Why did we get the flip-up lights?

[w261w261]

Why did the USA and Canada and I guess others? get the flip-up lights, while most of the rest of the world got no-flip?

[Edison Carasio]

I'm sure Honda did lots of polling and research to determine what style would sell best in it's respective market.

[2oodoor]

cabin fever W261? :D
I imagine that question has a speculated answer here somewhere.

Why didn't we get Aerodecks but we did get CRX? Those have flipped lids, and Aerodecks didn't come with JDM facia that I know of.

There are RHD and LHD Aerodecks so what was the deal I wonder.

There were quite a few "test market" 3rd gen models too if you stop and list them.

I wonder how much weight you shave between the two different facias. What is the difference between stamped steel parts that make up the flipped cars, maybe a production or shipping cost was in mind?

[itzdave]

and why didnt japan get the 3g hatch, when the hatches were only made in japan...

[2drSE-i]

There are so many models/submodels/facelift models/and body types that i don't think we will ever get a real answer. Not to mention different options and standard items for the different markets.

[charliekuney]

There were quite a few "test market" 3rd gen models too if you stop and list them.


There are so many models/submodels/facelift models/and body types...

I want names. Are you talking about like the 2.0Si / F1 / SuperStage?

[DBMaster]

It could have a little to do with the fact that in the 80's the US DOT was still struggling over the whole composite headlight issue. I had some aftermarket headlights for my old Pontiac that used H4 bulbs. One inspection place actually failed the car because the lights didn't have DOT approval. We were definitely behind the rest of the world where headlights were concerned in the 80's.

[2drSE-i]

we are talkin about the F1, exclusive, import edition, super stage, 2.0si, etc etc etc. lots of cool ones that i cant even remember at the top of my head. maybe we should start compiling some of this info.

[2oodoor]

good one DBmaster, ugh ford taurus comes to mind...hrmm conspiracy discussion there>
robocop I:toilet:

O Charlie, those are to name a few, corrrrrect sir

[AccordB20A]

i reckon they make a car look like what the rest of the cars in that country look like. the tails of an american accord look like other american cars if you squint your eyes real hard. jap cars allways seem to have a flasher look about them than others, and euro cars allways seem to look weird/boring to me, thats prolly why they made fixed headlight accord, they look weird to me in certain colours like white.

[dacantu]

euro cars always seem to look weird/boring to me, thats prolly why they made fixed headlight accord, they look weird to me in certain colours like white.

agreed. i think they look ugly in white. but they look great on the greatdanes champagne colored accord.

[Civic Accord Honda]

grey fixed head light sedans are the best looking 3gees.

[AccordB20A]

^^only to you cause you guys dont get fixed headlights, over here they are common and i still prefer popups over anything

[Edison Carasio]

White G's > other colors.

[frantik]

It could have a little to do with the fact that in the 80's the US DOT was still struggling over the whole composite headlight issue. I had some aftermarket headlights for my old Pontiac that used H4 bulbs. One inspection place actually failed the car because the lights didn't have DOT approval. We were definitely behind the rest of the world where headlights were concerned in the 80's.

this is what i've always thought was the main reason. don't 2geez have different headlights too?

as for all of the cool models that they got in japan and the b20 and all that crap.. here in the US in the 80s Honda was seen as more of a budget brand. That's why the Acura brand was created, so that Honda could sell higher end vehicles in the US. outside of the US, Honda sold Acura models as Hondas

[charliekuney]

grey fixed head light sedans are the best looking 3gees.

Which would look exactly like a grey-colored version of our second-generation Legend, would it not?

[frantik]

more like 1st gen legend.. though the legend is slightly bigger

speaking of legend, it does have fixed headlights, so maybe it was something to do with production costs or who knows what

[carotman]

Honda created Acura so it could bypass the importation quotasRonald Reagan had put on Foreing vehicles.

Different brand, separate quotas.

[Rendon LX-i]

I love my pop ups....i stand out of the crowd...everyone has fixed head lghts...plus i cant tell when your car is tired LOL

[carotman]

Before importing vehicules, they make market studies.

I guess people prefered the pop-up lights.

[ghettogeddy]

:werd:
Before importing vehicules, they make market studies.

I guess people prefered the pop-up lights.

i know i do

[lostforawhile]

the main reason was the coefficient of drag and fuel economy, the cars have very low drag with the lights down.

