Lightweight Batteries...

[Bglad420]

Well in the process of throwing the 3G together I'm looking into batteries. Since I'm going to be tracking this car, as well as occasional DD it I need something that will hold somewhat of a charge. (Or I can rig up a trickle charger and just plug my car in at night) I was looking at Odyssey, and braille then found out Braille's are re-badged Deka's for 3x as much. I've decided to go with the Deka ETX14. Just wondering if anyone else runs a motorcycle battery and your thoughts. I need to say that I know it will work before someone chimes in and say's that it wont. But below are listed some specs and what not of other batteries for comparison if anyone else has considered this.


Please note the The Deka brand are the exact same battery as the Braille, just MUCH CHEAPER. Just different labeling. some guy working for the "mother" company confirmed it....



As far as I know - All the CCA for the manufacturers is done at 0F, and the CA is at 32F, all this info is off the manufacturer website.
According to Autozone website the 240sx needs 360 CA.
So if you want 100% factory reliability even at 0F you want to be shopping around for something that will have at least 360CCA.
For those of you where the weather gets in the negative digits (F) you will want something that has a CCA > 360 at 0F
The battery I had in (Advance Auto Parts stock replacement stuff) weights 37lb..
READ THIS:
In BLUE are the brands whose CCA Ratings seems either off or make it hard to find their testing methods.
Deka Batteries are more than likely to be Deka ETX re-badged -- Their advertised CCA IS PROBABLY NOT PERFORMED AT 0F.
By Brand:
Braille**:
Braille B3121 ----------CCA: 550 ---- weight: 21lb ---------------- CA: 742
Braille B2015 ----------CCA: 425 ---- weight: 15lb ---------------- CA: 574
Braille B14115 ---------CCA: 360 ---- weight: 11lb,8oz ------------ CA: 486
Braille B106 -----------CCA: 210 ---- weight: 6lb,6oz ------------- CA: 283
Westco:
Westco Miata ---------CCA: 475 ---- weight: 25lb
Deka:
Deka ETX30 -----------CCA: 370 ---- weight: 21.7lb
Deka ETX20 -----------CCA: 270 ---- weight: 15.5lb
Deka ETX18 -----------CCA: 300 ---- weight: 18lb
Deka ETX16 -----------CCA: 275 ---- weight: 17lb
Deka ETX14 -----------CCA: 200 ---- weight: 12lb
Deka ETX12 -----------CCA: 180 ---- weight: 9.4lb
Deka ETX9 -----------CCA: 120 ---- weight: 6.3lb
Odyssey:
Odyssey PC680 --------CCA: 220 --- weight: 15lb / 16lb For MJT*
Odyssey PC925/MJT ---CCA: 380 --- weight: 24lb / 26lb For MJT*
Optima:
Optima 34&34R --------CCA 800 -----weight: 37.9lb --------------- CA: 1000
Optima 37/78 ----------CCA 800 ---- weight: 38.8lb --------------- CA: 1000
Optima 75/25 ----------CCA 720 ---- weight: 33.1lb --------------- CA: 910
Optima 25&35 ---------CCA 720 ----- weight: 31.7lb --------------- CA: 910
Duralast:
Duralast 8AMU1R ------CCA: 330 ---- weight: 25lb
Marathon:
Marathon MAR-8AMU1R-CCA: 320 ---- weight: 25lb

