Timing belt slipped off :(

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

Well it did right before my 2nd auto-x, yeah there was damage, I am pretty sure it bent a valve because I turned the engine over by hand and almost made it all the way through then it stopped at the very end :(. So know I have to pull the head and swap over to a head with 330k on it lol. Anyone have any tips or things to do while the head is off? Besides all the normal stuff (Timing belt, water pump and gaskets ) ?

[lostforawhile]

Well it did right before my 2nd auto-x, yeah there was damage, I am pretty sure it bent a valve because I turned the engine over by hand and almost made it all the way through then it stopped at the very end :(. So know I have to pull the head and swap over to a head with 330k on it lol. Anyone have any tips or things to do while the head is off? Besides all the normal stuff (Timing belt, water pump and gaskets ) ?

um if you turned the bottom half of the engine with a valve open of course it's going to hit,strange because i had no problems with my dx when it broke a belt.

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

Oh, I forgot to add that part in lol. I Reinstall the timing (Yes I did it right) and it it hitting the valve and the spark plugs looked super cool, I'll post pics of that in a min

[lostforawhile]

Oh, I forgot to add that part in lol. I Reinstall the timing (Yes I did it right) and it it hitting the valve and the spark plugs looked super cool, I'll post pics of that in a mindo you have it 180 degrees out? you line up the mark on the flywheel then there is a make on the cam gear, and it should say up, you can install that gear 180 out. thats really strange because i have the BS engine and i could drop a valve down to it's retainer before it hit the piston on tdc. I mean it broke the belt at like 7000 rpm and once the new belt was on,it started right up with no problems.

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

Really? hmm well here the pic http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/Ju_S12_Turbo/IMG_3352.jpg

[lostforawhile]

what did you do? even if the belt broke the pistons can't hit the plugs.

[Civic Accord Honda]

Lol damn!

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

No idea, car was running bad, turned it off. Came back about hour later went to go and start it and a few noises happened, then I pulled the plugs and they looked like that. So they can't hit huh? weird. But on the plus side The day before me and Strugglebucket were doming on the porsches and bmw's lol

[Strugglebucket]

Damn that sucks you didn't get to run on Sunday.

Are all the plugs like that or just two? You might have dropped some valves.

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

3 are like that and the one that wasn't is one I couldn't change lol. Hey if you have aim hit me up and I'll send you all the videos of you

[OldSkoolA20accord]

when my rod exploded the pistion slapped tha fuck out of the head and it didnt bend the valves. it did knick the plug tho.

[Oldblueaccord]

compression test the engine that will tell you.



wp

[stat1K]

compression test the engine that will tell you.



wp

not necessarily, he needs to do both a compression and a leak down to make sure the head is fine... motor can have good compression numbers but have a leaking/bent valve.

[Oldblueaccord]

compression with a bent valve? have to explain that one further to me.


wp

[stat1K]

you'll notice a slight loss of compression within normal ranges, say in my case... i have a bent valve or two on my number 2 cylinder, yet my compression numbers are 192, 194, 182, 193

notice how it's within spec, it still indicates a problem but it's fairly common for this type of thing to occur.

[lostforawhile]

you'll notice a slight loss of compression within normal ranges, say in my case... i have a bent valve or two on my number 2 cylinder, yet my compression numbers are 192, 194, 182, 193

notice how it's within spec, it still indicates a problem but it's fairly common for this type of thing to occur.
hmmm mine was fine,

[stat1K]

yeah i had a leakdown performed and it agreed with my thought of a bent valve, so that's how i came to the conclusion of having good compression but still having a bent valve.

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

Yay, even though my engine got hungry and nom nom nomed my spark plugs, put some new ones in reset the timing belt and it started right up. Now I just need to go and get a new T-belt

Edit I was wrong lol

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

alrighty, so after it has been sitting for quite some time (I hate winter in guerneville) I started to work on it. After buying a new timing belt and related things (water pump different seals and tensioner ) I got the marks lined up, but when I was checking the flywheel the only marks I found was 3 lines and the number 24 on the side of those marks. After searching it seems other people say there is a 15 and a arrow. Have I timed it on the wrong marks, I timed it in the middle of the marks. When I ran it threw by hand, there is no drag and it feels good. However, once it is started it hits (not like BLAM but you can hear a tick) the number 3 spark plug causing it to bend the grounding strap onto the tip of the Electrode. I have read and people say this is a non interference motor, but I am at a loss when it comes to this. think it could be massive piston play?

[russiankid]

Piston hitting the spark plug is more than a timing issue.

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

Piston hitting the spark plug is more than a timing issue.

haha I know that much, but what I am trying to understand is how that has happened. only thing I know for sure is that the ring are worn. but when I change my oil pan gasket there was no metal shavings and there was not excessive play in the caps

[Nio]

it took me a couple run threw to find the T on mine. i say give it a couple very slow turns. i cant see the sparks cause of phone. but what if they did that because of torqing when belt went?

