Sick of the power windows' epic struggle

[Accordtheory]

Well, I've put up with the slow ass, seems like it's barely going to make it but you know it will action of the power windows in my hatch for the last 9 years or so, but yesterday, they did something even more annoying. I was trying to roll the windows down as my friend was getting into the car, and they both just stopped moving. About 10 minutes later my driver's window started working again, but the pass side still doesn't work. I don't even hear a click from a relay anywhere. As far as I can tell, every fuse is still good.

So, I figure if I'm going to get into this shit, and pull the door panels off, I might as well put in window motors that actually work, like a new car.

Anyone put window motors from a newer car in their 3g? I could be wrong, but highly doubt new factory motors are going to be good enough.

Also, if anyone knows what would go wrong with the wiring/relay/fuse/whatever to stop the pass side window from working, let me know!

This car is starting to get damn quirky. It sat all winter, I put the battery in the other day, fired right up. Next day wouldn't start at all. No clue. Flooded the shit out of my b series just by turning the key on and off, without cranking the motor. (?!?) The plugs were all firing, but they were all soaked with fuel. Cranked it with the plugs out, put them back in, started. Wtf. Then the windows start acting up.

[Hauntd ca3]

if you arnt getting a click from a relay for the power windows i'd be looking towards the switches. pull the plug off the motor and see if you are getting power that far both up and down. if you have it that far, try giving the motor power at that plug to make it go up and down. if alll you get is sparks, replace the motor, its easy enough.
also, lube the shit out of the window runners with silicon spray or similar.
windows that go up and down slowly due to sticky runners over load the motor and chew the brushes up.

[nswst8]

Power window relays are under the passenger seat.

[lostforawhile]

Well, I've put up with the slow ass, seems like it's barely going to make it but you know it will action of the power windows in my hatch for the last 9 years or so, but yesterday, they did something even more annoying. I was trying to roll the windows down as my friend was getting into the car, and they both just stopped moving. About 10 minutes later my driver's window started working again, but the pass side still doesn't work. I don't even hear a click from a relay anywhere. As far as I can tell, every fuse is still good.

So, I figure if I'm going to get into this shit, and pull the door panels off, I might as well put in window motors that actually work, like a new car.

Anyone put window motors from a newer car in their 3g? I could be wrong, but highly doubt new factory motors are going to be good enough.

Also, if anyone knows what would go wrong with the wiring/relay/fuse/whatever to stop the pass side window from working, let me know!

This car is starting to get damn quirky. It sat all winter, I put the battery in the other day, fired right up. Next day wouldn't start at all. No clue. Flooded the shit out of my b series just by turning the key on and off, without cranking the motor. (?!?) The plugs were all firing, but they were all soaked with fuel. Cranked it with the plugs out, put them back in, started. Wtf. Then the windows start acting up.
sounds like a pressure regulator as far as the flooding, FI right? if it's sat maby the regialtor diaphram finally failed. as far as the window motor it has to be this one, I think i have a set, i'll have to look. and the relays are actually in a box in the drivers door.

[nswst8]

I am probably wrong but I thought there was a box for the windows under the passenger seat.

[charliekuney]

I am probably wrong but I thought there was a box for the windows under the passenger seat.

I thought that was for something else? The fuses are under the dash and the relays are under the hood.

[lostforawhile]

I thought that was for something else? The fuses are under the dash and the relays are under the hood.some of them are but the control relays are in the door, it's a plastic box mounted into one of the holes in the door. the ones in the door control the main window power relays under the hood

[Accordtheory]

I don't know wtf is going on, the driver's window works, but I don't hear anything from a relay for the passenger door with either the switch on the passenger door, or the switch on the driver's door, for that passenger door window. I Hate taking the door panels off, last time I looked, those stupid little clips are like $6 a piece, and always break. Then the door panel falls off every time you close the door. Stupid honda, the panels should be held on with screws, not 1 time usable clips. Suppose I could go out and work on this right now, but I really don't want to until I have a halfway decent idea. I don't really have a theory on it yet, but it doesn't make sense that both switches would fail simultaneously, or that the motor would fail without pulling a load, or how both windows failed, but then the driver's one started working again. It makes about as much sense as the motor starting with just a bump of key after sitting all winter, but then absolutely refusing to start the next day. Cocksucker!

