Torque strut???

[Nio]

Okay when I was under my car a few days ago I saw a bar that confused the hell out of me. well I stubled onto what it was.

It's the torque strut. Mine is loose and jiggaly, and when I turn in either direction sometimes I can hear it bouncing around under the car.

would it be time to replace this? If so what would be the best way of going about doing so.

[Civic Accord Honda]

the hell is a torque sturt? , do you mean the radius rod? ( bar front front xmember to LCA)

[w261w261]

I assume you mean the radius rods, and not the front sway bar. The sway bar lays horizontally across the car, and there's only 1. The radius rods point towards the front of the car, one on each side, and constrain the movement of the drivetrain back and forth. It's the bushings that are typically gone, and need to be replaced. It will stop the banging and make a big difference in how the car drives. If you have torque steer now (pulls one way on acceleration, another on deceleration) it will stop that.

I'd get two each of #7, #8, #10 and #22 from Majestic Honda, or go order them from your dealer. Majestic has a big mail order business, and prices parts at 75% of Honda list, but they do have a $5 per order fee, plus shipping.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+SEI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FRONT+LOWER+ARM

While we're on the subject of bushings, before you go ahead with this order, look at the front sway bar bushings too. Anything you can do to tighten up the front end usually starts with new bushings. For the sway bar, you need 4 ea of #16 and 2ea of #24.

[Nio]

well it looks like this.


http://www.autozone.com/autozone/catalog/parts/partsShelf.jsp?displayName=Torque+Strut+Mount-Engine&currentPage=1&categoryDisplayName=Drivetrain&navValue=11200438&itemId=438-0&parentId=12-0

so now I'm confused.

according to what I read, it connects to the engine/transmission to the body and lowers the amount of vibration.


*not from our car, but it looks like this.*
http://www.mydatsunroadster.com/images/large/torque_strut_clean.jpg

and it sits under the engine connecting it or transmission to the body.

[A18A]

sounds like your talking about the shift linkage stabilizer? is there another funny looking rod thingy running alongside it?

[Nio]

sounds like your talking about the shift linkage stabilizer? is there another funny looking rod thingy running alongside it?

Yea, the other rod moves in and out *very easily I might add*...

I kinda figured that would be to my shift linkage. *but still new to all of this. :D this is actually the farthest I've gotten to work on any car.*

[cygnus x-1]

Here is a diagram of the shifter and linkages.


http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa/images/illustration/31/673847.png



C|

[Nio]

Its like 18, but it doesn't have 19, 20, 21, or 32.. its just empty and bouncing around. *at least none of that I can remember, it just bounces around, about 1-2 inch's in all directions*

[Tomisimo]

I think you have to fix that ASAP, because if its drops down, you can bend it and then it might pop up #1 and everything attached to it. its gear shift link. :kekeke:

[Nio]

Could that be why I can only use first gear when it gets below 10MPH. *cause my civic I was able to downshift into first rather easy....or is that how its built?

same with second. sometimes its hard to get it in.

[Tomisimo]

the first gear want engage before certain speed, its made so you dont f*up your gearbox and dont crash. but yes, this rod slides a pin sideways, if you have problems with second gear I bet it dont release as it sud.

[nfs480]

The torque strut your talking about is behind the engine but up near the top, it's #8 in this diagram:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+SEI&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=TORQUE+ROD+-+FRONT+BEAM

However, if what your really looking at is beneath the car, I doubt it's the torque rod. Probably the shift linkage as others have said.

[Nio]

The torque strut your talking about is behind the engine but up near the top, it's #8 in this diagram:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+SEI&catcgry4=KA4AT&catcgry5=TORQUE+ROD+-+FRONT+BEAM

However, if what your really looking at is beneath the car, I doubt it's the torque rod. Probably the shift linkage as others have said.

Yea number 8 is the torque.

okay. so I guess I was looking at the linkage.

Is it supposed to bounce around like it does?

[Tomisimo]

no!!
it sud sit firm on that pin. and it sud slide smoothly inside and out with 3 or 4 stages, if I'm remembering correctly. You need to secure it! or risk of getting your gear leaver pop up in side of your car if its fals off and hit pot hole or something..

[lostforawhile]

you can get a kit to replace 19 and 22 from energy suspension, it's for an 84 civic i believe, but it fits the accord, part number 16.1101R , they are on ebay all the time. see if you can get all the other parts from someone on here with a parts car. it's just the special flat and dished washer and the bolt. it sounds like someone slapped it on there with no bolt or anything just crappy work. I don't know how you can shift gears at all, that rod holds the entire shift assembly in place, the shift assembly actually slides back and forth on the rear pin behind the shifter as the transmission moves from torque, that rod holds it steady in place and also moves with the transmission, yet holds it solid so you can shift gears. great engineering from Honda, allows a solid shift with a solid shift rod, and no binding of the linkage.

