The time has come

[AccordEpicenter]

My accord finally runs once more! I got the built motor running and started the break in process. We only have 10 miles on it but soo far its pretty positive. I had a couple of vids but they are meh and from a cellphone, and for some reason they dont seem to be compatable with windows media player etc... sorry guys. Driving this car again, man, its incredible how raw this thing is. Think about it: solid motor mounts (rattles the fillings out of your head) heavy race clutch, no ps, no ac, 8lb flywheel, BIG TURBO... just unrefined right now.

Anyway, heres the setup and component list

Built Race ported head
Golden eagle cam gear
Si industries valves/retainers/springs
Bullfrog cam
AEBS Typhoon B16 intake mani with ITR TB
2.5" Charge piping with 1G dsm bov
JRC 8" FMIC
Diamond Forged pistons
Eagle H beam rods
Toga Oil pump
ARP head studs
Stealthmodeperformance oil lines
8lb aasco flywheel
Clutchnet Dual diaphram 6 puck sprung race clutch
Solid motor mounts
3" Downpipe and 3" E cutout with the stock exhaust used in non bypass mode
255lph intank walbro fuel pump
Precision 880cc injectors
GM 3 bar map sensor
custom topmount turbo mani
Precision SC6152 with S trim compressor (think GT35R)
38mm tial external wastegate
innovate LC-1 wideband 02 sensor
Deka ETX14 battery
90-91 accord distributor (internal coil) with adaptor kit
92-95 Civic P06 ECU chipped
triple core civic radiator with slimfan
Mickey Thompson ET Street DOT Drag radials

Soo far the only issues are easy fixes:

no oil leaks but there is a small coolant leak near the head
the shifter linkage feels sloppy
the tune is only really a basemap, but safe afr soo far verified by the wideband, but it really needs to be tuned
the back brakes are noisy and might need attention
i need to make a permanent battery mount too

We used a P75 bin from my friends boosted integra, and even with the conversions used in crome, we still needed to add fuel almost everywhere, even though we did the conversions for the bigger injectors and bigger engine, and the engine still doesnt like to idle after you rev it up...

Ill see if i can get pics either tomorrow or sat

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/newmani1.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/newmani2.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/newmani3.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0404001828.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0414002129.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0414002129b.jpg



Bonus: The view from the top of some 95 foot poles i had to climb a couple mos ago at work
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0127001429b.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0127001429c.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0127001433a.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0127001452.jpg

VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2LcSVa1Xk

It sounds loud/rough because the E Cutout is open. It really isnt loud at idle and sounds much better in person

Sorry for the meh pics, i gotta get my digicam working again, and maybe wash the car haha!

[A20A1]

Did you try VLC media player?


Anyways can't wait to see the pics.

[Rendon LX-i]

Sweet man. What you aiming for hp? we need vids damnit lol.....Good to see it running

[AccordEpicenter]

thanks! i think the file type is a .flv or somthing...

[A20A1]

you can post FLV directly to youtube

[Tdurr]

Sweet man. What you aiming for hp? we need vids damnit lol.....Good to see it running

x2.



now i gotta get a full build started... and hit 300hp on the 16g hahaha

[89T]

get on it Tim!

Jason, how are you breakin it in?

congrats on gettin it running, slow ass. lol! get some dyno time in.

[Tdurr]

oh u best believe once i get a job ill start building it.

[89T]

I am waitin for both of you.

[88LXi68]

you need to bring you and your car to a meet sometime soon so we can all ask for rides!

[89T]

Yes, It live's.....

[CrzyTuning]

Nice, can't wait to see what it does.

One word of advice, beware of those Toga oil pumps. The gears break pretty easy, at least on the obd1/2 style pumps they do. I know these A series have a weird pump gear.

[AccordEpicenter]

Hmm ill have to check that out about the oil pump. My oil pressures are really good right now though... 65+ psi and even at idle 20+ Psi warm... I do have a shimmed relief valve though...

[89T]

got any updates?

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Awesome... Glad to see the car back up and running. Can't wait to see some proper vids, and what kind of power numbers and ET's you put down with the new setup.

[89T]

:hmph:
got any updates?

[AccordEpicenter]

Sorry guys, Ive been busy and havent been able to work on it. Right now im waiting for a crank pulley key, I lost my original one when the crank pulley came off (must not have been tight enough) a couple days ago. Plus I still need to fix my coolant leak. I am working on getting a dyno day together though...

