Carb Spacer

[Rollz87civic]

Well I made a 1 1/2" carb spacer here my write up.
Started out with two of the air suction Valve I belive that is what it is called
Gutted all the mesh heat exchanger stuff.
http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad66/roybiehl90/PICT0089.jpg
Next I but them togather with some Orange RTV selient. you could use a difference kinda but its that's all I had laying around.
http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad66/roybiehl90/PICT0092.jpg
After letting it dry. I let mine Dry for a whole day. May not need that long.
Pulled out all the stock studs for a 1 inch longer bolt.
http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad66/roybiehl90/42752.jpg
What it looks like after all finished
http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad66/roybiehl90/863863.jpg

Adding the space droped my rpm's at 60 to 2,800 rpm witch it normal runns and 3,000 I have no 5th gear

[88Accord-DX]

RTV doesn't last long around the carb bases. That looks pretty cool, what is that, like a turned around stage 4 vacuum modded keihen carb.? (with a few add ons')

[Rollz87civic]

RTV doesn't last long around the carb bases. That looks pretty cool, what is that, like a turned around stage 4 vacuum modded keihen carb.? (with a few add ons')

I don't have any Idea what stage it is. I Have owned 4 3g civic and done modded all my stock carbs. So I just tore into it lol. I still have a fwe other thing to do to it.

http://www.redpepperracing.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=37104&st=0&start=0

[A20A1]

I used to add more spacers between the main body of the carb and the throttle base plate portion of the carb.

those are EFE Plates, I think they are made of phenolic resin?

The hose is routed to help vent the float bowl using venturi vacuum. I wasn't sure if this would have a negative effect on the air pressure in the float or the a/f mix overall. I never got around to testing this carb out fully.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/DSCF0001.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/DSCF0003.jpg

If I remember correctly I was going to adapt this to use weber jets. you can see one sitting atop the keihin jet.. or emulsion tube.

Look carefully at the exit from the accel pump, I notched the edge of that jet to help fuel flow.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/DSCF0008.jpg

links to larger versions
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/DSCF0001b-1.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/DSCF0003b.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/DSCF0008b.jpg






Here is something I drew back in early 2000-2002
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/mec_sec_conv.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/bkmechanicalsecondary.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/Wendy_girl/car%20stuffs/bksidefrontview2.jpg



The accel pump spring was replaced with a tighter one

The tiny internal vacuum hole at the front of the carb that was exposed when I cut off the choke opener, was closed with a gasket and held on via a single screw.


And beware of the throttle sticking open when you do the mechanical secondary conversion.

[carotman]

Adding the space droped my rpm's at 60 to 2,800 rpm witch it normal runns and 3,000 I have no 5th gear

Adding a spacer will not change your rpm

[Rollz87civic]

Adding a spacer will not change your rpm

Then what would change my Rpm? I put everything back on the way It came off.

[A20A1]

I wonder how much cooler your carb runs with two of those spacers.


It be nice to see some dyno results before and after to see where the power band shifts to, if at all.

[lostforawhile]

I wonder how much cooler your carb runs with two of those spacers.


It be nice to see some dyno results before and after to see where the power band shifts to, if at all.

these carbs are very ticky and hard to modify, any changes you make will be detected by the oxygen sensor and the control unit will compensate for it
put a webber on or something

[Rollz87civic]

these carbs are very ticky and hard to modify, any changes you make will be detected by the oxygen sensor and the control unit will compensate for it
put a webber on or something

Who has a O2 sensor?I don't run one. You don't need a o2 sensor on a carb'ed car.'

[lostforawhile]

Who has a O2 sensor?I don't run one. You don't need a o2 sensor on a carb'ed car.'

yes you do, the control unit uses that to allow air into the manifold to adjust the mixture, it also uses other parameters. it's a feedback carb, honda's bastardized attempt to meet emissions with a carbed car,

[Rollz87civic]

yes you do, the control unit uses that to allow air into the manifold to adjust the mixture, it also uses other parameters. it's a feedback carb, honda's bastardized attempt to meet emissions with a carbed car,

I took my o2 sensor out and plugs the hole off on the manifold.

[lostforawhile]

I took my o2 sensor out and plugs the hole off on the manifold.

it's actuallly an air injection system, it measures oxygen in the exaust, plus air temp, uses a speed sensor in the speedometer head to tell if you are above a certain speed and several other parameters. there is also a vaccume control mess under the fender thats not even listed in the book, if you just disconnect one thing, the carb wil run rich and your fuel mileage will suck, check on here about vaccume removal, best thing is to put a webber carb on, lots of people have done it, these carbs suck

[Bass Man]

The reason your idle is so high is because all that RTV you used is now gone and there is a massive air leak. That and you could have some stuff on the carb messing up. Mine used to idle way high till I took the vacuums off.

Seriously, though. RTV can not be used on carbs. They are fine on the intake manifold to the head, but gas eats that stuff up.

I think they are made of phenolic resin?
That's why it was so hard to drill through?? That stuff is insane!



