Project that i have been working on!

[RobT5580]

I have been working on this for a few months now and its not finished yet but i finally got my car on the lift to test fit the product. This is a ExplicitSpeedPerformance traction bar that was made possible by the preludepower guys and John@Explicit. Now my kit is not finished so don't bombard explicit as our kit is not marketed as of yet.

Don't mind the rust but here is my mock up:
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/DSCN3381.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/DSCN3380.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/DSCN3379.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/DSCN3378.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/DSCN3377.jpg

And what it will look like when finished:
http://inlinethumb45.webshots.com/44844/2818861340103330866S600x600Q85.jpg
And the preludepower thread http://www.preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326868

And of course there is a catch this traction back utilizes a front torque mount which is NOT considered a front mount. This was designed for cars that have a transmission mount which we do not. So if you intend to buy this kit keep in mind its not going to be all that you need.

With that said i purchase the Innovative mount kit and plan to use the transmission bracket for my chassis and i will have a weld on mount made to be fitted to my B20A bell housing. This was the best option for myself and i wanted to share this with you guys as some people might be interested but is not a complete bolt on package obviously.

[nswst8]

Awesome! I like your projects. Keep this updated.

I also remember why I didn't like staying in CT. Road cancer.

[RobT5580]

Yeah my next chassis will never see snow or rain if i can help it. My yard has a lot to do with it as well because its gravel and it holds a lot of moisture.

[88LXi68]

rob, that looks pretty good. the only problem I see with this design is that it may hang a little too low. great job though!

[Civic Accord Honda]

awesome! and are those Yokohoma snow tires?

[mykwikcoupe]

rob, that looks pretty good. the only problem I see with this design is that it may hang a little too low. great job though!

so is this a better design then what I just bought from you? Nice rob Im going to look into this for my hatch project Im loving the look of it.

[RobT5580]

Its within a inch of where the factory tow hooks are so i don't think that will be a issue. The biggest issue is the engine mount but that has many solutions wether its making a better front mount and not using what they currently offer.

I will keep you guys posted i did put this up a little premature but i am bored and have been working on a lot of stuff.

[carotman]

Nice piece of equipment. This should improve traction. I always had wheel hop problems with sticky tires at the dragstrip.



P.S.
Your B20A Oil pan makes me sad.

Sandblast this bitch!

[RobT5580]

Don't worry that is a spare B20A that i picked for for a little over $300 a while back. I have a lot of work to do but i think this year will be a good year of progress if all falls into place.

[88LXi68]

so is this a better design then what I just bought from you? Nice rob Im going to look into this for my hatch project Im loving the look of it.

I am not sure if this is a better design, but this bar does look nicer. Although, the other bar was track tested and proven.

[markmdz89hatch]

see now you had to go and do something crazy like this huh Rob? Good to see she's starting to get some love again.

Any idea of what the price is going to look like?

[RobT5580]

They run around $400 i believe i did take mine unfinished and was a test dummy so i got it a little cheaper. The company is great to deal with and the fabrication is top notch.

[2drSE-i]

So is this the 88-91 Lude kit?

Is the torque mount too long?

Anywho, ESP makes AWESOME traction bars. Super strong, you can still jack the car up on them.

[RobT5580]

Yeah is basically the same main bar but were working on a few adjustments. The B20A5 leans back father and as expected the torque rod is to long but i knew it would be. So i am working on getting a new one and i will powdercoat the stuff i have now that i know it works.

Hopefully i get a chassis in the next few months so i can install this kit.

[guaynabo89]

:( I remember when those calipers were all shiny n new.


Looking good Rob. I also need to work on a traction bar setup. So many projects not enough dough.

[RobT5580]

Soon enough i will have a new project car to make all shiny new again. My brother and I are getting swamped with work so i will keep on ordering parts and hope to find time to do something with them all LOL.

The traction bar is pretty much a done deal John@Explicit has radius rods and a new torque mount in the sizes i need on the shelf. So i will ship mine back this week and the kit is complete once i coat mine and get the new rods in.

[2drSE-i]

So basically these will be available to order through ESP real soon? Its just the 88-91 kit with different radius rods and a different torque mount?

This is awesome Rob. Never cease to be an innovator.


