not starting - any suggestions?

[ottomatic]

here is the deal step by step,

89 accord lx carbed , NO EFI.
inserted key in ignition, turned to start position.
started to tun the motor, (sounded different than usual..not really fast turn over like normal, but kinda slow and labored sounding.)
then i smelled an electrical type burning smell.

ahead.....
i have a new battery, not the problem OK.
removed the starter (not the easiest job on an 3g), had it tested (not under load) passed OK?.
ignition switch (keyed) OK.

any ideas??
what else in the chassis or body electrical system would effect starting.
i cant find any burned or otherwised affected devices anywhere.
that would give off that initial smell?

any input would be greatly appreciated.
thanks.

[CzEcHy]

The burning smell was outside or inside?

The only thing(s) that would cause the starter to not work is...

(based on experience with everyone of these happening to me in the last couple of weeks, especially today)


-Battery
-Fuse
-Positive battery cable (the thick one that goes to the starter, check the terminals/wire itself and the fitting on the starter and terminal, nice and tight and connecting 100% metal/metal, a new one costs like 6$ at advance auto)
-Bad starter or worn out starter regardless of test (mine passes to yet it needs replaced after 5 months)
-Check the teeth that the starter connects to, check for missing or broken teeth (hopefully it's fine, you have to remove the starter to do this)
-I may be forgetting something so someone come and add some

As for the smell, like I said was it outside in the engine bay or inside the car?


Also, make sure when you're starting your carb'd car, that you've pushed the pedal enough to get the right amount of gas, as so the starter won't work as hard (again based on experience of my own problems, not saying you already don't do this correctly lol)

[ottomatic]

The burning smell was outside or inside?
i think it was coming from under the hood, but i really cant say for sure...
but that was my first thought at the time.




-Battery
-Fuse
-Positive battery cable
-Check the teeth that the starter connects to, check for missing or broken teeth (hopefully it's fine, you have to remove the starter to do this)

all of these are OK... but the NEG (-) wire looks a little corroded.
ill swap that out



-Bad starter or worn out starter regardless of test (mine passes to yet it needs replaced after 5 months)

could be, that is the only thing that has not really been tested under a load, or loaded conditions outside of the vehicle itself..

[2drSE-i]

The starter sounded slow? First thing I'd do is get a jump. If that speeds up the starter, Your battery might be dead. Not to say that the battery is bad, but maybe a problem with your charging system.

[1ajs]

do you smell it inside the car?

are you able to run the sterio and other things fine in auxilery mode?

have you checked ur alt at all?

[itzdave]

check the grounds too!

[ottomatic]

The starter sounded slow? First thing I'd do is get a jump. If that speeds up the starter, Your battery might be dead.

thats a really good idea, will try that first.





do you smell it inside the car?

are you able to run the sterio and other things fine in auxilery mode?

have you checked ur alt at all?

i dont think its inside the car, i think it is from under the hood.

stereo works, dome light on, etc...

havent checked the alt,.. its not a charging problem,
but do you think that may have something to with it???




check the grounds too!



will do that too, actually this is the one i need to do first.
mare sure the wire isint corroded or frayed or whatever.






thanks guys for all of the quick responses,
ill go throu these the next day or so and let you know what happens.

[1ajs]

no just ticking things off ok well i would check ur starter wires check ur vacme and fuel filter and see if ur carb boul is full of crap speacly sine this eithial stuff in the fuel loves eating fuel filters

[Hauntd ca3]

if the batt is known to be good, ie passes a high rate discharge test and it still cranks slow, it points to the brushes in the starter to me.
even tho it may pass a no load test with worn brushes, it wouldnt have a hope of passing a stall test.
whip the starter off, take the end cap off and have a look at the brushes and the state of the commutator.
if the brushes run to low for to long, you will burn up the comm and effectively fuck the starter, since armatures are not cheap.
give the earths a check , but i doubt there will be much wrong with them.
that burning smell is prob the motor cable between the solenoid and the starter motor melting the insulation

[ottomatic]

went to the junk yard yesterday and pulled a starter.
on the way home I stopped off and got a new ground wire.

installed the starter.
installed the ground.

same damn thing.


im staring to think I broke something in the motor.
because,
the sound and behavior of the vehicle turning over,
its kinda like starting a high compression motor.
hard to explain the sound.

ignition on,
start,
quick turn,
sloooooooooooooow turn,



this sucks.

[2drSE-i]

I take it it still wont start at all? Try pulling a spark plug and checking its condition. Not really sure what to expect, but worth a try.

[Dr_Snooz]

If you think it's compression, then pull all the plugs. That will prevent all compression. If the problem persists, then you don't have a compression problem.

I'm a little concerned about the burning smell. What have you been doing on the car lately? Wiring new stereos? Digging around in the wire looms under the dash? Running an arc welder off your alternator? What do you think burned and why? Do the lights go dim when you crank? Do you here arcing or buzzing when you crank? I'd be curious to know what the voltage on the battery looks like while you're cranking. It sounds like the current that would normally be going to your starter has found a new path to ground through whatever wires burned together.

[Hauntd ca3]

i still think that you ma have a dud starter, that is if the grounds are good and clean and the batt is good.
remove these two screwshttp://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq140/h4untdca3/magooandhondastarter009.jpgand these two boltshttp://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq140/h4untdca3/magooandhondastarter010.jpgand remove the drive end housing.
lift the brush gear and field housing so the brushes are free of the commutatorhttp://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq140/h4untdca3/magooandhondastarter013.jpgand check the free length of the brushes which should be bout 1/4 inch.http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq140/h4untdca3/magooandhondastarter011.jpg and check the condition of the commutator, making sure there are no pitting marks or scorching or lifted bars,see 2 pics above for a nice looking comm.
if the brushes are almost flush with the brush guides or there are pitting or scorch marks on the comm, replace the brushes and have the comm skimmed and under cut.
slow cranking , most of the time is caused by stuffed brushes if the batt is fine. clicking is also another thing that is usually caused by worn brushes.
if the brushes and comm is fine then i'd look elsewhere.
if you have a lifted bar on the comm, that can cause the fast initial crank then slow crank. a lifted bar means new armature time

[ottomatic]

I take it it still wont start at all? Try pulling a spark plug and checking its condition. Not really sure what to expect, but worth a try.
plugs are in good shape.



If you think it's compression, then pull all the plugs. That will prevent all compression. If the problem persists, then you don't have a compression problem.

I'm a little concerned about the burning smell. What have you been doing on the car lately? Wiring new stereos? Digging around in the wire looms under the dash? Running an arc welder off your alternator? What do you think burned and why? Do the lights go dim when you crank? Do you here arcing or buzzing when you crank? I'd be curious to know what the voltage on the battery looks like while you're cranking. It sounds like the current that would normally be going to your starter has found a new path to ground through whatever wires burned together.

i dont think its a compression thing. would have noticed that alot earlier.
one day it ran, the next day it wouldnt start.

havent done anything to the car, bone stock.
except for the radio, which I installed 5 years ago.......

Running an arc welder off your alternator? ...thats a good one. :)
no nothing like that.


It sounds like the current that would normally be going to your starter has found a new path to ground through whatever wires burned together.
I am starting to lean to this conclusion, after rethinking everything.
although there is no weird arcing or buzzing.
guess i will have to go through all of the wiring to find the inital cause of the burning smell if it is not the starter.




i still think that you ma have a dud starter, that is if the grounds are good and clean and the batt is good.
remove these two screws

thanks for the pics, will check this out today.



again guys,
thanks for all of your input and suggestions.
I will go through these and get back in a day or so
and let you know whats up.

if you can think of anything else,
let me know!