TERRIBLE Oil leak, please help!!

[2drSE-i]

Alright, so after adding 3 quarts of oil for the second time, I'm SICK OF IT.

Here is what the car is going through. It currently has no PCV system hooked up, and its dripped a bit of oil for a while. I changed its oil a little over 1000 miles ago, and my oil light came on. Immediately pull over, hear some tapping from the valve cover, fill it back up with oil (took 3 quarts....i was pissed, but glad i keep a bunch in the trunk) and go on my way. A WEEK later, i check my oil, and it shows nearly empty AGAIN. Again, it took nearly 3 quarts (2 1/2). This was today. I jacked it up after filling it with oil, notice no (significant) drips, as i said, it leaks a bit anywho, no more than a quart between oil changes. I start the car, and within 10 seconds i have a significant leak. Not a stream, but a solid drip drip drip drip.


I checked around a bit, and this is what i have.
-Oil return hose from breather box to oil pan is fine. No leaks.
-No leaks from oil filter
-No leaks from oil filter base
-No leaks from Oil drain plug.
-No observable leaks from Oil pan. Initially it looks like this was the problem, but after looking at it, oil is running over the oil pan. There is oil on top of the "ridge" of the oil pan, if you understand what i'm talking about.


I spoke with Tim (lostforawhile) about it, and he seems to think that the O-ring from the breather box to the block is bad. Any other ideas? Thanks for the input!!


Edited to add:

Oil is flowing from over the oil pan, down the pan, and over the "hump" in the pan, and runs down near the drain plug, to the ground. It is also flowing down somewhere else (that i can't readily see) onto the exhaust. LOTS of smoke.

[lostforawhile]

Alright, so after adding 3 quarts of oil for the second time, I'm SICK OF IT.

Here is what the car is going through. It currently has no PCV system hooked up, and its dripped a bit of oil for a while. I changed its oil a little over 1000 miles ago, and my oil light came on. Immediately pull over, hear some tapping from the valve cover, fill it back up with oil (took 3 quarts....i was pissed, but glad i keep a bunch in the trunk) and go on my way. A WEEK later, i check my oil, and it shows nearly empty AGAIN. Again, it took nearly 3 quarts (2 1/2). This was today. I jacked it up after filling it with oil, notice no (significant) drips, as i said, it leaks a bit anywho, no more than a quart between oil changes. I start the car, and within 10 seconds i have a significant leak. Not a stream, but a solid drip drip drip drip.


I checked around a bit, and this is what i have.
-Oil return hose from breather box to oil pan is fine. No leaks.
-No leaks from oil filter
-No leaks from oil filter base
-No leaks from Oil drain plug.
-No observable leaks from Oil pan. Initially it looks like this was the problem, but after looking at it, oil is running over the oil pan. There is oil on top of the "ridge" of the oil pan, if you understand what i'm talking about.


I spoke with Tim (lostforawhile) about it, and he seems to think that the O-ring from the breather box to the block is bad. Any other ideas? Thanks for the input!!


Edited to add:

Oil is flowing from over the oil pan, down the pan, and over the "hump" in the pan, and runs down near the drain plug, to the ground. It is also flowing down somewhere else (that i can't readily see) onto the exhaust. LOTS of smoke.
how high is it leaking? cam seal leaking under the cover? what about the main? you said it's leaking from over the pan? what about the dizzy o ring? it could be leaking and oil is running down the block? you say it's leaking only when you start the car? are you sure it's not the oil filter base gasket? it's leaking under pressure, so it has to be pressurized seal somewhere. I didn't know all the info when i said it was the oil separator box o ring , with the pcv system disconnected that would rule that out.

[lostforawhile]

the reason I say the filter base gasket, is it's an O ring seal, if it's failing oil pressure could be forcing oil past it, then with no pressure it stops, it's also right over the exhaust pipe. where is the oil hitting the pipe? a leak will cause it to run down the back of the pan and drip right onto the pipe

[lostforawhile]

let me clarify, not the O ring on the filter itself, but the one on th base the filter screws into, you didn't just change a filter did you? i was thinking the filter O ring stuck to the filter base and you have one ring on top of another, normally they just dump out oil but sometimes they seal just enough to cause a bad leak

[2drSE-i]

well that last one is possible lost. i dont think its high enough to be distributor or cam seal, its low enough to where i cant see where its coming from at all. i really dont think its leaking from the oil filter but its an easy one to check so ill start there

[lostforawhile]

well that last one is possible lost. i dont think its high enough to be distributor or cam seal, its low enough to where i cant see where its coming from at all. i really dont think its leaking from the oil filter but its an easy one to check so ill start there

that filter base is a really common leak and you'll lose a lot of oil, it's a special O ring type gasket, that goes around all the passages in the filter base, it's not a bad fix from underneath, and the gasket is cheap. the main thing is to torque the bolts right and properly, if they are too tight it will squeeze the gasket and it will leak, once you get that oil pressure sender off it's not bad

[Rendon LX-i]

Could also be the rear main. has that been replace? those leak and run down to the pan and make it seem like its the pan when its not. BUt if it is. Its a bitch. I mean its not but lots of time

[2drSE-i]

that filter base is a really common leak and you'll lose a lot of oil, it's a special O ring type gasket, that goes around all the passages in the filter base, it's not a bad fix from underneath, and the gasket is cheap. the main thing is to torque the bolts right and properly, if they are too tight it will squeeze the gasket and it will leak, once you get that oil pressure sender off it's not bad
I have no loss of oil in/around or even near the oil filter or base. Surprising really, seeing as how its still the stock seal.

