D Series Swap...

[Insane43]

ive been wondering if it would be possible to swap a D series into my car?? and if it is how hard would it be to do?

[89T]

no.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Lol man you talking less power and a lil engine hahaha and no it won't fit come bro the accord ain't a civic haha do with the b16 swap now that's a engine for the accords and integra

[accordion89]

new engine with better fuel economy, maybe a twin cam, sounds cool to me

[Civic Accord Honda]

anything is possble lol, atleast with the D you get aftermarket...

[A18A]

if thats all you can get & ur current motor is dead, then you can make it work

[cubert]

Lol man you talking less power and a lil engine hahaha and no it won't fit come bro the accord ain't a civic haha do with the b16 swap now that's a engine for the accords and integra


I hate to burst your bubble, but the D16Z6 makes more hp, and only a little less tq than the A20 that is currently in his car....and the D16Y8 closes the tq gap even more, while adding to the Hp gap.


Still a useless swap though....

[ShyBoyCA6]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the D16z6 makes more hp, and only a little less tq than the A20 that is currently in his car....


Still a useless swap though....
yeah like what like a 10 or 20hp difference lol and plus that engine probably be the same as the a20 cause the accord is heavier than the civic lol do the math

[ShyBoyCA6]

heres a link to the d series engine specs

http://www.knology.net/~jediklc/specs.htm

well heres another list of all the honda motors for you peeps that are into engine swaps
http://www.gtcars.ca/online/honda-acura/1140-honda-engine-list-specs.html

[cubert]

yeah like what like a 10 or 20hp difference lol and plus that engine probably be the same as the a20 cause the accord is heavier than the civic lol do the math

LXi Hatchback (MT) 2454lbs (spec taken straight from this site)


1995 Honda Civic EX CPE (MT) 2443lbs (D16Z6)

1996 Honda Civic EX CPE (MT) 2483lbs (D16Y8)




You're right...the Accord is such a heavyweight compared to the Civic....I better check my numbers next time :rolleyes:

[Civic Accord Honda]

the engine is lighter and makes more power so it would be faster then the a
if i was going to do a swap in a 3g i wouldnt pick the d tho lol, but do what you want :p

[ShyBoyCA6]

LXi Hatchback (MT) 2454lbs (spec taken straight from this site)


1995 Honda Civic EX CPE (MT) 2443lbs (D16Z6)

1996 Honda Civic EX CPE (MT) 2483lbs (D16Y8)





You're right...the Accord is such a heavyweight compared to the Civic....I better check my numbers next time :rolleyes: well i thought he had a sedan or coupe lol but hatch is good

well he could swap it and do some weight reduction and maybe be up there... i went up againt my friend with his civic with a d16z6 with turbo and my car was stock and wouldnt even reach its power so it was like a street drag race from light to light but i admit the d16z6 sounds nice with the turbo

[Insane43]

alright thanks guys the reason i was going to do the D series is because my friend had one and was getting rid of it and my car has 250xxx miles on it =/ but i also have an Ls motor which i think would be the better choice but it seems like it would be kind of spendy??

[Insane43]

and a D16 Turbo Build just sounds kinda nice but then again id rather have a DOHC Ls/vtec turbo build hahaha but im what you like to call broke:sad2:

[Tomisimo]

there is no replacement for displacement!! 1.6L will never be as strong as lets say 2.0 or 2.2. The fact of the matter is that there is no point in swapping and spend all that time and money on something like Dseries. If you CAN do it, then go and do B18C at least or H22.
I dont want to burst your bobble here, but if you were serious and had the skil, you'dd cam here and asked some details about wiring or axles, not if its possible to swap. Anything is possible.

[2oodoor]

there is no replacement for displacement!! 1.6L will never be as strong as lets say 2.0 or 2.2. The fact of the matter is that there is no point in swapping and spend all that time and money on something like Dseries. If you CAN do it, then go and do B18C at least or H22.
I dont want to burst your bobble here, but if you were serious and had the skil, you'dd cam here and asked some details about wiring or axles, not if its possible to swap. Anything is possible.

Very well stated sir. :werd:

[Civic Accord Honda]

There are many D's out there kicking B's/H's asses ....

[ShyBoyCA6]

is that so??

[2oodoor]

There are many D's out there kicking B's/H's asses ....

sounds like counter intellegence,
\









on a counta that wasa notta intellegent... bawww hahaa

[cubert]

is that so??

I know...with Ds running into the 10s this idea is so tough to believe...

[Tomisimo]

There are many D's out there kicking B's/H's asses ....

1% od Dseries beats B/Hseries,
99% B/H series beats 99% D series..

now thats tru. Im sure there is some but far less ppl stupid anough to spend awfull load of money on SOCK 1.6l

[Insane43]

and i forgot to say its a D16y8 vtec with headers cold air intake

[ShyBoyCA6]

Hmm true on that d series isn't the best motor unless you have the money for the sick tuning and time it will take.... but a turbo d series might beat the h22 but the d16y8 has like what 127hp and the b20 like 130hp? Correct me if I'm wrong cause I'm on my cell

[Tomisimo]

it depends on what B20 we talking about. the B20z engines make 150Hp, B20a makes 136Hp or JDMv makes 160Hp. B20z with B18c head makes 220Hp aprox.

[lostforawhile]

most want surgery to make it bigger not smaller.

[Insane43]

most want surgery to make it bigger not smaller.

haha yea true but i just wanna go faster.... and even if i do end up doing this D series which i doubt i will it would only be temp for about a year or soo but i might bypass this whole thing and just put an ls motor as i said before tho im afriad its just gunna end up costing me a shitload of money thats my main concern

[2drSE-i]

I'm not here to shit on you, but I'll put in what i know.

D motors, for the amount of work involved to swap into our cars, just isn't worth it, unless you go for a crazy build.

Now when people say "No replacement for displacement" (Not picking on you tomismo) I tend to react. Even our motors are putting out 60 HP per Liter. Compare that to a chevy big block, and we kick their asses.

Now, on to fast D's vs. Fast B's. Yes, displacement is a disadvantage. But the D Motors have a FAR superior head configuration, as well as combustion chamber, and have just as much potential for power. See the Bisimoto 700HP D build. Yes, extreme for a daily driver, but a daily driver none-the-less.

Not to take anything away from B/H/K/J/CDEFG motors, plenty of them making CRAZY power too. Also, tomismo is right in saying that not many people play with D motors like that. Its WAY easier to go with a "better" motor.

[Civic Accord Honda]

1% od Dseries beats B/Hseries,
99% B/H series beats 99% D series..

now thats tru. Im sure there is some but far less ppl stupid anough to spend awfull load of money on SOCK 1.6l

actually there are far more faster Ds then you would think... It cheaper in the long run to build a D if you have a civic for one... No need to buy expensive mounts, and building a 400hp turbo monster D is alot cheaper then building a 300hp B and buying mounts and shit...

and why is ok for people with 2.0s to knock on a 1.6 , but when someone with a 5.0 knocks on a 2.0 you guys rage like theres no tomorrow ... seriously getting tired of reading this forum ...

[Insane43]

:)thank you.. now u seem to know what ur talking about haha now im gunna ask you guys this if you dont mind.. whats the best bang for the buck for me to just to take my a20a3 and build that... or put a B18 in my car these have been the 3 things ive been considering and since u guys seem to strongly disagree with the D series (thanks for helping BTW) :) soo those are my 2 choices im left with

[Civic Accord Honda]

since the mounts are apparently made for the B and the A has no aftermarket just swap in a B and your be happier (btw you better be good at wiring or wanting to learn and i hope you have another car to drive while the accord is down)

[Insane43]

since the mounts are apparently made for the B and the A has no aftermarket just swap in a B and your be happier (btw you better be good at wiring or wanting to learn and i hope you have another car to drive while the accord is down)

alright thanks man youve been a lot of help

[stat1K]

alright thanks man youve been a lot of help

haha omg, i think he may put this in his sig as you're probably the only person to ever say this ever!

[2drSE-i]

and why is ok for people with 2.0s to knock on a 1.6 , but when someone with a 5.0 knocks on a 2.0 you guys rage like theres no tomorrow ... seriously getting tired of reading this forum ...

Because its one of the very few times our old accords have the bigger dick


:D

[Civic Accord Honda]

alright thanks man youve been a lot of help no problem..


haha omg, i think he may put this in his sig as you're probably the only person to ever say this ever!
LOL haha :P ive heard it a dozen times ... :P

Because its one of the very few times our old accords have the bigger dick


:D

My accord has a bigger dick then yours :D
it also has a 4" gaping ass hole O_O

[2drSE-i]

My accord has a bigger dick then yours :D
it also has a 4" gaping ass hole O_O

Oh dear, a bit stretched out is it? Did your accord go to jail?

