Drawn through 'Boed a20a2?

[JordanQ]

As the name suggests, I am interested in setting up my 3gee with a draw through turbocharger using the stock carb. anyone had any experience with it? A nice run down of everything needed would be swell..

please no responses along the lines of "why bother when this is better" and the like ;-)

EDIT: i have read the topic on the matter, but can make no sense of any of it. Is all a jumble of arguments.

[Rendon LX-i]

umm.

[JordanQ]

ahh thanks, i'll try that.

[Vanilla Sky]

A new carb is the first thing you'll need. Our stock carbs barely put out enough fuel for just a few mods, much less a turbo. There's a reason you don't see any turbo Keihin 3geez. You really would be better off going EFI. If you must stay with carbs, you could always go DCOE and start thinking about serious power.

[89T]

you need some timing control as well.

[carotman]

The stock carb will not deliver enough fuel for a turbo. You need something else.

[JordanQ]

Thanks for the replys guys. They don't make bigger jets for our keihins? And just kinda throwing this out there as i'm not looking to build the fastest 3gee in the world, but i have an opportunity to rebuild and own a garret t3 and thought i'd put it to some good use. Thanks again

[Vanilla Sky]

Nope, the keihin carbs were never made to be upgraded. Just trash it and install a weber.

There's a reason we don't bother with performance on the keihins before we upgrade the carb. It's a pile of shit.

[Civic Accord Honda]

yeah hte exter cash for a webber 42 should be worth it

[JordanQ]

Well i'm not really finacially inclined at this point. The only reason this is a possible idea is because i have received this turbo for free, and my dad being a machinist, could help me fabricate whatever i needed. Are there any ideal carbs off of any stock vehicles i could find in a junkyard that would work? i'm thinking something along the lines of a 2 barrel carb off an 80's four cylinder ford pickup or mustang or something of the like? Seeing as i would need to fabricate a carb and intake flange, this sounds like a reasonable idea. I do recall some of the 80s 2.3t mustangs being draw-thru turboed.

[Vanilla Sky]

Weber DCOE40 carbs were common at one time. You have to find a matched set, though. If you can find them, they were a popular swap on old Alfas, Fiats, and Triumphs. You can purchase the required manifold from the marketplace here at 3geez.

For the price, you're better off going with fuel injection. There's a reason we do things the way we do around these parts.

[Oldblueaccord]

Might want to look at the Holley 2300 two barrel. Very popular but i dont know about the draw thru turbo parts but its the same flange as the 4 barrel carbs are.

There is some one that ran one here but he got drummed out pretty quick.


wp

[stat1K]

"i don't have money but i want to mod my car" is what i just read... focus on normal things like ball joints and other neglected points on the 3g that could cause your potential death.

[Rendon LX-i]

x2...thats what i said UMMM

[JordanQ]

"i don't have money but i want to mod my car" is what i just read... focus on normal things like ball joints and other neglected points on the 3g that could cause your potential death.

Thanks. Clearly you didn't read the topic i posted a few months ago when i bought the car.

Here it is : http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68233

Also, here is the paragraph i'm talking about from that topic, "other than the engine, the car is mechanically and cosmeticly sound, its got a new alternator, new CV joints, new wishbones, a new clutch and shaved flywheel, new motor mounts (beyond me why they chose to put A-series in) new front clip, interior is immaculate, its been sanded, and primered, the springs have been cut, but it doesn't have the notorious "ricer bounce"" The kids next task was rebuilding the engine. Apparently he waited a little too long.

The car will get me down the road just fine. Its because i have a garrett t3/4 turbo sitting next to me, and a mill, lathe, and miller TIG welder in my garage, that i am considering this project.

Back to the subject, Vanilla Sky, OldBlueaccord, thank you. I will search up and see if i can find either that weber or holley in any local salvage yards.

Thanks again to all.

[stat1K]

no i'm sorry i don't go trhough peopls threads.

off the topic, what are wishbones? lawl.

[JordanQ]

A-arms. Sorry, i grew up around 70's muscle cars, not Hondas. and people who know everything about 70's-80's muscle cars. not Hondas

I guess i thought someone that knew as much about these cars as you do, would know what kind of suspension is under them.