By CCA:
Optima 34&34R --------CCA 800 -----weight: 37.9lb -------------- CA: 1000
Optima 37/78 ----------CCA 800 ---- weight: 38.8lb -------------- CA: 1000
Optima 75/25 ----------CCA 720 ---- weight: 33.1lb -------------- CA: 910
Optima 25&35 ---------CCA 720 ----- weight: 31.7lb -------------- CA: 910
Braille B3121 ----------CCA: 550 ---- weight: 21lb ---------------- CA: 742
Westco Miata ---------CCA: 475 ---- weight: 25lb
Braille B2015 ----------CCA: 425 ---- weight: 15lb ---------------- CA: 574
Odyssey PC925/MJT ---CCA: 380 ---- weight: 24lb / 26lb For MJT*
Deka ETX30 -----------CCA: 370 ---- weight: 21.7lb
Braille B14115 ---------CCA: 360 ---- weight: 11lb,8oz ------------ CA: 486
Duralast 8AMU1R ------CCA: 330 ---- weight: 25lb
Marathon MAR-8AMU1R-CCA: 320 ---- weight: 25lb
Deka ETX18 -----------CCA: 300 ---- weight: 18lb
Deka ETX16 -----------CCA: 275 ---- weight: 17lb
Deka ETX20 -----------CCA: 270 ---- weight: 15.5lb
Odyssey PC680 --------CCA: 220 ---- weight: 15lb / 16lb For MJT*
Braille B106 -----------CCA: 210 ---- weight: 6lb,6oz ------------- CA: 283
Deka ETX14 -----------CCA: 200 ---- weight: 12lb
Deka ETX12 -----------CCA: 180 ---- weight: 9.4lb
Deka ETX9 -----------CCA: 120 ---- weight: 6.3lb

By Weight:
Optima 37/78 ----------CCA 800 ---- weight: 38.8lb --------------- CA: 1000
Optima 34&34R --------CCA 800 -----weight: 37.9lb --------------- CA: 1000
Optima 75/25 ----------CCA 720 ---- weight: 33.1lb --------------- CA: 910
Optima 25&35 ---------CCA 720 ----- weight: 31.7lb --------------- CA: 910
Westco Miata ---------CCA: 475 ---- weight: 25lb
Duralast 8AMU1R ------CCA: 330 ---- weight: 25lb
Marathon MAR-8AMU1R-CCA: 320 ---- weight: 25lb
Odyssey PC925/MJT ---CCA: 380 --- weight: 24lb / 26lb For MJT*
Deka ETX30 -----------CCA: 370 ---- weight: 21.7lb
Braille B3121 ----------CCA: 550 ---- weight: 21lb ---------------- CA: 742
Braille B14115 ---------CCA: 360 ---- weight: 11lb,8oz ------------ CA: 486
Deka ETX18 -----------CCA: 300 ---- weight: 18lb
Deka ETX16 -----------CCA: 275 ---- weight: 17lb
Deka ETX20 -----------CCA: 270 ---- weight: 15.5lb
Odyssey PC680 --------CCA: 220 --- weight: 15lb / 16lb For MJT*
Braille B2015 ----------CCA: 425 ---- weight: 15lb ---------------- CA: 574
Deka ETX14 -----------CCA: 200 ---- weight: 12lb
Deka ETX12 -----------CCA: 180 ---- weight: 9.4lb
Braille B106 -----------CCA: 210 ---- weight: 6lb,6oz ------------- CA: 283
Deka ETX9 -----------CCA: 120 ---- weight: 6.3lb

More info:
Braille:
Probably Deka re-badged
**no info on website on what Temp the CCA and CA test are done at...
DEKA:
Come with M6 Thread on terminals - you will need adapter to SAE automotive Terminals.
Rebadged as BigCrank, Braille and other brands // BigCrank has cheap price .
(Proved and discussed on the vwvortex there is a whole thread about it.)
Odyssey:
*MJT: Metal Jacket + Terminals.
Also the Odysseys have battery mounting brackets available.
Miata Battery:
Duralast rates them at 330CCA, Marathon at 320CCA, Westco at 475CCA,
make what you want of this info but personally I'm not getting a Westco Battery
Made by EastPenn Mfg.
Sold under:
Marathon MAR-8AMU1R (1Year Warranty)
Westco 12V31M (4 Year Warranty)
Duralast 8AMU1R (8Year Warranty - apparently WAS available at autozone)

[lostforawhile]

don't go with the optima lots of complaints since manufacturing was moved to mexico. everyone I know including myself says odyssey, thats what i'll be running too. as far as cranking amps most manufacturers test CCA at 32 F odyssey tests at 0 F

[stat1K]

no complaints with my optima. made it through several days in the teens... my odyssey however would not start my car with the temperature below 45. and i had the 625 which is slightly bigger than the pc680.

