87 ACcord DX idle issues question

[a20soda]

Okay, been researching and I'm pretty sure i have clogged idle jets. Here is a quick summary from another forum user (with their permission) of the problem:

The throttle plate is held slightly open when cold, then is allowed to
close as the engine reaches full op temperature. This means the idle
jets don't control idle until the throttle is fully closed, which is
just about the time the car stalls.

When the OP holds the throttle open, he is shutting down the idle jet
and using other fuel delivery paths, which are not blocked.

If plugged jets are in fact the problem, some compressed air down the
idle speed screw hole should cure that fairly cheaply. Clean the gum and
sediment out of the float bowl as well.


Could anyone give me an in-depth explanation of how to access these idle jets? Ive read all over that they are the issue. Also, my dad and i thought it was the float, so we were going to buy a carburetor rebuild kit, but i would love to be able to fix this for free. Also, i noticed someone mentioned something called seafoam for cleaning their carburetor; could anyone tell me where I could find this, and is it effective?

[88cool]

I've used SEAFOAM (available nearly everywhere auto parts are sold even wally-world) in nearly every carb'd engine I've ever owned. The instructions on the back of the can are all you need. Try using it three times, with each dose a week apart. Of course liberal use of carb cleaner also helps. Your best bet if the seafoam doesn't work is to remove the carb from the car and soak it in a can of parts cleaner overnight (advance sells a can ready to go) then inspect as you clean. use soft brass or nylon brushes and pipe cleaners. A carb rebuild kit is a good idea, but if a can of seafoam and a little time gets it done why waste the money?

[joebeets]

The idle jets are probably not the problem. More likely you have an intake leak at the carb/manifold seal, resulting in a lean misfire. Check it with propane. It is being masked by fuel enrichment, from the choke valve, until the engine warms up.

[a20soda]

Its not an intake leak, and the vacuum hoses are all fine. After messing with it the other night it wasnt running lean anymore, just flooding. I assumed it was a bad float. Any ideas?

[88cool]

Its not an intake leak, and the vacuum hoses are all fine. After messing with it the other night it wasnt running lean anymore, just flooding. I assumed it was a bad float. Any ideas?

A few off the top of my head...

Was it hot or cold when it started flooding??
Do you get an SES light?
MAP Sensor OK? (I'm unsure of the test for your year)
Carb choke pull off OK?
If the car was hot you might try unplugging the O2 sensor and see what happens.

[a20soda]

it idles fine cold, choke is ok, map sensor ok.

will try unplugging O2 sensor, but im skeptical as to how this can help lol.
no SES or CEL light. brand new fuel pump and filter too. i can see into the carb and its letting a lot of fuel in while idling, like a steady stream. shouldnt this be a very light mist?

[88cool]

it idles fine cold, choke is ok, map sensor ok.

will try unplugging O2 sensor, but im skeptical as to how this can help lol.
no SES or CEL light. brand new fuel pump and filter too. i can see into the carb and its letting a lot of fuel in while idling, like a steady stream. shouldnt this be a very light mist?

If your O2 sensor is bad it can tell the CPU that the engine is running lean all the time, thus prompting the cpu to dump more gas. A lean condition can be worse than rich over time, so the fail safe is to go a little rich. The CPU ignores O2 sensor readings until the engine is warm (at least in most cars, hondas?) If you unplug it the CPU/engine will have to revert to its mechanical and other sensor settings to control idle speed. The O2 is the most heavily relied upon sensor that the CPU uses (followed closely by the three other sensors I mentioned in another thread;). It is just another piece of the puzzle. A friend of mine had this problem with a B16. The car spewed carbon out the tail pipe and refused to idle smooth. Repeated 8K rpm blasts would clear out the carbon for a bit, but it would eventually back up again. He had a lot of mods so when we found out it was a $90 O2 sesnor he was glad.

As far as visually estimating fuel delivery, there is almost never a light mist. The fuel may get "broken up" by incomming air and give the impression of a mist. Usually it is like a weak pee stream (for lack of a better descriptor) to a big super soaker unloading. Beware of any pooling of fuel or "rivers" running down the walls of the intake.
Ever look down the barrel of a big quad when the secondaries open up? It's like a small garden hose!

Do you get a heavy gas smell from the exhaust?

[a20soda]

yes it runs very rich, heavy gas smell, and smokes sometimes. will try unplugging the o2 sensor as well.

taking the carb off in a couple hours and am going to clean it all with seafoam. also gonna replace all the gaskets and check the float to make sure there arent cracks in it.

[88cool]

yes it runs very rich, heavy gas smell, and smokes sometimes. will try unplugging the o2 sensor as well.

taking the carb off in a couple hours and am going to clean it all with seafoam. also gonna replace all the gaskets and check the float to make sure there arent cracks in it.