[Civic Accord Honda]

Oh dear, a bit stretched out is it? Did your accord go to jail?

Yep... Got ass raped by a bunch of V8s

[Insane43]

mmm i so glad this is how my thread ended.... lol:sad2:

[2drSE-i]

mmm i so glad this is how my thread ended.... lol:sad2:

LOL yea sorry bud, this one went south pretty quick.

[lostforawhile]

Because its one of the very few times our old accords have the bigger dick


:D

na the bigger one is the one driving the rustang

http://thefurtiveglance.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/rim-shot-johnny-utah.jpg

[stat1K]

i've always wanted to d-swap a 3g hatch because of all the haters here... i just would find it amusing.

[2ndGenGuy]

Now when people say "No replacement for displacement" (Not picking on you tomismo) I tend to react. Even our motors are putting out 60 HP per Liter. Compare that to a chevy big block, and we kick their asses.

But a big block Chevy will still kick our asses. So who cares about Horsepower per Liter? I don't understand what relevance the HP/L has. I tend to agree with the "No replacement for displacement" saying, and have to back Tomismo's statement. Even look at the D-series, it needs all sorts of technology to give it as much power as the A-series (VTEC, 16 valves, etc).

[accordion89]

I want to see a dodge neon motor swap, a 3g with big mopar stickers on it :)

[Tomisimo]

indeed 2ndGenGuy.. our engines have the biggest disadvantage in the head, the ports are just to small and valves cant give it enough air, the same goes for B20a, in edition it has 4 more valves but the ports are still to small. Valves capable of suporting 270Hp on those but only with head port ex&in sides.
Being a SOCH D16 is for the first its a short stroke engine, it just never will torq as A20. With proper headwork on A20 and stronger valves and if you manage to find cam bearings that are stronger it will rew up to 8-9k with no problems, just give it enough air.

My conclusion is that if you have 1k USD on B18, then 400USD on axles, 400$ on clutch converter etc etc. total 2-2500¤ to spend on a proper build, then you can just as likely spend that money on A20 and boost it, it will be cheaper and stronger engine overall.

[lostforawhile]

indeed 2ndGenGuy.. our engines have the biggest disadvantage in the head, the ports are just to small and valves cant give it enough air, the same goes for B20a, in edition it has 4 more valves but the ports are still to small. Valves capable of suporting 270Hp on those but only with head port ex&in sides.
Being a SOCH D16 is for the first its a short stroke engine, it just never will torq as A20. With proper headwork on A20 and stronger valves and if you manage to find cam bearings that are stronger it will rew up to 8-9k with no problems, just give it enough air.

My conclusion is that if you have 1k USD on B18, then 400USD on axles, 400$ on clutch converter etc etc. total 2-2500¤ to spend on a proper build, then you can just as likely spend that money on A20 and boost it, it will be cheaper and stronger engine overall.plus there's some pride in these old iron block engines. and in owning an iron block Honda in general.

[labeledsk8r]

and i forgot to say its a D16y8 vtec with headers cold air intake

get me the intake manifold and mayby the header

[stat1K]

indeed 2ndGenGuy.. our engines have the biggest disadvantage in the head, the ports are just to small and valves cant give it enough air, the same goes for B20a, in edition it has 4 more valves but the ports are still to small. Valves capable of suporting 270Hp on those but only with head port ex&in sides.
Being a SOCH D16 is for the first its a short stroke engine, it just never will torq as A20. With proper headwork on A20 and stronger valves and if you manage to find cam bearings that are stronger it will rew up to 8-9k with no problems, just give it enough air.

My conclusion is that if you have 1k USD on B18, then 400USD on axles, 400$ on clutch converter etc etc. total 2-2500¤ to spend on a proper build, then you can just as likely spend that money on A20 and boost it, it will be cheaper and stronger engine overall.


see but the problem is, put 2500 into the a20 on all custom built parts, then one fails... have fun replacing it... i'm not arguing with your points but if bisimoto can build a 700hp d16 then you could really make an a20 go pretty fast... the whole point is for a casual tuner like myself, someone who's not always interested in going the fastest and being the most unique, the a20 lacks easy aftermarket like a b18, so in the end i'd rather build an LS motor and later on do an LS/VTEC built and possibly turbo it rather than going all out on an older engine and taking my chances braking a 1 off part... just my 2 cents.

and the replacement for displacement is to add it with a HUGE turbo :)

[Rendon LX-i]

d is for a civic......its not strong enough to haul a 3g.....UNLESS built......thats why they put a 2.0 in a accord. an 2.2,

im just saying hehe........

[ShyBoyCA6]

na the bigger one is the one driving the rustang

http://thefurtiveglance.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/rim-shot-johnny-utah.jpg

Yo lost I hope you mean shitstang lol

[stat1K]

d is for a civic......its not strong enough to haul a 3g.....UNLESS built......thats why they put a 2.0 in a accord. an 2.2,

im just saying hehe........

and the weight of the cars were already posted, i'm just saying ...

[ShyBoyCA6]

and the weight of the cars were already posted, i'm just saying ...

Yeah but only posted the hatch what about the coupe or sedans wieght?

[Tomisimo]

Coupe is heavier than Sedan for sure. Well if you swap a 1.6L then go B16.. more potential in the long run

[Nio]

Yeah but only posted the hatch what about the coupe or sedans wieght?

well after some searching, it says the 86-89 sedan LX weighed around 2529...

[AccordEpicenter]

somebody did a b16 swap into an accord (was it oldschoolswap?) anyway, he could only run mid 15s with that setup. For the same money, i was into the 13s on a stock engine. My built engine uses mostly off the shelf parts, except for the pistons were custom made, but they are on stock B18a/b sized eagle rods, that and the headwork/intake manfold. Stock crank, off the shelf headstuds, oil pump, gaskets etc. There is no point in swapping to a D series in an accord, just no point. Going B series can get you good results but its very expensive, and then your still not even gaining that much power really, your gonna have to mod that engine to start making real power... Turbo A series is the way to go for bang for your buck

[Civic Accord Honda]

i've always wanted to d-swap a 3g hatch because of all the haters here... I just would find it amusing.
+1



d is for a civic......its not strong enough to haul a 3g.....unless built......thats why they put a 2.0 in a accord. An 2.2,

im just saying hehe........



lxi hatchback (mt) 2454lbs (spec taken straight from this site)


1995 honda civic ex cpe (mt) 2443lbs (d16z6)

1996 honda civic ex cpe (mt) 2483lbs (d16y8)




you're right...the accord is such a heavyweight compared to the civic....i better check my numbers next time :rolleyes:

[stat1K]

1988 Honda Accord LXi CPE MT 2551
1988 Honda Accord LX Sedan MT 2482
1989 Honda Accord DX CPE MT 2493
1989 Honda Accord DX Sedan MT 2595

as you can see those are all pretty close right? the heaviest is the sei sedan at 2700, and again some of that weight will be in the motor, about 100 extra lbs...

so if you take an lxi coupe and swap it, it's roughly the same as an ex coupe for the 95 civic... any more questions?

[accordion89]

Coupe is heavier than Sedan for sure. Well if you swap a 1.6L then go B16.. more potential in the long run

thats weird, doors must be heavy

[ShyBoyCA6]

Don't forget engine weight from a D and A seriers

[accordion89]

if anyone plans to puts a d15 in their accord, i need another a20 :)

[ShyBoyCA6]

if anyone plans to puts a d15 in their accord, i need another a20 :)

Lol I thought it a d16?

[lostforawhile]

Yo lost I hope you mean shitstang lol

rustang, shitstang, same car different shit. :rockon:

[ShyBoyCA6]

rustang, shitstang, same car different shit. :rockon:

Lol yup I can't stand shitstangs the ass holes that drive them only pick on the slower cars that just proves they are Pussys and they have lots of problems haha

[accordion89]

Lol I thought it a d16?

honda made a d15

[ShyBoyCA6]

honda made a d15
yeah I know bro they mad D series from 1.3 thru 1.7 engine but best one is the D16 with decent power


And to the guy that wanted the swap...the swap you want is a b16 trust me you'll be happy with the results

[accordion89]

Naw, all i'm saying is I would never swap a d in the 3g, a20 works fine

and yes, b16 would be my choice if money was not a issue, because its the smallest engine with decent aftermarket

[stat1K]

yeah I know bro they mad D series from 1.3 thru 1.7 engine but best one is the D16 with decent power


And to the guy that wanted the swap...the swap you want is a b16 trust me you'll be happy with the results


so no comment on my post? didn't think so...

and what do you mean engine weight from d-a... i addressed this as well, you clearly don't speak english very well. must be the californian in you...

