need help asap

[1987AccordLx-i]

ill let the vid describe the horror
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjednQ1tay8


on a side note... fixed my vac advance... didnt know it was that bad lolololol
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/DSC05877.jpg

[Bass Man]

Yep, thats your main bearing sitting at the bottom of your oil-pan. To see for yourself, drain the oil (you'll need to do that to take the motor out anyway) and watch the silver in the oil.

Only way to fix that is a rebuild with a new crank, or a junkyard engine, which many have had good luck with. The JY will be cheaper than a rebuild, too.

What could of caused this is a number of things, but the thing that is sitting in my mind is the famous oil-pump o-ring failure that most of these 3g's experience.

[1987AccordLx-i]

Yep, thats your main bearing sitting at the bottom of your oil-pan. To see for yourself, drain the oil (you'll need to do that to take the motor out anyway) and watch the silver in the oil.

Only way to fix that is a rebuild with a new crank, or a junkyard engine, which many have had good luck with. The JY will be cheaper than a rebuild, too.

What could of caused this is a number of things, but the thing that is sitting in my mind is the famous oil-pump o-ring failure that most of these 3g's experience.

dam i was hoping it wouldnt be this bad... thanks for the input man

EDIT: how long do you think i have before the engine eats itself up?

[lostforawhile]

dam i was hoping it wouldnt be this bad... thanks for the input man

EDIT: how long do you think i have before the engine eats itself up?

I thought it was going to blow in the video personally, oil light never came on? when you get this fixed put in a GAUGE this will tell you something is wrong way before this happens.

[lostforawhile]

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/advice/fueleconomy/who.killed.the.electric.car/ev1.funeral.500.jpg

[Bass Man]

My oil pressure dropped from 30 idle to around 2lbs at idle, and about a week later I had a reallllly bad wristpin knock... I could have drove it a month or two longer, but I wanted to see if I could save it.

With the rock knock it's hard to tell. I've seen a lot of Suzuki and Toyota engines with knocks last for 5+ years out wheeling, but yours might not last more than a week.

Acually, I've heard that noise before in a 2.0 Suzuki after it sucked up a lot of water and C'd the rod. The rod was hitting the cylinder lining and made the same noise.

[Dr_Snooz]

Wait a minute, this is blown engine number two for you, right? The last one was a broken crank and wasn't that long ago if memory serves. What are you doing to your poor car? Please, it's not a Formula 1 racer and it's not built for towing earth moving equipment. It's an old, tired car so treat it with just a little respect!

All kidding aside, sorry to hear about the sadness under your hood.

[1987AccordLx-i]

well the oil light never went on... never had a problem with the lube system.. but a pressure gauge would be nice...

and doc... i bought this car with the rod knock... it just got worse the more i drove it... and i know its an old car so i drive it respectively but still the knocking continues to worsen

i talked to my mechanic friend and he said that it doesnt sound bad in person... he says just to do a bottom end bearing overhaul and that should do it... that i can take on myself

if its mid engine (pistons, wrist pins) then ill be unhappy because i cant afford to have my car down... i got college all week and i dont have the time neither... except weekends...

if she can make it through this week then friday ill do the bottom end overhaul.. god willing

[Bass Man]

That crank is wasted if it's been knocking for the last 2 months (or more). There really isn't a "cheap" rebuild. You'll need to pull it to over-haul it, cuz I got a fealing that crank is real beat up and you need to mic it to make sure it's not, even if it don't look bad (not likely), you're gonna have another expencive fix in a month.

[1987AccordLx-i]

That crank is wasted if it's been knocking for the last 2 months (or more). There really isn't a "cheap" rebuild. You'll need to pull it to over-haul it, cuz I got a fealing that crank is real beat up and you need to mic it to make sure it's not, even if it don't look bad (not likely), you're gonna have another expencive fix in a month.

well i can mic it.. send it out to get ground.. but i want the cheapest thing i can do.. im very low on money like always

[lostforawhile]

well i can mic it.. send it out to get ground.. but i want the cheapest thing i can do.. im very low on money like always
these cranks are not supposed to be able to be regound, and if your mechanic friend says a knock like that isn't "bad" he needs a new profession. if you live near a pick and pull best bet is to pull another engine and make that one a boat anchor.

