Oil Leak Check...

[TsubohachiLX-i]

Hello 3GEEZ!!!

I was just wanting to know if it was ok to put ENGINE DYE inside of my engine, because I'm trying to locate an oil leak and can't pinpoint it....

My Hayne's manual says that HONDA ADVISES AGAINST ENGINE ADDITIVES, so I was just wanting to know for sure before I buy some...

[nswst8]

Distributor O-ring
Valve cover gasket
Oil filter base gasket
Oil pan gasket
Rear main seal
Crank seal
Cam seal

Thats about all you have to check, I'd advise against engine dye. Its not necassary. Have you put a clean piece of cardboard under the engine to determine the leak?

[crxboi]

wash your motor and run car for week then check for leak .

[TsubohachiLX-i]

I had the oil filter base changed once already, like 5/6 months ago, so it could be that again. As for the leak itself, it comes out in DRIPS/SEEPS, so its not exactly leaving any puddles on the ground for me to use cardboard.

So that tells me that the leak is very small...but noticeable...

[nswst8]

Why don't you tell us what you have done thus far, so we can better assist you. I don't like playing twenty questions trying to help someone.

Top off the oil drive the car to operating temps and then throw a piece of cardboard underneath it doesn't have to be puddles, just a drop will give you a lead.

[Ichiban]

Yeah, soak the thing in degreaser, blast off all the shit, then look for your seepage/weepage/ whatever. A while ago I was sure the rear main of my 22R was leaking, so I cleaned it spotless. Turned out it was the valve cover, again.

[TsubohachiLX-i]

I've had the VALVE COVER gasket changed in January of this year...

I've had the OIL FILTER BASE gasket changed in March/April of this year...

And that's about it. When I look under my LX-i, I can see an OIL DROP hanging from the DRAIN PLUG on the OIL PAN, and the OIL PAN itself looks damp/dirty around the edges...

The lower portion of the TIMING BELT COVER looks damp/dirty...

There is also small traces of oil around the edges of the Valve Cover...

[lostforawhile]

when honda says no additives they mean additives meant to change the characteristics of the oil, if you have engine oil leak detector and it says ok for oil,it won't hurt anything. you still need to scrub the engine, then run it and take the UV light that comes with the kit, and the leaks will all glow brightly. They really are nice, you can see oil around seals and behind pulleys you may not be able to see with your eyes alone.

[lostforawhile]

http://www.tracerline.com/faq.html

[nswst8]

I can agree with Tim.

You can snug the oil pan bolts, replace the aluminum washer on the drain pan bolt.

Do you do your own work? How mechanically inline are you?

Post a pic of your engine.

[Dr_Snooz]

Basically, all the seals that nswst8 lists above (with the exception of the rear main seal) are going to leak at this age. If you haven't replaced them yet, you probably will be doing so in the near future. I wouldn't worry too much about the rear main because it's hard to get to, doesn't often leak and when it looks like it's leaking, it's more likely your distributor oring.

You can do the dye, but from what you describe, you need an oil pan gasket and all the seals behind the timing cover. I'd get on the timing seals pronto, especially the oil pump seal. The oil pump seal can fail without any indication, lose pressure and burn up the engine without you ever knowing it. While you're in there, check the hoses before and after the PCV breather box. Those can get real funky.

[TsubohachiLX-i]

I had my a20a3 rebuilt at Japanese Engines, a shop that specializes in engine rebuiding, back in Feburary of 2008. Everything at the time was good, NO LEAKS WHAT-SO-EVER...

Sometime around December of 2008, while doing a routine check on my car, I noticed the OIL LEVEL on my dipstick was far past the upper mark. At that time, I had went to PEP BOYS and let them do the oil change, and its possible they are the cause of my leak problems because they put too much damn oil in my car! When I confronted them, they denied everything, so now I only go HONDA SPECIALIST REPAIR SHOPS.

Since then, I've had to replace two gaskets/seals (valve cover and oil filter housing) so far, but hopefully that will be the end that after I take care of whatever's wrong now...

