Naturally aspirated

[Unknown]

Anyone running a built high compression a20? I have a friend (though dumb) who has an 01 Honda Accord ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle). He recently blew his transmission, and I made the off handed remark to get an H22 for it.

Long story short, after quite a bit of crap talking, he purchased the motor, and told me I couldn't build a faster car for any less money.

Now, I'm not looking for any examples of like 200 hp NA a20's or anything, but in my opinion, a guy who has a fat ass car (3000lbs. +) thats automatic, with less than 200 whp, should be able to get beaten by a 22 year old worked shit box with like 150 ish horsepower and possibly a shot of nitrous, a 5 speed, and a much better driver. Am I wrong?

[charliekuney]

3,000lbs isn't fat. These cars are 2,400-2,800lbs for the USDM models (I'm not sure about the EDM/JDM cars, especially the Aerodeck). I mean, the 4,500lb Audi A8L W12 has 450hp and can do 0-60mph in five seconds, and can top 200mph. It's an automatic, too.

[MessyHonda]

so now you are going to spend alot of money? buy a civic and do a swap...these cars are hard to find bolt on performance parts

[Rendon LX-i]

BOI...it would take some CASHHHHH MONEY to make a all motor a series to 200 hp.....just boost it cheap way and youll be 200 but then youll prolly blow...lol

[Vanilla Sky]

All motor A20 is expensive, especially if you want to hit nearly DOUBLE the original power. You'll be better off with boost.

I just ran through this exact question in another thread, just 2 threads below this one.

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70445

I'm sorry, but at some point, you have to do your own work and SEARCH.

[Civic Accord Honda]

so now you are going to spend alot of money? buy a civic and do a swap...these cars are hard to find bolt on performance parts

A CIVIC?! :slap: :p get a CB accord if you want aftermarket and a nice car :lol:

[2drSE-i]

A CIVIC?! :slap: :p get a CB accord if you want aftermarket and a nice car :lol:

lol apparently it depends on what kinda car CAH has at the time :kekeke:

[Unknown]

A CIVIC?! Don't get me wrong, but that would be spending more money than I'd have to for a similar performing (if around the same age) car. I said before, I'm not going for anything crazy power wise, I'm not dumb, or unreasonable.

And an Accord ULEV is faaaaaaarrrrrr from being a W12 of any sort. An H22 Prelude stock runs 14s, in an Accord, with super long gearing set up for economy, with a stock long block USDM H22a4, is nothing to lose sleep over.

I had an NA 89 Jetta wolfsburg edition with a 55 shot walk GTI and Jetta 1.8t's in the quarter mile. On the highway, forget it, but in the 1/4, its not a hard thing to do.

Why such the negative feed back?

[Unknown]

Oh, for some perspective;

A 2000 Honda Accord ULEV locally (same kind of car) boosted at 10lbs. with an apexi only runs 15.8's with the same transmission, same size wheels, etc.

For a website of 3g enthusiasts, you're not very enthusiastic haha.

[Hauntd ca3]

a new accord will weigh in at around 4000lb wouldnt it?
if you done the normal stuf I,H,E alond with a rebuild and bumping the comp a bit and 130 whp wouldnt be outta the question would it?
not an a series person but that would seem reasonable to me

[night]

accord is 3200ish.
the very newest accords are probly 1 or 200 more.
the 5gen ludes that the H was made for were right at 3000 and they could just squeeze out a high 14.

[charliekuney]

And an Accord ULEV is faaaaaaarrrrrr from being a W12 of any sort.

Don't worry, I wasn't comparing them. I was showing that just because a car is heavy and an automatic doesn't necessarily mean it's slow.


Why such the negative feed back?

I see nothing negative about this thread, so far. People are just recommending cheaper alternatives to modifying a third-generation Honda Accord to get you where you want to be. Vanilla was just being realistic when he said "[He's] sorry, but at some point, you have to do your own work and search".


For a website of 3g enthusiasts, you're not very enthusiastic haha.

There's a difference between being enthusiastic, and encouraging someone to do difficult, expensive mods that will get you to the same place as spending half as much on a different [recommended] vehicle. We are enthusiastic, but we don't encourage people to do stuff like that when we know it'll be hard and cost a lot, unless the modifier has the money and want/need/ability to do so. :)


a new accord will weigh in at around 4000lb wouldnt it?

Wikipedia says that the sixth-gen Accord weights just under 3,000lbs. I'm not sure about the ULEV model.

[Rendon LX-i]

TRUE......we not hating WE just telling you the facts....

[Unknown]

Haha, as far as the enthusiasm remark, I was only half serious. This forum seems pretty awesome, and alot of the info I've found thus far are actually very enlightening. I was actually shocked to see so many clean, well modded, tasteful 3rd gen accords when I was referred to this place.

And, I was more so just thinking of like a gasket match port job, a skunk 2 b16 intake manifold (which I already have from another car), a small wet shot of nitrous (also already have), and a shaved head, nothing crazy, but a small bump in compression (friend has a machine shop). So I'm not really going to be putting alot of money into it that hasn't already been spent long ago.