[Sabz5150]

If shedding weight from the front of the car is your goal, the best method is to toss the battery in the back. Yes, a tad of work is required (as is a bit of copper... expensive these days) but not only do you shift the weight in a positive manner, you clear up a decent amount of engine bay space. That space, chance would have it, is almost perfect for the install of an MSD (or whatever brand) ignition box.

As per batteries themselves, my choice is Optima. Now, I haven't bought an Opti in years (had one in my first 3g before the batt was stolen), but my experiences with them are all good. Hearing that they outsourced their manufacturing does make me a bit more iffy concerning them now, but YMMV.
Just my twopence.

[lostforawhile]

no complaints with my optima. made it through several days in the teens... my odyssey however would not start my car with the temperature below 45. and i had the 625 which is slightly bigger than the pc680.

thats odd thy are usually pretty good about starting in cold weather.

[Bglad420]

I already have extended cables from my hatch (I had the bat in the rear) I'm not going with an optima due to the fact that it weighs so much. And I'm not sure I want to have it on the cabin again. But I have the cables if I do decide to go that route. And I'm sorry to burst your bubble Lost, but from what I've read is that Odyssey's can be a bear in the winters if they get too cold.

[lostforawhile]

I already have extended cables from my hatch (I had the bat in the rear) I'm not going with an optima due to the fact that it weighs so much. And I'm not sure I want to have it on the cabin again. But I have the cables if I do decide to go that route. And I'm sorry to burst your bubble Lost, but from what I've read is that Odyssey's can be a bear in the winters if they get too cold.

I did a ton of research on them and talked to a lot of people who own them, and thats the first i've heard of winter problems, are you sure yours was brought back to 100 percent capacity? if you run on down pretty good, a regular charger won't bring it back up 100 percent, it will charge but will only come up to maby 80 percent with a regular charger, the charging system in the car will charge it, but it won't bring it back from a bad discharge. you need a voltage controlled charger from their approved list to make sure it comes up 100 percent. if you use a regular non voltage controlled charger you can destroy the battery or severely damage it. You should have contacted odyssey about your issue, that battery you have is more then capable of starting your car even at 0 degrees. what gauge cable are you running from the battery to starter? we run into this at work a lot, the concord aircraft batteries need the same type of charger and they can be damaged pretty bad with walmart chargers

[Dr_Snooz]

I'm not sure what engine you have, but the a20 weighs a ton. If you have an MT, then you'll find the car lists to the engine side already. Removing the battery will only worsen that.

[AccordEpicenter]

In my case thats ok because the the pass side tire wants to light first if I get into a 1 legged burnout situation... Anyway, Im planning on ordering a Deka ETX 14 soon anyway because I need somthing that will fit in a small area up front. Turbos and piping take up a lot of room haha

[lostforawhile]

In my case thats ok because the the pass side tire wants to light first if I get into a 1 legged burnout situation... Anyway, Im planning on ordering a Deka ETX 14 soon anyway because I need somthing that will fit in a small area up front. Turbos and piping take up a lot of room haha

so do forced air oil coolers, battery had to go

[stat1K]

weird that you say that because i've owned 3 of them, in 2 different cars and every one of them had a horrible time if the temps got below 45 degrees.

first time it happened to me was in arizona, go out and the car wouldn't start. i got out the volt meter and had full voltage. checked some fuses... come back in scratching my head, and my wife says maybe try pooring some hot water on the battery? i say hmm, maybe it is too cold, go out poor a cup of room temperature water on it, and bam starts right up.

got to be pretty standard after that. so when i moved here in july it was fine, but by november it started doing it every morning (this was a completely different battery and brand new and the 625 instead of the 680). so i sold it and bought an optima, it has not had a problem since...