Could also be the rear main. has that been replace? those leak and run down to the pan and make it seem like its the pan when its not. BUt if it is. Its a bitch. I mean its not but lots of time


Nope, never been replaced to my knowledge. The head came off and was put back on a couple of years ago, would it have been replaced then?

[lostforawhile]

I have no loss of oil in/around or even near the oil filter or base. Surprising really, seeing as how its still the stock seal.



Nope, never been replaced to my knowledge. The head came off and was put back on a couple of years ago, would it have been replaced then?exactly where is the oil hitting the exhaust pipe?

[2drSE-i]

exactly where is the oil hitting the exhaust pipe?

Right after the downpipe, and it runs down toward the flex pipe (If the exhaust isnt hot enough to burn it...)

[Bass Man]

Oil pressure dummy light? It really sounds like it's coming from that area. If you hit those pressure switches wrong, you could crack the plastic in them and make them start leaking. I'm gonna go with Lost that it's the Oil filter o-ring. Good time to change the oil, or filter...

[lostforawhile]

Right after the downpipe, and it runs down toward the flex pipe (If the exhaust isnt hot enough to burn it...)

so it's leaking on the front of the block? center? towards the ends? you may have to take some time and scrub the block to get a better idea where it's coming from, pictures? you said it leaks when the engine is running, sounds like something under pressure

[2drSE-i]

so it's leaking on the front of the block? center? towards the ends? you may have to take some time and scrub the block to get a better idea where it's coming from, pictures? you said it leaks when the engine is running, sounds like something under pressure

definitely coming from the center, and definitely under pressure, on the rear of the block. Like i said before, theres just too much in the way to physically see where the leaking is coming from. I felt all around the oil filter and base and i just didnt feel or see any oil on my hands (except for the old dirt, etc.)

How much would yall guess it would cost me to get this fixed at a shop? Just don't have the tools or time to do this in my apartment parking lot, not to mention its FREAKIN COLD!!

[2drSE-i]

Oh,thanks alot guys, definitely helping!

[Bass Man]

Oh!!!! That sounds like that oil filtration box that's directly in the middle of the block. It's not under pressure, but it has to do with oil. Check that out too.

[lostforawhile]

definitely coming from the center, and definitely under pressure, on the rear of the block. Like i said before, theres just too much in the way to physically see where the leaking is coming from. I felt all around the oil filter and base and i just didnt feel or see any oil on my hands (except for the old dirt, etc.)

How much would yall guess it would cost me to get this fixed at a shop? Just don't have the tools or time to do this in my apartment parking lot, not to mention its FREAKIN COLD!!

if it drips like that under pressure and it's in the middle center of the block i'm certain it's the oil filter base gasket, thats the only thing back there that will leak that bad, if you are going to take it to a shop, get the gasket first, or your car will sit at the shop,while they order it from Honda, and probably charge you 2o bucks for a 5 dollar part. is there anyone near you that can help you? it's easy to do, but a lot of places are crooked and will charge you a fortune to do it.

[lostforawhile]

this is the back of the oil filter base, an O ring goes in the groove, it's under direct oil pressure from the pump, all the oil from the filter goes through there, thse will leak really bad under pressure, the higher the rpm, the more oil leaks. http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4020643-2.jpg
this is the entire base where the oil filter goes
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4020644-1.jpg

[2drSE-i]

OOOH thanks for the visual lost. That is more than likely it. Nobody is out this way though. So if i pick up this oring how much can you see them chargin?

[lostforawhile]

OOOH thanks for the visual lost. That is more than likely it. Nobody is out this way though. So if i pick up this oring how much can you see them chargin?

it's hard to say, a lot of time mechanics will overcharge on these old cars, they may give you a hard time on getting the part yourself too, but it's only available from Honda, I guess just call, explain you ordered the special o ring gasket from honda and it's factory only. on a rack I could do this job in ten minutes. I was going to have someone do my oil pan gasket once, just because i was in a hurry, the idiot tried to tell me if he changed the gasket, the engine would blow up because there would be no oil at the pickup, I guess he's never changed oil? good luck, see who has had work done and look for references