[Tdurr]

I need a downpipe made....
pics are nice, vid blows monkey cawk.

[guaynabo89]

Nice

Glad to see you finally post up. :)


Is that clutch stretable? Like Im stuck in traffic and wont have my leg fall off or break my neck?


Coolant leak?

do you have poly shifter bushings? cause ive been thinking about it cause shifting feels a little sloppy for me as well.

[AccordEpicenter]

its streetable... werent you having problems with your clutchnet clutch? I have the dual diaphram 6 puck sprung, its not too bad really. No poly shifter bushings, mostly stock. I think the bushing on the actual shifter is messed up, im gonna have to see whats up with it. My back brakes are giving me issues too...

edit:coolant leak should be fixed now, the pipe for the heater that goes into the head wasnt tight enough. My brake master cyl was full of junk, i think that might be causing my low pedal. Also my rear wheel cyl might be going bad too...

[guaynabo89]

Yeah my clutchnet 6 puck sprung hub aint holding. I dont have a dual diaphram one though.

On a side note the car was up on a lift today and the shifter bushings are junk on my car. theres a whole lot of play there. That might be your problem too.

[Tdurr]

i need a lift... SIgh...

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Yeah my clutchnet 6 puck sprung hub aint holding. I dont have a dual diaphram one though.

On a side note the car was up on a lift today and the shifter bushings are junk on my car. theres a whole lot of play there. That might be your problem too.

I replaced my shifter bushings with poly bushings last year when I did my short shifter. It made a world of difference in how the shifter feels.

[AccordEpicenter]

haha ive had a pacesetter adjustable shifter for the last 5+ years but never installed it. It might be time to

[guaynabo89]

I wish I had my own lift too Tim.

Hashman it only comes with 2 bushings right?

The bushings on mine are where the rod actually connects to the tranny where it has a 10mm bolt that goes from top to bottom.


beware the pacesetter. I have it right now and it actually makes shifting a little hrder being tht its so light. Back in the day they use to keep em on the shelves though. lol (94-96)

[AccordEpicenter]

Update:
Waiting on brake parts, got to change my master cyl and pass side rear wheel cyl, had to order some decent flare wrenches and fluid as well...

[AccordEpicenter]

http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0528001829.jpg
http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0528001827a.jpghttp://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0528001827c.jpg

Well the car runs and drives and I believe I fixed all the leaks and small ish... Its 85 in NY and the car ran cool around town, and I have the slim fan wired on all the time so thats good. I have the brake parts ordered so they should be here soon. Now the only issue Ive noticed, is that the car had great oil pressure, and it still does, at idle its about 25-30 psi hot, but it doesnt seem to want to get over 55psi, and wants to stay that way from 3000+ rpm... Im running 10w-30 and I still only have less than like 25 miles on the engine, do you guys think that could be trouble? I adjusted the clutch and the car feels much better to drive too

[guaynabo89]

so your driving it?

oh can you tell me the deka pt number for that batt?

[AccordEpicenter]

etx14. I didnt really drive it much at all and im still not until i get things ironed out... The oil pressure is making me think maybe the screen or the filter is getting plugged or somthing

[guaynabo89]

why wheres it at?

[AccordEpicenter]

25-30psi at idle (1200 ish rpm) but it used to go to 65+ psi after 3000 warm and cold. Now it only seems to want to go to 50-55psi warm from 3000rpm+. Im concerned that somthing is wrong with either the pump or there is junk in the pickup etc...

[guaynabo89]

chaned to a different brand of oil filter?

I actually noticed a couple of psi diff when switchhing from a kn oil filter to a regular purolator

[AccordEpicenter]

whats your normal oil pressure when warm? I have a wix filter... I havent changed the oil yet though

[guaynabo89]

I'll have to double check, but I believe it's in the 55-65 area. I'll get back to you on that one.

I'm using 20-50 as well

[AccordEpicenter]

Also I was thinking, I need to find the correct spark plug wires for my car. I have the cyngus obd1 conversion kit, so the NGK wires i have dont even come close to fitting, what are good wires that fit?