[accordion89]

^lol, getting tense

[ShyBoyCA6]

so no comment on my post? didn't think so...

and what do you mean engine weight from d-a... i addressed this as well, you clearly don't speak english very well. must be the californian in you...

not to be a dick but if you gonna quote at least quote the right one lol

[ShyBoyCA6]

1988 Honda Accord LXi CPE MT 2551
1988 Honda Accord LX Sedan MT 2482
1989 Honda Accord DX CPE MT 2493
1989 Honda Accord DX Sedan MT 2595

as you can see those are all pretty close right? the heaviest is the sei sedan at 2700, and again some of that weight will be in the motor, about 100 extra lbs...

so if you take an lxi coupe and swap it, it's roughly the same as an ex coupe for the 95 civic... any more questions?

yeah i know i saw it dont worry

[stat1K]

lawl, be a dick all you want i clicked multi quote and my browser didn't do it, sorry i use google chrome...

as for this thread i want to see it to completion! :)

oh and my d-series is faster than 9 out of 10 cars on 3geez... i know because one of the better cars here, lx-incredibles car is slower than mine, as said by the owner himself. :-\

[Insane43]

well yeaa i could rebuild my a20 i definately wouldnt mind it but if i do keep it i have to rebuilld it it has 250xxx miles on it which is ridiculous

[ShyBoyCA6]

lawl, be a dick all you want i clicked multi quote and my browser didn't do it, sorry i use google chrome...

as for this thread i want to see it to completion! :)

oh and my d-series is faster than 9 out of 10 cars on 3geez... i know because one of the better cars here, lx-incredibles car is slower than mine, as said by the owner himself. :-\

hmmm yup i have google chrome too and of course its faster then the a series and back then a series was on near the top but you cant argue with 120hp on the 88 and 89 give some props that they have a good engine haha i know i love my a20a3 she hasnt failed yet and feels healthy even though the body has 335xxx on it

[labeledsk8r]

hmmm yup i have google chrome too and of course its faster then the a series and back then a series was on near the top but you cant argue with 120hp on the 88 and 89 give some props that they have a good engine haha i know i love my a20a3 she hasnt failed yet and feels healthy even though the body has 335xxx on it

hate to say it but by the time the accord started getting the A motor it was allready being outdated, it was top of its line back in the prelude but by the time it made it to the accord bigger things were being done at honda,

dont get me rong i love the A motor, but love doesnt make sometihng old, new again

[Rendon LX-i]

BUT im just saying LOL.........w/e swap he/she wants to do then let em do it. Pat its all good man. 100 lbs is a 100lbs. weight is weight. ....B series is better if you want to do a swap thats a 1.6

[ShyBoyCA6]

hate to say it but by the time the accord started getting the A motor it was allready being outdated, it was top of its line back in the prelude but by the time it made it to the accord bigger things were being done at honda,

dont get me rong i love the A motor, but love doesnt make sometihng old, new again

yeah true forgot about the lude and the motor well yeah i know it can be new again all you can do is take care of it and rebuild it and hope its last a bit more

[AccordB20A]

a d powered accord would be interesting alright and probably really good on fuel. id choose a dohc zc as the shitbox single cam engines are made for economy not speed even tho they make good power for what they are

personally wouldnt spend money to get one in my accord tho id upgrade to an H22a but my factory b20a will do me fine

[Nio]

I had the D17A2 in my last car. >.> Truly I wouldn't mind putting in this one. It was a great engine. and ran 17 stock. :P

[stat1K]

^ and that's in a n em2 with a shitty geared transmission. the d17 is kind of a bastard what with it's 1.7l and coilpacks... it's a good little motor because it's still really simple to work on it's just all that egr bullshit that i hate and the vertical throttle body shit that started with dpfi and continued into the d17's.

[Nio]

^ and that's in a n em2 with a shitty geared transmission. the d17 is kind of a bastard what with it's 1.7l and coilpacks... it's a good little motor because it's still really simple to work on it's just all that egr bullshit that i hate and the vertical throttle body shit that started with dpfi and continued into the d17's.

Yea I hated that damn vertical throttle body, Bloody thing sucked ass. :O

I was going to do a D16y8 intake manifold conversion, But I decided to just get this car instead and actually have more fun. :P

And I know the gearing was off. But I still loved how I could get her to 125 on the highway. >.> right now I can't get my accord to 80...

[tuxdreamerx]

CAH Just acts like he knows what hes talking about LMAO. Bet no one remembers me.

[stat1K]

i got an accord to 117mph stock, it did well too, didn't really sound to float anything and wasn't all the way maxed on the rpm... it just didn't have anymore gusto. lol... my crx that had a d15 i got up to 120 on more than one occasion.

[tuxdreamerx]

I got my accord up to 120 one time, or two.

[Tomisimo]

You guys just admitted few things that are problems with that D engine, first of gearing and D17 having that TB. Why o why go tru so much hustle just to gain same amount of power. yes its cheap scrap engine you get for free just take it, but is it worth it? NO.. if you going to swap anything, the best option is a B16a from DA integra or B20b/z and do LS/Vtec head swap. same amount of work with bigger gain. after all, those B20b engines is everywhere.

[stat1K]

because the d17 is, as i called it, a bastard. the d16y8 and d16z6 are both short geared transmissions with 130hp and about 110ft lbs of torque, neither have verticle throttle bodies, nor restrictive exhausts.

a member on d-series named bone or transzex has dyno'd a poor mans d15b7 built to have 130 WHP with just a cam and some timing advance, so imagine what one could do with a vtec motor or a 1.6 non-v over the 1.5... i have this build in my car right now, b7 block, sohc zc head with the zc cam which is slightly more agressive than the a6 cam used in bone's build. so we can debate this all day, of course a b-motor is going to be a better swap in the long run, that was also stated. and your counter argument is about a motor that wasn't even the one mentioned.

[labeledsk8r]

ad the D16y7 to the basterd list, it also has the same vertical intake many and an exhaust many thats mostly a log manifold to a catilatic converter, good for a whoping stock rated HP of 98 LOL

[Tomisimo]

sure.. we can argue here all day and night.. its getting pointless because we covered so to say all bases in this thread...
Well, I dont hate D-series engine, just look at it as a average engine Honda build for economy use in short based civics. to move ppl around. its not a tuner engine. I think most members will agree on this one..
I'm trying to say that any engine with proper build will perform, even A series will..

[ShyBoyCA6]

sure.. We can argue here all day and night.. Its getting pointless because we covered so to say all bases in this thread...
Well, i dont hate d-series engine, just look at it as a average engine honda build for economy use in short based civics. To move ppl around. Its not a tuner engine. I think most members will agree on this one..
I'm trying to say that any engine with proper build will perform, even a series will..

+1

[stat1K]

right but a proper build from an a will cost you ten times the amount for what you could put down with a d.

case closed.

and yes the y5 had the verticle throttle body, my favorite motor is honestly the z1, the d15z1 had roller rockers and vtec-e, 12v normal driving 16v WO. plus it used beefy rods like the 1.6, similar in the bottom end to a d15b vtec from japan and europe but with a head all it's own... pretty neat little design.

as for the debate it's quite pointless, we've had it on a number of occasions, it all comes down to the OP not doing anything.

[Civic Accord Honda]

CAH Just acts like he knows what hes talking about LMAO. Bet no one remembers me.

holy shit man i haven't seen you signed on here in ages :lol:

[AccordEpicenter]

right but a proper build from an a will cost you ten times the amount for what you could put down with a d.

case closed.


i seriously doubt that, parts cost about the same. Plus stock d series rods are weaker than weak, A series rods are much beefier.

[ShyBoyCA6]

stat1k case is open again lol

[2drSE-i]

right but a proper build from an a will cost you ten times the amount for what you could put down with a d.

case closed.


i seriously doubt that, parts cost about the same. Plus stock d series rods are weaker than weak, A series rods are much beefier.

Not to beat a dead horse, But i think stat1k is slightly right. For hp/$ ratio, the D series will net quite a bit more. Not 10 times, but yea, more. A mild turbo build on stockish parts, the A motor trumps the D by a mile, but for a good 250HP N/A build, a D will be cheaper. The head flows way better stock, not to mention the extra exhaust valve, and the availability of aftermarket will make it a ton cheaper. Custom parts aren't cheap I'm afraid.

With that being said, I feel like the A-motor is a rock solid, closed deck, monster of a motor. While not exactly the most stable, balanced honda motor ever made, these blocks were built to hold power/boost and be reliable doing it too.