[AccordB20A]

dry solder joints in that box IMO the 1 in the door, dont think passenger doors use a relay, could be corrosion in the plug that goes from the body to the door also i had that problem

[Accordtheory]

Thanks for all the comments, guys.

bump for anyone putting better window motors in their 3g...

[Accordtheory]

sounds like a pressure regulator as far as the flooding, FI right? if it's sat maby the regialtor diaphram finally failed. as far as the window motor it has to be this one, I think i have a set, i'll have to look. and the relays are actually in a box in the drivers door.

I took the fpr off, I thought that maybe the diaphragm failed, sending fuel into the intake via the vacuum hose, but it didn't. Fpr looks fine as far as I can tell, although I do need to replace it for another reason..the ghetto ass endyn mod drops the press back down to stock with the walbro, but decreases the effective capacity of the fuel pump. It's just a temporary measure, I need the right 94+ teg fpr..

[A18A]

my passenger window was the same, i had another 3g door that had a mint motor in it, went up & down real fast with no hesitation, just like it should, so I swapped that motor into my car, and it helped a little bit, but it was still slow for some reason. i can only assume it's also the seal thing that the window sits in that slows it down as well.

[Dr_Snooz]

Well, I've put up with the slow ass, seems like it's barely going to make it but you know it will action of the power windows in my hatch for the last 9 years or so, but yesterday, they did something even more annoying. I was trying to roll the windows down as my friend was getting into the car, and they both just stopped moving. About 10 minutes later my driver's window started working again, but the pass side still doesn't work. I don't even hear a click from a relay anywhere. As far as I can tell, every fuse is still good.

So, I figure if I'm going to get into this shit, and pull the door panels off, I might as well put in window motors that actually work, like a new car.

Anyone put window motors from a newer car in their 3g? I could be wrong, but highly doubt new factory motors are going to be good enough.

Also, if anyone knows what would go wrong with the wiring/relay/fuse/whatever to stop the pass side window from working, let me know!

This car is starting to get damn quirky. It sat all winter, I put the battery in the other day, fired right up. Next day wouldn't start at all. No clue. Flooded the shit out of my b series just by turning the key on and off, without cranking the motor. (?!?) The plugs were all firing, but they were all soaked with fuel. Cranked it with the plugs out, put them back in, started. Wtf. Then the windows start acting up.

Please pull the windows apart and lube the window regulator. Oil every pivot point and grease the gears and all sliding surfaces. Finish up with a silicone dry lube on the window tracks. That should do wonders.

[lostforawhile]

Please pull the windows apart and lube the window regulator. Oil every pivot point and grease the gears and all sliding surfaces. Finish up with a silicone dry lube on the window tracks. That should do wonders.

he's right, all those years of dirt and crud the car has gone through,it infiltrates the doors and gets into the mechanisms of the window regulator and really gums it up.

[Accordtheory]

I still want to know what other window motors fit in this door, or if the newer oem replacement ones are better, or what.

Well, after monkeying around with my car for a little bit out in the nice spring sunshine, all that was wrong electrically with my window was the stupid "main" switch, the one that connects the grounds for the passenger door/doors. So I just took the ground wire, cut it, and soldered it directly to the driver's switch, that's how it should be in a 2dr anyway. Wtf is the point of turning off the passenger switch, when by doing that, you're also turning off your own control of that window? It's stupid. It should just turn off the passenger's control of that window, but it doesn't.

I then greased some of the shit in the window mechanism, could hardly tell any difference. Like I said in my first post of the thread, I've owned this car for 9 years, got it when I was 19, I'm 28 now. Windows are exactly the same as when I bought it. That's why I didn't think the grease situation would have a huge effect, because if it did, they would have been getting worse and worse, but haven't.