[88LXi68]

looking good and I am sure you will get those little bugs worked out soon

[Rendon LX-i]

sounds like a oil pump issue. if anything you can shim the housing. Those togas are known for epic fail. yet some say its good. My oem at idle was 25-30 and at 3k it was at 40 and at full wot 98 plus. no matter where im at if i smash it it jumps to 95

[AccordEpicenter]

im thinking of swapping to a new oem honda oil pump but majestic honda doesnt seem to carry anything for our cars anymore, so im checking other places.

[Rendon LX-i]

is there a napa around your area. They carrey good pumps.

[guaynabo89]

sorry im a little late.

after engine is warmed up using 20/50 castrol and kn filter im at 50-53 at idle (8-900) and up to 70 at 4k+rpm.

Sound the same as yours?

[88LXi68]

it is time, gather the others...

[guaynabo89]

wtf!

that's my line.

[AccordEpicenter]

with the 10w-30 im only at like 50-55psi warm over 3k. I have a new honda pump on the way, so im going to try changing it, the oil, and the oil filter.

[rjudgey]

sloppy gearchange, i made up a ally bush to go into the linkage on teh gearbox, this makes it nice and tight feels like proper race car change!!

[guaynabo89]

I'm also planning on going custom_
, only I'm going to use Derlin plastic.

[Civic Accord Honda]

yay! i dont think ive ever seen pics of your car before O.o how long has she been down?

[AccordEpicenter]

like almost 3 years dood. I blew up the stock motor with my first turbo setup, then put in a built motor, had problems with that, sold my turbo setup almost entirely, started over and built an almost all new setup and here we are today.

[MessyHonda]

sloppy gearchange, i made up a ally bush to go into the linkage on teh gearbox, this makes it nice and tight feels like proper race car change!!

yeah i need to try that...on mine it was missing a heat sheild and my poly busshings melted under the exhuast heat...i dont think our transmission is strong enough...i already broke 2 with NA set ups

[89T]

jason how's the car running?

[AccordEpicenter]

ive got alot of stuff going on right now so I havent been able to work on it much at all lately... sorry guys

[Oldblueaccord]

etx14. I didnt really drive it much at all and im still not until i get things ironed out... The oil pressure is making me think maybe the screen or the filter is getting plugged or somthing


Oil cools the turbo?

I would look at oil temps and aeration of the oil.

Thats pressure I get right now at my mileage with 10w40 Havoline.


wp

[AccordEpicenter]

oil feeds and cools the turbo. Im getting ready to solve this problem now. Ill try the oil and filter change and see what its like then. The coolant leak is fixed and the oil leak seems to be possibly an axle seal in the trans. I got the plug wires to fit and got the new master cyl and wheel cyl installed and bled, but the pedal still feels weak, i think im going to have to pull the front brakes apart and see what they look like, i bled them quite a bit. Hopefully if i can get a dyno day together Ill get tuned in nov.

[guaynabo89]

sound good!

make sure to yake excessive pics/vids for no reason. :D

[89T]

Bump for a slow accord! :D

[AccordEpicenter]

ok, I changed oil and oil filter, and the oil pressure didnt rise much at all, so its still about 55-60 warm or cold, even at idle and it cant see if the relief valve opens and when by the gauge, so im in the process of changing the toga oil pump with a new honda pump. Also the brakes were still feeling weak and had a low pedal so i was like wtf? I bled them and adjusted the rears and it didnt change much, so i took a look at the front brake pads, aem performance pads, and they were all cracked to shit, literally, cracks all the way through the pad material to the backing and cracks in the pad material from end to end length wise, so I think thats def the problem. Other than that, i fixed my shifter bushing and trying to change the pump. Thats it.

[Tdurr]

videos. NOW!

[AccordEpicenter]

ugh. I changed the oil pump back to the oem honda and it had no effect. The oil pressure is still the same, so im going to try swapping oil filter bases with the relief valve etc...

Update:
Son of a bitch. I was ready to pull out the oil filter base and swap relief valves, but then I decided just to verify the gauge was working correctly. So I removed the gauge from the car and was going to use some compressed air and test it, but as soon as I got it out of the car, the needle was pointing all over the place and some pieces fell out the back! WTF?! This is a mechanical auto meter gauge btw... So i pieced it back together and fixed the linkage just to see if i could test it out, and it registered 85-90psi oil pressure at idle! Thats wayy better than the 50-60psi i was getting. So I guess it was the gauge after all!

