saved if you need it.

to be honest can you blame her she was getting threating calls after it was posted

[LX-incredible]

Who was threatening her? Wasn't me.

I wasn't saying it was her anyway, just someone with access to the account. For all we know it's tommy, if that's even his name. He's done an excellent job of not leaving any information behind, we don't even know his full name.

[ghettogeddy]

Who was threatening her? Wasn't me.

I wasn't saying it was her anyway, just someone with access to the account. For all we know it's tommy, if that's even his name. He's done an excellent job of not leaving any information behind, we don't even know his full name.

ive meet him before back in 07 known him scenes
always went by tommy

idk if someone how has passion for the 3g like he does would go through that much lies for 3k lol sound sa bit far fetched to me

and i called my self and his fiancée answered its the number for the apartment complex he manges

[ghettogeddy]

This is the reply we gotafter i called


this is tommy fiance a few of you have called looking for tommy he is not here he been gone for over a month and he wont be back for a few more month's do to a family problem with his ex's new husband and tommy kids all i can say is tempers were lost and now he is paying the price for it he is not trying to rip anyone off on here where he at his hands are tied and i only get to talk to him once a month so as soon as he get's back i am sure everything will get back on track this group buy was his thing so i have no idea whats going on with it but i will ask him next time he calls me. I am sorry if this has inconvenience anyone and i am sorry i did not let anyone know on here but ive been busy working and taking care of my kids it is hard when it's just one.t.s.

a day or 2 later


i was willing to help and work with you guys on this until i hear from tommy and get the answer's your looking for now you guys have fucked that up by putting my name and address on the internet for every sicko to see and put my family in danger. Until my name and address is totally removed from public vewing i will not help or talk to any of you. Ps thanks for posting my number i love getting crank call's every two minutes all night long

what do you expect her to do

[LX-incredible]

what do you expect her to do

Issue refunds from her account.

[stat1K]

yep it's as simple as a button click... so if she "doesn't" know who and what to pay, it's as simple as going back 60-90 days and seeing a lot of 305's show up... i'm sure there are even comments that say group buy or 3geez.com...

[ghettogeddy]

thats your opinion
mine is if i was in tommys "shoes"
i wouldn't want my gf or wife or anyone to fuck with it till i got back

and to be honest put your self in his shoes "you have to go with the fact that he might be in jail on this one"

if all you had was one phone call a month would this be the most important thing during that phone call " less then a 30 min call i believe"

doubtful

[nswst8]

She had already stated that she was going to discuss this with Tommy when she got to talk to him. I don't believe she will make a move without involving Tommy. (I don't blame her).

['A20A3']

yeah im with homie on this. if you guys are so comfortable waiting, buy my spot from me. i want my money back. OR. COMMUNICATION!

but yes, if you have the phone #, please please please PM it to me.

i'm going to call and very politely ask what is going on, even if i have to leave a message with my phone number, its okay. because if my call is never returned, i know where they stand. it will be clear.

again, THEIR problems, are not MY problems, therefore, they shouldnt be causing ME problems.

i want what is rightfully MINE, and if you guys dont like it, i dont really think i could care any less about it. this is a ridiculous situation. all any of us want is communication from these people, and we have nothing. they even covered their tracks by making it next to impossible to reach them. if that doesnt smell like bullshit, i dont know what does.

['A20A3']

"i was willing to help and work with you guys on this until i hear from tommy and get the answer's your looking for now you guys have fucked that up by putting my name and address on the internet for every sicko to see and put my family in danger. Until my name and address is totally removed from public vewing i will not help or talk to any of you. Ps thanks for posting my number i love getting crank call's every two minutes all night long"



well the info is gone, have we heard a response...? hmmmmmmmmmmmm :rly:


and PS every person, everyday, regardless of how many damn kids they have, has AT LEAST 5 MINUTES, to communicate with people. especially when the people are shareholders in a group buy that is looking like a ripoff. if they really gave a fuck about any of us and what position WE are in, then they would do something about it.

[stat1K]

agreed harvey.

I say call innovative and talk to tim and explain to him the situation to see what was ever ironed out by "tommy." See if any of the details match what was said in the thread. I've tried to email Tim but he's a busy guy and I only get responses about 2 weeks after I send them. So I think calling would serve much better.