[cygnus x-1]

Generally speaking, a carb is a carb is a carb. So you can use anything that you're familiar with, assuming you can get it plumbed up. The stock carbs were designed for fuel mileage and low emissions, so they barely have enough flow for the stock engine. A Weber 38 would be a good choice. Fairly common and parts are available. Also very simple and easy to tune. You won't find one in a junkyard though.

You could try something from an older domestic but it would have to be fairly old. By the '80s most of the OEMs were either switching over to fuel injection or were loading up their carbs with electronics and emissions controls. And you don't want that crap.

Keep checking Craig's list end ebay too. There are deals out there if you look hard enough.

C|

[stat1K]

hahaha, i know quite a lot about the suspension, never heard anyone refer to anything on them as wishbone. you have lca's and uca's though?

really though with no money this is going to be damn near impossible, the accord isn't the platform to really spend "little to no money" on...

[JFern]

i know quite a bit about 60's and 70's cars (built about five now). Never heard of anyone refer to it as a wishbone. Control arm? yes. A-Arm? yes. but everybody has pet names for their own parts. So as for this lets see who penis is bigger b/s, just please stop and take it somewhere else, we are here to build cars not compare inches. (i have been a part of too many forums that just fight, this shouldn't be one of them)

As for trying to get a carb off a stock car to work? good luck, even manufacturers were smart enough to have EFI on their cars for turbo applications (examples? the 80's mustang 2.3L EFI, and the 80' thunderbirds 2.3L EFI, Rx7 turbos are EFI etc.) if you need a carb to do turbo, buy a holley because you can get jets for them easily and just build the flanges and stuff to fit.

[JordanQ]

Really? Yeah my accord has upper and lower control arms. What will cost money besides the carb?

[stat1K]

all of the other parts you will need to do this project PROPERLY...

i guess if you just kind of slap shit together that's fine... but the motor won't take a lot of boost even if it is just a draw through...

checkout www.homemadeturbo.com they had a good draw through setup on a yota truck i believe... if i can find a direct link to it i will...

[JFern]

Really? Yeah my accord has upper and lower control arms. What will cost money besides the carb?

well if you do it right (and considering you said you had only the turbo it self and its in good condition) ..... The carb itself, materials, new parts for the carb (ie jets etc.), gaskets, the tubing for the turbo as well as the oil lines, an exhaust manifold, wastegate, blowoff, intercooler, piping for the intercooler, an ecu flash (unless you are doing a complete standalone) and a bunch of other stuff you won't foresee (because building cars always seems to take 3 times as long and cost 3 times as much)

[JFern]

i guess if you just kind of slap shit together that's fine... but the motor won't take a lot of boost even if it is just a draw through...

oh ya its draw through.... x2 with static (build it right or not at all imo)

[Vanilla Sky]

I do want to point out the infamous Maserati Biturbo. Those are awesome cars if you swap to fuel injection. Even the stock pressurized Webers didn't do well.

I'd pick myself up a $50 LXi or SEi parts car and just swap to EFI. That way you also have a spare motor to mess with. If you were local to me, I have one I'd sell to you for $100.

[JordanQ]

well if you do it right (and considering you said you had only the turbo it self and its in good condition) ..... The carb itself, materials, new parts for the carb (ie jets etc.), gaskets, the tubing for the turbo as well as the oil lines, an exhaust manifold, wastegate, blowoff, intercooler, piping for the intercooler, an ecu flash (unless you are doing a complete standalone) and a bunch of other stuff you won't foresee (because building cars always seems to take 3 times as long and cost 3 times as much)

Thanks

but yeah, the tubing, oil lines, and manifold will be free. (dad=machinest) (got a wastegate)and don't need a BOV (can't on draw through), no IC (can't on draw through) but learn me about said ecu flash?

[stat1K]

to me carb is pointless... efi is so much more precise.

[JFern]

I do want to point out the infamous Maserati Biturbo. Those are awesome cars if you swap to fuel injection. Even the stock pressurized Webers didn't do well.

I'd pick myself up a $50 LXi or SEi parts car and just swap to EFI. That way you also have a spare motor to mess with. If you were local to me, I have one I'd sell to you for $100.