Updatex2: Trans is fixed and battery is finally mounted. Waiting for brake pads for now...

Update x3: New brake pads in, need to bleed brakes again. Bolts for the fuel rail stripped right out and the fuel rail actually popped off while i was driving, gas everywhere (omg!!) but thats helicoiled and fixed now. Finishing up wiring some gauges.

[Tdurr]

wtf while u were driving?? thats some crazyness right there. glad it didnt end badly!
we need vidoes btw.

[89T]

jason get it done bro. waiting for u to hit the dyno.

[AccordEpicenter]

wtf while u were driving?? thats some crazyness right there. glad it didnt end badly!
we need vidoes btw.

yeah while i was driving. Could have totally gone very wrong. Im finishing up some minor details and ill prolly hit the dyno soon

[Rendon LX-i]

So is this a faulty gauge that gave you wrong readings? thats some fail right there. I would of bitch them out lol

[Tdurr]

video of the dyno please! lol i might be doing that here soon.. untuned and errything

[AccordEpicenter]

sorry dyno tune is on hold until my houses and divorce are finished or nearing completion...

[Tdurr]

divorce.. no bueno.
Good luck with that man, sorry to hear.

[Accordtheory]

[http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh7/lxiflyby/0528001827a.jpg

Well the car runs and drives and I believe I fixed all the leaks and small ish... Its 85 in NY and the car ran cool around town, and I have the slim fan wired on all the time so thats good. I have the brake parts ordered so they should be here soon. Now the only issue Ive noticed, is that the car had great oil pressure, and it still does, at idle its about 25-30 psi hot, but it doesnt seem to want to get over 55psi, and wants to stay that way from 3000+ rpm... Im running 10w-30 and I still only have less than like 25 miles on the engine, do you guys think that could be trouble? I adjusted the clutch and the car feels much better to drive too

First, props for staying in the game and keeping a turbo 3g going. I've been slipping up with my car, seems to be the last thing I want to spend money on these days.

But as far as your car, I have a few thoughts. First thing to hit me was flipping the turbo around so it sits like a normal top mount, intake toward the driver's side and the turbine over the manifold, instead of out in front of it. That would allow you to move the radiator forward and into a much, much more ideal situation for cooling. Relocating the large mass of the turbo closer to center of the powertrain's axis of torsional vibration would be easier on the manifold, studs, etc, too. Also, if that turbo has fittings for coolant lines, I'd strongly recommend connecting them. I can't tell from your pic for certain if they're not hooked up, but I don't see it. I know a lot of people don't do it, but I remember my car going down the highway, 1400F egt, that's probably enough to cause constant damage to the oil without coolant going through the center section.

As far as the oil pressure gauge, I would Not trust that thing, you said you pieced it back together, I would have finished it off with a hammer! First you said it read too low, then it showed 85-90 at idle? Throw that thing in the trash!

P.S. Carry a fire extinguisher...

[AccordEpicenter]

First, props for staying in the game and keeping a turbo 3g going. I've been slipping up with my car, seems to be the last thing I want to spend money on these days.

But as far as your car, I have a few thoughts. First thing to hit me was flipping the turbo around so it sits like a normal top mount, intake toward the driver's side and the turbine over the manifold, instead of out in front of it. That would allow you to move the radiator forward and into a much, much more ideal situation for cooling. Relocating the large mass of the turbo closer to center of the powertrain's axis of torsional vibration would be easier on the manifold, studs, etc, too. Also, if that turbo has fittings for coolant lines, I'd strongly recommend connecting them. I can't tell from your pic for certain if they're not hooked up, but I don't see it. I know a lot of people don't do it, but I remember my car going down the highway, 1400F egt, that's probably enough to cause constant damage to the oil without coolant going through the center section.

As far as the oil pressure gauge, I would Not trust that thing, you said you pieced it back together, I would have finished it off with a hammer! First you said it read too low, then it showed 85-90 at idle? Throw that thing in the trash!

P.S. Carry a fire extinguisher...