[nswst8]

Finding it difficult to proceed with litigation?

Not everyone here believes a fruad has been committed.

[nswst8]

yeah im with homie on this. if you guys are so comfortable waiting, buy my spot from me. i want my money back. OR. COMMUNICATION!

but yes, if you have the phone #, please please please PM it to me.

i'm going to call and very politely ask what is going on, even if i have to leave a message with my phone number, its okay. because if my call is never returned, i know where they stand. it will be clear.

again, THEIR problems, are not MY problems, therefore, they shouldnt be causing ME problems.

i want what is rightfully MINE, and if you guys dont like it, i dont really think i could care any less about it. this is a ridiculous situation. all any of us want is communication from these people, and we have nothing. they even covered their tracks by making it next to impossible to reach them. if that doesnt smell like bullshit, i dont know what does.

When you started it was about principle not money, what has changed?

I'll buy your spot for .25 cents on the dollar and give you a 120 day buy back option for a 10% fee.

[stat1K]

hey phil, you made your own thread, why not stay out of this one? if so many people don't believe a fraud has happened why are there so many posts in this one and only 2 in yours?

i'll still go back to how when wprocomp talked to innovative they said there was no group buy, yet tommy maintained in the mount thread that they were just making some changes before running the parts... wouldn't innovative have a whole bunch of sets ready for those involved? i'll stick to this detail for all the proof i need.

[nswst8]

hey phil, you made your own thread, why not stay out of this one? if so many people don't believe a fraud has happened why are there so many posts in this one and only 2 in yours?

i'll still go back to how when wprocomp talked to innovative they said there was no group buy, yet tommy maintained in the mount thread that they were just making some changes before running the parts... wouldn't innovative have a whole bunch of sets ready for those involved? i'll stick to this detail for all the proof i need.

I made him an offer to buy his spot.

It's a good thing the legal system doesn't work according to your standards.

[2oodoor]

stat1k you seem to thrive on this "misfortune " as you see it is one, zup wit dit you're cracking me up

[ghettogeddy]

When you started it was about principle not money, what has changed?

I'll buy your spot for .25 cents on the dollar and give you a 120 day buy back option for a 10% fee.

thats actualyl a good deal lol
dosent seem like alot

76 bucks plus if tommy dose come back you can buy your spot back within 3 months for 8 bucks. thats more than any of you are gona get with a lawyer


sorry i had to edit i got my numbers mixxed lol

[wprocomp]

[QUOTE=stat1K;973720}
i'll still go back to how when wprocomp talked to innovative they said there was no group buy, yet tommy maintained in the mount thread that they were just making some changes before running the parts... wouldn't innovative have a whole bunch of sets ready for those involved? i'll stick to this detail for all the proof i need.[/QUOTE]

Tim did tell me tommy was interested in buying multiple sets of mounts but he never heard back from him on how many he wanted so I do believe there was talk of getting a GB going,Tim also told me that he never told him a bulk price because tommy was not a dealer with an account and he will not release prices unless you write up a contract with them to do so.

What Tim told me in a nutshell was

1.They already had an accord from another local customer that they where working on designing mounts for before tommy ever contacted them.

2.Tommy just happened to call at the right time and they made an agreement to let innovative copy/reproduce the Place racing mounts-for allowing them to do so the original Place Racing mounts where sent back to him as well as set of the innovative mounts.

if he's lying to me I don't really know why he would or what his deal is but nobody else has yet to contact innovative so this is all we have to go on unfortunately.

We have people on both side of the fence on this and some standing right in the middle,I myself am currently in the middle hoping this will pan out and everyone gets there mounts BUT we have to prepare our-self's in case this does not in fact get resolved within a reasonable period of time-you guys have to understand this. This isn't a huge class-action lawsuit on the verge of happening,it's simply concerned buyers wanting there money or products accounted for in some way shape or form.

[nswst8]

This is the way I see it.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong. Yet I do have a recourse. Litigation. I have plenty of time to recoupe my monies invested. And yours as well. Its not an easy solution yet it is a solution that can be implimented if nessasary.

