87 LXi Auto Shift Issue

[niles]

You could consider me a Honda Noob. I have a transmission issue with my Accord.
Newly acquired 87 LXi Automatic with Fuel Injection. I was told the tranny had some work to it by the previous owner but was unable to get any details...

When I got it the tranny was about a quart low. I topped it off, the fluid is dirty, (I know I will change it this weekend). but it is not burned.

The tranny works great in D3 shifts strong and has much power. In D4 the transmission slips when shifting into 4th while cold and often refuses to downshift while accelerating at highway speeds (50-60mph). The D4 gears shift nowhere as clean as an automatic should. Sometimes I swear it skips a gear.

Anyway, I have the fluid change set for this weekend. I was advised against a full flush because of the muddy buildup being necessary in an older tranny, (170,000mi).

Do you think the slippage is terminal or a fluid exchange will be the remedy? I really want a flush to start clean but everyone seems to think that would be a bad idea...

So I figgered I'd ask some Honda people. What do you think?

[Dr_Snooz]

This is an odd one. From your description, it sounds like you have a valve body issue of some kind, but not anything like I've heard of before. You say it "slips" going into fourth, which I assume to mean that it takes a long time to engage the gear and perhaps winds freely in the interim, possibly slamming into fourth when it finally gets there. "Slipping" when talking about autos usually means that when the gear is fully engaged and you stomp the gas, the engine goes faster, but the car doesn't. I don't think that's what's going on here but maybe you can clarify. (I'm not sure what you mean by "skipping a gear entirely").

Some years ago, I rebuilt a tranny I had pulled from the wrecking yard. It was a bolt-on 4 speed. I had a 3 speed and didn't like doing 75 @ 4,000 rpm. Anyway, when I opened up the valve body, I found a broken spring loaded valve. The spring was in two pieces and the valve roughed up pretty good. I had no idea how that had happened or what kinds of symptoms it might have caused but I would guess it might have caused something like you describe. I rebuilt the trans (replaced the spring and polished the valve) and it ran fine.

No matter, the steps for dealing with a problematic tranny are as follows:

1. Change the fluid
2. Adjust the throttle cable
3. Try a flush
4. Experiment with friction modifiers, different oils, etc.
5. Rebuild it :(

You can achieve something like a flush by greatly reducing your oil change intervals. Change oil every 5,000 miles instead 30,000. That will be a much more gentle way of cleaning up the trans and it's probably what I'd do as flushes are expensive. If it's mechanical, like I suspect, then you should see no real change as you move up that list. Anyway, let us know how it turns out.

[niles]

hey thanks for the advice man. I agree, it is perplexing. I am slightly mechanically inclined but am without the ability to explain this one.

But, by slipping I mean that when it shifts to 4th it hesitates for a maximum of around 5 seconds before locking in gear. While hesitating I can rev my engine from around 2000 rpm to 4000 rpm depending on how much gas I give it. So its not completely free from friction. The best I can think of is it seems to me like the response I would get from a clogged passage that is preventing my transmission from shifting - kind of like someone with high colosterol.

As an added note, while driving around 55 to 60 mph, the transmission refuses to shift. When I give it more gas eventually it will shudder and shake the car, instead of downshifting like a well-behaved transmission.

[nfs480]

Try changing the fluid every oil change for your next few oil changes and also adjust the throttle/TV cable and see if that helps at all. Who knows, maybe the TV cable is just way way way out of adjustment?

[fijisac]

dont forget to use honda ATF Z, it might cost a bit more but it really helps out

[89lxisedan]

thats the same thing my 89 lxi was doing. driving in d3 until 3500 and shifting to 4th helps. managed to squeeze 25000 miles out of it before two weeks ago when my trans let go

[niles]

thats the same thing my 89 lxi was doing. driving in d3 until 3500 and shifting to 4th helps. managed to squeeze 25000 miles out of it before two weeks ago when my trans let go

Oh man, that makes me fell less confident.... lol. I believe it though.

Update:
I changed the fluid today with the Honda Z fluid, so now it's about 33% new fluid. I can really tell the difference! That stuff is only like one or two dollars more and totally worth it! Shifts strong and I can feel more power.

However, even though it shifts nice. The problem persists. Its exactly like described on the 89LXi. Slips in fourth an is fairly unreliable in all overdrive gears :( I think its time to look into a Manual Tranny conversion...

I think some of the innards were either wrecked by the previous owners or the people that "did work" to it while previously owned.

The evidence:
The TV cable was also great advice! Thank you guys for all the support! It was adjusted improperly, as well as the throttle cable. Somebody took the liberty of cross-threading the adjusting bolt on the TV cable and then compensated for their error by moving the throttle cable adjustment.

So my brother and I did what we could. It is better and I can really tell the difference in where the transmission shifts while driving.

It's off to U-Pull-It to see if I can get my hands on a good TV cable....

In the future look for me in a Manual conversion bulletin going "OMG what have I done!" lol

[nfs480]

You might also want to try doing one or two more drain and fills with ATF-Z1 in the future to see if getting more of the fluid replaced will improve the shifting further.

[niles]

So, small update: I have been doing transmission fluid changes about every other oil change (probably twice a year) and the transmission has really come back to life! Also I believe driving within the car's mechanical limitations has also helped :)

I am now using the DW-1 since the Z-1 has been discontinued and haven't really noticed a difference between the two. Plan on doing another fluid change this weekend when I replace a leaky output shaft seal. Probably damaged during a CV replacement on the passenger side.

I wanted to thank everyone for their advice and detailed descriptions! Especially since I have not needed to do the manual conversion yet ;)

[Dr_Snooz]

Amazing! These autos are the darndest things. They can go 3-400k miles without blowing up and leaving all their innards on the road. You might have that trans a lot longer than you plan.

Thanks for the update!

[CB Coupe SEi]

Just a note of a experience I had, can't say this is your issure but something to check. I had wanted to clean my negative battery ground connections up and had to remove the throttle control cable from the Transmission. Boy, putting that back in the wrong adjustment can really have the tranny acting weird. Shifting at different points, especially at high speed and not downshifting when you want it too. There is a adjustment proceedure in the Factory manual.