Having a parts car definitely has its advantages, especially if you can get the whole thing for the same price as a new carb, then you have everything you need to make better and more dependable power, not to mention a lot of stuff you didn't think you needed like sway bars or interior pieces and what not

[stat1K]

on the accord you are obd0, so you can't flash any ecu, as far as i know the accords ecu is also unchippable, also you're carb'd so there is nothing to tune. most of your parts are mechanical so there would be nothing to do. all you would really need is an FMU but that's ghetto and they break all the time, most people with home made turbo setups have their fmu fail and they lean out and melt something.

[JordanQ]

to me carb is pointless... efi is so much more precise.

Please don't. I clearly asked in the original post that you not post things to this effect.

Edit, what is an FMU?

[JFern]

Thanks

but yeah, the tubing, oil lines, and manifold will be free. (dad=machinest) (got a wastegate)and don't need a BOV (can't on draw through), no IC (can't on draw through) but learn me about said ecu flash?

free materials huh? (im jealous) oh and ya i missed the draw through part ^_^ you can't actually flash an ecu on your car (sorry for the bad vocabulary)
what i was implying is tuning the motor for the turbo. i'm a little tired.... and hungry. im just not paying attention....

[stat1K]

so you don't know what an FMU is but you want to turbo something, i'll say whatever i want in your thread when you ask questions like that...

just go read on homemadeturbo like all night, then you'll have a better sense of what you're doing probably...

i would think someone who knew what "a-arms" and "wishbones" would know other things about things like FMU's... yeah see how that feels? laf.

[JFern]

so you don't know what an FMU is but you want to turbo something, i'll say whatever i want in your thread when you ask questions like that...

just go read on homemadeturbo like all night, then you'll have a better sense of what you're doing probably...

i would think someone who knew what "a-arms" and "wishbones" would know other things about things like FMU's... yeah see how that feels? laf.

haha win.

btw FMU stands for Fuel Metering Unit (Thanks to google)

[stat1K]

yeah i know i love it when people ask questions rather than just straight googling it... i'd link you to a funny lmgtfy.com website but i'm too lazy for that kind of joke right now.

[JFern]

here ya go stat1k (alley oop!) http://tinyurl.com/yfxcq6k

[codyJDM]

Hey look, another draw-through argument thread!

ib4tl :tongue:

[JordanQ]

so no one has actually ever turboed a carbureted 3gee?

[Vanilla Sky]

Nope, none of us bother because we can find $50 parts cars and do an EFI swap for less than finding a carb in the junkyard and rebuilding it.

[JordanQ]

alright then
i'll gladly be the first.

[JFern]

Nope, none of us bother because we can find $50 parts cars and do an EFI swap for less than finding a carb in the junkyard and rebuilding it.

not to mention making more power with EFI

[labeledsk8r]

i saw that you said you dont need/cant use an IC, id like to know how you plan to cool the setup down, water injection? if you plan to do anyhing more then 2-4 psi the amount of heat buildup is going to throw everythig off. without some means of cooling it down your turbo or motor will be much more prone to failer.

[Vanilla Sky]

Well, by nature of this project, he's restricted to about 2-4 pounds of boost, so an intercooler isn't all that needed for such low boost.I don't see the motor lasting 5,000 miles, nor do I see it making more than about 130HP in the best of conditions. A simple EFI swap would put him at 110 to start out with, then he can run the same amount of boost and make a bit more reliable power, and be ahead when it came to price.

You just can't teach those who are unwilling to learn.

[labeledsk8r]

lol mostly what i was saying is for the amount fo work to make 2-4 psi its not worth it only would be worth it to have more boost but cant do that without cooling (or management)

to OP there is a good reason that no one does this type of turbo setup... its not imposible its just plain usless for the amount of money spent to do it even with everything your listing you cna get for free your still going to go threw blocks like crazy

[stat1K]

here ya go stat1k (alley oop!) http://tinyurl.com/yfxcq6k

damn was that like the precursor to this season in cleveland? LEBRON TO SHAQ AND HE SLAMS IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for the pass homes.

and yeah, another drawn through arguement, WOOOOO!!!!


efi swap.

[2drSE-i]

alright then
i'll gladly be the first.