In the end, if this is the nessasary course of action, there are a number of ways to persue it. This is why I am not concerned at this point in time.

There is a trail and I have followed it, I have found what I was looking for and am perfectly satisfied in being patient at this time.

[stat1K]

I've prepared a list of concerns based on the original mount thread that i would like everyone to be aware of.

First:

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=925270&postcount=115

In this post he clearly states pricing. Now from what Tim told wprocomp is that he never told tommy a bulk price... so where did these prices come from?

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=925487&postcount=125

This post kind of clears up where he got a price from, if they told him a specific price the plan could have been he will pay that price times however many people, but since the other post said 275 for 50+ etc, where did he get that price?

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=925988&postcount=136

In this post he says that Innovative wants the money in full, now if Tim said he never gave tommy prices why would he want the money in full?

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=927336&postcount=149

This one says that it's going to be a one off run, I believe what happened was due to the poor turnout it became that they were going to produce them? But Tommy also maintained this fact for a while to get more people involved.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=928269&postcount=171

Here he says he didn't have a date for final payment.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=935707&postcount=269

On 3-11 he has pictures of the mounts from Innovative.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=939629&postcount=303

on 3-26 he closes the GB.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=946920&postcount=332

Here is where the whole september deadline came about. He says he only got 13 orders so Innovative was going to produce the mounts and keep the rights. And STARTING SEPTEMBER THEY WILL BE AVAILABLE TO EVERYONE. Now this is one of my major problems. Everyone seemed to think that meant the group buy would be done in September, but if 3geez had first run why wouldn't it be done before everyone else could purchase their mounts?

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showpost.php?p=955352&postcount=359

Here it is 3 months after the last post and he says he doesn't have any updates. Shortly after this he disappeared.


So if money was due in March and Innovative never gave him pricing for multiple sets yet in post 332 he states that he had to agree to a deal with innovative due to only 13 sets being able to be purchased why would Tim lie and say that he never gave Tommy pricing nor did he ever get money for multiple sets of mounts? Why also would Tommy set a deadline if this never happened. And lastly why would Tommy say that 3 months after he collected money he still had no new information regarding it?

[nswst8]

If Tim at innovative will only deal with a bonafied dealer then it is possible Tommy was trying to get things in order to supply Tim with a business licence or tax ID number.

Tommy from what I understand was an owner/operator of an audio shop which leads me to believe that Tommy was trying to get back into the game.

Again, I understand your concern. At this point it is all just speculation and allegations. If it was a scam then Tommy would have taken more money. Again the mounts are in production. Tommy was working some angle as we all do in the business.

[stat1K]

yeah except when you paid tommy for stuff from his "audio shop" on ebay it went into his fiance's paypal still... and you're not tommy, how do you know he would have taken more money?

yeah, "working an angle" sounds just like you alright.

[nswst8]

yeah except when you paid tommy for stuff from his "audio shop" on ebay it went into his fiance's paypal still... and you're not tommy, how do you know he would have taken more money?

yeah, "working an angle" sounds just like you alright.

Are we upset? Poor baby. Get over it.

I know because I offered it to him. Read the thread.

[markmdz89hatch]

ok ok, honestly minus the last mini digs, you guys have been playing nice. haha, j/k. But seriously, Phil, I see your point about them facing many obstacles with the legal avenues of getting their money back. ...but Harvey, you do seem very determined, and determination usually gets you somewhere, so I wish you luck in whatever you do.

Statik, that's awesome that you drudged your way through that thread and really pulled out the key points. I did the same thing, but didn't go so far as you did in actually posting and referencing posts in that original thread. That should definitely help out Harvey (any anyone else that wants to go his route).

wprocomp --> Tim and I have spoken a couple of times as well, and everything you posted is EXACTLY what I found out as well.