[w261w261]

Thinking about it, I imagine that each country or sales region has a decision-making process about what models will be sold there. In the USA, we have had hidden lights on many cars since probably the later 60's...and the lower Cd was a bonus. We didn't get the plethora of gadgets that the JDM received, and (unfortunately, really unfortunately) we were deemed not worthy of the B engine. I remember when the 4G was introduced with it's fixed lights, a writer inquired about the increase in Cd, and the Honda rep said basically we gave up some fraction of an mpg for style. We're all fashion slaves anyhow.

[lostforawhile]

this is what i've always thought was the main reason. don't 2geez have different headlights too?

as for all of the cool models that they got in japan and the b20 and all that crap.. here in the US in the 80s Honda was seen as more of a budget brand. That's why the Acura brand was created, so that Honda could sell higher end vehicles in the US. outside of the US, Honda sold Acura models as Hondasthe civic was the low end budget car here in the eighties, the accord was built to compete with higher end cars, and the prelude was the high end sporty car. the accord has always been viewed as a higher end car, compare a civic of the same year next to an accord same year, and you can see how much work went into the Accord. even a first generation is way above a civic of the same year. I wish I could find the book about the dealer wars during the eighties, people stood in line to get these cars, and often paid well above sticker. There were stories of even simple accessories like floor mats selling for hundreds of dollars.

[dacantu]

the civic was the low end budget car here in the eighties, the accord was built to compete with higher end cars, and the prelude was the high end sporty car. the accord has always been viewed as a higher end car, compare a civic of the same year next to an accord same year, and you can see how much work went into the Accord. even a first generation is way above a civic of the same year. I wish I could find the book about the dealer wars during the eighties, people stood in line to get these cars, and often paid well above sticker. There were stories of even simple accessories like floor mats selling for hundreds of dollars.

And what was the Acura NSX? it had flip ups also.

[ghettogeddy]

And what was the Acura NSX? it had flip ups also.

there sports car. flips ups were used for less drag

[lostforawhile]

And what was the Acura NSX? it had flip ups also.

the NSX was in it's own class, it's considered a supercar. you can't even get major body damage fixed here,it has to be shipped back to Japan. They were supposed to compete with the Italian and European supercars

[dacantu]

whoa cool! i didnt know that. my old boss owned a 91 nsx in black. it was awfully sexy he let me drive it once around the block. it sure was scary

[lostforawhile]

yea lots of power, aluminum space frame, and rear wheel drive. They say Honda lost money on every one, but the point was for them to be an image for the company.

[lostforawhile]

here's the Wiki, happy drooling. the NSX prototype had flip ups in 84 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_NSX

Honda designed them to compete with Ferrari from day one.

[w261w261]

<< I wish I could find the book about the dealer wars during the eighties, people stood in line to get these cars, and often paid well above sticker. There were stories of even simple accessories like floor mats selling for hundreds of dollars >>

In some regions at that time Accords and Preludes were in very short supply. Dealers were charging several hundred dollars for floor mats, or "paint treatment," or "rustproofing." Sometimes the dealer markup was $1,500, a lot for a $15k car. A few years ago I bought an '87 LX-i hatch from the original owner, and it came with the purchase paperwork. There it was...$1500 in additional charges.

In 1985 I ordered a Prelude. The Westport CT Honda dealer "only" marked it up by $500, and the list was $15,500. There was no car that I could drive, I had to leave a $300 (refundable) deposit, and when the car came in I could take it or not, they didn't care, as the line stretched out behind me. After a month or so, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a '73 BMW 3.0CS coupe for a bargain $9k, and used the rest of the $15k to buy a '79 Bronco for $6k.

It came out later that during those years, dealers were paying off people in the Honda distribution network to get higher allocations. The car was just shit hot. It benefited both from being a superlative piece of engineering, and having to go up against...not much.

[charliekuney]

My first coupe listed for $14,995 (so says the original sticker) but the receipt said something close to $18k. He had the car special ordered, though. I guess he wanted a coupe really bad, and there weren't any in the state (Virginia).

[2oodoor]

I was one of those to left the deposit and got tired of waiting as well. Bought a POS mustang, oh gawd what a mistake that was, young and dumb.