I unplugged my electric seatbelt things a while ago, because they drain my battery in just a few hours, and I don't like driving around with the fuse removed, because then I don't have brake lights. I absolutely loathe the entire front seatbelt system in my hatch, everything from the electric pretensioner latching things to how the belts get slammed in the doors to how you're not supposed to unlatch the belts, which is insane, to the stupid reminder thing on the headliner. Most of the electrical part of the system has been removed. It is a horrible, horrible design, and not safe at all. I think it was even recalled. Anyway, when I had the door panel off today, I jerked on the seatbelt to see how the mechanism works. The top half of the belt latches fine, but no matter how hard I hit the belt, I could not get the lap belt side to lock. In other words, in a collision, the shoulder belt would hold you, but the lap belt wouldn't. Also, the passenger release is fucked up, it doesn't always let the belt come out when you press on it. Again, totally unsafe garbage. Imagine being trapped by the seatbelt underwater or if the car was on fire.

I can't wait to get a full cage in this car and harnesses. Fuck the entire factory front seatbelt system. I'll put some pictures up whenever I do this..

[lostforawhile]

I still want to know what other window motors fit in this door, or if the newer oem replacement ones are better, or what.

Well, after monkeying around with my car for a little bit out in the nice spring sunshine, all that was wrong electrically with my window was the stupid "main" switch, the one that connects the grounds for the passenger door/doors. So I just took the ground wire, cut it, and soldered it directly to the driver's switch, that's how it should be in a 2dr anyway. Wtf is the point of turning off the passenger switch, when by doing that, you're also turning off your own control of that window? It's stupid. It should just turn off the passenger's control of that window, but it doesn't.

I then greased some of the shit in the window mechanism, could hardly tell any difference. Like I said in my first post of the thread, I've owned this car for 9 years, got it when I was 19, I'm 28 now. Windows are exactly the same as when I bought it. That's why I didn't think the grease situation would have a huge effect, because if it did, they would have been getting worse and worse, but haven't.

I unplugged my electric seatbelt things a while ago, because they drain my battery in just a few hours, and I don't like driving around with the fuse removed, because then I don't have brake lights. I absolutely loathe the entire front seatbelt system in my hatch, everything from the electric pretensioner latching things to how the belts get slammed in the doors to how you're not supposed to unlatch the belts, which is insane, to the stupid reminder thing on the headliner. Most of the electrical part of the system has been removed. It is a horrible, horrible design, and not safe at all. I think it was even recalled. Anyway, when I had the door panel off today, I jerked on the seatbelt to see how the mechanism works. The top half of the belt latches fine, but no matter how hard I hit the belt, I could not get the lap belt side to lock. In other words, in a collision, the shoulder belt would hold you, but the lap belt wouldn't. Also, the passenger release is fucked up, it doesn't always let the belt come out when you press on it. Again, totally unsafe garbage. Imagine being trapped by the seatbelt underwater or if the car was on fire.

I can't wait to get a full cage in this car and harnesses. Fuck the entire factory front seatbelt system. I'll put some pictures up whenever I do this..if it helps all the window regulators are failing in my 98 civic, they went to a stupid cable and pulley system which uses a steel cable and a PLASTIC pulley, you figure that one out, try a hundred bucks apiece for replacements from doorman,you might try them, they often redesign items like window regulators to solve OEM problems. https://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/pagepro_disp.w?clt=hwrap1&pagepro=Dorman%20Products

as far as the pretensioners why don't you take off the door panel and disconnect them at the pretensioner? I know that system sucks . I'm not sure but can't the earlier hatch belts be swapped in? i know the belt will plug into the buckle you have now. I'm not sure if the belt threaded holes are there like the 86-87. Mine has the conventional belts. optionally you can buy an aftermarket lap and shoulder belt system,like they install in muscle cars and hot rods, and install it. as far as the recall, it's for the buckles going bad. if your belt system is malfunctioning it has a lifetime warranty. thats for any part of it. all Honda cars have a lifetime belt warranty.

[Accordtheory]

as far as the pretensioners why don't you take off the door panel and disconnect them at the pretensioner?


if your belt system is malfunctioning it has a lifetime warranty. thats for any part of it. all Honda cars have a lifetime belt warranty.

That's what I did, unplugged the connectors at the pretensioners, after taking most of the other associated crap out.