As for me being "mechanically inclined," I only do the simple "bolt-on" stuff (fuel filter, tune-up, headers, etc.). I live in an apartment complex, and there are strict guidelines for car repairs, so right now I have to leave the "grease monkey" stuff to the shops...

So you're saying its OK to use ENGINE DYE?

I saw the Tracerline site, and it looks very helpful...

[lostforawhile]

I had my a20a3 rebuilt at Japanese Engines, a shop that specializes in engine rebuiding, back in Feburary of 2008. Everything at the time was good, NO LEAKS WHAT-SO-EVER...

Sometime around December of 2008, while doing a routine check on my car, I noticed the OIL LEVEL on my dipstick was far past the upper mark. At that time, I had went to PEP BOYS and let them do the oil change, and its possible they are the cause of my leak problems because they put too much damn oil in my car! When I confronted them, they denied everything, so now I only go HONDA SPECIALIST REPAIR SHOPS.

Since then, I've had to replace two gaskets/seals (valve cover and oil filter housing) so far, but hopefully that will be the end that after I take care of whatever's wrong now...

As for me being "mechanically inclined," I only do the simple "bolt-on" stuff (fuel filter, tune-up, headers, etc.). I live in an apartment complex, and there are strict guidelines for car repairs, so right now I have to leave the "grease monkey" stuff to the shops...

So you're saying its OK to use ENGINE DYE?

I saw the Tracerline site, and it looks very helpful...it won't hurt it a bit thats what it's designed to do, it makes the leaks glow with a blacklight is what it does.

[Ichiban]

I absolutely refuse to take any vehicle to a lube shop. They "can" employ braindead retards that will cross thread your pan plug, then hammer it in with an impact. You think they clean any of the dirt off around the plugs/filters/caps when they work on your car? It takes me 20 minutes to change oil, and that includes at least one beer and two smokes. No reason not to do it yourself.

[Dr_Snooz]

You'll do best if you avoid all shops. Especially if you're driving an old car. You can buy all the tools you need, screw it up, re-do it and still come out with less of a mess than if you take the car to a shop.

I'm assuming you've drained out the excess oil. If not, start there. It's possible the leak will fix itself.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yep die is fine in the correct quanties.

You may want to goto the dealership and get the correct gasket (washer) for your oil plug. I never found an aftermarket one that works. Its soft aluminium washers its not really reusable.


wp

[ecogabriel]

I absolutely refuse to take any vehicle to a lube shop. They "can" employ braindead retards that will cross thread your pan plug, then hammer it in with an impact. You think they clean any of the dirt off around the plugs/filters/caps when they work on your car? It takes me 20 minutes to change oil, and that includes at least one beer and two smokes. No reason not to do it yourself.

The only "difficulty" I found about oil change is getting to the oil filter. Since mine is EFI, I remove the air filter box to gain extra space and replace the filter from above.
Oil change is an ideal DIY thing; get one of those plastic oil change pans that have a screw-in cover -their capacity is perfect for our cars and makes easy to transfer the used oil to a case to dispose later. BEsides, the cover limits spills when removing the pan from underneath the car.
Before beginning, place a piece of plastic large enough to catch any spillover from when you remove the filter. Remove crankcase oil plug and let it drip for about 20 min. (you can go back inside your apt. in the meantime) get back, reinstall oil plug, remove oil filter, install new one, fill with oil and you are done. I did it in my previous place where theoretically I could not do "repairs"... never a problem.

OH, NEVER OVER-TORQUE THE drain plug; the fact that it has a big head does not mean that needs a lot of force. IF the threads get stripped, you are in for a big mess either getting a new oil pan or getting a tap and re-tapping the old pan (you'll need a bigger plug afterwards) either way you are in for a large expense or a big pain.
A new washer (Honda OEMs are as said here the best; I tried copper ones and they're crap) is necessary especially if you have never replaced it.

[lostforawhile]

and get a good filter the only decent one left seems to be wix, avoid fram like the swine flue, the bosch is now owned by a different company and is like the fram.

[TsubohachiLX-i]

Thanx for all the tips.

I'll take more initiative next time...