[ecogabriel]

Sounds pretty bad... your mechanic said it wasn't???

Solutions? the crank may be shot at this point, but you have to take it apart to see it. I've seen a couple of engines that survived that kind of damage with the crank survived.
One ran without oil until it seized up (it had hit a log, broke its crankcase); bearings were destroyed but the crank survived. Another threw a rod driving on a highway; the mechanic told me the driver did not hear the knocking . I still remember seeing the rod bolts stretched like they were made of bubble gum ; the crank in that cylinder was not worse than in the other 5 (the engine needed a rebuilt anyway)

I would not count on miracles though; yours have been knocking for a while.
I would stop driving the car at once and check the damage. And the other guys already told you what your options are. Cheapest one is getting another engine from the junkyard. If you can take it apart there you may see the condition of the bottom end.

sorry for your problem; good luck.

[lostforawhile]

well i can mic it.. send it out to get ground.. but i want the cheapest thing i can do.. im very low on money like always

if you are low on money cheapest fix is a good used motor,maby from a wrecked car. have you seen if anyone on here has one for sale? you will probably get it cheapest here and the guys here are going to be straightforward about it's condition. if it's been knocking for a while, it's going to be way cheaper to find one running already then to fix that mess.

[w261w261]

<< What could of caused this is a number of things, but the thing that is sitting in my mind is the famous oil-pump o-ring failure that most of these 3g's experience >>

...Famous oil-pump o-ring failure? How famous? My engine has about 220k on it, and the last time I changed out the timing belt/water pump etc I had meant to ask the mechanic to put in a new oil pump but forgot. I posted here about oil pumps and don't remember the specifics, but the essence of the replies was that it probably isn't anything to worry about. Maybe I should worry after all?

[1987AccordLx-i]

<< What could of caused this is a number of things, but the thing that is sitting in my mind is the famous oil-pump o-ring failure that most of these 3g's experience >>

...Famous oil-pump o-ring failure? How famous? My engine has about 220k on it, and the last time I changed out the timing belt/water pump etc I had meant to ask the mechanic to put in a new oil pump but forgot. I posted here about oil pumps and don't remember the specifics, but the essence of the replies was that it probably isn't anything to worry about. Maybe I should worry after all?

mines got 215k on it and it dont leak any oil.. and ive never heard of the o-ring failure... but i could be wrong


as for the others... ill try to get my hands on a short block

will replacing the rod bearings hold me off for like a month? im waiting for my financial aid from college to come in and i plan on fixing the car with that... hopefully i get a good amount

[ecogabriel]

mines got 215k on it and it dont leak any oil.. and ive never heard of the o-ring failure... but i could be wrong


as for the others... ill try to get my hands on a short block

will replacing the rod bearings hold me off for like a month? im waiting for my financial aid from college to come in and i plan on fixing the car with that... hopefully i get a good amount

You would only know about the condition of the crankshaft when you see it. You should think on what might have caused the bearing to fail in the first place. If the other bearings still hold, one reason for failure would be the bearing not getting enough oil (maybe an obstructed passage?) Only way to know: take the crankcase out and check the crankshaft and bearings.

[1987AccordLx-i]

You would only know about the condition of the crankshaft when you see it. You should think on what might have caused the bearing to fail in the first place. If the other bearings still hold, one reason for failure would be the bearing not getting enough oil (maybe an obstructed passage?) Only way to know: take the crankcase out and check the crankshaft and bearings.

well the guy i bought the car off of was constantly racing it... he took it to the race track i think every weekend... so i know he was beating the hell out of it... so i guess its just normal wear and tear just accelerated from all the abuse the guy did to it

[Bass Man]

Oil pump info. (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69033)

[Dr_Snooz]

That crank is wasted if it's been knocking for the last 2 months (or more). There really isn't a "cheap" rebuild. You'll need to pull it to over-haul it, cuz I got a fealing that crank is real beat up and you need to mic it to make sure it's not, even if it don't look bad (not likely), you're gonna have another expencive fix in a month.