[AccordEpicenter]

Im not a d series hater by any means, but how many people have you seen making 250hp NA on a d series, without nitrous? Sure, they might exist, but at what cost? The only real way to make power with either engine is to boost it, and yes, the head does flow better, but stock for stock, your better off boosting a stock A series than a stock D series, the bottom end is much stronger to start with. Yes, youd probably make more power easier on a built D series than a built A series, but why not stick with the engine you already have instead of swapping and the associated expenses and conversion headaches... Most of you guys arent really looking to go all out, just have fun with your cars. Thats where boost comes in. For what it would cost you in parts and modifications, you could probably be boosted, instead of having a car that was roughly as fast (or slow) as it was stock.

[Tomisimo]

Im not a d series hater by any means, but how many people have you seen making 250hp NA on a d series, without nitrous? Sure, they might exist, but at what cost? The only real way to make power with either engine is to boost it, and yes, the head does flow better, but stock for stock, your better off boosting a stock A series than a stock D series, the bottom end is much stronger to start with. Yes, youd probably make more power easier on a built D series than a built A series, but why not stick with the engine you already have instead of swapping and the associated expenses and conversion headaches... Most of you guys arent really looking to go all out, just have fun with your cars. Thats where boost comes in. For what it would cost you in parts and modifications, you could probably be boosted, instead of having a car that was roughly as fast (or slow) as it was stock.
__________________
Well stated point right there^^

I sud stick this thread in General Engine swaps, for future references if somebody ask that same Q again.

[lostforawhile]

Im not a d series hater by any means, but how many people have you seen making 250hp NA on a d series, without nitrous? Sure, they might exist, but at what cost? The only real way to make power with either engine is to boost it, and yes, the head does flow better, but stock for stock, your better off boosting a stock A series than a stock D series, the bottom end is much stronger to start with. Yes, youd probably make more power easier on a built D series than a built A series, but why not stick with the engine you already have instead of swapping and the associated expenses and conversion headaches... Most of you guys arent really looking to go all out, just have fun with your cars. Thats where boost comes in. For what it would cost you in parts and modifications, you could probably be boosted, instead of having a car that was roughly as fast (or slow) as it was stock.

remember the D series is an open deck engine vs the closed deck on the A20, I've seen too many blown up D series to want one of them. I have the tiny one in the 98 civic and I can tell the difference ,sounds like a dam lawnmower. not a technical point, but the old A series engines also have soul, I can't find a dam thing interesting on the civics that come with the D series, It really is a soulless car, it feels like something that if it breaks ought to be thrown away. Another point, on the old A series, someone put those engines together by hand, the D series are put together by a robot and a human barely touches them. That means something to me, old cars are built like cars, new cars and parts are built like toasters.

[Civic Accord Honda]

not even going to bother posting.

[lostforawhile]

not even going to bother posting.

you are too young to appreciate the fact that old cars were put together by humans who cared about what they are doing, hand assembly of something adds to a car in a non tangible way, cars lost something when everything started being done by robots. try as i might i can't find anything exiting or interesting about this civic, they are no longer a car but a four wheeled appliance.

[2ndGenGuy]

^^^ um... maybe your Civic needs a tune up. I've heard some nice sounding D-series that don't sound like lawnmowers. I've also heard A-series that sound like poopie. I think that Civics have a lot of well thought out design put into them, they're practical, peppy, economical and fun. I do think that Honda is starting to slip away from that, but I think the 5g and 6g Civics have quite a bit of love from the designers to make them great cars. That's soul.

Somehow I don't think that there is a huge change in the assembly line from 1989 to 1998.

[ShyBoyCA6]

remember the D series is an open deck engine vs the closed deck on the A20, I've seen too many blown up D series to want one of them. I have the tiny one in the 98 civic and I can tell the difference ,sounds like a dam lawnmower. not a technical point, but the old A series engines also have soul, I can't find a dam thing interesting on the civics that come with the D series, It really is a soulless car, it feels like something that if it breaks ought to be thrown away. Another point, on the old A series, someone put those engines together by hand, the D series are put together by a robot and a human barely touches them. That means something to me, old cars are built like cars, new cars and parts are built like toasters.

lost you got a point about them blowing up my friend blew his motor and hes on the second on already bet it wont last with the turbo set up he has.

[stat1K]

i seriously doubt that, parts cost about the same. Plus stock d series rods are weaker than weak, A series rods are much beefier.

i'm not speaking on a turbo build. but again i can get a set of rods for a d at 300 bucks. a set of pistons at near 100 for a good low comp built, arp bolts and simple rebuild shit i'm out the door for near 600 max... i can buy right now a cast log manifold for 80 dollars, a good working t3 for 300 (garret)... couple that with a bit of tuning materials and i'm looking at 1100 for a near 300hp build on a d? my buddy actually just did a similar build to a rex only running 11psi on a small t3, 276whp on a d16z6. all he had was rods and arp bolts with dished pistons... custom built exhaust and turbo mani. then he sold it on ebay :(


i'm not going to argue that the a-motor is a better bet for a turbo application, but the custom built parts for it are what discourages people, if you have 400 just in a manifold that's near half of what i'm talking about for an entire 300hp setup on a d-motor.

i will also agree with you on the fact that people aren't going to go out and swap a d-motor into an accord, whether the op said he wants to or not, it won't happen, i know, we've all been here, i'm gonna do this or that, never happens.

how many people on this site have dyno'd an accord above 130whp vs how many people have done that with a d-motor? that's my one and only point.

[ShyBoyCA6]

you are too young to appreciate the fact that old cars were put together by humans who cared about what they are doing, hand assembly of something adds to a car in a non tangible way, cars lost something when everything started being done by robots. try as i might i can't find anything exiting or interesting about this civic, they are no longer a car but a four wheeled appliance.

well i do miss seeing an engine (metal) not that cheap shit you see now a days with like some weird sheet metal or somthing. it sucks that robots are now making engines now but i bet that the engines made by hand last alot longer then build by robots.;)

[labeledsk8r]

you are too young to appreciate the fact that old cars were put together by humans who cared about what they are doing, hand assembly of something adds to a car in a non tangible way, cars lost something when everything started being done by robots. try as i might i can't find anything exiting or interesting about this civic, they are no longer a car but a four wheeled appliance.

erm.. m gf has practicly the same engine in her car and it sounds fine... yes its nt as loud but its also got a smaller exhaust and a smaller engine then an accord... and sadly id rather a robot makeing my parts as they dont make as many mistakes.

[lostforawhile]

erm.. m gf has practicly the same engine in her car and it sounds fine... yes its nt as loud but its also got a smaller exhaust and a smaller engine then an accord... and sadly id rather a robot makeing my parts as they dont make as many mistakes.

the Japanese were extremely picky when they built engines, it's not just a paycheck to them, but their entire culture, doing a bad job would mean dishonor for the worker, that's a terrible thing in their culture

[2ndGenGuy]

the Japanese were extremely picky when they built engines, it's not just a paycheck to them, but their entire culture, doing a bad job would mean dishonor for the worker, that's a terrible thing in their culture

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the US Accords build in the USA after 1982?

[Civic Accord Honda]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the US Accords build in the USA after 1982?

yep... you do come across a couple that wernt but MOST were and ALL coupes were

[accordion89]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the US Accords build in the USA after 1982?

:bowrofl: lol I was thinking this

[accordion89]

i think when the 3g came out they opened a huge american factory in the south

[cubert]

I <3 this thread... :lol:

[stat1K]

iknorite.

[2ndGenGuy]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/customavatars/avatar12053_2.gif

[ShyBoyCA6]

dude!!!!!!!! you got a facepalm :lol:

[cubert]

I just find it unbelievable that some people are so hard headed...



At the same time its nice to see that some people still have common sense...

[2drSE-i]

Im not a d series hater by any means, but how many people have you seen making 250hp NA on a d series, without nitrous? Sure, they might exist, but at what cost? The only real way to make power with either engine is to boost it, and yes, the head does flow better, but stock for stock, your better off boosting a stock A series than a stock D series, the bottom end is much stronger to start with. Yes, youd probably make more power easier on a built D series than a built A series, but why not stick with the engine you already have instead of swapping and the associated expenses and conversion headaches... Most of you guys arent really looking to go all out, just have fun with your cars. Thats where boost comes in. For what it would cost you in parts and modifications, you could probably be boosted, instead of having a car that was roughly as fast (or slow) as it was stock.
Not many make that much power N/A, I think my point was that its way easier and cheaper to make decent power out of an N/A D. For that matter, with the exception of Rich, there are 0 A guys making decent power N/A. Not arguing with you about the turbo aspect at all though, I think i even said that a mild turbo A-series would be way cheaper than D, and powerful, because our stock internals are WAY better.

Oh and no one is arguing that swapping an A for a D is like swapping an apple for an apple. Unless the other apple is just that much more appealing to you, whats the point?

not even going to bother posting.

You did though...