My guess is that we would have to worry about the front mount for us A-series guys.

[RobT5580]

Pretty much and yeah i think something will need to be done for the front mount which is needed for the B20A as well. I personally want to use a transmission mount on my setup but im sure something can be made to be used on the traction bar.

[2drSE-i]

I think it would be beneficial to add a trans mount anyway. I just wonder if the torque mount they give you for the B20A will be the same length we need for the A motors.

[guaynabo89]

doubt it. It looks way too long. Remeber the A has a serious drunken lean forward.

Actually with just the bar and the radius rodrs the front mount wouldnt be that hard. Just have to find some good mount.

[2drSE-i]

The one in the picture is for the 88-91 B20/B21. It was way too long for Rob to use too. They are sending him another one :)

[RobT5580]

It should fit as the B20A sits on the A20A3 front mount. And yeah i agree with adding a tranny mount i was never a fan of one side mount and a front and rear. I would prefer two side mounts and one of the other.

[mykwikcoupe]

whats the real purpose of the lower trans brace if you have a stiff, solid front and rear brace as well as the one by the belts (drivers side mount)? Could you get away with not using the lower mount but keeping the dogbone?

[RobT5580]

That lower mount seems useless to me as our mounts seem poor anyway. I replaced all my mounts when i did my turbo and it moves quite a bit which has pushed me for alternatives. I still drive my accord with a stock b20a and its annoying to feel the engine rock as much as it does so hopefully in the end it will be a solid platform with little vibration.

[bullard123]

Looking good. Glad to see you are working on her again :)

[RobT5580]

Thanks, I think my addiction is coming back now that i don't have a daily driver. I have a lot of things that i have been working on so hopefully it all comes together soon. The rebuild should be underway very soon.

[mykwikcoupe]

Just a thought, how about a solid front mount but a rubber isolator where the front crossmember bolts to the frame? You could do the same for the rear mount as well i suppose. Im not sure if anyone has came up with a modified rear thats better then just window welding it. I got Johnny O front crossmember today and it has a large crack in i that will need to be welded or patched again. Im thinking ill take it to my fabricator and have them biuld me a new one based on this design. maybe compare this one with pics of yours and see what I get. If you had to change anything on your curret one what would it be?

[RobT5580]

Overall seems like a solid design the only thing that could be modified is something along the lines of a front mount. This would make it appeal to more buyers on our forum for sure. But then again i am not sure many would buy this other than a handful of us that are in this for the long haul. This kit is marketed for many chassis lineups so i am confident that it will suit its purpose.

In a ideal situation i would run two side mounts and a nice rear mount and keep the front open as many newer honda's are. I had issues selecting a turbo manifold design because my wastegate would either hit the front mount or the radiator. I did order innovative mounts with the intention to use the passenger side mount and adapt it to a weld on mount to my bell housing. But i have considered using the rear and trying to make a modified 90-93 Integra rear bracket to fit the new innovative mount. But one step at a time i need to do the tranny mount to use this cross member.

[mykwikcoupe]

Ill be ordering one for sure when my hatch project starts and the coupe is back on the road. I thiniko that would provide the best clearances for the b series swap and they dont use the front mount anyways. I stopped by the fabricators and the cost to replicate the one I bought from steve is more then this cost. Id rather have these anyways since the radius rods are totally tits

[RobT5580]

Mike they are located in Washington not sure if its in your area or not....

[mykwikcoupe]

Not so much my area more Juhn turks area. Its about a 2 hour drive but still well worth a shot to stop by. Thanks for the heads up. Even more reason to buy.

[MessyHonda]

Not so much my area more Juhn turks area. Its about a 2 hour drive but still well worth a shot to stop by. Thanks for the heads up. Even more reason to buy.

yeah get me one that clear the b20.....all of us b20 guys need one.

[RobT5580]

Well John@Explicit shipped out the new radius rods today so the kit is pretty much complete as far as they are concerned. Once i get a new chassis i will install the kit and work on a transmission mount (B20A) and see what comes up. I will see how the kit seems w/o a transmission mount but i don't think it will be enough. I would expect forward/rearward movement but i have always had the intention of doing a transmission mount.

[2drSE-i]

yeah get me one that clear the b20.....all of us b20 guys need one.

You do realize that Rob's car does have a B20 right?

[mykwikcoupe]

With a solid front mount, window welded rear mount and no dogbone is how Im planning on running. Ill try to modify the dogbone a bit possibly. Take some good videos so we can see how it leans and when. Id think just sitting on the ground, ebrake on and putting the engine under load stress should work

[RobT5580]

Your new traction bar will definitely help out since it has that solid front mount. The bushings in my dogbone mount were replaced but they do little to nothing for that particular mount. I will see how it all comes together when i get to that point. I just powdercoated the traction bar/hardware today so thats all set now.

[Ichiban]

Where is the center beam? The one that ties the front and rear crossmembers together into one solid structure? Without it, all of the braking and acceleration forces are transferred to the chassis through the front crossmember, not evenly through multiple points like Honda intended. It shouldn't be hard to add a perch to the center of the part to facilitate bolting on the center beam and a front motor mount. Should it?

[RobT5580]

The kit does not incorporate that and i know a few of the guys are running other custom traction bars that work without one as well. And yes it would be fairly easy to incorporate one as well but i plan to run without it.

My kit is now complete but i was not going to install it until i pick up another chassis but things seem to be slowing down a bit which oddly spring typically picks up for trades.

[2drSE-i]

Where is the center beam? The one that ties the front and rear crossmembers together into one solid structure? Without it, all of the braking and acceleration forces are transferred to the chassis through the front crossmember, not evenly through multiple points like Honda intended. It shouldn't be hard to add a perch to the center of the part to facilitate bolting on the center beam and a front motor mount. Should it?

I've read a similar question in ESP's house forums. Basically, the response was that the flimsy sheetmetal center beam wasn't necessary, as the new MUCH stronger front crossmember/traction bar more than compensated for it. I'll look around for it

[Ichiban]

I've read a similar question in ESP's house forums. Basically, the response was that the flimsy sheetmetal center beam wasn't necessary, as the new MUCH stronger front crossmember/traction bar more than compensated for it. I'll look around for it

I understand that the front crossmember is much stronger, however the mounting points on the chassis remain the same. And yes, there's not much to the center beam, but if you look at the design, it seems extremely strong in compression and tension, exactly where it needs to be to distribute forces across the two transverse beams.

I also see that the rubber bushings have been completely eliminated. I realize that's great for handling, but isn't it also going to further increase stress on the chassis mounts? There's certain parts of my car that I don't want fatiguing and breaking, and that whole system is definitely one of them.

Anyways, I'm not bashing the project at all, actually I'm trying to be constructive. I need to build a similar bar for my 2g, so the B20A exhaust will clear the friggin thing. I modified a stock crossmember from a 2.5g, but I really don't trust the extra stress that's going to be on it now that I've changed it's shape. I figure that fabbing a bar like the one you guys have here will be easiest and safest, but I only have one mount per side, unlike your two.....even further reason for me to want to keep the center beam.

[RobT5580]

The one on the center beam seems to be useless on my car as it does not seem the do its job. I understand all the concerns with this design but this is the same design that they use on their other honda chassis lines. And perhaps with all modifications you are altering the pre-engineered state as it was intended so you always run a risk of extra stress.

I have not had a chance to run the product but i will post up my findings when i get it installed. But i expect it to be a few months as i am looking for a new chassis.

[mykwikcoupe]

send it to me Ill let you know in a few days. I was thinking of getting this for my b18c swap and using the front torque rod mount as the front to rear cross member attaching point. Id weld up a bracket that bolts to the rear locastion and use a billet radious rod as the member with heims joints. It appears that front mount is close enough to the center of the bay that it wouldnt be hard to fab the rear section at all. This is what I was thinking since the newer b series engines dont have a front mount near the radiator.

[carotman]

For your application Ichiban, I would try to re-use the OEM bushings on the chassis mount points.

[MessyHonda]

i have a trans mount on the b20 that tommy sold me...il see if i can find some pics...

nvm...he deleted them from his photobucket

[RobT5580]

i have a trans mount on the b20 that tommy sold me...il see if i can find some pics...

nvm...he deleted them from his photobucket

When i say transmission mount i mean side not the rear one. In my opinion two side mounts and a rear or front would be ideal. I don't get why some had the tranny side mount and we got the rear but no side. I think i have a decent fix for it if i ever get the innovative mount kit. It will be more work than the average member would want to do but it is needed for my project.

[MessyHonda]

When i say transmission mount i mean side not the rear one. In my opinion two side mounts and a rear or front would be ideal. I don't get why some had the tranny side mount and we got the rear but no side. I think i have a decent fix for it if i ever get the innovative mount kit. It will be more work than the average member would want to do but it is needed for my project.

i have a front mount...its connected by 2 of the trans bolts...i wish i could get pics but my motor is 80 miles from me

[mykwikcoupe]

Just in case anyone else is interested, the company rob bought the torque rod kit from are also willing to sell seperate pieces as well. Im ordering the radious rod kit complete with heims, double knuckle pin and whatever length of 1 1/4 bar I need. They said rob swapped from the 17in prelude bar to the 16in bar for his accord but since mine is more custom Ill probably end up with something different. Thanks for the link rob.

[RobT5580]

Yeah i swapped the 17" bars because they left no slack to adjust them at all. This way there will be some adjustment in case someone's car is slightly off from mine then they can adjust the helms joint.

Good luck with yours mike and John was extremely helpful and willing to work with me.

[AccordB20A]

id be all over one of these if we didnt have to certify any modifications over here!!

[Tdurr]

hmmm i want a kit.. i can weld shit up for free at school...

[Accordtheory]

the flimsy sheetmetal center beam wasn't necessary, as the new MUCH stronger front crossmember/traction bar more than compensated for it

Well, I don't know flimsy that beam is, when you can jack the entire front of the car up with it.

This is a pretty cool thread, and a cool project.
I've been in the market forever for a traction bar setup, but haven't decided what I want to do for sure yet. Here are my thoughts on this. With my vtec motor, I've had a hell of a time getting my car to hook up. It used to wheelhop so horribly that it was completely unlaunchable. Lowering the passenger side tranny mount and using softer motor mount bushings mostly solved that. People always think wheelhop is deflection in the suspension bushings, and/or deflection in the mount bushings, but that wasn't it. However, my car still does not hook like I want. Would those solid spherical rod ends help? No doubt. But how long are they going to last? A few months? They don't have sealed, greasable fittings, and I live where the roads are complete shit. So I'd rather use poly oem style bushings.
Next, the center beam thing. I want a center beam. I want the front and rear crossmembers tied together, just like from the factory. But I doubt I'll be able to do that. That will be right in the way of my downpipe, thanks to the b series oil pickup being on the other side of the pan, if I remember correctly..
Also, the factory crossmembers are not rigidly mounted to the frame, they are mounted with rubber bushings. So connecting a rigidly mounted front "traction bar" crossmember to the rubber mounted rear one, I don't know how that would work. But I don't want my rear crossmember twisting from the rear motor mount. With my setup, the entire rear crossmember flexes from the torque of the launch/shifts, Especially without a front mount to cut that force in half. I believe that running a front mount is absolutely critical, contrary to what those guys at innovative mounts think. When they weren't accusing me of lying, talking shit, and refusing to sell me new bushings, they were spewing some bullshit about how you can run 3 mounts with 85a hardness and you won't have wheelhop. Bullshit, your rear crossmember will flex more than the softer mounts would, causing even worse wheelhop.

Rob, and the rest of you guys, what do you think about any of this, and how strong is that traction bar? If you lift the car with a jack in the center of it, and try to make it bounce with the jack, how stiff is it?

[RobT5580]

Um....I have not installed the completed kit yet but the bar is very solid. Its much more solid than i even expected so i doubt it will flex much if any. I will probably make something up to tie the rear and front together when i get the car on the lift for more fabrication. I plan to make a tranny mount so i plan to run a rear mount, two side mounts, and the front stabilize provided on the traction bar which is strong. I would trust the stabilizer as a mounting point if it could restrict back and forth motion which the design was not intended to do. But i want a side mount reguardless so i won't have to worry about it.

John@explicit is very helpful and makes a full line up for the 3rd gen lude. Im sure if someone local (WA) brought a accord down he would gladly make any related parts.

I never considered the rod ends i guess time will tell but im sure we could fix that with new ends with grease fittings. My car won't be daily driven so i am not as concerned with wear and tear although i do want solid high end parts as most of you know.

You could post up on preludepower and see if anyone has been using the setup daily and overall opinions.

[MessyHonda]

yeah he was also going to make us a front strut bar but it didnt go thru because no one came in with a 3 gee

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65226

[2drSE-i]

Well, I don't know flimsy that beam is, when you can jack the entire front of the car up with it.

Next, the center beam thing. I want a center beam. I want the front and rear crossmembers tied together, just like from the factory. But I doubt I'll be able to do that. That will be right in the way of my downpipe, thanks to the b series oil pickup being on the other side of the pan, if I remember correctly..
Also, the factory crossmembers are not rigidly mounted to the frame, they are mounted with rubber bushings. So connecting a rigidly mounted front "traction bar" crossmember to the rubber mounted rear one, I don't know how that would work. But I don't want my rear crossmember twisting from the rear motor mount. With my setup, the entire rear crossmember flexes from the torque of the launch/shifts, Especially without a front mount to cut that force in half. I believe that running a front mount is absolutely critical, contrary to what those guys at innovative mounts think. When they weren't accusing me of lying, talking shit, and refusing to sell me new bushings, they were spewing some bullshit about how you can run 3 mounts with 85a hardness and you won't have wheelhop. Bullshit, your rear crossmember will flex more than the softer mounts would, causing even worse wheelhop.

Rob, and the rest of you guys, what do you think about any of this, and how strong is that traction bar? If you lift the car with a jack in the center of it, and try to make it bounce with the jack, how stiff is it?
Didnt know how strong that center beam is. I've jacked on the front x-member, but that center one just looks like it would cave. Guess not.

What you could do, and this is just hypothetical, is instead of the stock center beam, is run two new center beams on the right and left sides (Clearing the downpipe and oil pickup) of the motor. Mount it directly to the new solid front x-member, and put rubber (or poly) bushings on the rear x-member. Would limit the flex of the old crossmember (i'd hope) and still tie the subframe together. Or you could fab a new solid rear crossmember too, but even more fab work...

ugly keyboard drawing
________new xmember________
****I****************I
****I*****motor*******I
****I****************I
---Bushing-----Old-----Bushing


Oh and messy, i tried for several months to get the guy to respond, they were super busy at the time and our market just didn't appeal that much to them i guess.

[RobT5580]

I was referring to the new front bar not the center beam just to clear that up.

[Accordtheory]

I think I finally know what I'm going to do..anyone heard of johnny joints? Fuck rod ends..

[Importordomestic]

I think I finally know what I'm going to do..anyone heard of johnny joints? Fuck rod ends..

Just what i needed! good find.

[2drSE-i]

Made any progress on this Rob?

[mykwikcoupe]

ok why is a johnny joint better then a rod end? My kit is ordered rob. All I needed was the radious rods. I went with the 16in kit you requested as opposed to the 17in that comes in the kit. I sure hope it works well.

[2drSE-i]

Johnny joints are rebuildable, greasable, and quieter than heim joints. Arguably, they also have additional travel, but I only read that once....

Edit, read again, johnny joint wiki says 8* more travel, bringing it to 30* as opposed to 22*

[2drSE-i]

Pic added for reference. You can see the Zerks fitting. Also, with a sleeve, you could adapt these to the stock radius arms. You would have to cut them shorter though.
http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/images/product//currie/ce9112sp.jpg

[2drSE-i]

Bump, Rob, made any progress buddy?

[RobT5580]

Had a major set back unrelated but im moving tonight and have a nice garage to myself so maybe i can make some progress. I just sent the traction bar out to powder coat as the stuff i had was old and didnt adhere well. So when it comes back i will throw it on my new chassis since im swapping all my parts over.

I should have it on in a month or so and will post up pictures. This will be experimental since i plan to have a custom tranny mount welded to my B20A tranny as this kit is not intended to replace the front mount. But i will try it out since my car will be stuck inside for the winter.

[2drSE-i]

Awesome man, good to hear from ya! Don't be such a stranger :)

[markmdz89hatch]

Wow Rob, nice to see you're making more progress than I am (which is absolutely none). Pics once this new setup goes on (or is even just mock'd up) por favor.

[RobT5580]

I mocked it up on my red coupe when i first got it since the design came from the 3rd gen prelude. It was all the same with the exception of some minor things and the radius rod length and the stabilizer length.

It should be back in from powder coat this week and i will put it on my new chassis and post up pictures and my thoughts.

[RobT5580]

Ok so i finally was able to mount the kit on my new chassis and took it for a test run today. The only negative aspect i came across when used with a A20A engine was that when jacked up the drivers axle will rub on the new hardware that attaches the radius rods. But i drove a few miles and with it lowered on H&R's i didnt hear any rubbing nor do i think its even a issue when the car is on the ground. I couldn't check with my xenon kit blocking my view and my floor jack crapped out so i can't jack it up. Keep in mind this is the kit using a stabilizer bar in place of a front motor mount. Personally i feel it probably is stiff enough and strong enough but that is your judgement call as i still plan to make a tranny mount for my B20A. My B20A powered accord has a lot of play in the motor as is and my donor chassis with this kit has very little so im skeptical that my play is coming from a modified rear mount bracket which is shorter than stock since i was running a victor x intake manifold.

I will post pictures when i get a new jack and these are preliminary impressions as it was a short trip and i don't have time to look over things at the moment. But thus far i am pleased! The only modifications to the kit was a much shorter torque mount rod and shorter radius rods. Other than that its a straight up 3rd gen prelude kit and the only change i may recommend is to move the torque mount bracket over 1/4 or an inch. I will relay this to John@Explicit onces im satisfied that this is a bolt on kit and ready for production.

[guaynabo89]

glad to hear man.....now post those pics! :lol:

[mykwikcoupe]

sweet rob thats great. Ive been waiting to hear if its working out. Im ordering mine soon then. Thats great.

[AccordB20A]

cool stuff man, so your not running that center bar thing that goes under the engine?? i reckon people using the wrong one of those is what makes b20as lean in certain accords, cause the mount on it may be different between engines/gearboxes. does having that brace thing not there affect the engine mounts in any way?

[RobT5580]

cool stuff man, so your not running that center bar thing that goes under the engine?? i reckon people using the wrong one of those is what makes b20as lean in certain accords, cause the mount on it may be different between engines/gearboxes. does having that brace thing not there affect the engine mounts in any way?

I don't think that that mount really supports the motor that well it seems it would control front to back movements but not all that functional. Most people are worried about loosing that bar will affect the chassis otherwise. I have noticed some B20A's have a bit of lean but i doubt that is the reason. I still plan to adapt a weld on mount to my B20A transmission in addition to using the B-Series mounts that i bought for a newer b-swap.

I will get pictures up asap but i need to get another jack.

[RobT5580]

I finally was able to get the car out on the highway and put a few miles on with the traction bars in and everything seems fine. Normally you should get an alignment right away but i have a lot of things going in before this will be done but i wanted to get some feedback up before winter rolls in and the car is torn apart.

Here are a few pictures:
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/Picture122.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/Picture121.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/Picture120.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/Picture123.jpg
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu98/RobT5580/Picture124.jpg

[2drSE-i]

That. Is. Awesome.

I take it there are no issues with rubbing on the axle?

[RobT5580]

I forgot to try to check that with the car on the ground but i drove it fairly aggressive today with no rubbing at all. I noticed a little more vibration (engine) transferred through the torque mount but i fully expect that given i removed a engine mount. But i still want to adapt my Innovative B-series mount into the equation on the tranny with some sort of a weld on bracket.

The overall install was straight forward you will have to drop the lower knuckle to get around the axle with the new hardware which is longer than the stock bolts. The only issues i had was a broken floor jack and i manage to damage a thread on the lower ball joint but i had brand new ones sitting on my work bench so i cut some of the threads off with a die grinder to test out the kit.

[Keachman1]

Cool stuff Rob. Keep up the good work. BTW, I noticed your right, outer CV boot is torn in your pics. Time for a new boot if the axle is still good.

[RobT5580]

That is not the one that rubbed that is just worn it was rubbing on the actual axle on the drivers side. Its only an issue with the car jacked up but keep in mind my car is lowered and i would assume anyone planning on using this would be. Also i will be using a intermediate shaft so my axle angle will be the same as the passenger side.