I'll second this. Tom, you've gone the cheapo route twice now and it's left you in the same spot each time with you car all screwed up and you in a jam. You can do what you want, but I'll encourage you to belly up and do a proper rebuild. Give your car the TLC it needs and don't do anymore ghetto rigging.

[1987AccordLx-i]

I'll second this. Tom, you've gone the cheapo route twice now and it's left you in the same spot each time with you car all screwed up and you in a jam. You can do what you want, but I'll encourage you to belly up and do a proper rebuild. Give your car the TLC it needs and don't do anymore ghetto rigging.

my previous 3g got the king treatment... i got above oem spec parts for it.. it was fully built... but then got stolen :'[ man that would have been a fun car with that fully built a20

but this one i just want to hold off til i get my financial aid... then ill get a new block and build the bottom end on it... but i need this engine to last like a month or 2

[ecogabriel]

well the guy i bought the car off of was constantly racing it... he took it to the race track i think every weekend... so i know he was beating the hell out of it... so i guess its just normal wear and tear just accelerated from all the abuse the guy did to it

And you want to hold to that engine for another month? If you want to gamble just go ahead. But be aware that if the rod comes completely loose you may risk big damage if the rod comes loose and stays down when the crankshaft makes the next turn... bam!

Your only way out is getting a short block good enough to be swapped in the car, or that may be rebuilt.

[Bass Man]

You can run it for a while longer if you are real gentle with it, but you can't save the motor if you ruin it. They are cheap enough to just buy an 88 LXI long block and throw it in there like me!

[1987AccordLx-i]

good news gentlemen... its not bad... the rod bearings were just shot to hell.. heres some pics

took off the downpipe
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/DSC05880.jpg

supported trans and removing trans brace
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/DSC05881.jpg

took off brace and removing oil pan
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/DSC05883.jpg

removed oil pan and rod #3 cuz it was loose
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/DSC05885.jpg

and this is what came out of rod #3... ignore the other ones... is from rod #2
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/DSC05887.jpg

so overall theres no scoring on the crank.. no damage on the pistons.. and everything checks out ok.. ill dig deeper tomorrow because im dead tired but ill post up some more as i go

[lostforawhile]

but do you have a way to measure the rod journals for out of round? and for wear?you need the exact size, if it's worn badly you may need undersize bearings. you need some crocus cloth to try to polish those journals at the least,then clean the shit out of them. also need some sort of assembly lube so the new bearings aren't scraped to crap the second you start the car. This may get you by, but this is doing brain surgery with a chainsaw, this is a precise engine. only way to do it right iis to flip the engine over, take out the crank and measure each rod journal in at least two places 90 degrees apart.

[1987AccordLx-i]

but do you have a way to measure the rod journals for out of round? and for wear?you need the exact size, if it's worn badly you may need undersize bearings. you need some crocus cloth to try to polish those journals at the least,then clean the shit out of them. also need some sort of assembly lube so the new bearings aren't scraped to crap the second you start the car. This may get you by, but this is doing brain surgery with a chainsaw, this is a precise engine. only way to do it right iis to flip the engine over, take out the crank and measure each rod journal in at least two places 90 degrees apart.

i have no way to measure man... i know im taking a cheapass way out but i really cant afford to pull the engine yet... im just doing the bearing change so it can last me a bit longer til my school decides to give me money :/ but everything is looking ok from what i see

[Dr_Snooz]

i have no way to measure man... i know im taking a cheapass way out but i really cant afford to pull the engine yet... im just doing the bearing change so it can last me a bit longer til my school decides to give me money :/ but everything is looking ok from what i see

LOL Tom! I think you look for hoopty engines so you can do hoopty fixes and limp a little further. Rock on dude!