[Insane43]

ahaha im so glad i posted this thread...
now im strongly conssidering rebuilidng my a20 im almost positive im not gunna swap the D in my car now and im still thinking about the Ls motor i have but with the shape its in it might start getting pretty sppendy but either way now the choice i make is gunna be spendy bcuz rebuilding the a20 couldnt be much cheeper than doing the swap

[2drSE-i]

ahaha im so glad i posted this thread...
now im strongly conssidering rebuilidng my a20 im almost positive im not gunna swap the D in my car now and im still thinking about the Ls motor i have but with the shape its in it might start getting pretty sppendy but either way now the choice i make is gunna be spendy bcuz rebuilding the a20 couldnt be much cheeper than doing the swap

Rebuilding the A will be cheaper no matter what.

D-series. Custom mounts, axles, linkage, wiring, etc etc etc. Very expensive, no gains (to be spoken of)

B-Series. Innovative Mounts (350), New axles, made from existing parts (200), Custom wiring, linkage, etc etc etc. Still expensive, not MUCH gain per dollar.

Rebuilding the A. Spend 600 on headwork, 600 on bottom end parts, If your mechanically inclined enough to rebuild it yourself and you will have a badass A.

[Rendon LX-i]

Im not a d series hater by any means, but how many people have you seen making 250hp NA on a d series, without nitrous? Sure, they might exist, but at what cost? The only real way to make power with either engine is to boost it, and yes, the head does flow better, but stock for stock, your better off boosting a stock A series than a stock D series, the bottom end is much stronger to start with. Yes, youd probably make more power easier on a built D series than a built A series, but why not stick with the engine you already have instead of swapping and the associated expenses and conversion headaches... Most of you guys arent really looking to go all out, just have fun with your cars. Thats where boost comes in. For what it would cost you in parts and modifications, you could probably be boosted, instead of having a car that was roughly as fast (or slow) as it was stock.

THANK YOU.....i couldnt have put it in any better meaning.

[Rendon LX-i]

i'm not speaking on a turbo build. but again i can get a set of rods for a d at 300 bucks. a set of pistons at near 100 for a good low comp built, arp bolts and simple rebuild shit i'm out the door for near 600 max... i can buy right now a cast log manifold for 80 dollars, a good working t3 for 300 (garret)... couple that with a bit of tuning materials and i'm looking at 1100 for a near 300hp build on a d? my buddy actually just did a similar build to a rex only running 11psi on a small t3, 276whp on a d16z6. all he had was rods and arp bolts with dished pistons... custom built exhaust and turbo mani. then he sold it on ebay :(


i'm not going to argue that the a-motor is a better bet for a turbo application, but the custom built parts for it are what discourages people, if you have 400 just in a manifold that's near half of what i'm talking about for an entire 300hp setup on a d-motor.

i will also agree with you on the fact that people aren't going to go out and swap a d-motor into an accord, whether the op said he wants to or not, it won't happen, i know, we've all been here, i'm gonna do this or that, never happens.

how many people on this site have dyno'd an accord above 130whp vs how many people have done that with a d-motor? that's my one and only point.


My buddy just blew his 300hp z6....rod bearing just couldnt hang with 30psi LOL. but it DID last awhile...

It was the vatura Build.....

O i dynod over 130 LOL. boosted. if i had a better flowing exhuast or bigger i would of pushed 200hp easy with that tinny ass T25.



Ill have to agree. IF you have a civic Stick with a D and do a vatura build and make 300 easy but if you have a 3g no use...you wont gain shit. YES you well after you fork out the money for the swap and custom mounts exc.

[2ndGenGuy]

Rendon, you only dyno'd 130hp? Damn dude, even Roach put down that on his N/A build!

Oh yeah while we're on the topic of N/A A-series builds. Remember that Openloops car put down over 160hp on the dyno (roughly 190BHP) with a pretty damn cheap build (what did he do, cam, weld the chambers, and bolt shit on). Roach put down 131hp which is roughly 160BHP, with a stock ECU and some 1mm oversize exhaust valves. I mean you're well over B16 territory with minor work and quality modifications. Far cheaper than any engine swap.

[Rendon LX-i]

NO i said OVER 130...i did 175tq and 167hp...you where there LOL....come on john....WITH BOOST thou...N/a i never dynod so i cant tell you. but i was around the same as roach...i was right there with the b16s....so i know i was close to that range in power......

[stat1K]

Rendon, you only dyno'd 130hp? Damn dude, even Roach put down that on his N/A build!

Oh yeah while we're on the topic of N/A A-series builds. Remember that Openloops car put down over 160hp on the dyno (roughly 190BHP) with a pretty damn cheap build (what did he do, cam, weld the chambers, and bolt shit on). Roach put down 131hp which is roughly 160BHP, with a stock ECU and some 1mm oversize exhaust valves. I mean you're well over B16 territory with minor work and quality modifications. Far cheaper than any engine swap.

right but my point was both of these mods you list here are a bigger deal than camming a motor and installing a different cam gear. i forgot to mention with bone's build over on d-series he made 130hp, ran a 13.98, and got 50mpg with his tune.

not everyone here is going to pay to machine a head for oversized valves, nor is everyone going to weld their combustion chambers... wasn't the openloop car obd1 also? that's another big step i know because i gathered parts with angus to make his first setup with the adapter plate. so you can argue but i'm not going to agree, we should all know that about me right?

as for the vitara build making 300 on 30psi? what was wrong with the motor or his equipment? my buddy dyno'd 276whp in his rex with a really nice curve and he was only on 11psi.

[2ndGenGuy]

13.98 on 130hp? Not that I don't believe you, but what? Was the car super mega gutted and on slicks??

[stat1K]

^ yep. bone is also the transmission guru for all of d-series, he builds them for bisi's car... that should give you an idea...

edit: realized i typed it wrong, 14.98 is what i meant to type... i thought it was weird for you to question me but then i reread what i wrote... 14.98 was his fastest time, he consistantly runs 15 flat with the setup.

[2oodoor]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the US Accords build in the USA after 1982?

i dont think the engines were.


:omg: people are going to search the thread title and still not see how to do the D swap:eek:

[stat1K]

well, that's because it's never gonna happen roodoo, like most of the threads in this section. i'm sure i probably have one somewhere too.

it really wouldn't be that hard to do, nothing more than a b-swap obviously... wiring would be the same for the most part, axles would be close but with no intermediate shaft unless you had a zc motor and trans setup, plus it would be cheap if you could build mounts yourself as a motor and trans can be had most places for around 300-400 in good shape or 100 in blown head gasket or smoking shape.

[lostforawhile]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't most of the US Accords build in the USA after 1982?

I know my hatchback was built in Japan, As far as I know all of the a series were built in japan, talking about the engines.

[2ndGenGuy]

So, a soulful engine in a soulless car...

[lostforawhile]

So, a soulful engine in a soulless car...
what the three g? i would rather own one then this POS civic anyday.

[stat1K]

lol i feel ya on the ek lost, wouldn't really call it a piece but i would definitely say that it's not as nice or as well thought out as the 3g was.

[Tomisimo]

this thread.. I hate and love it at the same time.. lol..

[stat1K]

you too?

if i happen on another 3g i may just do this for spite purposes.

[Civic Accord Honda]

you too?

if i happen on another 3g i may just do this for spite purposes.

if i still had my 3g shell i would send it to you for this reason LOL

and hey stupid question but if the B is a direct swap in to a EJ8 wouldnt the D be able to use the 3g b monts? i sent a email to them about the mounts a while back asking this question and got no response so idk..

[lostforawhile]

lol i feel ya on the ek lost, wouldn't really call it a piece but i would definitely say that it's not as nice or as well thought out as the 3g was.

you don't own this one lol, everything is breaking on it, who ever heard of a honda with 163000 miles where all the window motors were failing, electrical system is failing, random check engine lights for no reason, gauges are getting screwy, blower motor is going out, gauge lights failing, headlights fogged up, suspension wearing out, struts failing, ignition switch randomly cuts out (ok there's a recall on that) etc etc , it needs a ford emblem

[Civic Accord Honda]

you don't own this one lol, everything is breaking on it, who ever heard of a honda with 163000 miles where all the window motors were failing, electrical system is failing, random check engine lights for no reason, gauges are getting screwy, blower motor is going out, gauge lights failing, headlights fogged up, suspension wearing out, struts failing, ignition switch randomly cuts out (ok there's a recall on that) etc etc , it needs a ford emblem

my 3g? it had 151 when i got it had failed window motors , screwy electrical , completely fucked suspension gauges that acted weird etc

[lostforawhile]

my 3g? it had 151 when i got it had failed window motors , screwy electrical , completely fucked suspension gauges that acted weird etc
DAMMIT!! tell your car to stop possessing my car!!