It's pure speculation, but a minor sticking point for Tommy if he was going to try and do what Phil was saying (getting established as a dealer for Innovative), is this group buy. Not because he's out of communication for whatever reason, and that's stirring things up, but because of the points that Stat1k touched on with saying one thing and come to find out, it wasn't done exactly as stated. Not saying it was terrible business (because in a business deal, some details are sometimes left out if the coordinator of a deal chooses to do so), but because those minor differences were highlighted and made known to Innovative by our inquiry's about their knowledge of a group buy. Because of that, Innovative may not want to extend that 'dealer' right to Tommy. ...but I think it will really show Tommy's dedication to this buy, and desire to make things right, if he comes and clears things up once he's back in action.

[markmdz89hatch]

on another note, I know Harvey opened the door by asking if someone wanted to buy him out if they were willing (and confident that it would work out) to wait for Tommy to make good on this, but let's keep any offers to him in PM instead of the thread.

[nswst8]

dully noted. I'm headed to Vegas.

[blazin3gen]

first of all yea i would be pist too if i hadnt got my money or my shit BUT

hearing from his fiance should let u guys know that he didnt rip u off. I dont know this dude ive never met em, but i know hes a die hard 3rd gen dude and for him to do all this work to rip u off.. i dont think so... somethin happen now dudes in jail and he cant do shit about it. Same shit coulda happen to you. btw this isnt his fiance's problem. her name isnt tommy. she obviously is tryin to help so some of u need to chill and stop that high school blame game shit. prank calling... common....

too all the GB members im pretty shure he didnt intend to rip u off shit just happened that was out of his reach.

[stat1K]

you don't understand that her paypal was used, so it is her problem. that's like if you started selling drugs but you had someone pay your brother... guess what your brother is now implicated.

and barring a mass conspiracy i couldn't be sent to jail so the same shit couldn't happen to me. now if he were hospitalized i'd have some empathy, but if he's in jail there is probably just cause and again i have to wonder why he was so eager to have people pay in advance if he was never told a price. seems to me like he picked a number, an amount of money he needed and went for it. What would you all be saying if the group buy turned out as he planned, 50+ people at 275+10 for shipping... $14250? Is that amount of money worth running away with?

the point is often times crimes are committed based on oppurtunity not the amount of money you get away with. I work in the banking industry and see branches get robbed all the time. We've had around 20+ robberies this year... wanna take a shot as to how much the average amount of money taken is? it's around 3500 dollars.

['A20A3']

times are hard man. the recession hits, and the good ol 'rob and steal' kicks in. oh well, its neither here nor there.

AGAIN, i need CONTACT INFO. if ANYONE has a phone number or a mailing address, I NEED IT PLEASE.

[MessyHonda]

that guy is a punk i found out the engine he sold me has a spun bearing....i feel ripped off too

[wprocomp]

so you met tommy I assume? did he tell you it was hurt or had low oil press?

[stat1K]

that guy is a punk i found out the engine he sold me has a spun bearing....i feel ripped off too

x2 what's this all about?

[2oodoor]

Messy , you did not get ripped...wtf you got a deal. Spun bearing isnt shit, you could have a spun bearing in a running motor and not know it... depends on circumstances. Eventually it will rear its ugly head though.
Replace the bearings and check the rods, those were H series wernt they?

If you knew what the F about motors you should have expected such as many times as it blew HG and blow off got stuck closed as well. Pay Fn attention people. shit

[w261w261]

Well, there's a lot of history here that I'm not part of, so I'm kind of limited to a couple of gratuitous comments:

1. After the smoke clears on this, it seems like we have a source for the motor mounts, clearing up what has been a major problem for doing a popular swap. If we had the correct half shafts and a under-motor piece, we'd be golden? Yes? So even though it's bad right now for those people who are hanging, ultimately it looks good for the group. Maybe anyone buying a set of mounts from now on could donate an extra $$ into a fund to partially compensate those who (might have) lost their money.

2. I guess the person who is missing in action was a pretty active participator, so I understand the reluctance of many to criticize him before all the facts are known. But, he took the money, and he's disappeared. This by itself is at best a severe case of bad manners, and at worst is inexcusable. You can hardly blame people for thinking the worst. This woman who wrote the cryptic message owes the people who put up their money a lot more explanation. Even people in jail can communicate with the outside *if they want to*.

[stat1K]

Messy , you did not get ripped...wtf you got a deal. Spun bearing isnt shit, you could have a spun bearing in a running motor and not know it... depends on circumstances. Eventually it will rear its ugly head though.
Replace the bearings and check the rods, those were H series wernt they?