[AZmike]

plastigauge is cheap and lets you measure the bearing tolerances. Use a jack and a block of wood to support the crank away from the mains when measuring.

[1987AccordLx-i]

LOL Tom! I think you look for hoopty engines so you can do hoopty fixes and limp a little further. Rock on dude!

haha sorta... i havnt gotten the full engine yet haha... BUT! i am saving up for this ^_^
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-ACCORD-86-89-ENGINE-LONG-BLOCK-HLBA20F_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14 QQhashZitem562c2205d7QQitemZ370107614679QQptZMotor sQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

[Bass Man]

That looks like a really good deal! The head work on that is worth that much.

[Dr_Snooz]

Wow. That is cheap. I rebuilt my own and didn't beat that by much. And I didn't touch the head. If I'd done that, I'd have spent more.

You should build your own though. You learn so much and feel a bigger sense of accomplishment when it's all done.

[ecogabriel]

Wow. That is cheap. I rebuilt my own and didn't beat that by much. And I didn't touch the head. If I'd done that, I'd have spent more.

You should build your own though. You learn so much and feel a bigger sense of accomplishment when it's all done.

Sounds like a very good deal. I guess they can get those prices because they source engine parts at wholesale prices (which we can't).

One learns a lot by taking it apart and putting it back together; however, one should have time, be patient, follow instructions to the letter, have the tools, and the physical space to carry it out. A head rebuilt is something that can be done without that much of a problem -I may do it in my living room if my wife does not kick me out... :rocket:

in the meantime, good luck with the "band aid" repair. Get a torque wrench (autozone loans those if you do not have one)

[LX-incredible]

With the scoring on those bearings, I would look really hard at the #3 rod journal. A fucked journal will eat those aftermarket bearings in no time.

[Dr_Snooz]

A head rebuilt is something that can be done without that much of a problem -I may do it in my living room if my wife does not kick me out... :rocket:

Funny, a head is about the only thing I wouldn't try to rebuild. Too many machine tools needed for something I'm only going to be doing a couple times in my life.

[1987AccordLx-i]

i have rebuilt a couple of engines in my time but this time i cant due to school... i will never get done.. so ill just get it and mate it with a rebuilt trans and just slap it in the car... BUT! with full synthetic engine and transaxle oil.. what do you guys think that crate motor is pushin? factory specs or more?

[Bass Man]

That one you posted could reach 135-150 with the right intake(or carb) and exhaust.

[1987AccordLx-i]

well i got some money coming in soon so im going to get a shortblock from the junkyard.... and shes knocking pretty bad again... dam rods

[1987AccordLx-i]

got a new shortblock guys! 160k on it too.. looks like it was just serviced because it still has the honing marks on the cylinder walls.. i just have to replace the freezeplugs and im good.... BUT the car it came out of was trippy... it was the 86-87 model FI but whats wierd is that the chassis said BA5.. but its the 3g sedan... wtf is up with that? AND the short blocks engine code is BT... is BT usdm or canadian or what?

[Civic Accord Honda]

got a new shortblock guys! 160k on it too.. looks like it was just serviced because it still has the honing marks on the cylinder walls.. i just have to replace the freezeplugs and im good.... BUT the car it came out of was trippy... it was the 86-87 model FI but whats wierd is that the chassis said BA5.. but its the 3g sedan... wtf is up with that? AND the short blocks engine code is BT... is BT usdm or canadian or what?

its a 86 that was sold in late 85 ^_^ the first few accord got the BT and BS engine which was later renamed A20A1 and A20A3

[1987AccordLx-i]

its a 86 that was sold in late 85 ^_^ the first few accord got the BT and BS engine which was later renamed A20A1 and A20A3

so is having the BT engine rare? or common? because i was tripping out on the chassis code and the engine stamp

[Civic Accord Honda]

so is having the BT engine rare? or common? because i was tripping out on the chassis code and the engine stamp

its sorta rare only came on 86s

[1987AccordLx-i]

its sorta rare only came on 86s

hmm thats cool to know... update on the rebuild

waiting til friday to get the block and head hot tanked... after that ill have it in the car by monday

[lostforawhile]

I thought the 86 was a BS, thats what i've got.