The car will be more of a mut. And I want to see if my late 80's mut, can beat a riced out ultra low emissions vehicle in the 1/4 mile haha.

[Unknown]

a new accord will weigh in at around 4000lb wouldnt it?
if you done the normal stuf I,H,E alond with a rebuild and bumping the comp a bit and 130 whp wouldnt be outta the question would it?
not an a series person but that would seem reasonable to me

I forgot to add that, but yeah I/H/E will be included as well.

[Vanilla Sky]

The head needs cleaning more than you need a bump in compression. Both sides need a cleanup, these heads don't have the best casting jobs in the world.

[MessyHonda]

a new accord will weigh in at around 4000lb wouldnt it?
if you done the normal stuf I,H,E alond with a rebuild and bumping the comp a bit and 130 whp wouldnt be outta the question would it?
not an a series person but that would seem reasonable to me

it was done on a stock motor...openloop made like 140whp he had headers, cam, intake

[Unknown]

The head needs cleaning more than you need a bump in compression. Both sides need a cleanup, these heads don't have the best casting jobs in the world.

Ok, thats good to know, a bump in compression couldn't hurt though.

[Tdurr]

go obd1 so u can get it tuned. and a 272 cam form delta(85ish shipped), or a bisi cam(200ish) along with the I/E/H

[Civic Accord Honda]

50 shot of nos should help alot! ive seen a bunch of dyno runs on youtube and seen it add around 30-40hp..

[Strugglebucket]

All you want to do is beat a swapped '01 accord in a drag race?

If you really are a decent driver, the 50 shot and some slicks in front should be all you need. That and take all the weight out of the back. This is assuming that the engine is basically in decent shape and the clutch doesn't slip.

[Bass Man]

High compression always equals motor failure with these 4 cylinders. I know a guy who build an N/A B20/16 hybrid with a lot of compression (don't remember how much, but it was close to 12:1) and he said he blew the head off after 2 weeks. He also drives like I do, so he wasn't easy on it after the break-in miles.

He told me this; Don't waste your money on N/A, go turbo.

[b20a86lude]

na is the best way always , ,

[Rendon LX-i]

UHHH......^^^^^ hell no. its not

[cubert]

High compression always equals motor failure with these 4 cylinders. I know a guy who build an N/A B20/16 hybrid with a lot of compression (don't remember how much, but it was close to 12:1) and he said he blew the head off after 2 weeks. He also drives like I do, so he wasn't easy on it after the break-in miles.

He told me this; Don't waste your money on N/A, go turbo.


So because your buddy either had a shit motor job, or beat the piss out of his new engine during break in or had a shit tune job turbo is the way to go? A high C/R always equals motor failure in an inline 4 engine?

Have you ever seen compression ratios for later model sportbikes? most are over 12:1, some over 13:1. Funny, they dont seem to fail? There are plenty of high compression inline 4 car engines around that dont just magically blow up for no apparent reason.




UHHH......^^^^^ hell no. its not


An endless argument...it can go both ways for days.

[Civic Accord Honda]

na is the best way always , ,
Word... but expensive as hell lol only reason i would turbo my next accord lol...

[Rendon LX-i]

it can go both ways forsure...but you can build a low comp build and spend half the money on a motor for boost...n/a takes alot more money and head work block work to get to what a boosted car can do......

BUT yeah it can sure go either way....

[Rendon LX-i]

on A i would go boost. to make 200 plus out of N/a A series you be in the bind easy.....with boost easly push 200 plus of the box with some tunning and be relieable as a n/a......


Point beening it would take alot of money to make it A series reach 200hp.....ALOT...i can slap a HMT kit and push that easy with out tune.....get where im coming from......

Openloop spend a grip on his A and go only 140....he prolly spend more than i even had on my build...

BUt...I think what ever floats the persons boat...if he wants n/a...go n/a...ITBS something...

[MessyHonda]

na is the best way always , ,

na is good for realiability


High compression always equals motor failure with these 4 cylinders. I know a guy who build an N/A B20/16 hybrid with a lot of compression (don't remember how much, but it was close to 12:1) and he said he blew the head off after 2 weeks. He also drives like I do, so he wasn't easy on it after the break-in miles.

He told me this; Don't waste your money on N/A, go turbo.

yeah thoes honda parts are frankenstined...from the factory they were not ment to do that but honda is known for NA engines...i admire the k20...it has a high compression and it makes lots of power....when i was at the dyno one made 190whp stock...this is out of a 2.0l engine.


on A i would go boost. to make 200 plus out of N/a A series you be in the bind easy.....with boost easly push 200 plus of the box with some tunning and be relieable as a n/a......


Point beening it would take alot of money to make it A series reach 200hp.....ALOT...i can slap a HMT kit and push that easy with out tune.....get where im coming from......