[stat1K]

yeah that sounds uncharactersitically common for all honda's? blower motor problems are horribly common, ignition switch's have always been bad, the "random" CEL is probably some stupid obd2 code that pops up on occasion then clears itself, or is a consequence of the "failing electrical system."

now the headlight thing really cheeses me off because they used fucking plastic. at least your motor will only spin the #1 bearing in another 20k or so... hahahahahhaha i crack me up.

[JordanQ]

so enough of this jibber jabber.. how about for us small town girls that can find d-series on every corner? would it be worth it?

i'm having a hard enough time finding a damned a-series..

[stat1K]

it would be worth it in my opinion but to each their own, for me it seems like most feasible swap for anything, like you said, they're on every god damn corner.

[MessyHonda]

so enough of this jibber jabber.. how about for us small town girls that can find d-series on every corner? would it be worth it?

i'm having a hard enough time finding a damned a-series..

you guys dont have junkyards?

[stat1K]

yeah junkyard motor for the win, every 3g i've ever seen in a yard has had no body damage, meaning something happened with the motor, also most of them have 200+ on the odo and look to have been brutally fucked... he of course could rebuild it which isn't difficult just more time and money.

[stat1K]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/86-89-honda-accord-OEM-engine-motor-A20A3-LXi-MPFI-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem1c0ba2bcccQQitemZ12045 4298828QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

[accordion89]

I love the new facepalm

[accordion89]

:facepalm:

[ShyBoyCA6]

I love the new facepalm

:thumbup: same here:facepalm:

[JordanQ]

yeah junkyard motor for the win, every 3g i've ever seen in a yard has had no body damage, meaning something happened with the motor, also most of them have 200+ on the odo and look to have been brutally fucked... he of course could rebuild it which isn't difficult just more time and money.

you and me are cut from the same cloth my friend.

[MessyHonda]

so the engine is shot? what makes you think the d serries is not a bad running engine.

[ShyBoyCA6]

how did this thread get back up again?? :deadhorse:

[JordanQ]

just saying that i know of two people that have d-series for sale each within 30 minutes of my house.

not kidding.

and as stat1k said, each fucking 3gee in my local yard has almost no body damage.

which leads me to believe the a-series are toast.

[MessyHonda]

only a compression test and visual inspection can tell you if the engine is bad or not...i dont think the d-swap would not be a bad idea for a daily driver...but when you are going to spend time and money why not go for an engine that has more power...for 350 you can get b serries mounts and just drop in a engine

[ShyBoyCA6]

well they are cheap on ebay you can get the whole thing for 500 for a engine swap or less.

but hey i wouldnt mind seeing a 3g with a d series if its possible which i doubt but will give the dude props to pull it off

[ShyBoyCA6]

only a compression test and visual inspection can tell you if the engine is bad or not...i dont think the d-swap would not be a bad idea for a daily driver...but when you are going to spend time and money why not go for an engine that has more power...for 350 you can get b serries mounts and just drop in a engine

B16 Power whooo!!! man i wish i had one of those right now in Jeny

[MessyHonda]

B16 Power whooo!!! man i wish i had one of those right now in Jeny

when i was in school there was a guy here that had a b16 in his hatch...i got to see it and hear it....it was a sweet swap but low end the a20 had toque advantage

[ShyBoyCA6]

when i was in school there was a guy here that had a b16 in his hatch...i got to see it and hear it....it was a sweet swap but low end the a20 had toque advantage

oh man why is it that hactys get all the good swaps haha

and were still waiting on a k20 hatch

[cubert]

when i was in school there was a guy here that had a b16 in his hatch...i got to see it and hear it....it was a sweet swap but low end the a20 had toque advantage


Yea, because the A is an absolute torque monster compared to a b16...







:rolleyes:

[MessyHonda]

Yea, because the A is an absolute torque monster compared to a b16...







:rolleyes:

i was doing 115 to the wheels on a stock(low compression on cly 2) motor and just bolt ons...i want to see a stock b16 dyno that

[LX-incredible]

Only if you mount a matching D motor and trans in the rear. Now that would be some cool shit.

[stat1K]

d-series FFMR monster!

while we're at it, lets throw the dual steering wheels in it only one facing the other way in the back so it can drive in all directions!!!

and cubert, i lol'd.

[Edison Carasio]

I'm not sure why one would bother with this?

[stat1K]

with the swap? if you read the thread we've touched on it a few times:

aftermarket support
cheapness
availability (these motors were made the same from 88-2000 with slight differences only in mounting and intake manifold designs)
reliability 88-95 anyway, 96-00 and their spun #1 bearings can eff off.

need some more reasons?

[stat1K]

oh and look what a little work can do...

http://www.d-series.org/forums/naturally-aspirated/91969-d16y8-z6-a6-hybrid-dyno-results.html

[Edison Carasio]

oh and look what a little work can do...

http://www.d-series.org/forums/naturally-aspirated/91969-d16y8-z6-a6-hybrid-dyno-results.html


Not all of those D-series are worth it. Only one I would even consider is the D16Y8 or D16Z6.

Naturally aspirated at best they are 125 HP, not much more than a A20A3. And I know they have a high after market support, but FULLY built naturally aspirated you are maybe lucky to reach the 140 hp range and no more tq than the A20A3. If you're talking turbo, it's not going to be any more or less than the A20. I just see it as a waste of time and effort personally.

[stat1K]

that link i just sent you is higher than that, did you even click on it? 154 to the wheels with a mild build, no where near "fully built." It has a stock z6 block, a6 pistons, y8 head slightly milled, running a crower 2 cam... that's IT! the rest is bolt ons. that whole cost right there would run you in the 600 dollar range including parts, maybe less considering the cheapness of d-series parts... i know i got a z6 block with bad rings for FREE.

to top it off that's not even a true high comp build only running 10.75, i've seen way higher numbers when you get into the 11:1 compression ratios.

please if you don't know what you're talking about don't post. saying you would go with a y8 is proof enough of that point (mmmmmmmmm spun rod bearings).

oh and on a side note, honda measures stock numbers from the crank, so think about how much power the a20 really has when factoring in a 20% drive train loss. these numbers posted in the thread i linked are AT THE WHEELS!

[ShyBoyCA6]

that link i just sent you is higher than that, did you even click on it? 154 to the wheels with a mild build, no where near "fully built." It has a stock z6 block, a6 pistons, y8 head slightly milled, running a crower 2 cam... that's IT! the rest is bolt ons. that whole cost right there would run you in the 600 dollar range including parts, maybe less considering the cheapness of d-series parts... i know i got a z6 block with bad rings for FREE.

to top it off that's not even a true high comp build only running 10.75, i've seen way higher numbers when you get into the 11:1 compression ratios.

please if you don't know what you're talking about don't post. saying you would go with a y8 is proof enough of that point (mmmmmmmmm spun rod bearings).

oh and on a side note, honda measures stock numbers from the crank, so think about how much power the a20 really has when factoring in a 20% drive train loss. these numbers posted in the thread i linked are AT THE WHEELS!

Don't worry about it man let them figure it out the hard way don't watse your time posting if no one knows was up.

And maybe a vid would clear things up to edison

[stat1K]

i don't pander to those who can't read and absorb information, it's not that he is incapable of understanding he's not even trying and he's just regurgitating the same shit that everyone does when they don't actually know what they're talking about.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Ok um why do consider the d16y8? The engine you want is the Z6 which is better than the y8. Edison you gotta read the info in the thread man I even posted all d series motors specs on a link I found and don't get me wrong stat1k but d series suck period. D series can't hang with high horse power unless built properly and the money for the parts.

[2oodoor]

something fishy going on here...Edison how is it all of the sudden ...never mind
oh and stat1k why why why lol

[stephensimmons]

something fishy going on here...Edison how is it all of the sudden ...never mind
oh and stat1k why why why lol

:confused:

[stat1K]

something fishy going on here...Edison how is it all of the sudden ...never mind
oh and stat1k why why why lol

my d-series has more power than 90% of this site and i'm not even high comp anymore.

[MessyHonda]

my d-series has more power than 90% of this site and i'm not even high comp anymore.

you got dyno sheets?

[ShyBoyCA6]

Lol damn straight calling you out haha

[stat1K]

you got dyno sheets?

lolumad?

how many cars on here are actually fast? a whole 5-6? how many people are on this board? i could have gone as far to say mine is faster than 99% but i left it at a modest 90 for those of you that think your cars are faster.

what's your quarter mile time messy? i guess i should have said my d-series has run faster times than 90% of 3geez.com?

[stephensimmons]

Lol damn straight calling you out haha

LOL! Dammet Now! :stick: Thats what it sounds like to me! :rice:

[2oodoor]

lolumad?

how many cars on here are actually fast? a whole 5-6? how many people are on this board? i could have gone as far to say mine is faster than 99% but i left it at a modest 90 for those of you that think your cars are faster.

what's your quarter mile time messy? i guess i should have said my d-series has run faster times than 90% of 3geez.com?