If you knew what the F about motors you should have expected such as many times as it blew HG and blow off got stuck closed as well. Pay Fn attention people. shit

... wow.

[ghettogeddy]

... wow.

whats so wow a spun bearing isent the end of the world lol

anyways i haven't received an email i dont know if its cause its not a primary email or cause they dont check it at all or maybe they deleted my messages
i sent 2 of the same one, aether way it would be time for 'A20A3' to get a hold of the phone number and make a phone call say you will seek legal action if the money isent paid back

its a sad state of affairs, i still dont think he ran off with the cash but with out proof i cant fight that and with 0 communication for aether of them now theres not much you can do. i say make the phone call if she dosent want to comply from there your hands are tied with legal action, like newest said you prolly wont get anything back money wise but you will get the satisfaction i guess that you made someones life more miserable (assuming the story she told is true)

[2oodoor]

Geddy that speaks volumes of your charactor, much respect man. That was awesome.


Messy, I apologize for the dig, but I didnt see it coming, you jumping in the hating with an unrelated matter. Makes no sense. :uh:

Stat1k, you did not lose any money did you? didnt you get your money back first? I am not sure if I am understanding your position, clarifY? thanks

[LX-incredible]

whats so wow a spun bearing isent the end of the world lol

anyways i haven't received an email i dont know if its cause its not a primary email or cause they dont check it at all or maybe they deleted my messages
i sent 2 of the same one, aether way it would be time for 'A20A3' to get a hold of the phone number and make a phone call say you will seek legal action if the money isent paid back

its a sad state of affairs, i still dont think he ran off with the cash but with out proof i cant fight that and with 0 communication for aether of them now theres not much you can do. i say make the phone call if she dosent want to comply from there your hands are tied with legal action, like newest said you prolly wont get anything back money wise but you will get the satisfaction i guess that you made someones life more miserable (assuming the story she told is true)

I believe you are being ignored, but thanks for trying.

The ebay account he was using has been renamed with recent activity. Doesn't really prove that he's still around, just that someone has access to the paypal and wants to be sneaky about it.

[stat1K]

Geddy that speaks volumes of your charactor, much respect man. That was awesome.


Messy, I apologize for the dig, but I didnt see it coming, you jumping in the hating with an unrelated matter. Makes no sense. :uh:

Stat1k, you did not lose any money did you? didnt you get your money back first? I am not sure if I am understanding your position, clarifY? thanks

umm, what's so wow about it is that you people will defend someone until the end of time. first the dude peace's with everyone's money, "he's probably just in prison." "i'm sure he'll make it right!"

then messy comes on with a spun rod bearing in a motor that apparently he wasn't told of, "shit happens dude you should have known better when you bought that bunk ass motor..."

that's where wow comes from.

as for my position in all of this roodoo, i don't like seeing people get screwed, especially not my friend, one of the only people on this board that knows these cars fucking backwards and forwards and helps people all day long. it's even more annoying that you guys are defending the person doing the screwing. especially when the shit is so blatant in my eyes. hell even the posts by "tommy's fiance" are verrrrrry reminiscent of his own typing and speaking style. you could say, "oh they're close so of course they probably sound or type the same." to which i would call BS like i've done on this whole situation.

I guess i really just don't understand why someone has a legitimate beef and posts it and you fuckers feel it necessary to defend him. If he wants to be defended he should come in here and do it himself.

[stat1K]

better yet, you want to type defenses for him, stick to THIS fucking thread: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70210

[2oodoor]

No stat!k, you've had a negative swag to each and every detail concern this GB from the beginning. I cant help but make the same type swag towards your perspective in recalling the facts here. We did see you get booted (to put it nicely)
That said, I do not hold any of this personal against you either. You are not helping anyone here get their parts or money, in fact you could be hindering it who's to say.
I understand **********'s position as well, trust me. And true what you said about him, very knowledgeable and willing to share it. I hope he gets satisfactory results/or refund with his investment.
I am not defending anyone here, only maintaining hopes that this will turn out well for all.
You or anyone else that bumps the thread with blasting another member, I can't help but look at it and see unfair deflamation without solid proof either way, sooooo yes I am going to post something in attempt to descalate the BS.
The direction I see some of this being pushed is counterproductive to the objective. Permenant personal loss has not been proven: delay of game true and unfortunate but crime in progress, I would like to hold doubt to that.