[w261w261]

When I change my oil, the first thing I now do is to take a new filter *and* the new oil and put them on top of the engine, when I take off the oil fill cap. I used to just put the oil up there, then a couple of changes ago, after I had removed the used oil and crawled out from under the car, I was about to put in the new oil, when something didn't seem quite right. Well, dumb ass me, I had forgotten to put in the new filter, which I remembered before....well, you can imagine the mess or worse what would have happened. I've changed my oil for years and years in many cars, and this was the first time for something like this, but it can happen to anyone.

I would never let an oil change place get their hands on my car. For that matter, I won't even let my mechanic get his hands on my spark plugs, and I trust him. Too much damage can be done in a moment of overtightening or cross threading, and it's us that have to pick up the pieces.

I'm a big believer in torque wrenches. You'll need two...one big one for wheel nuts and the like, and one small one, for spark plugs etc.

[2drSE-i]

When I change my oil, the first thing I now do is to take a new filter *and* the new oil and put them on top of the engine, when I take off the oil fill cap. I used to just put the oil up there, then a couple of changes ago, after I had removed the used oil and crawled out from under the car, I was about to put in the new oil, when something didn't seem quite right. Well, dumb ass me, I had forgotten to put in the new filter, which I remembered before....well, you can imagine the mess or worse what would have happened. I've changed my oil for years and years in many cars, and this was the first time for something like this, but it can happen to anyone.


Your getting OLD :kekeke:

But yea, Oil change places are the devil. They will fuck your car up at some point, and when you catch them, "It was like that when we got it."

[ecogabriel]

Your getting OLD :kekeke:

But yea, Oil change places are the devil. They will fuck your car up at some point, and when you catch them, "It was like that when we got it."

It is so f... easy to screw up on oil changes.
First, over-tightening and/or cross-threading oil pan plugs; a f... painful (and expensive) repair.
Second (and this one is even worse) use the wrong fluid. I'm not talking about using the wrong grade oil, no no no. I'm talking of topping of our power steering systems with non-Honda P/S fluid (bad bad bad) or using A/T fluid (even worse!!!). No need to talk about what may happen right?
Or topping off the main braking reservoir with A/T fluid, or P/S fluid. Immediate destruction of everything rubber in the braking system as that rubber DOES NOT LIKE petroleum-based fluids...

A guy once took his car to one of those places. Got it back but when popping open the hood he discovered that... he did not have the oil dipstick!!! Of course, when he went back they denied the dipstick was ever there (yeah, the guy in the Castrol ad took it... hahaha)... 40-50 bucks for a new dipstick...

Bottom line: oil changes (and especially them) but pretty much everything else on my "clunkers" is done by ME.

[ecogabriel]

Basically, all the seals that nswst8 lists above (with the exception of the rear main seal) are going to leak at this age. If you haven't replaced them yet, you probably will be doing so in the near future. I wouldn't worry too much about the rear main because it's hard to get to, doesn't often leak and when it looks like it's leaking, it's more likely your distributor oring.

It is unfortunate that my car does not read because my rear main seal was leaking far worse than those at the front badly :sad2: getting the transmission out to replace it was... was :beat:

My distributor oring did not leak :kekeke:... but my distributor shaft seal did :hmph:
It was so hard that it seemed to be made of wood :banghead:

OK, now that the fun is over, let's get serious (but not too much) Being our cars old, everything that is rubber or rubber-like is prone to leak. Same thing applies to wiring and connectors; they become brittle and may break easily

That is why it is important to replace every single seal and gasket that is accessible when doing repairs. If a mechanic performs a repair and neglects this I would say look for another mechanic. I took the Civic once for timing belt replacement (did not have place to work I was living on-campus) and told him there was a leak coming from inside the timing belt cover; he could not find it. When rebuilding the engine I saw the leak once I looked through the cam pulley (camshaft seal busted... 6 bucks at NAPA)...
How did I see it what the "professional" did not???? First and last stop at that shop; we left that town anyway.
Seals and gaskets are not worth the extra work of twice-disassembling components (e.g. timing belt).

Rear main seals seem to be less likely to leak. Maybe they are built stronger than front ones.
In any case, if one is doing clutch work or otherwise removing the transmission I would strongly advise to replace the rear seal even if it is not leaking.