Maff (math) it isnt just for first graders... :thumbup:
Im not fast but will run ya! Im not sure if I would be in that 5-6 but ive encounturd D series civics that were slightly not stock they got real little in my rearview. Just playing around though not straight up racing. Those were mostly all blue ones and red ones though, never a white one I heard those are way faster.

[stat1K]

no way bro, never seen a white honda.

lx-incredible has told me before that he thought my civic was slightly faster than his coupe. i ran 15.56 last time i went to the quarter mile and that was after i converted back to non-vtec. also don't have an Si transmission anymore.

and maf is for nissans :)

[Rendon LX-i]

.....Ill love to race you bro. if your not n/a then what are you doing then. vitara build, Fj rod setup? YES a good setup? i wont win with my stock block on boost. but on a stock boosted d ummm idk. i couldnt say i beat a boosted B and a boosted D. And a boosted D with eagle rods.......

Sad to say i put a K20a3 to shame with a tiny T25 and choking exhuast (chough 2inch w/cat) .....With the ching chong i ate half of the H22s around here which i dont have proof of all this....AND I know you to damn well that youll start asking 21 questions on proof.

Why a y8 head on a z6. GARBAGE to time. not even worth it. My tuner tuned a D with a z6 bottom and y8 head worst combo ever. Couldnt even get it close to time.

ANYWHO.......BUST out with time slips. And dyno shits. if you got more then 180whp at the wheels on your little D then i would of kept up with you with my Tinny ass T25 CHOKING asking for help. LOL. i know im pushing more then 210 easy and untune. AND STOCK LOL

[Rendon LX-i]

O btw i ran 15.7 N/a before i boosted.........

Now i never seen you post vids of your car or nothing. Just to SEE what YOU can do. NOW i know a D is dirty. alot around here over 500hp. Speed factory setups. BUT i cant wait to build mine to see what i can do against them.

Nothing againt you Patt.........JUST SAYING bust out with time dyno sheet. That would give me a idea of your 1/4 time.
AN agian A d is not worth swapping to a 3geez. if your gonna swap something nice GO big like a H22 with a F22 rods and crank and type s pistons....JUST that alone is 210hp out of the box on STOCK PARTS total build 400 LMFAO. my tuner buildt my buddys h to what i explained and WOW. none stop power. no traction on 1,2,3 N/A.....NOW i know a D cant do that. CANNNN IF you spend alot of fucking money CORRECT? A D swap for for a civic period. Accord is ment for a B,h, and thats it. Dont down grade UPGRADE FELLa....lol.

Now dont get heated pat. You know damn well a D aint shit without boost......NOW the question is PAT ARE YOU MAD? huh huh

[cubert]

Now dont get heated pat. You know damn well a D aint shit without boost......NOW the question is PAT ARE YOU MAD? huh huh




Yea...youre right...low 13's, or even low to mid 14's out of a small displacement SOHC car "aint shit".


But hey, whatever makes you feel better.

[Edison Carasio]

that link i just sent you is higher than that, did you even click on it? 154 to the wheels with a mild build, no where near "fully built." It has a stock z6 block, a6 pistons, y8 head slightly milled, running a crower 2 cam... that's IT! the rest is bolt ons. that whole cost right there would run you in the 600 dollar range including parts, maybe less considering the cheapness of d-series parts... i know i got a z6 block with bad rings for FREE.

to top it off that's not even a true high comp build only running 10.75, i've seen way higher numbers when you get into the 11:1 compression ratios.

please if you don't know what you're talking about don't post. saying you would go with a y8 is proof enough of that point (mmmmmmmmm spun rod bearings).

oh and on a side note, honda measures stock numbers from the crank, so think about how much power the a20 really has when factoring in a 20% drive train loss. these numbers posted in the thread i linked are AT THE WHEELS!

That might be what it runs in a CIVIC but what about the Accord, a car that is heavier? And you say 600 for parts but how about the custom mounts that are needed for a 3G Accord? and the customer axles? and so on and so on. If you want to swap a D series into an Accord, be my guest. I don't care. :dunno:

[JordanQ]

we're really gunna get into all this? wow.

[Edison Carasio]

we're really gunna get into all this? wow.

:dunno: Gotta talk about something! :) :)

[Rendon LX-i]

Yea...youre right...low 13's, or even low to mid 14's out of a small displacement SOHC car "aint shit".


But hey, whatever makes you feel better.

Did it make you feel better telling me that. :omg:

[Rendon LX-i]

:dunno: Gotta talk about something! :) :)

Haha true. I would only build a d if I had a civic. My brother an I currently building a fj rod/vitara build on Honda oem bearings . Should lay 400whp after tune. Total kit cost 600 cheap. Now that's a whole different ball game. Cheap build. D's are good don't get me wrong but not worth it. It's Like me putting a f22 into a 3/4 ton lol I mean.

[stat1K]

i run consistant 15.5's with a dx trans, a 1.5 block w/ sohc zc head, an ebay header and intake with 2" exhaust.

when i was vtec with the si trans i ran slightly better but had a valve problem in the head.

what i said is still true, my car and my motor out perform 90% of this site, your car rendon would be one of the cars that i called "fast." comparing my car to yours is just stupid as i have NO BOOST and no real power adders. car is stock with I/H/E. And i'm not arguing that an F-motor, an H-motor, a B-motor, or a J-motor isn't going to be a BETTER swap, this thread was made for one reason, to ask about the potential of a d-swap. that's what i'm answering and that's what i'm talking about.

of course motors with higher displacement, better flow, and higher output to begin with are going to be better, but that's not what was asked was it?

for the record, several people in here have dogged the f-motors and the d-motors both, but for some reason bisi, who is probably the BEST honda tuner/manufacture in the game, seems to love both? cheap, reliable, easy to build, easy to create power. simple facts... for some reason b-series motors are still overpriced even with the introduction into of the newer motors on the market. go figure why people still build d-motors.

also, someone said earlier that they wouldn't consider all the motors from 88-2000 for a build, i would use most of them for sure, the d15bX (exceptions are the b8 and b6 heads, but you can still utilize the blocks as they are the same as the other d15bX blocks) i would use, the d15b jdm i would definitely use, any d16 i would use, the y5/6/7/8's do have a propensity to spin the number 1 but that can be cured with an upgraded oil pump, a baffle, and better oils, the zc's are nice in dual and sohc, the d17's are capable of super high numbers as well and they already run on distributorless ignition which is a pluss. hard to find anything wrong with the motors, but remember a lot of these cars were rated at the power with HUGE restrictions. the d15b2 i had in my crx was rated at 92hp WITH DPFI a restrictive intake manifold with only 2 injectors, basically an electronic carb.

i know a lot of you have these things stuck in your head and that's fine, but thinking your a-motor is a better alternative is limited thinking as well. the A can and does make power given the proper circumstance, but many of us, myself included, aren't going to put the money into one to get it where it can be.

if i had another 3g i WOULD b-swap it, however, if i had a welder, some free time, a d16 and a non running accord, i would consider the title of this thread and the information given here. so keep being "3g" purists but i'm going to continue to be a honda fan of all of the motors they've produced including the d-motor.

[Edison Carasio]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging the D-series. Infact I want a CRX to build a D, BUT in this particular application I wouldn't do it. That's all.

[2drSE-i]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging the D-series. Infact I want a CRX to build a D, BUT in this particular application I wouldn't do it. That's all.

For my current car, I will be sticking with the A. If i ever come up with another 3g though, it will be a SOHC F.

[Harrison_Bergeron]

For all the effort involved with either swap I would go with the F over the D as well.

The F is just as easy to find and cheap as the D, with higher displacement.

[Edison Carasio]

For all the effort involved with either swap I would go with the F over the D as well.

The F is just as easy to find and cheap as the D, with higher displacement.


I agree with this.

[2ndGenGuy]

Who cares, they're all slow.

Build what you like. They can all be built differently and will have their own characteristics. Take advantage of what your favorite engine has to offer and enjoy it. :thumbup:

[Edison Carasio]

Who cares, they're all slow.

Build what you like. They can all be built differently and will have their own characteristics. Take advantage of what your favorite engine has to offer and enjoy it. :thumbup:

now this I REALLY like. :) Can't we all just get along?