I'm sure the techs at a honda dealer would love to waste an entire day fucking around with my car's belt system..they'd probably be able to pull 3 engines in the time it'd take to fix that garbage properly..

Swapping the belts is a good idea. My car is an 87, I don't know if it has the holes for the 86 style belts. I might get a new release thing from the dealer though.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.

[2oodoor]

Having just got a hatch and started driving it this week, I can empathize your issues Accordtheory..
I have to break the habit of opening the door before unlatching, that just pulls the belt out too far making it go floppy.

Also Im not liking having to shut the car off when somebody gets out, to "reboot" the warning system to shut off all the buzzers n lights.

windows seem faster than the sedan, but still act like they are not going to move sometimes..

Almost every car has those cable regualtors now and all of them poop out.. LOL Lost I supposed brass pulleys would have worked better .. :eek:

[Dr_Snooz]

All those blasted lights and buzzers and me had a Come To Jesus meeting shortly after I got the car. All is peace and quiet now. The belts were Honda's first attempt to meet the US' increasingly stringent passive (ie: you don't have to do anything to make it work) safety requirements. The hope was that you would leave the belt latched all the time and pretend it was automatic. They reprised the failure with the notorious motorized belts of 1990. Now everybody uses air bags.

[cygnus x-1]

All those blasted lights and buzzers and me had a Come To Jesus meeting shortly after I got the car. All is peace and quiet now.


Jesus = giant hammer

:lol:


C|

[2oodoor]

All those blasted lights and buzzers and me had a Come To Jesus meeting shortly after I got the car. .
:devil: yeah OMG what a racket and light show on this ting :devil:

[Accordtheory]

Cygnus x-1, here's something else that shares your screen name. This would probably also help with the frustration of these bullshit seatbelts.
http://i663.photobucket.com/albums/uu353/john14crystal18/reefer%20madness/IMG_0943-1.jpg

[2oodoor]

smells skunky

[ecogabriel]

My passenger side window would work better with dry weather although it is still slow; when it has rained it rolls up and down so slow that a snail may be faster. Driver side window would open 2 inches and then stop when I got the car; pulled another regulator-motor from another 3G and probably that together with greasing all the f...joints and re-adjusting everything made it work well; now it operates fast. I'll disassemble the pass. door and repeat the f... stuff I did with the other door.

Yeah, I know it is frustrating dealing with those things... sometimes I love the crank windows in my Civic DX -one less electrical thing to give problems

[2ndGenGuy]

I lubed and cleaned the fuck out of all my windows, and it didn't do a damn thing. It was so frustrating taking off 4 door panels and going to all that trouble. I think Hazwan put power window motors from some other car in his non-power 1gee. Might see how he did it and be able to adapt something similarly. I am pretty sure his windows work well, he's pretty anal about that kinda thing.

[Accordtheory]

Why did you do all 4 then? Haha, I did my driver's window, and after almost no improvement was the result, I said F doing anything to my passenger door until I get new motors..

[Accordtheory]

smells skunky
The cygnus x1 does? I've never smoked that shit..

[Dr_Snooz]

I lubed and cleaned the fuck out of all my windows, and it didn't do a damn thing. It was so frustrating taking off 4 door panels and going to all that trouble. I think Hazwan put power window motors from some other car in his non-power 1gee. Might see how he did it and be able to adapt something similarly. I am pretty sure his windows work well, he's pretty anal about that kinda thing.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, you shot the tracks with silicone dry lube all the way up and down?

[Oldblueaccord]

My drivers side quit with a nasty noise like the gear is stripped out. I went to the pull a part to get one and practice taking it out. All the ones I looked at the metal around the bolts are cracked.

I guess what I am asking is what goes bad since the gear looks metal? also anyone buy one of those remanned ones and are they worth a shit?


wp

[lostforawhile]

My drivers side quit with a nasty noise like the gear is stripped out. I went to the pull a part to get one and practice taking it out. All the ones I looked at the metal around the bolts are cracked.

I guess what I am asking is what goes bad since the gear looks metal? also anyone buy one of those remanned ones and are they worth a shit?


wp

do you know if the hatch power regulator will work? i have a couple of them around if you need one