[Bluntman]

If you are talking about the torque strut ( Dogbone ) I got the two bushings at Pep Boys in stock a couple weeks ago. Those are okay to get at Pep Boys.

[lostforawhile]

If you are talking about the torque strut ( Dogbone ) I got the two bushings at Pep Boys in stock a couple weeks ago. Those are okay to get at Pep Boys.I think he means the torque rod for the transmission shift rod

[Bluntman]

I think he means the torque rod for the transmission shift rod

Oh I was all confused.

[labeledsk8r]

i well second getting the energy suspention bushings for the 84 civic/crx, thin there under 35 shiped and there polly so there gonna last a long time

[lostforawhile]

i well second getting the energy suspention bushings for the 84 civic/crx, thin there under 35 shiped and there polly so there gonna last a long time

i've seen them sell for five bucks or less from time to time on egay just have to watch

[Bluntman]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ENERGY-SUSPENSION-SHIFTER-BUSHING-CIVIC-DEL-SOL-B16_W0QQitemZ280452983122QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ2010 0118?IMSfp=TL100118236003r1793

[ecogabriel]

May I see that torque rod from a different angle?
Because from the picture you posted it looks like the torque rod that goes from the firewall to the engine (top). Only the bushings on each end look different.

[Nio]

I'll take a picture tonight...I'm tired of my car shacking all the time, I liked it better when it only shacked a little when I let off the gas. so I'm going to be rotating my tires back...

when I do this, I'll take a picture for you guys and show you what I see. this way you all can get a better idea.

[Nio]

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/th_January23rd2010ShiftLink.jpg (http://s776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/?action=view&current=January23rd2010ShiftLink.flv)

I have a video up of what I'm looking at.

Let me know guys..*BTW with what its like in the video, what all can this cause on the car?*

[lostforawhile]

holy shit!! you need a need a new torque rod too, what happened to it? the entire end is all bent up!!

[Nio]

holy shit!! you need a need a new torque rod too, what happened to it? the entire end is all bent up!!

Where you see the torque rod?

cause only thing I see every time I watch the video is the shift linkage.

*confused*


BTW what ever is wrong with this, happened before I got the car...that's why I'm trying to fix it.

[kentwat]

That would cause all kinds of motor and tranny movement. I'd inspect your upper mount also from the previous reply. #8 mine was all flopping up on top and it was giving plenty of clunking noises. I noticed it while swapping to a new 5sp and just wrapped the bushing temporary with old faithful duct tape and crammed it back together. I haven't been able to find a decent one at pullapart, but it still is very tight.

btw I should check my lower bar like yours and check for wear also.

[Nio]

http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa/images/illustration/31/673847.png

BTW that video I posted is of number 18 here.

That's why I'm confused at how you guys are going back to the torque strut...

and I searched up the torque rod and it looks nothing like 18.

*confused even more*

[lostforawhile]

Where you see the torque rod?

cause only thing I see every time I watch the video is the shift linkage.

*confused*


BTW what ever is wrong with this, happened before I got the car...that's why I'm trying to fix it.

next to it, let me go take a picture of whats thats supposed to look like, for everyone else he's talking about the torque rod that runs alongside the shift rod. the one that lets you shift gears without the shifter being all over the place.

[Nio]

next to it, let me go take a picture of whats thats supposed to look like, for everyone else he's talking about the torque rod that runs alongside the shift rod. the one that lets you shift gears without the shifter being all over the place.

Reason I'm confused is when I search for a Torque rod, I find this.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21X-tTkYCaL._SL500_AA252_.jpg

and I don't see that anywhere in that diagram

[lostforawhile]

Reason I'm confused is when I search for a Torque rod, I find this.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21X-tTkYCaL._SL500_AA252_.jpg

and I don't see that anywhere in that diagram

you are missing 32 19 20 21 uploading pictures

[lostforawhile]

this is what the end of it should look like, the bushing goes in the end of the round piece which is smashed flat, then the end goes over the big aluminum pin on the transmission, one side gets a big flat washer, other gets the special dished washer, the bolt goes through the center of the dished washer and threads into the aluminum pin on the transmission, what you have is a screwed mess.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020935.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020936.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020934.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4020933.jpg

[Nio]

this is what the end of it should look like, the bushing goes in the end of the round piece which is smashed flat, then the end goes over the big aluminum pin on the transmission, one side gets a big flat washer, other gets the special dished washer, the bolt goes through the center of the dished washer and threads into the aluminum pin on the transmission, what you have is a screwed mess.