Makes me remember when I was on the Mustang forums here locally. There, an "average" car was putting down 500+ hp and tq but on the Honda forums I'm part of (STL Hondas, 3geez, Fitfreak), a car with 200 HP is fast. lol

[Rendon LX-i]

All hondas are slow lol. I'm not dogging d's either my bro has one but at the moment it's getting fj rods an vitaras. Getting bisi valve train

[2oodoor]

VERY good response stat1k...
I agree, If I was scrounging up for a car and had a 3rd gen body and somebody gave me a D15 or what have you.. of course I would make it work and have a pretty cool car, quick car as well.
Of course there are plenty of choices, probably better maybe not, depends on one's resources and skill level.
Getting the weight out of the car makes a world of difference. Food for thought, mmm speaking of I think I want some fried rice:eatarrow:

[Civic Accord Honda]

why d-series is win
easy 400hp with a ebay turbo and vitara build probably pay less then a grand for whole setup and tune too.

why i love f-series


On 9 psi (all the stock exhaust could flow) the accord put down 180whp and 220wtq on a mustang dyno. On open downpipe at 15psi, (at the time it was before the side exit, the 2.5" downpipe cut right after the o2 bung, witch was right after a 2" flex section) the accord put down 240whp and 270 wtq

On 9 psi (all the stock exhaust could flow) the accord put down 180whp and 220wtq on a mustang dyno. On open downpipe at 15psi, (at the time it was before the side exit, the 2.5" downpipe cut right after the o2 bung, witch was right after a 2" flex section) the accord put down 240whp and 270 wtq
on stock internals with 230k miles just a dsm turbo and manifold with a tune and aftermarket injectors...
link with dynos here
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=144116

and why i love the A-series
reliblity , strong engines, good power band with a intake headers and exhuast they can be pretty fun cars,

but honestly if i had a 3g with a bad A20 i would really try to get a D in there and boost the hell out of it

[ShyBoyCA6]

why d-series is win

but honestly if i had a 3g with a bad A20 i would really try to get a D in there and boost the hell out of it

i heard d series cant handle the power i know a guy that bought 2 engines and blew them both lol and with boost. buts thats on you CAH

[cubert]

:facepalm:

[ShyBoyCA6]

let me guess cubert is that facepalm for me??

[Civic Accord Honda]

:facepalm:

+1 :lol:

d-series are known to handle boost very well shyboy.... go to d-series.org and study up

[ShyBoyCA6]

+1 :lol:

d-series are known to handle boost very well shyboy.... go to d-series.org and study up

lol my bad guess that guy can drive for shit lol fuck it im just saying what i heard haha

and nah im good on the study for d series dont intend to make a build of a d series but im not hating on it

[Tomisimo]

I had one guy at school, with D16 in a civic, he stated he will be faster, and he was, untill I got in to 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd in our gear boxes are bust. the A20 is torq engine, and will pull off IRL conditions. on mountain roads for example.

It sounds a bit not fair but lets face it, I drive looong distances in my car, 600-700mil at the time and you know what? even all those modern cars gets lost in the corners, they cant maintain constant speed like light Accord dos.
try your civic here
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/Tomisimo/3Geez/Fotka009-1.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/Tomisimo/3Geez/Fotka008-1.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/Tomisimo/3Geez/Fotka011-1.jpg
see that truck? I was able to play with hm, drive 4-5min ahead, stop, take pics untill he shows up, and drive some more, stop and do that all day long on 11% clime. even got past 2 cars on the way up, with 4 winter tires in the trunk and car full of things. and it pulls just nice.

[2ndGenGuy]

^ Oh man, I can drive on that road nao? Kthx!

[ShyBoyCA6]

ditto looks like a killer road but i wish my a20 wouldnt lose power up hill:bs:

[MessyHonda]

i dont have any stock a20s now... i like how much lighter the car feels with a beefed up engine...i need to tune my a20 for you guys to see how much power i can make.

[Tomisimo]

Well, come over here and I will show you places where the drivers roads are ;)
I made a video on the way, where I drive 60-70mph on those roads downhill, but my resolution was on default settings so its not good, no sound. but but. next time.


ditto looks like a killer road but i wish my a20 wouldnt lose power up hill

Change your oil, filter, spark plugs, wires, air filter, and wash on the inside, so the car feel happy. Jk. and take it out for a long drive, stay in high gear 3rd and 4th most of the time. keep it at constant speed 50-60mph in those gears. dont push your clutch in, just coast on dry downhill, using engine as a brake, let it breath. You'll get rid of all carbon your engine neglected in city driving, its suffocating I bet. you'll feel the difference, trust me.

[Vector]

i'm contemplating a D - AUTO in the SE-i when the A dies.. why?, better fuel mileage, that is all.. i have 2 other cars that are for fast fun..

i've pretty much given up on that motor.. i've replaced so much stuff on it already and i still cant get it to run properly..

[Vector]

..... dbl post

[stat1K]

I had one guy at school, with D16 in a civic, he stated he will be faster, and he was, untill I got in to 3rd gear. 1st and 2nd in our gear boxes are bust. the A20 is torq engine, and will pull off IRL conditions. on mountain roads for example.


kid was either in a messed up d16 or didn't know how to drive, you also don't state what civic it was in? if it was an ek/ej they are heavier and weight about as much as the 3g, in which case i would believe an underpowered engine with no breathing would die in third gear, my guess is he had a dx or an lx with that d16 and no vtec, couple that with inexperience with hondas and yes third gear would kill him, third gear in most long geared cars is going to be your death.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Change your oil, filter, spark plugs, wires, air filter, and wash on the inside, so the car feel happy. Jk. and take it out for a long drive, stay in high gear 3rd and 4th most of the time. keep it at constant speed 50-60mph in those gears. dont push your clutch in, just coast on dry downhill, using engine as a brake, let it breath. You'll get rid of all carbon your engine neglected in city driving, its suffocating I bet. you'll feel the difference, trust me.


oh ok cause i was gonna do a rebuild on it to see if it had any wore out parts and ill give that a try thanks tomisomo.

[Tomisimo]

kid was either in a messed up d16 or didn't know how to drive, you also don't state what civic it was in? if it was an ek/ej they are heavier and weight about as much as the 3g, in which case i would believe an underpowered engine with no breathing would die in third gear, my guess is he had a dx or an lx with that d16 and no vtec, couple that with inexperience with hondas and yes third gear would kill him, third gear in most long geared cars is going to be your death.

yes, it was EJ Vtec engine in it. he has another cars with good power, this was hes DD on Bags tho, so maybe it was heavy because of that idk, but anyhow, we were neck and neck. 3G looses at 1st and 2nd gear pulls, where you loose your time.

[CB Coupe SEi]

Hey,
I'm a older member, now 59. My son has a 1994 Civic ex coupe with the D16Z6 engine in it. We had to replace the original headers because they were cracked, with aftermarket ones. My son always felt it had very good performance and mileage. I bought it from him when he moved on to a different car. I found a factory dual exhaust replacement from Honda for my accord sei and put the aftermarket dual tip muffler on the civic. Which I'm thinking gives it lower back pressure better flow. After that I took 4 hour trip with it and got 49miles to the gallon of gas. A few more tanks to confirm it's amazing hybrid type mileage. It's a much lower idling engine and a much higher reving engine than the A20A3 currently in my 1989 Accord SEi. I also would like to do this swap because the civic body is deteriorating and my 1989 is like brand new. They seem like they would be a great fit for a guy who wants economy and reliability. That engine compartment doesn't hardly have a vacuum line in it. So much cleaner and easier to work on. I sure would have it rebuilt before installing it as it has about 260K miles on it.
If anyone has attempted it please make a comment. Thanks

[Dr_Snooz]

Good luck with the swap. It seems like if you really want to keep the classic cars rolling, you have to upgrade the engine to a more modern version at some point. Keep us posted with details because that mileage is amazing. How does the power compare to the A20?

[2oodoor]

So you have a cherry SEI Accord and you want to put a D series engine in it because it gets better mileage and driveability? That is a lot of work doing that swap and Im afraid you will not be as impressed with the performance afterward. Just my conception from an engineering standpoint. You would be served much better by modifiying your SEI current engine by converting it to obd1 so that engine management parameters can be adjusted "tuned" if you will, by using one of the many tuning software options available. I can guaruntee you will pick up mpg and have a much more interesting car. Exhaust headers will help but mainly because they are lighter in weight, the 89 already has a good flowing exhaust manifold but its cast iron & heavy.
2.0 liter vs 1.6 , you may wind up with around 30-40 mpg with the 2.0 once the ign timing curve and fuel trims are modified to better suit the engine. In oem form the car has a one size fits all tune on it from the 80's, that never really let the car perform at its best but only met current emmissions standards with the available fuel at the time and retained a quite passive tune to keep a reasonably smooth idle and off idle...which quickly expired after about 5 yrs when problems started showing up because fuel changed.

[bayys_edits]

I have a crippled Civic (d16y8) and an 3Gee. My only question is, is there enough space and how many changes down the road would be expected