I have a Weber here if you have $100. It's a little dirty and needs a new filter assembly ($15 at the import shop), but it's better than the stock carb. I don't know how bad emmisions are up there if you even have any, but Medford has the sniffer test if you lived in Medford, and that's as far as they go.

[lostforawhile]

The reason your idle is so high is because all that RTV you used is now gone and there is a massive air leak. That and you could have some stuff on the carb messing up. Mine used to idle way high till I took the vacuums off.

Seriously, though. RTV can not be used on carbs. They are fine on the intake manifold to the head, but gas eats that stuff up.

That's why it was so hard to drill through?? That stuff is insane!

phenolic resin is hard to drill through? i've been using it for years at work, I didn't know this

[Bass Man]

Whatever that EFE base is made out of, it took me 3 hours to drill 4 holes (ghetto weber plate)...

[lostforawhile]

Whatever that EFE base is made out of, it took me 3 hours to drill 4 holes (ghetto weber plate)...
it has ceramic in the center it's basically a ceramic electric heater

[Rollz87civic]

The reason your idle is so high is because all that RTV you used is now gone and there is a massive air leak. That and you could have some stuff on the carb messing up. Mine used to idle way high till I took the vacuums off.

Seriously, though. RTV can not be used on carbs. They are fine on the intake manifold to the head, but gas eats that stuff up.

That's why it was so hard to drill through?? That stuff is insane!



I have a Weber here if you have $100. It's a little dirty and needs a new filter assembly ($15 at the import shop), but it's better than the stock carb. I don't know how bad emmisions are up there if you even have any, but Medford has the sniffer test if you lived in Medford, and that's as far as they go.

Smog testing hasent gotten here yet:)

[2ndGenGuy]

Adding the space droped my rpm's at 60 to 2,800 rpm witch it normal runns and 3,000 I have no 5th gear

Adding a carb spacer can't possibly change your RPMs at any speed. The gear ratios are fixed. Unless you have an automatic, but you mentioned having no 5th gear.

[carotman]

it's actuallly an air injection system, it measures oxygen in the exaust, plus air temp, uses a speed sensor in the speedometer head to tell if you are above a certain speed and several other parameters. there is also a vaccume control mess under the fender thats not even listed in the book, if you just disconnect one thing, the carb wil run rich and your fuel mileage will suck, check on here about vaccume removal, best thing is to put a webber carb on, lots of people have done it, these carbs suck

The Canadian 86-87 carb doesn't have an O2 sensor or stuff like that to compensate for the mixture (88-89 does). I wonder how different they are.

Too bad I send my old 89 carb to A20A1.

I'll try to get pictures when I'll rebuild my 87 carb.

[labeledsk8r]

these carbs are very ticky and hard to modify, any changes you make will be detected by the oxygen sensor and the control unit will compensate for it
put a webber on or something

very inacurate information, you being such a carb "guru" i would think would know

the cars ecu is not linked hardly at all to the carb, the entire carb is vacum controled wich vacum is only made by the engine running not some device on the ecu. if he vacum deleted then he allready has done away with any sensors that could adjust for emition related items. the carb is still a carb, devacing them just gets rid of emitions related and doenst really do anytihng for how they run, fuel is set mechanicly, dizy is set mech/vacum. not much else you need to run a car


edit** as to try to help op with info, the spacer will help in the cooling of the air mix and have a longer time for airflow to smooth out, wich helps idle but wont lower it. same thing is done on fuel injected cars wich suposivly can help your low end tourqe aswell, but have never seen dyno numbers to prove

[lostforawhile]

very inacurate information, you being such a carb "guru" i would think would know

the cars ecu is not linked hardly at all to the carb, the entire carb is vacum controled wich vacum is only made by the engine running not some device on the ecu. if he vacum deleted then he allready has done away with any sensors that could adjust for emition related items. the carb is still a carb, devacing them just gets rid of emitions related and doenst really do anytihng for how they run, fuel is set mechanicly, dizy is set mech/vacum. not much else you need to run a car


edit** as to try to help op with info, the spacer will help in the cooling of the air mix and have a longer time for airflow to smooth out, wich helps idle but wont lower it. same thing is done on fuel injected cars wich suposivly can help your low end tourqe aswell, but have never seen dyno numbers to proveall he did was disconnect the O2 sensor, they are very much connected to the carb, the system has no way of detecting this is a fault though, the big white valves on the side of the engine allow air into the manifold in pulses, this leans the mixture to a normal mixture, it gets the rich lean data through the o2 sensor and some other parameters, th problem is the electronic and mechanical control systems don't communicate with each other, it has a computer in the sense it detects inputs and changes the output based on them, but it's a very primitive computer, It could be the dual carb keihin now with it's check engine lights and tps sensors and everything else. Be glad it's not.

[carotman]

It could be the dual carb keihin now with it's check engine lights and tps sensors and everything else. Be glad it's not.

Yeah, the B20A3 has this kind of setup... ***shivers***

[A20A1]

You did? I don't remember

[2ndGenGuy]

Adding a carb spacer can't possibly change your RPMs at any speed. The gear ratios are fixed. Unless you have an automatic, but you mentioned having no 5th gear.