Thanks dude! No the oil pressure gauge was replaced with a newer one! There are no water cooling options with this turbo, and an oil cooled centersection is just fine provided you have enough oil flow and let it idle before shutting the car off. I understand where you are going about the turbo's orientation but I did it this way for simplicity in routing the full 3" exhaust and making it fit... I have it ran between the engine block and the front beam near the drivers side radius rod and it barely fits. I didnt want to cut into the front beam to squeeze it in there but i could have. i really dont think i would have fit it any other way easily without adding a bunch of bends etc... Plus with the fan running the car has never overheated even in nearly 90 degree heat but i only have limited driving time on it.

Edit: Yes! Fire extinguisher is a must!

[Tdurr]

hurrry up.

[Rendon LX-i]

Looks like a mess but thats OG. lol I member watching your vids for along time. Now look at me LOL. i cant wait to tune. got everything just expect the dizzy. needs ICM and im getting that this week.

Do some cleaning up bro. I mean not to mean or nothing like that. YOu can get a smaller filter then that and your Civic Rad can set flush against the rad support.. REGRADLESS I love your build.

[AccordEpicenter]

thanks! Yeah its def not perfect!

[89T]

You'r my hero!

LOL! trying to clean up the 3 gee is a bitch. there is too much shit to get rid of, or hide. You can clock the compressor housing down and plumb over to a u bend then to the intercooler. At least thats the way I did the first one. Move the blow off under the passenger fender. I moved my full size battery behind the bumper cover on the passenger side pretty easy.

I am pretty down on one person posting in you'r thread so I'll leave it at that.

[Rendon LX-i]

O i agree. My shit looks nasty. I hate it so much. One of the guys from 3geez coming from portland to help me do the wire tuck. Im not good with that type of shit SO he said a man ill go help you. COO SHIT.

a if it wasnt for you i wouldnt be boosted. just put it that way.

[AccordEpicenter]

Ok I re bled the brakes and things seem to be better now, and I upgraded the fuel pump wiring with a relay that powers the 255 walbro intank right off the battery, to maximize pump output... I really think its just about dyno ready. I have to make sure its not leaking anything and I need to fix the speedo CEL because I didnt wire in the mod but thats about it. Ill call my friend tomorrow and discuss dyno time!

[89T]

vids are welcome in all threads! lol!
good luck.

[Rendon LX-i]

What ^ said

[Tdurr]

i need to make a vid before all of u :P
sounds good mann hurry upp

[gfrg88]

:woot:

[AccordEpicenter]

Update:

Distributor is rewired and the brakes are back together. My divorce is nearly finalized so it looks like ill be able to hit the dyno soon. I was talking to one shop but they decided they didnt wanna tune it (Mike @ innovative is pussy and wont touch anything unless it is an STi or an EVO, true story) so Im talking with another local shop about having them tune it. I need to finish the wg dump tube and the speedo pulser wiring other than that she runs and drives...

[Rendon LX-i]

Sweet. Need to see some vids.

[AccordEpicenter]

Update: Finally done with my ex wife so we are hitting the dyno next week! Im having a local shop tune it (i know the guy, went to college with him, plus he has a 1000whp bmw 3 series) Im looking the car over and found out the turbo mani's T3 flange was warped and leaking so I need to straighten that out and put it back together (about 1/16" warp), so i hope that solves the problem I was having of getting the turbo to spool and low boost pressures. Im gonna be running on 112 Leaded, no methanol for now, hallman boost controller with the big blue spring in the Tial 38mm wg (its 1.0 bar then turning it up with the controller). I have a feeling we are gonna make fairly LARGE numbers with this setup ;)

[gfrg88]

Soooooo stoked!!!! I've been waiting for you to hit the rollers for a while now!!!! :D

[89T]

very nice! Don't forget the tripod and charged batterys for the video cam...

[AccordEpicenter]

Finally! Hit the dyno earlier today, and was a big sucess! We were getting it dialed in and made 429whp and 361wtq at 26psi boost! We were making 285whp at a mere 14psi boost! At 26psi we started having ignition breakup and the turbo is hitting a surge limit also, so we dialed it back to 23psi boost and 400whp so the turbo will live, but it looks like the turbo is becoming a restriction as gains started to roll off plus the injectors are already at 85% duty cycle so I might need to get 1000s and a bigger fuel pump as well as a bigger turbo (mainly a bigger turbo) to break 500whp. Is it fair to say its the most powerful street 86-89 accord ever? A20-T>* Suck on that Bee Series, SOHC it too em


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkpj3LkdhMo

There you go, Dyno vid. Ill take a pic of the dyno chart soon.