Openloop spend a grip on his A and go only 140....he prolly spend more than i even had on my build...

BUt...I think what ever floats the persons boat...if he wants n/a...go n/a...ITBS something...

i got to say openloop did a good job...my lil coupe moves even with stock parts...for my engine build im going NA because i dont want turbos...its extra weight...and oil hoses around the engine bay...i remember when ericw car caught on fire because his ps line started to leak on the manifold.

[Rendon LX-i]

Thats why you take it off LOL

[2oodoor]

You are on the right track Unknown, weight loss and hi comp. along with the rest. RT , traction and the sixty foot is where you get em.

[lostforawhile]

na is good for realiability



yeah thoes honda parts are frankenstined...from the factory they were not ment to do that but honda is known for NA engines...i admire the k20...it has a high compression and it makes lots of power....when i was at the dyno one made 190whp stock...this is out of a 2.0l engine.



i got to say openloop did a good job...my lil coupe moves even with stock parts...for my engine build im going NA because i dont want turbos...its extra weight...and oil hoses around the engine bay...i remember when ericw car caught on fire because his ps line started to leak on the manifold.oil hoses are fine, just use braided and AN stuff,not rubber hoses, and replace your 20 something year old power steering line lol.

[Tomisimo]

What the max Psi can original A20 withstand? 7-8? without blowing it to smithereens...

edit.. Lost, can you tell me how to do Braided lines? I know there is a tool for it, can you point me?

[2drSE-i]

This is such an old and stupid argument. Boost = Easy, fairly cheap power. In any car, pressurizing the intake charge will make power. More power = more fuel. More fuel = tuning.

Higher compression, too, will make power. The higher you take your compression, the higher octane fuel you will need. Raising the compression will not net you nearly as much power.

The real trade off is going to be reliability. Reliability can be achieved on any build, depending on how you do it. Build the block and head well, and top it off with an AWESOME tune, and that car will take you wherever you want.

[Rendon LX-i]

What the max Psi can original A20 withstand? 7-8? without blowing it to smithereens...

edit.. Lost, can you tell me how to do Braided lines? I know there is a tool for it, can you point me?

im pushing 10.....accordencipter pushed 13psi easy....on the SAFC tune.....


This is such an old and stupid argument. Boost = Easy, fairly cheap power. In any car, pressurizing the intake charge will make power. More power = more fuel. More fuel = tuning.

Higher compression, too, will make power. The higher you take your compression, the higher octane fuel you will need. Raising the compression will not net you nearly as much power.

The real trade off is going to be reliability. Reliability can be achieved on any build, depending on how you do it. Build the block and head well, and top it off with an AWESOME tune, and that car will take you wherever you want.


Agreed.....thats what i was trying to say....cant put it out any better.....its all in the tune....even if you have a bad ass N/A build you could blow if you run to lean......or exc...over rev.....and so on....

[Tomisimo]

How cheap are the SAFC? and to install it? or do a OBD1 will do a better job?

[MessyHonda]

obd1 is what you need if you want to tune your car....i installed a stage 2 cam and it intence for my motor .....i had to had my tuner tune it out and we got it to idle at 900rpm

[lostforawhile]

What the max Psi can original A20 withstand? 7-8? without blowing it to smithereens...

edit.. Lost, can you tell me how to do Braided lines? I know there is a tool for it, can you point me?
I'll have to do a video, somewhere on line there's a guide from aeroquip, it's not a particular tool you need ,it's a specific technique to making up the lines.

[Justanothermike]

Did you convert back to OBD1 yet messy?

[MessyHonda]

Did you convert back to OBD1 yet messy?

not yet...i tried using my obd1 dizzy that is not all cut up but it did not bolt down...i need to grind some more..plus i need to install my stage 2 cam

[AccordEpicenter]

its very hard to make power with this engine NA. It does love boost though, its easy to make alot of power boosted

[Rendon LX-i]

^^^^^Agreed. Pointless to spend all kinds of money on a n/a on a A20 youll get like 140 max with alot of money into it. Boost the a20 loves....Cast iron = MORE BOOST lol.

What ever route you take its totally up to you. But these heads need alot of work to get alot of flow for n/a. I know chris aka bobafett told me how much he spendnt i almost shit my pants. BUT with out flow there is no GO ...YO

And its funny how people think boring out the outside of the head...POINTLESS where your going to gain power and flow is.......boring the bowl and throat of the valve where it seats..... ANYwho i dont want to get all techy on you guys but Flow is whats key on these A's 2 intake an 1 exhuast is KILLER hp robbing.

[Tomisimo]

not yet...i tried using my obd1 dizzy that is not all cut up but it did not bolt down...i need to grind some more..plus i need to install my stage 2 cam

Messy I know you have converted your car to OBD1 along with (rudeludenotmean)
I have a few Q about that.. Can you help me out to sort few things out? Me Want OBD1 lol
I have some Qs about the distributor mount and BTDC mark.