[headbanger]

it's hard to say, a lot of time mechanics will overcharge on these old cars, they may give you a hard time on getting the part yourself too, but it's only available from Honda, I guess just call, explain you ordered the special o ring gasket from honda and it's factory only. on a rack I could do this job in ten minutes. I was going to have someone do my oil pan gasket once, just because i was in a hurry, the idiot tried to tell me if he changed the gasket, the engine would blow up because there would be no oil at the pickup, I guess he's never changed oil? good luck, see who has had work done and look for references

lol

[nfs480]

I need to replace the oil filter base gasket on my se-i as well, but i'm scared to do it after my thermostat debacle (heads of both thermostat housing bolts snapped off). I'm worried about the heads on the oil filter base bolts snapping off and being that those are the exact same bolts as on the thermostat (same part number) and that they screw directly into the block, breaking those would basically be the end of my car for me.

[lostforawhile]

I need to replace the oil filter base gasket on my se-i as well, but i'm scared to do it after my thermostat debacle (heads of both thermostat housing bolts snapped off). I'm worried about the heads on the oil filter base bolts snapping off and being that those are the exact same bolts as on the thermostat (same part number) and that they screw directly into the block, breaking those would basically be the end of my car for me.
they shouldn't be that tight, i can't remember the toque spec, but you are tightening against an o ring gasket which doesn't take much torque, i didn't have any problems at all.

[Oldblueaccord]

I need to replace the oil filter base gasket on my se-i as well, but i'm scared to do it after my thermostat debacle (heads of both thermostat housing bolts snapped off). I'm worried about the heads on the oil filter base bolts snapping off and being that those are the exact same bolts as on the thermostat (same part number) and that they screw directly into the block, breaking those would basically be the end of my car for me.

Difference is they are in iron not aluminium so corrision should not be as bad as a problem.


wp

[nfs480]

they shouldn't be that tight, i can't remember the toque spec, but you are tightening against an o ring gasket which doesn't take much torque, i didn't have any problems at all.

I believe the torque spec for the thermostat was something like 7 ft-lbs and those bolt heads snapped off.


Difference is they are in iron not aluminium so corrision should not be as bad as a problem.


wp

That makes me feel a little better, but i'm still just a little nervous about attempting this repair, as easy as it should be.

[lostforawhile]

I believe the torque spec for the thermostat was something like 7 ft-lbs and those bolt heads snapped off.



That makes me feel a little better, but i'm still just a little nervous about attempting this repair, as easy as it should be.they must have corroded into the head, the ones on the back are steel bolts into an iron block, i even put threadlocker on mine because you don't want them backing out. there should be a couple of good threads on replacing that. I probably put mine on and took it off about ten times , i had to machine down the oil filter threads to fit my remote adaptor.

[w261w261]

I need to replace the oil filter base gasket on my se-i as well, but i'm scared to do it after my thermostat debacle (heads of both thermostat housing bolts snapped off). I'm worried about the heads on the oil filter base bolts snapping off and being that those are the exact same bolts as on the thermostat (same part number) and that they screw directly into the block, breaking those would basically be the end of my car for me.

I went after those oil filter base bolts a couple of years ago, and I'm sure that it was the first time since 1989 that anyone had put a wrench on them. You're right to be concerned, cause I'm pretty sure the motor would have to come out to fix a bolt that snapped off in the block. Mine were fine, but then again I've done the thermostat twice with no problems either.

I would say liberal applications of penetrating oil over a week and then don't go at them like Godzilla. Judging from the number of people that have done this repair, the problems have been few, so the odds are wit' you.

[lostforawhile]

I believe the torque spec for the thermostat was something like 7 ft-lbs and those bolt heads snapped off.



That makes me feel a little better, but i'm still just a little nervous about attempting this repair, as easy as it should be.
if yours is leaking you need to fix it, if the O ring gasket has gotten that bad, it's possible it could fail completely going down the road. If that happens you'll lose all your oil pressure. that O ring gasket is under the same pressure as the oil pump housing gasket.

[nfs480]

Right now i'm losing about 1/2 a quart every 3000 miles through that gasket, and I really do want to replace it, I'm just worried that i'm going to make problems worse by doing so.

[lostforawhile]

Right now i'm losing about 1/2 a quart every 3000 miles through that gasket, and I really do want to replace it, I'm just worried that i'm going to make problems worse by doing so.
only thing to worry about is the three bolts, unscrew the sender from the top, don't worry about the rubber boot over the sender, it's probably just shot anyway, i just ripped mine off. take off the sender, take out the three bolts and it comes right off. when you put the new o ring gasket in, put a little bit of Vaseline on it to hold it to the oil filter base. it will just dissolve in the oil, and won't affect the gasket sealing. torque the three bolts properly and it's done. it's really easy to do.
here's another thread on this same problem
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61745
here's my setup
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020317-1.jpg

[car6289]

Lost:

Do you call your hood an engine cowl? Your setup looks great but it reminds me of that evil four letter word, work. :banghead: