Is there a bridge over troubled water?

[Nafs Asdf]

Troubled water in this case being my coolant... A lot of it missing and some presumably frozen.

It was downwards -30°C last night, around -20° in the morning when I went to drop the kids off at daycare and get myself to work. I have the block heater on a timer so the engine was nice and warm. Started up just fine as usual, and then I left it to idle a couple minutes while getting the kids in the car. I got in and noticed that I only got ice cold air from the vents, didn't think too much of it as I figured it would heat up soon... Well I was wrong. Halfway to the kindergarten (only a short drive there, about 5 mins) the temp gauge started rising, and still no heat from the vents. When I pulled into the parking lot the temp was right at the top.

Took the kids in, came back to the car and popped the hood. Reserve tank was completely empty altho the radiator had coolant up to the top and some even poured out when I opened the cap (reserve tank hose frozen?). Upper hose was slightly warm, and the lower one was real cold except right next to the engine.

I let it cool down for a minute, then headed back home (couldn't leave the car where it was). Temp started spiking about halfway again and hit the red zone just as I got home, parked the car and poked around a bit under the hood but not knowing what I should look for or do I left it at that. When squeezing the hoses the fluid level in the radiator dropped as a bunch of air came out, and I filled up the radiator with fresh coolant. Started the car to see what would happen and it just seemed like it wouldn't circulate the fluid at all. It would just spew it up when I opened the radiator cap. Realized I couldn't do much about it then and there, so I called my work buddy to come pick me up.


So what am I likely looking at here?
Nothing serious, will fix it self when the it melts...
Just some burst hoses...
Head gasket...
Split block/head, new engine..

Those are pretty much the scenarios I could come up with, but I'll need help to figure out what it is.

So, what should I do?

[w261w261]

Well, it's gotta thaw out, then you'll be able to see. Sounds like the coolant froze in the lower radiator hose, maybe in the block. If it hit the block, you will have to look and see if a freeze plug popped. I'm thinking no.

If you would have had a 50-50 mix in the coolant, it should have been able to handle -30c. So you should probably flush and refill the system with fresh 50/50, or if it's too cold to do that, bring the system back to full with 100% antifreeze and test it with one of those little gizmos. Anyway, when things warm up, refilll the cooling system (rad cap off, fill recovery tank 1/2 full, open bleeder valve that's near the thermostat, fill radiator). Start the car, and wait until the thermostat opens (you'll see the liquid in the radiator start to flow). Add more coolant to the radiator if it drops. Meantime, the bleed valve will start to spit air and water. Let it go until the stream is constant coolant (no air) and definitely wait until after the thermostat opens to get out the air that was in the radiator/hoses. Close the bleed valve, put on the radiator cap (maybe buy a new cap) and see if any leaks are dripping from hoses or the block.

Let us know. -30c Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Nine months of winter and 3 months of bad skating.

[Nafs Asdf]

Just got home and filled it up with some 100% coolant I picked up on way back. Also hooked it up to the block heater to try and warm things up. I guess I'll leave it for a while and try and start it up tonight. Where are the freeze plugs at? would probably be good to check those just in case...

[Bluntman]

I wonder if the thermostat went bad and just picked this time to do it also.

[w261w261]

Also, after you've finished with bleeding the system, be sure to flush the area where the coolant dropped down. Ethylene Glycol is very poisonous, and it's sweet, so dogs love it. Even a teaspoon can make a dog very sick, and they can die if they get into it.

[nswst8]

You will need to give us a history of your cooling system maintenence.

Waterpump last changed when?

Thermostat?

Water hoses?

[Nafs Asdf]

You will need to give us a history of your cooling system maintenence.

Waterpump last changed when?

Thermostat?

Water hoses?


Waterpump and hoses haven't been changed as long as I've had it (2 years). And no idea if they've been changed before that.
Thermostat was changed about 6 months ago.

[Nafs Asdf]

Ok so I was just out and had the car idling for a bit and noticed something strange... While it was warming up I was getting warm-ish air out of the vents but when the temp gauge reached about normal operating temp it turned ice cold again. However I'm pretty sure the coolant was circulating as I could see it move with the cap off and feel it in the hoses. Any ideas as to why?

On another (related) note, my coolant is somewhat milky. Am I in for a new head gasket?Haven't noticed any extra smoking or weirdness in the oil tho.

[2drSE-i]

Ok so I was just out and had the car idling for a bit and noticed something strange... While it was warming up I was getting warm-ish air out of the vents but when the temp gauge reached about normal operating temp it turned ice cold again. However I'm pretty sure the coolant was circulating as I could see it move with the cap off and feel it in the hoses. Any ideas as to why?

On another (related) note, my coolant is somewhat milky. Am I in for a new head gasket?Haven't noticed any extra smoking or weirdness in the oil tho.

If the oil is also milky, you've got a headgasket

[w261w261]

Ok so I was just out and had the car idling for a bit and noticed something strange... While it was warming up I was getting warm-ish air out of the vents but when the temp gauge reached about normal operating temp it turned ice cold again. However I'm pretty sure the coolant was circulating as I could see it move with the cap off and feel it in the hoses. Any ideas as to why?

On another (related) note, my coolant is somewhat milky. Am I in for a new head gasket?Haven't noticed any extra smoking or weirdness in the oil tho.

Have you bled the system? If not, and you have some air in it, that could cause the heater symptom you've described.

You mentioned that the coolant is moving with the cap off. It should be definitely moving like a current. The vibration of the car can make the coolant shake around, but that's not movement.

Have you let the car come up to full operating temperature? Does it still spike the temperature at all? When the car is warmed up, does the temperature stabilize? At the same level as before? If you have a leaking head gasket, if the leak is into the water jacket it can pump up the system, resulting in the pressure relief valve in the radiator cap opening, and the coolant dumping to the coolant tank, which will eventually overflow. When the car cools, you will ultimately be left with less coolant than you need. Perhaps this happened to you. If you have combustion products in the coolant it might look as you described.

If the head gasket breeches bigger time, then the coolant will get into the combustion chamber and subsequently to the crankcase. It will turn the oil into more of a slurry-looking affair. If the leak is bad enough, you will be getting a white steam out the tailpipe. Since it's so cold there, it might be harder to differentiate this steam from the regular tailpipe emissions. If it's bad, though, there will be a huge cloud, no mistaking that. The spark plug in the affected cylinder will also be very clean.

Some guys on this site whip off heads and put on new head gaskets like they
are changing a light bulb. For the rest of us, there's mechanics, and that job is not so cheap. I had a Volvo once that did the pump-up-the-cooling system thing because my son let it overheat. I bought a can of Moroso Ceramic Sealer and the problem was fixed til we sold the car a year or so later. You do have to *completely* flush all the antifreeze out of the system for it to work though. For me, less than $20 fixed a problem that was going to be closer to $1,000 for a new head gasket.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=22005

[Nafs Asdf]

Now I'm getting the heater to actually produce heat. I warmed the car up again but still while idling it was blowing ice cold, took it for a short drive and almost as soon as I started moving it started blowing warmer. For some reason it doesn't blow warm before you're driving.

Temperature and everything seems stable now. Still have to bleed the system properly but not tonight, I need to get to sleep soon and at least I can take the car to work tomorrow now.

I've had to fill up the coolant every now and then, but can't really say if it's overflowing or just leaking. There doesn't seem to be anything extra in the oil tho. And yeah, any car makes huge clouds out the tailpipe at these temps, so can't really tell until it gets warmer. Might just do a compression test tomorrow, and maybe that'll tell me something.

If it comes to having to do the head gasket I'll most likely try to tackle it myself, partly because I want to learn to do it and partly because I don't want to pay someone to do something I can get done myself. But as with everything else it needs to get warmer 'round here first.

If things get worse I might just get a random beater for a couple hundred and bump this thing from dd/project to full time project. ;)

[w261w261]

If you have a minor leak, first make sure that a hose or something doesn't have a hole in it. Go get a bottle of Bar's stop leak, and follow instructions. This stuff has been around for ages. Before using it though, do the bleeding of the system. Bar's will see the bleeder valve open and say: "Let's fix this leak!" and try to plug up the bleeder valve. No biggie, you can always clean it out, but easier to bleed, then add Bar's. It works for the small stuff. Don't use more than one bottle that says "For 4 cylinder engines."

http://www.barsproducts.com/barsleaks_products.htm