Okay there were like 3 posts in this thread when I posted this, now there are like 10 before mine. Sorry for the stupid comment.

[Bass Man]

very inacurate information, you being such a carb "guru" i would think would know

the cars ecu is not linked hardly at all to the carb, the entire carb is vacum controled wich vacum is only made by the engine running not some device on the ecu. if he vacum deleted then he allready has done away with any sensors that could adjust for emition related items. the carb is still a carb, devacing them just gets rid of emitions related and doenst really do anytihng for how they run, fuel is set mechanicly, dizy is set mech/vacum. not much else you need to run a car
Like lost said, the computer controls the vacuums which control the carb. Take off the O2 and the ECM thinks it's not running rich enough (O2 goes from 1ohm resistence to 5ohm or something like that. 5ohms means theres not enough gas to connect the parts of the sensor, so it richens the system), so then it starts to close off vacuums that usually lean it out, but if you use RTV, then the vacuum leak there will even you out...:eek:

[lostforawhile]

Like lost said, the computer controls the vacuums which control the carb. Take off the O2 and the ECM thinks it's not running rich enough (O2 goes from 1ohm resistence to 5ohm or something like that. 5ohms means theres not enough gas to connect the parts of the sensor, so it richens the system), so then it starts to close off vacuums that usually lean it out, but if you use RTV, then the vacuum leak there will even you out...:eek:

if the ecm thinks it's lean it changes the pulse rate of the frequency solenoid valves and lets less air in the manifold, this allows a richer mixture, the carb is set rich by default, if you take everything off of the control system and down to a basic carb the mixture is factory set rich. This is a default to allow the car to run in the event of a failure in the control system, if it was set lean the car would overheat in a failure. It's the ass backwards setup of a fuel injection system, fuel is fixed instead of air and air is injected in controlled pulses to adjust mixture. I know the entire system backwards and forwards and it's still a complete pain in the ass to fix, people were complaining about fixing them when they were new, now 25 years later a lot of the crap can't even be fixed. There are parts in the carb such as the valve built into the top hat that can't even be fixed. some of the rebuilders have devised ways, but they have special tools to take them apart and have to make the replacement parts themselves since they were never made in the first place, Honda just figured you would buy a new carb or major assembly.

[import racer]

Mine doesn't have an o2 sensor and i'm carbed.No place in manifold for one either.

[lostforawhile]

Mine doesn't have an o2 sensor and i'm carbed.No place in manifold for one either.

the Canadian cars are different then the usdm cars, you don't have the EPA trying to screw up cars before they are even designed.

[Bass Man]

Or Al Gore.

[Rollz87civic]

all he did was disconnect the O2 sensor, they are very much connected to the carb, the system has no way of detecting this is a fault though, the big white valves on the side of the engine allow air into the manifold in pulses, this leans the mixture to a normal mixture, it gets the rich lean data through the o2 sensor and some other parameters, th problem is the electronic and mechanical control systems don't communicate with each other, it has a computer in the sense it detects inputs and changes the output based on them, but it's a very primitive computer, It could be the dual carb keihin now with it's check engine lights and tps sensors and everything else. Be glad it's not.

I did more than just disconect the o2 ever last emission peace is gone the stuiped stuff in the fenders I mean everything.

[A20A1]

The "slow/slow-air jet" is for Off idle to 1/4 throttle.

Keihin documents it as "Slow Mixture Jet" for our carb.
The Slow Mix jet is located next to the primary emulsion tube and is easily unscrewed from the carb, but barring a replacement I guess you'd have to drill it if you wanted it larger. I'm not sure if making it larger lets in more fuel or more air in our case, but keihin says that a larger jet on their other carbs will richen the mixture.


The "Primary and Secondary Air Correction Jet" are located in the top hat, although only the secondary is easily removable.
An increase in size would lean the mixture as engine speed is increased say to 3,000+ rpms, though not positive where that relates to in terms of throttle position.

The "Accelerator Pump Lever" can be bent to adjust the gap between the lever and the accelerator pump rod which will alter the timing of the pump shot.
Adding delay could solve problems of an overly rich stumble.

[lostforawhile]

if you have removed all the junk from the carb, why not get a webber and just install it instead? I think you'll be a lot happier then messing with the pos.

the most likely reason for the high idle is all that rtv you tried to seal the bases with. Oh did you somehow plug the coolant passage in the carb base? RTV dissolves pretty quick in direct contact with fuel, if you used it to seal two carb bases together and there is still coolant flowing in the carb base, you are running the risk of a major coolant leak straight into your intake manifold and possibly even hydrolocking a cyl. That passage is under full water pump pressure. The carb bases are designed to seal with a special O ring not rtv

[mushroom_toy]

My stage 4 vac removal keihin with the manual secondary was simple as hell to mod, and made a huge difference in my car from stock. (the track car project I had), Modding the keihin was free, and a weber is a pricey alternative. :) If anyone does decide to do a stage 4 vac removal go for it. Its worth it imho. I still have one for sell with the manifold if anyone doesnt wanna mod their stock one.