[Civic Accord Honda]

:jaw: holy shit...:inout:

[blazin3gen]

umm, what's so wow about it is that you people will defend someone until the end of time. first the dude peace's with everyone's money, "he's probably just in prison." "i'm sure he'll make it right!"

then messy comes on with a spun rod bearing in a motor that apparently he wasn't told of, "shit happens dude you should have known better when you bought that bunk ass motor..."

that's where wow comes from.

as for my position in all of this roodoo, i don't like seeing people get screwed, especially not my friend, one of the only people on this board that knows these cars fucking backwards and forwards and helps people all day long. it's even more annoying that you guys are defending the person doing the screwing. especially when the shit is so blatant in my eyes. hell even the posts by "tommy's fiance" are verrrrrry reminiscent of his own typing and speaking style. you could say, "oh they're close so of course they probably sound or type the same." to which i would call BS like i've done on this whole situation.

I guess i really just don't understand why someone has a legitimate beef and posts it and you fuckers feel it necessary to defend him. If he wants to be defended he should come in here and do it himself.


i dont think u can access the computer from jail:uh:

[blazin3gen]

No stat!k, you've had a negative swag to each and every detail concern this GB from the beginning. I cant help but make the same type swag towards your perspective in recalling the facts here. We did see you get booted (to put it nicely)
That said, I do not hold any of this personal against you either. You are not helping anyone here get their parts or money, in fact you could be hindering it who's to say.
I understand **********'s position as well, trust me. And true what you said about him, very knowledgeable and willing to share it. I hope he gets satisfactory results/or refund with his investment.
I am not defending anyone here, only maintaining hopes that this will turn out well for all.
You or anyone else that bumps the thread with blasting another member, I can't help but look at it and see unfair deflamation without solid proof either way, sooooo yes I am going to post something in attempt to descalate the BS.
The direction I see some of this being pushed is counterproductive to the objective. Permenant personal loss has not been proven: delay of game true and unfortunate but crime in progress, I would like to hold doubt to that.


x2

[stat1K]

i dont think u can access the computer from jail:uh:

so you know he's in jail? if you have any details that we don't have aside from assumptions please, by all means, share them, i'm all ears.

[ghettogeddy]

so you know he's in jail? if you have any details that we don't have aside from assumptions please, by all means, share them, i'm all ears.

see the thing there is all you have are assumptions hes not. at least theres a post by someone close to him that somewhat says that hes in jail but we have nothing besides assumptions to support the fact that he ran off or is in jail.


see this is the argument, he said she said. no one has solid proof. and i think from here on out whether your for or against tommy the allegations should just be left alone , there not help anything and there just gona continue till aether someone pays for legal aid or tommy shows up (if he does?)


i mean the question still remains why would he go through the amount of trouble to buy a set or pr mounts send them in have them copied and get a group buy ready,
then just take off with the money?
the logic just doesn't make sense to me at all

[nswst8]

umm, what's so wow about it is that you people will defend someone until the end of time. first the dude peace's with everyone's money, "he's probably just in prison." "i'm sure he'll make it right!"

then messy comes on with a spun rod bearing in a motor that apparently he wasn't told of, "shit happens dude you should have known better when you bought that bunk ass motor..."

that's where wow comes from.

as for my position in all of this roodoo, i don't like seeing people get screwed, especially not my friend, one of the only people on this board that knows these cars fucking backwards and forwards and helps people all day long. it's even more annoying that you guys are defending the person doing the screwing. especially when the shit is so blatant in my eyes. hell even the posts by "tommy's fiance" are verrrrrry reminiscent of his own typing and speaking style. you could say, "oh they're close so of course they probably sound or type the same." to which i would call BS like i've done on this whole situation.

I guess i really just don't understand why someone has a legitimate beef and posts it and you fuckers feel it necessary to defend him. If he wants to be defended he should come in here and do it himself.