Good luck to you. My suggestion is also to do a bunch of reading on homemadeturbo, get your head on straight, and stop asking questions on here. Its never been done here, and all you seem to be getting is negativity. Just post results when your done.

[stat1K]

Good luck to you. My suggestion is also to do a bunch of reading on homemadeturbo, get your head on straight, and stop asking questions on here. Its never been done here, and all you seem to be getting is negativity. Just post results when your done.

it's not negativity, its skepticism... i don't believe anything til i see it, so many people come on here saying they're gonna do this or that (myself being one of them when i had my accord) and really not much comes of it... vector, guyanobo, and a handful of others are really the only ones that have proven me wrong on anything.

[lostforawhile]

As the name suggests, I am interested in setting up my 3gee with a draw through turbocharger using the stock carb. anyone had any experience with it? A nice run down of everything needed would be swell..

please no responses along the lines of "why bother when this is better" and the like ;-)

EDIT: i have read the topic on the matter, but can make no sense of any of it. Is all a jumble of arguments.

The Keihin is a piece of junk, I put in jetting almost a decade ago, there used to be parts available, but they evaporated into thin air over time. They are now extinct. It's not worth it. If you have the equipment available, your best bet is a webber or a holley or other domestic carb. Both of those carbs have a good knowledge base of what needs to be done set them up for turbo like this. Search the turbo threads on here, and keep your eyes out and you'll find the internal parts you need, people do sell them. I think Johnny O has a turbo manifold available right now, that would get the turbo itself in the car, If I was doing something like this, I would buy something from him in a second. He has the fastest three geez on here, probable the fastest one ever.

[lostforawhile]

i know quite a bit about 60's and 70's cars (built about five now). Never heard of anyone refer to it as a wishbone. Control arm? yes. A-Arm? yes. but everybody has pet names for their own parts. So as for this lets see who penis is bigger b/s, just please stop and take it somewhere else, we are here to build cars not compare inches. (i have been a part of too many forums that just fight, this shouldn't be one of them)

As for trying to get a carb off a stock car to work? good luck, even manufacturers were smart enough to have EFI on their cars for turbo applications (examples? the 80's mustang 2.3L EFI, and the 80' thunderbirds 2.3L EFI, Rx7 turbos are EFI etc.) if you need a carb to do turbo, buy a holley because you can get jets for them easily and just build the flanges and stuff to fit.
as in double wishbones front and rear, very exotic stuff for an eighties car. and the template many honda suspensions were based off of for years. even the factory calls wishbones. Look at the front hub, suspension piece sideways and you'll see why.

[lostforawhile]

Please don't. I clearly asked in the original post that you not post things to this effect.

Edit, what is an FMU?

going to a draw through setup is completely possible without an ecu, it's just not as easy,it's been done on other cars for decades. You do need timing control though, there are Msd boxes that connect to the manifold and vary the timing based on boost levels. this would be your best bet in a non ecu setup

[JFern]

as in double wishbones front and rear, very exotic stuff for an eighties car. and the template many honda suspensions were based off of for years. even the factory calls wishbones. Look at the front hub, suspension piece sideways and you'll see why.

i was being facetious, i know what a double wishbone suspension and i know why its called a wishbone (also know as SLA suspension in ase classes, stands for short, long arm suspension) and yes having them in the rear is pretty rare in the eighties, but generally when you buy the part separately, its called a control arm or an a-arm (you walk into my work and ask for a wishbone and you'll get some weird looks) thats all i was saying

[JFern]

anyways... jordan: have you had the turbo resealed for draw through? (the gas breaks down the seals if its not made for draw through setup). Oh and if you are truly serious about this you should check out Volkswagen forums because they use draw through turbo setups quite often in VW drag cars

[JordanQ]

anyways... jordan: have you had the turbo resealed for draw through? (the gas breaks down the seals if its not made for draw through setup). Oh and if you are truly serious about this you should check out Volkswagen forums because they use draw through turbo setups quite often in VW drag cars

i've found a turbo rebuild kit on egay that comes with a carbon seal kit too. so chea.
Yes, i've seen VW is the main "draw through" place to go to.. i'll check them out

Thanks.