[lostforawhile]

weird that you say that because i've owned 3 of them, in 2 different cars and every one of them had a horrible time if the temps got below 45 degrees.

first time it happened to me was in arizona, go out and the car wouldn't start. i got out the volt meter and had full voltage. checked some fuses... come back in scratching my head, and my wife says maybe try pooring some hot water on the battery? i say hmm, maybe it is too cold, go out poor a cup of room temperature water on it, and bam starts right up.

got to be pretty standard after that. so when i moved here in july it was fine, but by november it started doing it every morning (this was a completely different battery and brand new and the 625 instead of the 680). so i sold it and bought an optima, it has not had a problem since...

i'm going to run the 625, it doesn't get too cold here anyway, and when the car is done it won't be a daily driver, so it shouldn't matter much. strange you've had problems, I know people up north who run them in hot rods and they start right up even in winter. If it gets so cold th battery won't start, the SU's probably won't want to start eithier. what gauge wire do you run?

[stat1K]

well i'm sure they aren't storing their hotrods outside in the open, maybe that contributes to the problem. but i had problems in arizona even with the car in the garage, only a couple days as it only gets that cold in like mid january for a week, but here i don't have a garage.

i thought about getting a box for it and insulating it. i know that angus, lx-incredible, has the pc925 and it's a beast. his is mounted low and isn't in the way at all even for its size. just a thought.

[lostforawhile]

well i'm sure they aren't storing their hotrods outside in the open, maybe that contributes to the problem. but i had problems in arizona even with the car in the garage, only a couple days as it only gets that cold in like mid january for a week, but here i don't have a garage.

i thought about getting a box for it and insulating it. i know that angus, lx-incredible, has the pc925 and it's a beast. his is mounted low and isn't in the way at all even for its size. just a thought.

maby you have one that is too small? i have a small stereo in mine and the alarm, but no power windows,no computer,no ac etc. so mine should be fine, the pc625 actually meets the factory specs on the original battery. everyone forgets this car came with a tiny battery. nearly everyone has replaced it with an off the shelf bigger battery. when the car is running everything runs off of the alternator anyway. the alternator produces a higher voltage then the battery, which is what allows it to charge. a lot of people misunderstand how a car charging system works, the battery really does nothing but start the car, once it starts the alternator is the primary power source unless you exceed the amperage capability of what it can produce.

[stat1K]

no power anything in my civic dx, no ac, no power steering, only the timing belt running the motor and the water pump and alternator. stereo rarely gets used, no drain on my current battery so who knows... starter works with the new battery and the 625 worked great in warm temperatures. so who knows, i'm probably going to buy another one when i get back to arizona in a few years since it was rarely a problem, just thought i'd mention it is all.

[Bglad420]

In my case thats ok because the the pass side tire wants to light first if I get into a 1 legged burnout situation... Anyway, Im planning on ordering a Deka ETX 14 soon anyway because I need somthing that will fit in a small area up front. Turbos and piping take up a lot of room haha

Your going to want to make sure that you blanket it. HEAT will kill these batteries FAST.


I'm not sure what engine you have, but the a20 weighs a ton. If you have an MT, then you'll find the car lists to the engine side already. Removing the battery will only worsen that.

Any weight that I can pull from the nose and move to give a better 50/50 weight distribution the better. Also It's a good I dea to move the battery to the opposing side as the engine to help balance that weight.


maby you have one that is too small? i have a small stereo in mine and the alarm, but no power windows,no computer,no ac etc. so mine should be fine, the pc625 actually meets the factory specs on the original battery. everyone forgets this car came with a tiny battery. nearly everyone has replaced it with an off the shelf bigger battery. when the car is running everything runs off of the alternator anyway. the alternator produces a higher voltage then the battery, which is what allows it to charge. a lot of people misunderstand how a car charging system works, the battery really does nothing but start the car, once it starts the alternator is the primary power source unless you exceed the amperage capability of what it can produce.


These cars will start on 200 CCA, and a lot of people run these in New WRX/STi's EVO's and what not and they have a lot more electronics and powered equipment too. But through peoples personal experiences Ody's dont like cold.

[AccordEpicenter]

hmm how much heat? Im planning on putting it about a foot away from the engine...

[Bglad420]

hmm how much heat? Im planning on putting it about a foot away from the engine...