[ecogabriel]

The engine in my 86 LX-i is "BT"; and this one likely came with the car all the way from Japan (133K)

[1987AccordLx-i]

The engine in my 86 LX-i is "BT"; and this one likely came with the car all the way from Japan (133K)

so if your saying yours came with BT and its from japan... is it a JDM motor? or both?


update: today is the day... hot tank then rebuild... god im so happy

[ecogabriel]

so if your saying yours came with BT and its from japan... is it a JDM motor? or both?


update: today is the day... hot tank then rebuild... god im so happy

The whole car came from Japan. It was not built in OH although many 3Gs were made there. Some 3Gs come from Japan and were made to meet the requirements of the market here. Don't quote me on this but it seems that the 4-door EFI are mostly Japanese

[lostforawhile]

The whole car came from Japan. It was not built in OH although many 3Gs were made there. Some 3Gs come from Japan and were made to meet the requirements of the market here. Don't quote me on this but it seems that the 4-door EFI are mostly JapaneseI knopw my 86 hatch was japanese made, but the 89 lxi hatch i found at the yard said made in usa under the hood, unless the hood was swapped at some point.

[1987AccordLx-i]

wow so if the car was made in japan its got a jdm motor am i right? a jdm BT block..

[1987AccordLx-i]

I knopw my 86 hatch was japanese made, but the 89 lxi hatch i found at the yard said made in usa under the hood, unless the hood was swapped at some point.

how else can you tell if its japanese made? by the vin ey? hmm ima decode my vin now lol even tho i know its american made

[lostforawhile]

how else can you tell if its japanese made? by the vin ey? hmm ima decode my vin now lol even tho i know its american made
the first three letters are JHM in the vin code.

[AccordB20A]

american vins are so not reliable info. saw on preludepower people with 2g ludes having codes like Ba5 ba6 ba9 bb6 etc its a load of shit they didnt know what they were doing by the sounds of it. Over here its all CA1 = a18a CA2 = B18A CA3 - B20A CA4 = A16A CA5 - A20A and ca6 is the odd one out (american) coupe.
And having a JDM block doesnt mean anything its still the same as the USDM block

[1987AccordLx-i]

ok... thats all i wanted to know.. thanks gents.. ill keep updating the project as i go... tomorrow im going to order all the parts i need to finish up so wish me luck

[1987AccordLx-i]

great news 3geez... finished the rebuild and my car runs so perfectly... thanks for all the help guys :] without you guys id still be stuck.. ill post pictures of my setup within the next few days and ill also post what i replaced

[Civic Accord Honda]

all coupes are usdm btw.. even the ones in newzealnd are LHD apprantly.. lol

and thats some great news man! pics now!!

[1987AccordLx-i]

all coupes are usdm btw.. even the ones in newzealnd are LHD apprantly.. lol

and thats some great news man! pics now!!

wow never knew that lol

its too dark right now.. ill get them up eventually... school hours are killing me

[1987AccordLx-i]

heres the pics guys
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/Image005.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/Image007-1.jpg

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p262/TOKYOBEAR8990/Image006-2.jpg

[Civic Accord Honda]

that looks fresh!
you should repaint the car the factory green :)

[1987AccordLx-i]

that looks fresh!
you should repaint the car the factory green :)

i want to man... but moneys tight right now

[Civic Accord Honda]

i want to man... but moneys tight right now

i here that

[1987AccordLx-i]

i here that

yeah... one question... what would cause a rough idle? ive been having that and i cant figure out why... timing is within factory specs.. idle is around 700-800 and i got no vac leaks (double checked)