Thanks. I see how its supposed to go.

I take it I'm going to have to replace the whole thing.

What all can mine do right now, would it mess with speed, handeling, engine life. ect? *probably part of the reason my stick vibrates so damn much all the time.*

[lostforawhile]

Thanks. I see how its supposed to go.

I take it I'm going to have to replace the whole thing.

What all can mine do right now, would it mess with speed, handeling, engine life. ect? *probably part of the reason my stick vibrates so damn much all the time.*

yea there's nothing really holding the shifter in properly, if that rod falls off going down the road, and digs into the ground, it could rip your entire shifter right out of the car. or shoot it straight up into the car and possibly you, like a javelin

[Nio]

yea there's nothing really holding the shifter in properly, if that rod falls off going down the road, and digs into the ground, it could rip your entire shifter right out of the car. or shoot it straight up into the car and possibly you, like a javelin

I can't pop it off myself. there is another bolt on the left side holding it in *but kinda barely.* it won't slide over it, it just jiggles around like crazy.

[lostforawhile]

I can't pop it off myself. there is another bolt on the left side holding it in *but kinda barely.* it won't slide over it, it just jiggles around like crazy.
so one of the washers is still there?

[Nio]

so one of the washers is still there?

it might be....hold on I'll go take a picture kk.

[lostforawhile]

can someone post a picture of the entire shift linkage assembled with both parts, so he understands what I mean?

[lostforawhile]

not kidding about the rod going straight up saw a car with a linkage like the accord at the yard once, the end of the shift rod was sticking out of the roof, with the shifter in pieces in the car , rare situation but it does happen.

[Nio]

not kidding about the rod going straight up saw a car with a linkage like the accord at the yard once, the end of the shift rod was sticking out of the roof, with the shifter in pieces in the car , rare situation but it does happen.

okay it still has the bolt on *and usable, and the circular piece on it seems to be in decent shape. I may get lucky enough here, and just have to buy the missing parts.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/SSPX0220.jpg

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/SSPX0221.jpg

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/SSPX0222.jpg

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/SSPX0224.jpg

good thing I already had my front wheel off. :P

[lostforawhile]

is it the picture or is the entire rod bent up? if you can get it off ok, it's possible you can put that end in an exhaust pipe expander and make it round again,then the bushing will go back in again

[Nio]

sorry I forgot to rotate that picture.

here it is.

http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/yy41/nionai/My%2089%20Honda%20Accord/SSPX0223-1.jpg

It seems to bend like the diagram does. *but maybe a bit more extreme.*

[lostforawhile]

I can't see how you can even shift gears with it that bad. I'll try to explain how the entire thing works because a lot of people don't know. the entire shifter is full floating, it's not directly anchored to the car, the entire shifter sits in the middle of that torque rod assembly, where it's anchored to the transmission at the front, when the transmission wants to rotate under torque, it acts like a lever and causes the entire shifter and shift rod assembly to slide towards the back of the car, it;s mounted on a single bushing at the back, the bushing is held in by a metal bracket and two bolts, the bolts and nuts go through the center tunnel. the design of the bushing at the back, allows the shifter assembly to slide back and forth on it at it's center. it's an ingenious design, it gives you solid shifts yet, prevents binding in the shift linkage under load. When they have good solid bushings they are one of the best shifting cars i've ever driven, the problem is, most of them look like nio's car by now.

[A18A]

yea there's nothing really holding the shifter in properly, if that rod falls off going down the road, and digs into the ground, it could rip your entire shifter right out of the car. or shoot it straight up into the car and possibly you, like a javelin

reminds me of this thing they done on mythbusters once with a (rwd) cars driveshaft popping off and spposedly making the car jump in the air when the driveshaft fell in a pot hole, but instead it just completely owned the car, i would imagine the same thing would happen to an accord too lol

[lostforawhile]

reminds me of this thing they done on mythbusters once with a (rwd) cars driveshaft popping off and spposedly making the car jump in the air when the driveshaft fell in a pot hole, but instead it just completely owned the car, i would imagine the same thing would happen to an accord too lol

yea thats a pretty heavy piece of steel rod there, all thats holding it at the back is a single bushing it slides on, if the car jumped up on it i can see the shifter coming right up out of the tunnel

[Nio]

Well this is gay....

okay I'm just going to ask...how much would it cost to get a replacement one, instead of repairing this one. *like ripping it out of a parts car, *which I found one about 50 miles away for 350, I'm waiting pictures from it, before I decided if its even worth it, owner says it runs, But after this one. can't be to save.*