Edit: you can hear the compressor surge in the vid too as soon as it comes up to full boost (gets real loud)

[obdriver6]

:jaw: I want SO BAD!!!, too bad I'm going B series. lol How does it feel having all that POWER!?!?!?

[89T]

that is so sweet! Nice to see you back at it man.

[MessyHonda]

im happy for you because the last powerful a20 was doing 330whp and you passed that by almost 100. do you have heavy duty axles? im surprised that the transmission can hold all that power.

[AccordEpicenter]

Thanks guys! Stock LX/DX trans and axles and pulls were made in 4th gear. Jerry what turbo are you using? Im thinking of going with a SC6176SP and a turbo cam with some 1000s and kickin it up to 500whp. Its def doable the motor is rock solid, we did well over 25 dyno pulls... And yeah, it just crushes the competition. From what I recall this also beats wickedaccords sleeved full race GSR motor, although he was running way less boost. Im not sure if hes even got that car together still... Also all runs were on a Dyno-Mite dyno, not a Dynojet etc (dynojets tend to read 10-20% high).

[89T]

Man that's just awsome... I am still speechless. I am running the precision billit 6262 with the .82 exhaust side.

[RobT5580]

Sweet….The A20 is definitely a solid base for that level of power and boost.

[gfrg88]

:bow::bow:

[88LXi68]

NICE numbers! Any thoughts about caging it?

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Wow!.... Really nice numbers!... That's fantastic.

[Tdurr]

alright so i know i gotta top you when im done with my build. hahah i want 500hp daily(high bewst)


But sounded good. deff swap out those injectors, what size u got now?

[AccordEpicenter]

eventually itll prolly have to be caged im thinkin. I have 880s but they are at almost 90% duty cycle so it looks like 1000s are almost a must... plus the fuel pressure at peak boost is nearly 70psi (40 ish psi +26psi boost) im prolly gonna get a 340lph intank and see what we can do. But I really think the turbo is choking the motor up (peak power at 6500rpm?! Plus i feel it should have made more at 26psi boost), I really need a p trim turbine wheel plus the compressor side is gonna be prolly maxxed at a lil over 500whp. Im most likely just going to run it this coming year with spark upgrades and see how we do and go from there. The dyno chart shows big power and tq everwhere, its not like these are very short peak powers either so this car will be a contender. Also, with the sae correction on the dyno im pretty sure the car made more power than reported but de rated it due to the cool temps on the dyno... Im guessing the car made an additional 25-40whp more

[gfrg88]

Corn fuel and more timing?

[AccordEpicenter]

id need wayyyyyy more injector (like 1800cc injectors) , lines, at least 1 more fuel pump and even then idk. This was tuned on C10. The thought has crossed my mind but the fuel system mods alone would be spendy.

Edit: If I spent alot of time on the street daily driving etc then I probably would but im not sure its worth it right now

[gfrg88]

where are the 500+whp dyno vids at??? street rippers???

[AccordEpicenter]

where are the 500+whp dyno vids at??? street rippers??? Its just starting to get nice out in NY so I will make some street pulls and take video in a few weeks. I cant wait until the track opens up!

[Rendon LX-i]

Good work

[gfrg88]

Its just starting to get nice out in NY so I will make some street pulls and take video in a few weeks. I cant wait until the track opens up!

I hear you, man!!! Track opens up early next month here for us!! I'm putting in overtime on my car to get it running asap!!

[Tdurr]

I miss boost.

[DarkCreep]

I like your tires OP.

[Unknown]

This is almost inspirational. I want a 3g...

[89T]

I miss boost.

Tim if you keep it out of the nopi circut, you might keep it longer. Lol!

[89T]

Tracks are opening up fellas, let's get some vid's going :p

[Tdurr]

Tim if you keep it out of the nopi circut, you might keep it longer. Lol!

:ninja:

[AccordEpicenter]

http://aclassblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/hector_01.jpg
thats why im going legit homie, im trying to get on the nira circuit, you heard about that?

[89T]

haha! that. Was epic.

[gfrg88]

lmfao!!!

[AccordEpicenter]

opening day was supposed to be last sat but it rained so I didnt go... and now its snowing in NY AGAIN. So its prolly gonna be a few weeks guys...