[cygnus x-1]

alrighty, so after it has been sitting for quite some time (I hate winter in guerneville) I started to work on it. After buying a new timing belt and related things (water pump different seals and tensioner ) I got the marks lined up, but when I was checking the flywheel the only marks I found was 3 lines and the number 24 on the side of those marks. After searching it seems other people say there is a 15 and a arrow. Have I timed it on the wrong marks, I timed it in the middle of the marks. When I ran it threw by hand, there is no drag and it feels good. However, once it is started it hits (not like BLAM but you can hear a tick) the number 3 spark plug causing it to bend the grounding strap onto the tip of the Electrode. I have read and people say this is a non interference motor, but I am at a loss when it comes to this. think it could be massive piston play?


The marks for 15 degrees would be on a FI engine. The timing for carbed engines is more like 24 degrees. There should be another mark maybe 2-3 inches from the marks next to the 24.

However, this wouldn't explain the piston hitting the plug. Something is very wrong with this engine and you really need to pull the head and take a look. Otherwise it will keep happening.


C|

[AccordB20A]

we had a ZC once that the piston came up above the deck . it ran ok but something was wrong in the block, god knows what it was haha

[joebeets]

Sure these are the right plugs?

[Bluntman]

I find a top dead center indicator to be rather handy, especially on a vehicle where the marks are not on the crank pulley and are working alone. You can watch it when #1 is coming up on compression stroke and get you where you want to be, then make sure you are on the mark at the flywheel. I have a couple for different size plug holes.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?store=snapon-store&item_ID=73860&group_ID=1594

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

yes they are the right plugs, I did line up the marks right (hooray) it is now running on all cylinders, though the only way I have got it to not eat the plugs is to move the washer almost all the way up the plug (about .5in from the end of the threads) Since I have done that the car runs good again. Now I am going to find some short plugs to buy for the car for temp use, because later on I want to swap engines.

Also bluntman, that tool is all sorts of win and I thank you for showing me that.

[cygnus x-1]

There is something massively wrong with this engine. The pistons cannot hit the spark plugs, even if they were too long. The intake valve would hit the plug first. Really the only possibilities are a totally bent valve or there is something in the cylinder that isn't supposed to be there. At the very least, pull the plug and shine a flashlight in there. And if you have one of those magnet on a stick things, put it in there and see if you can fish out any metal.


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[Dr_Snooz]

This isn't a shaved head/block kinda deal is it?

[Ju_S12_Turbo]

haha no this is a engine that has something massively wrong with it. Now the only reason I don't think it is a bent valve is because the engine runs great when all the spark plugs are firing and if the valve was bent it would not run for shit at all. Also I thought about something being in the cylinder, but if this were the case there would have to be something in all of the cylinders and I find that a little hard to believe (But stranger things have happened)

[Oldblueaccord]

Try and hunt down some shorter plugs. It may take some trial and error with a helpful parts guy to get a set just to see what it will do.

Also I am curious what the compression readings are. If its +200 psi a cylinder someones messed with it.


wp

[Dr_Snooz]

haha no this is a engine that has something massively wrong with it. Now the only reason I don't think it is a bent valve is because the engine runs great when all the spark plugs are firing and if the valve was bent it would not run for shit at all. Also I thought about something being in the cylinder, but if this were the case there would have to be something in all of the cylinders and I find that a little hard to believe (But stranger things have happened)

Something's not right here. You say the engine threw a timing belt and now it's kissing the plugs? But not before? But it still runs great? What the hell???

[Dr_Snooz]

And how the crap does a timing belt "slip off"?

[cygnus x-1]

The plugs have nothing to do with the timing belt.

Also, the plugs are at least 3/16" above the surface of the head (unless it's been milled), and then there's the gasket thickness and the dish on top of the piston. Normally it would be physically impossible for the pistons to EVER hit the plugs.

It's possible the pistons are not from an A20. If they were domed it would explain this. It could also be the plug holes were stripped out and repaired in such a way that they protrude into the cylinders more.

Or the engine is not really an A20?


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[Ju_S12_Turbo]

And how the crap does a timing belt "slip off"?

Look I don't know how it slips off, when I pulled the cover the belt was still there and in one piece but no longer on the cam gear. And yes thats what I am saying. the car the day of the auto-x was dropping cylinders at random and from what I can grasp it seemed as if it were jumping time in such a way that it didn't stop it from running, but it would lose random cylinders. when I get a chance I will try to take a video of what is happening. All I know there is something wrong (duh) and it is going to cost more then this engine is worth (not a20's just this engine). As far as other repairs go, I don't know much since I found this car and got it running. One of the spark plugs were repaired with a heilcoil but that is stuck on the plug. Now that plug is the only one that is not getting hit, I think it is because it does not sit as far down as the rest due to the helicoil. Meehhhh, I will figure it out.

[Oldblueaccord]

Maybe also verify that the head is an A20. I do think the the A18 head will work and maybe add some compression. Mark did a head chart with numbers somewhere on here. I dunno if the plugs would be that different.

Glad its running otherwise.

wp