Sounds like a good plan.
I've never used Seafoam as a stand alone cleaner, just an additive.

I was reminded of a technique at work today that may help you:

Obtain some sheet rubber 1/16" thick or so (any air tight flexible membrane will do)
Cut out a gasket to go inplace where the carb meets the intake mani.
Using liberal ammounts of duct tape or similam, attach a small, clean shop vac set on blow to the carb (this may take some doing).

Get a squirt bottle of soapy water.
Fire up the vac and start squirting everywhere.
Look for bubbles.
A guy I work with has a race car. He made a plate to seal off the top of his carb(s) and uses 30psi air. He claims that it saves him lots of time, and makes finding leaks a breeze. He uses sheet ABS plastic as a membrane.

Let me know if I can type out the Haynes section on "Air Intake System" It does a fair job of explaning all of the components and thier function.

[a20soda]

alright, just got done with the carb. its completely clean, brand new looking, no clogs. there are no vacuum leaks either. my father broke the vacuum advance off of the distributor when he was adjusting the timing so i have to order a new one. once that is in i will fire it up and see what happens.

i just thought of something, and i feel retarded for not realizing before. when i got the car, the wires going back to the fuel pump were dead and we couldnt figure it out. we ran a wire from a hot wire up front straight back to the pump to get it running. now, by bypassing the fuel pump relay, does this mean that it is just constantly dumping fuel in the carb? is this why it is flooding? (my god the more i type the more this makes sense, and the more i feel like im retarded)

[2oodoor]

no the circuit is dead until the coil is energized, it is a protection circuit feeding on the negative pole on the coil...
Reading your thread here is confusing me, I dont think there is a map sensor as in a Ford mcu or early c3 gm.
The black box has a variety of controls that accomplishes a map signal of sorts though.
You could have a small vacuum leak or pinched vac hose that is preventing the fast idle pull off or choke pull off from working. Also check that the secondary throttle control diaphragm isnt holding the secondary open slightley.. very common issue on these.
check that booster venturies are not loose in the top throat of the carb, that will let a bunch of gas drip all sloppy in there too.
You need to make sure you got 12 v , key on, at the solenoid in the rear of the carb and at the choke heater.

read the links in this thread too...http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72457

[joebeets]

does this mean that it is just constantly dumping fuel in the carb? is this why it is flooding?

The FP maintains constant pressure and the float valve regulates the amount allowed into the bowl.

Bypassing the relay is a bit dangerous, though. If you were in a crash your pump would not shut off as designed.

[a20soda]

totally cleaned out the carb and everything is working properly and its spotless.

[a20soda]

still having these idle issues though... float is good, all jets arent clogged, no vacuum leaks to my knowledge... :/ im stuck, any suggestions?

[A20A1]

it idles fine cold, choke is ok, map sensor ok.

will try unplugging O2 sensor, but im skeptical as to how this can help lol.
no SES or CEL light. brand new fuel pump and filter too. i can see into the carb and its letting a lot of fuel in while idling, like a steady stream. shouldnt this be a very light mist?

MAP? carbs don't have the MAP sensor.
:facepalm: sweet a facepalm smiley

[A20A1]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45880

Disconnect #6 vacuum line to the idle diaphragm, plug it to prevent vacuum leaking. Unscrew the adjustment screw on the idle diaphragm to prevent it from touching the throttle linkage.

Start the motor

Note how the car idles when cold and when hot... after the car is fully warm check the vacuum gauge reading against the charts in the thread below.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48569

If everything is okay, adjust the black knob at the back of the carb to set the idle between 800-1000 rpm, the engine must be hot when you do this..

If you don't have a vacuum gauge get one.

[a20soda]

k, will grab a vacuum gauge, how much are they? and where do you recommend i find one?

[joebeets]

Or get a vacuum pump, like a Mity Vac, which has a gauge. Go to Sears if necessary. Essential for these cars.

[a20soda]

okay, found a vacuum gauge and pump to use when im ready. just ran into a snag, and possibly what was the problem all along(?) When putting the carb back into the car i thought i had left the gasket on the car with a rag over it to keep debris out. when i went to put it in, i noticed there was no gasket. come to think of it i dont remember there ever beign a gasket. this cant be right can it? im pretty sure someone has worked on this carb before and could this be the problem? if it doesnt seal right at the bottom of the carb that could be my big vacuum leak right? Thanks again guys.

After we get past this little bump, im ready to check to make sure i have vacuum.

[A20A1]

There is a gasket... I'm pretty sure of it. Though there are also the rubber gaskets you don't see since they are tucked away in the groove, but I'm pretty sure there was a gasket between the EFE and Manifold.

[A20A1]

Here it is


FELPRO CARBURETOR MOUNTING GASKET

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/images/product_images/images/felpro/60671.jpg

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