[lostforawhile]

Well this is gay....

okay I'm just going to ask...how much would it cost to get a replacement one, instead of repairing this one. *like ripping it out of a parts car, *which I found one about 50 miles away for 350, I'm waiting pictures from it, before I decided if its even worth it, owner says it runs, But after this one. can't be to save.*
like i said if you have friends with a lift, and a few hours, i think you could round that piece back out on a pipe expander,then basically you need the bushing , if they have a garage and lift, chances are they have a pipe expander, or can make a short trip to a muffler shop who does

[A18A]

it looks like yours just needs another bushing, you can pull one out of another cars shift linkage

[lostforawhile]

it looks like yours just needs another bushing, you can pull one out of another cars shift linkagethe end where the bushing goes is all bent and hammered up . it's been banging around pretty bad in there, i think a minute on a pipe expander would make it round again, it might be ok it's really hard to tell, in the video the end looks oblong

[Nio]

it looks like yours just needs another bushing, you can pull one out of another cars shift linkage

well I'm heading up the junkyard monday..so I'll grab that while I'm there


and thank you so much for the help....I really would have been screwed along time ago if it wasn't for you guys. *especially when there as well informed as lostforawhile.

[lostforawhile]

I'm just used to doing things and not explaining them, no problem though, sometimes it's easier to show someone something then to explain it

[lostforawhile]

if you pull one make sure you get BOTH washers and the bolt, one is a flat washer with a larger center hole, the other is the dished washer, they might be in better shape then yours. the reason my bolt looks different is that i broke that tiny POS off in the transmission, so i drilled and tapped it for a 5/16 grade ten bolt instead. put a helicoil in it too. as big as that aluminum pin is they use a tiny ass bolt in it.

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.jegs.com/i/Energy+Suspension/355/16-1101G/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/300/355/355-16-1101G.gif

Really you want a solid bushing but it would have to be made. These above will do.



wp

[Nio]

13$, that sounds good, I might just order them instead of getting some parts from a junker.

[Bluntman]

Once you do this, it will shift like night and day. Yours is really bad, so you will feel a noticeable difference.

[lostforawhile]

http://www.jegs.com/i/Energy+Suspension/355/16-1101G/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/300/355/355-16-1101G.gif

Really you want a solid bushing but it would have to be made. These above will do.



wp
whats the third piece? the kit for the 84 that fits this car has two. i have the part number earlier in this thread.

[Nio]

well I'll be going back to the junk yard tomorrow. since when I went today I only grabbed a oil billet and a bolt for my power steering. >.< since I screwed up and forgot my 10mm so I couldn't get the damn fuel rail off, and didn't have enough time to get under the car like I wanted.

[Dr_Snooz]

not kidding about the rod going straight up saw a car with a linkage like the accord at the yard once, the end of the shift rod was sticking out of the roof, with the shifter in pieces in the car , rare situation but it does happen.

And you didn't take a picture...

:uh:

I'd just get a replacement bushing from the yard and shove it back together. If you try to fix it right, you'll have to drop the exhaust system, the heat shield, the console and the shift assembly. That's going to be a real pain. Shave the bushing if you need to. It will still be miles better than what you have.

[Nio]

well I got the pieces I needed, you can check them out in my build thread.

here.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71344&page=8

I'll find out how much more buttery she feels tonight when I do the test drive.

[Nio]

Got it in. and holy hell.

It is the smoothest 5 speed I've ever felt...Haven't driven it yet, but just sitting in the car and messing with it, its so amazing.

thanks for the help again.

[lostforawhile]

Got it in. and holy hell.

It is the smoothest 5 speed I've ever felt...Haven't driven it yet, but just sitting in the car and messing with it, its so amazing.

thanks for the help again.now you know why it's designed the way it is, the entire shifter moves with transmission twist and keeps the shift rod always parallel to the transmission no matter how hard you accelerate. A lot of other manual transmissions bind up in the shifter under acceleration

[Nio]

now you know why it's designed the way it is, the entire shifter moves with transmission twist and keeps the shift rod always parallel to the transmission no matter how hard you accelerate. A lot of other manual transmissions bind up in the shifter under acceleration

I took her out for a test drive.

after finishing the FI's.. Still got a few things I need to work out with those, She ran amazing for about 5 miles and then went back to her old ways.

I'm going to let her cool then check the FI's again, if its cloged it can't be helped until I get a new filter.

But again thanks.

The shifting while driving is insane, she just feels so much better. Its like a night and day difference.