Now you have pissed me off you little f**k. You really need to stop. And stop NOW!

All you do is incite bulls*it. Now you are starting to use profanity as a personal attack on those of us that don't agree with you. You go screw yourself.

You speak of friendship, yet you don't understand the meaning of the word.

If you can't refrain from your personal attacks then don't post.

[Rendon LX-i]

ouch.......

[blazin3gen]

so you know he's in jail? if you have any details that we don't have aside from assumptions please, by all means, share them, i'm all ears.

so then your making assumptions that u got ripped off right?

[Dr_Snooz]

This thread makes me sad. :(

I have no skin in this game. I didn't participate in the group buy so I don't care what happens. But I'm not terribly excited about seeing everyone gather round and hate on each other. Harvey and Stat1k, Tommy is obviously very highly respected on this board, and you probably aren't going to find a lot of help here. To say that he was passionate about these cars would be to put it mildly. He was doing things that the rest of us could only dream about and making us think about our cars in radical ways. There were only one or two other members in his league. So go handle yours. There are ways to find people beyond grousing in a random thread. This is a car board and there are only 4.2 billion pics of cars here, some of which are Tommy's car with the license plate number clearly visible. I was able to find one without spending a great deal of time at it. I'm surprised that you haven't and wonder how bad you really want your money back that you don't seem even to have looked. Once you find Tommy, you can serve him a demand letter and a summons if it comes to that. Having said that, don't get your hopes up too much about court. Courts are all about what's legal, not what's right. You could spend a lot of time and money finding Tommy and suing Tommy only to find that you get nothing because of some minor legal technicality about which you have yet to learn. You should do what you feel is right, but you'll probably come up empty handed in the end. Expressing your anger here is not helping anything so please just move things along in whatever direction you choose to and stop poisoning the atmosphere.

I'm not taking sides. Something happened and we'll probably never know what it was. I just don't like seeing the rancor increase and spill over into other threads. Let's just resolve this and get back to making our cars better.

Thanks,

[halxi]

You know, as a complete outsider on this whole group buy. It seems pretty cut and dry.

Said person took responsibility to collect money to have mounts made, then said person disappeared. This resulted in no mounts being delivered, and no money refunded.

If he's as close to this community as people have said he is, you would think he would of said "oh btw...." about his absence before it came about. So things like this would not happen, however it would seem that did not happen.

I can see where people feel ripped off/scammed. However, running around accusing people, talking shit, and running mouths/fingers in general will not get any of you anywhere.





:rofl: at the guy saying a spun bearing isnt noticable.

that is all.





oh and everyone should take a damn chill pill and figure out how to resolve this as an adult group, not a teenage thug shit talk fest.

[ghettogeddy]

Well for him to have added well im gonna go to jail on such and such date would say something was premeditative and i doubt it was that

sorry for caps btw

[MessyHonda]

so you met tommy I assume? did he tell you it was hurt or had low oil press?

yeah i got to meet him at his place...twice...i even gave him a ride when we went to go take out money at the bank so the cam would record me giving him the money


Messy , you did not get ripped...wtf you got a deal. Spun bearing isnt shit, you could have a spun bearing in a running motor and not know it... depends on circumstances. Eventually it will rear its ugly head though.
Replace the bearings and check the rods, those were H series wernt they?

If you knew what the F about motors you should have expected such as many times as it blew HG and blow off got stuck closed as well. Pay Fn attention people. shit

no he didnt build the motor just replaced the rings and bearrings...im going to let the machine shop have the final say...but the crank didnt look good...it has some scaring...

for me it just looked bad...people build top of the line engines and some blow or spin a bearing within couple hundred miles

i hope you guys get your money back


umm, what's so wow about it is that you people will defend someone until the end of time. first the dude peace's with everyone's money, "he's probably just in prison." "i'm sure he'll make it right!"

then messy comes on with a spun rod bearing in a motor that apparently he wasn't told of, "shit happens dude you should have known better when you bought that bunk ass motor..."

that's where wow comes from.

as for my position in all of this roodoo, i don't like seeing people get screwed, especially not my friend, one of the only people on this board that knows these cars fucking backwards and forwards and helps people all day long. it's even more annoying that you guys are defending the person doing the screwing. especially when the shit is so blatant in my eyes. hell even the posts by "tommy's fiance" are verrrrrry reminiscent of his own typing and speaking style. you could say, "oh they're close so of course they probably sound or type the same." to which i would call BS like i've done on this whole situation.