From what I've read (All being mainly on Subies) That They do OK, but tire quickly because of the temp in the engine bay lasting 1-2 years. A few guys have wrapped them and had better luck, but most move them to the cabin away from the heat and get 4-5 years out of them. But a turbo A 3G has a lot more open room than they do, and I'm sure not as hot. I'm considering leaving mine up front for now or maybe moving it behind the passenger rear interior panel.

[lostforawhile]

From what I've read (All being mainly on Subies) That They do OK, but tire quickly because of the temp in the engine bay lasting 1-2 years. A few guys have wrapped them and had better luck, but most move them to the cabin away from the heat and get 4-5 years out of them. But a turbo A 3G has a lot more open room than they do, and I'm sure not as hot. I'm considering leaving mine up front for now or maybe moving it behind the passenger rear interior panel.

you can get the battery with a plastic case or a shielded case to protect it from heat, you add something to the part number. they make the case with steel around it for high heat situations.

[labeledsk8r]

in ot watch results from this, i actully know someone that can get me 12volt hoverround batts for 15 bucks brand new, dudes father works and a plant makeing them, i know they have enough power to start a car and there small, closed top and weigh under 10 lbs im just worried about allways running everything straight from the alt after the crank. so im interested to see how this turns out

[lostforawhile]

in ot watch results from this, i actully know someone that can get me 12volt hoverround batts for 15 bucks brand new, dudes father works and a plant makeing them, i know they have enough power to start a car and there small, closed top and weigh under 10 lbs im just worried about allways running everything straight from the alt after the crank. so im interested to see how this turns out

i might be interested in a couple of those for the electric motorcycle, ten pounds is great and they are classed as wheelchair batteries. any idea of the amp hours of them? as far as running stuff straight from the alternator, thats the way nearly every car electrical system is designed to work. the alternator is the primary power source. once the battery is fully charge it's just static unless you exceed the amperage output of it.

[Accordtheory]

come back in scratching my head, and my wife says maybe try pooring some hot water on the battery? i say hmm, maybe it is too cold, go out poor a cup of room temperature water on it, and bam starts right up.


What the Fuck, can I hire your wife to work on my car??


I just have a civic battery in my 3g. Stock battery tray, edge cut to clear the intake tube, custom top clamp. I used to have the normal size battery in the back, but when you add up the long, thick cable, the box, etc, + the big battery, it's quite a bit more weight than what I have now, and with the car being a traction limited fwd, I'd rather have the weight up front.

[guaynabo89]

If your going to get one of these small batteries, battery tneder is your friend. I bought a battery tender junior and its made my life so much easier. I have an overprice Braille battery. the 11 lb one I believe.

All these small batteries will die in a couple of days of sitting, so plan ahead. my Braille died and I sent it in under warranty, but they were trying to say my cars charging system was at fault. I said no and please exchange under warranty.

[Bglad420]

I've already thought of that. I was going to hard wire one in with mine.

[stat1K]

What the Fuck, can I hire your wife to work on my car??


I just have a civic battery in my 3g. Stock battery tray, edge cut to clear the intake tube, custom top clamp. I used to have the normal size battery in the back, but when you add up the long, thick cable, the box, etc, + the big battery, it's quite a bit more weight than what I have now, and with the car being a traction limited fwd, I'd rather have the weight up front.

she's definitely smarter than me that's for sure. she doesn't know anything mechanical it's so funny, i try to get her to think through things to understand how they work and how to fix them and i lose her at like the 3rd step of anything lol.

but i always talk problems out with her because she has some random insight that might work but i would never think of on account of knowing the normal ways to do things.

i'm currently using an optima red in the trunk with 0ga wires from a set of jumpers and i'll say it does in fact add a lot of weight to the car, but i'm not concerned about that since i have quick disconnects if i ever want to put a smaller one in i can in about 2 minutes total. the wire at least is spread out weight vs. all in one place.

[Accordtheory]

If your going to get one of these small batteries, battery tneder is your friend. I bought a battery tender junior and its made my life so much easier. I have an overprice Braille battery. the 11 lb one I believe.

All these small batteries will die in a couple of days of sitting, so plan ahead. my Braille died and I sent it in under warranty, but they were trying to say my cars charging system was at fault. I said no and please exchange under warranty.