I guess i really just don't understand why someone has a legitimate beef and posts it and you fuckers feel it necessary to defend him. If he wants to be defended he should come in here and do it himself.

yeah im sick of this... anyone can be typing under anyones acct

[w261w261]

The 7 stages of loss:

1. Shock and Denial
2. Pain
3. Anger
4. Depression, reflection, lonliness
5. Upward Turn
6. Reconstruction
7. Acceptance

[2oodoor]

You know, as a complete outsider on this whole group buy. It seems pretty cut and dry.






:rofl: at the guy saying a spun bearing isnt noticable.

that is all.





oh and everyone should take a damn chill pill and figure out how to resolve this as an adult group, not a teenage thug shit talk fest.

In my defense halxi I just pictured this being a bearing showing some wear and not turned on the journal. Again, let's be the same page as to defining spun bearing and one that has significant wear patterns. :kekeke: cant blame ya for:rofl::Owned:

[LX-incredible]

Now you have pissed me off you little f**k. You really need to stop. And stop NOW!

All you do is incite bulls*it. Now you are starting to use profanity as a personal attack on those of us that don't agree with you. You go screw yourself.

You speak of friendship, yet you don't understand the meaning of the word.

If you can't refrain from your personal attacks then don't post.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ShellByrne/vagisil-1.jpg

[nswst8]

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c222/ShellByrne/vagisil-1.jpg


Is that the best you have to offer. A picture is suppose to be worth a thousand words. In your case you fall way short.

You all were suppose to keep this thread clean. You and your ranting whinners are now crying that you cannot find Tommy. Well, that is sad. It just shows the limit of your ability.

If I were as concerned, as you imply that you are, I would have found him by now. It is a simple enough process. But you do have to have a half a brain between you and your whinning cohorts. Maybe someone else will take pity and show you the way.

I showed you the way but like the whinners you are, you don't want to listen. So just keep whinning, its entertaining. And I'll just keep laughing.

[87accordlxi]

Enough of this. This isn’t a debate anymore. It’s simply turned into two sides bitching at each other and nobody is going to change their minds now over whether this constituted fraud or a simply a group buy that didn’t work out.

Nobody knows what happened to Tommy, and this issue doesn’t involve me. But my responsibility (and the mods’) is to maintain order in this community and when these issues spill over into fighting, we have to throw a lock on it. I wish it didn’t come to this, because this thread (and the others, which are being locked as well) could have served the purpose of getting a full grasp on who is owed money and any developments in the matter.

There are four parties to this issue, and I’ll be very clear about the roles of each.

People who gave Tommy money and intend to seek legal or Paypal recourse.
This legal option is your right, and you are free to exercise it. If you want to stay in touch with A20A3 about his experience in this method, then please contact him directly via PM or e-mail. Don’t be stupid - It’s in your best interest to keep the matter private anyways. No new threads are to be posted on this without a moderator’s permission (see our role below).

People who gave Tommy money and wish to wait it out without seeking legal recourse.
This is fine. It means that you don’t have to do anything except wait. Do not create threads without a moderator’s permission, and do not reply to any unauthorized threads. By all means, go ahead and attempt to contact Tommy any way you know how and let the staff know if you hear anything.

People who have nothing to do with this at all
We don't expect to hear anything from you either.

Moderators
3geez staff or administration is in no way affiliated or responsible for the planning, enforcement, or outcome of this group buy and surrounding issues. However, we are required to maintain order in this community and we will make sure that the above rules are being observed. However, we understand that legitimate news on the group buy should be conveyed to the membership. If you are definitively aware of any new developments in this matter, please contact either Mark (markmdz89hatch), or myself and we will determine if a new thread is allowed to be posted. Any other unauthorized posts on this matter will be removed and the authors dealt with.