I just have to say, this is absolutely ridiculous. A battery that you have to plug in or it dies in a few days?? What is the point of that? It's such a small reduction in weight that it won't even show up, street racing, autocross, drag racing, whatever, at a huge expense of convenience and practicality. Trying to save a few pounds only to have to push start your car, that sounds like fun. And yeah, I've push started my car, by myself, probably about 20 times, thanks to my old seatbelt system killing my battery, so I know how lame that is firsthand.

[guaynabo89]

it is lame.

alarms don't help either.

ask anyone who has the small braille, if they can leave their car sit for a week and the car won't start, they'll say yes.



I personally bought it for the space it saved me, not the weight savings. :)

[lostforawhile]

I don't know whats going on with these batteries to make them go dead so quick, I know a lot of people with odysseys and they don't have problems like this, yes the alarm draws a small amount of current, but it shouldn't be killing them that fast.

[AccordEpicenter]

it is lame.

alarms don't help either.

ask anyone who has the small braille, if they can leave their car sit for a week and the car won't start, they'll say yes.



I personally bought it for the space it saved me, not the weight savings. :)

Me too, thats the only reason for this. I dont want to relocate the battery to the trunk, then the track officials want me to have a battery box, about a mile of welding cable and an on off switch. But, the on off switch should kill the car, not just turn off the battery, so youd have to put the alternator on a solenoid too. Forget it, ill just get the small battery haha

[lostforawhile]

here's a good FAQ on the odyssey and it explains why people think they have problems when they eally don't http://www.odysseybatteries.com/faq.htm#a

[Bglad420]

Well I installed the Deka EXT14 in the Coupe, and so far so good, I haven't driven it yet (Still waiting on my SS brake lines before it's back on the ground) But I can say that It fires right up every time, no issues yet, and It's sat for a couple days too. I'll update more as time goes on.

[AccordEpicenter]

keep us updated plz!

[Bglad420]

Well the cars been in my shop for about a week now with the battery sitting idle, and still fires right up no issues. I'll do another update in about a week once I've got some road time on it. But I highly doubt I'll have any issues.

[AccordEpicenter]

i ordered a battery tender jr to keep the battery charged

[Bglad420]

i ordered a battery tender jr to keep the battery charged

Yeah I have one too, but I'm not using it yet, I'm still feeling this thing out, but so far so good. Not a single issue.

[guaynabo89]

Bglad420, you got the Deka original part that's relabeled as the small Braille battery right?


my car has a slight drain because of the alarm. Since I haven't been driving it on a regular basis, the battery tender jr has been a lifesaver. Plus it comes with a lead you can hard wire into the car as well.

[Bglad420]

Yeah the braille's are just marked up re-badged Deka's.

[guaynabo89]

why didn't you tell me that like 3 yrs ago. :lol:

[AccordEpicenter]

Bglad420, you got the Deka original part that's relabeled as the small Braille battery right?


my car has a slight drain because of the alarm. Since I haven't been driving it on a regular basis, the battery tender jr has been a lifesaver. Plus it comes with a lead you can hard wire into the car as well.

thats what im going to do, hardwire it in. The car doesnt get driven everyday so i want to keep the battery maintained

[Bglad420]

Well took her to the auto-x today, no issues what's so ever yet. I'm really liking this battery.

[AccordEpicenter]

Update: The etx14 has been rather impressive soo far, I was cranking the engine over for a couple min in 15 sec spurts before we corrected the firing order and fixed a couple of wiring issues, then it fired right up. I drove the car out of the garage a few feet on the starter before it was running too. Also, when the car was running, at first, it wanted to die at every stoplight and stop sign so we had to restart every so often too and the battery took it like a champ. Honestly, it works better than my old junky diehard that I think may have been going bad, soo far soo good!

Edit: Ive left the battery tender connected to it when im not around, just to be on the safe side. Plus, it prolongs the life of the battery, because im not driving the car every day

[Bglad420]

A little update on mine. No issues whats so ever been able to leave it sit for about a week w/o a tender and fires right up no hesitation.