[Tdurr]

Dude it's pretty cold down here in ga

[89T]

fawk, it was 85 here today... lol.

[Tdurr]

Lol it was mid 50s i think today, and yesterday mid 40s and windy

[AccordEpicenter]

I might get the car out this weekend but run it on the road on 93 on spring pressure (14psi boost) but only if its nice out... I cant wait to get it to the track


Edit... spring pressure is still 285whp...

[AccordEpicenter]

UPDATE:

Got the car out today, I got a couple of weak sauce speedo vids doing 2nd gear roll ons, ill see if I can post them tomorrow. I put about 100miles on it today... the motor was pretty solid. Even on 14psi the car is DAMN FAST. Easy low 12 sec car on low boost. There were a couple times the car laid down 250+ft of rubber, both tires lit from a roll on... say 20mph, hit the limiter in 1st then punch it into second and keeps the tires smoking! Impressive actually! If you brake boost too spool the turbo up and then stand on it from 50-60mph ITLL SMOKE THE TIRES. Thats pretty damn good esp for a 24.2x8.5 drag radial... Stock tire height is 23"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXExdXqkBhM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHCdzt6FkzY

Damage assessment: Pass side inner cv joint started working itself out of the trans and leaking trans oil so I have to change it, the radiator mounts snapped off so itll have to be redone. Thats all I can see right now...

[89T]

nice, when are you getting it to the track?

[Tdurr]

Oh hell yea! I cant wait till im on your level. Drove my buddies built gsr teg the otherday while it was on low boost(13 psi)
Shit got down for 380whp. 400 in an accord would be slightly scurry at first :)

[AccordEpicenter]

This is on LOW boost...14psi. Thats approx 285whp... Soo on C10 its got another 144whp more to go at 26psi boost!

But anyway... Its gonna be a few weeks. The car has to get fixed again and im going away for vacation. Id say its gonna be at least another 3weeks before i can hit the track. Im gonna start out on low boost to just start making passes then turn up the boost controller when I start getting the car sorted out. With the stiffer suspension and drag radials the car actually hooks up pretty good on low boost... or at least as good as can be expected for the street...

[gfrg88]

Badass!!!!!! Can't wait to get my built shit running!!!

[AccordEpicenter]

update:

I started looking into the motor because the oil never seemed to be clean and it started losing coolant. I thought it was from a small leak around the stat housing because the motor always had great oil pressure and never ran hot, ever. So i drained the oil and it looked tan like there was moisture in it so I decided to just go ahead and take the head off... and voila! Headgasket was blown to bits... Im actually shocked the car ran as good as it did with this. Its blown between cyls 3-4 and 2-1 and between the water jacket and cyl on #3. I dont think the bottom end got messed up so Ill prolly just leave it together for now... Looking closer at the head it looks like its warped and the cam may have been damaged.

[Tdurr]

Damn thats a shame. What hg did you have?

[AccordEpicenter]

stock honda on miata head studs

[89T]

what did you tourque the studs at?

[AccordEpicenter]

iirc like 70ft lbs hahah

[89T]

that sounds about right.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah im kinda confused. My only idea is the head must be warped...

[Tdurr]

Damn. Well bigger upgrade time?

[AccordEpicenter]

tough to say yet. Gotta talk to the machinist and see what he says

[Tdurr]

True true..

[obdriver6]

Sweet vids but sucks what happened to the head gasket!

[AccordEpicenter]

machinist says the head is within spec so he reccomends changing the gasket and retorque after you heat cycle the engine. He said he had problems with some blower motors at times (he mostly builds v8 race motors) and has had good results with copper spray so it looks like im going to try this again with a felpro gasket and copper spray this time, and also re torque after heat cycling the motor.

[Tdurr]

Good stuff. Get er done.

[bobafett]

Just posting to get subscribed to this thread.

Good work sir, seeing this may just be the kick in the ass I need to get going on mine again. I guess Turbo A20 is still the way to go, nothing has changed! :)

[guaynabo89]

Looking good man!

as far as your gasket issue. Im running oem honda with copper spray using the miata studs. (18lbs and no problems) That copper spray really makes a difference too.

One thing that happened to me that was causing my cooling system to get pressurized was that the studs werent seated all the way at the bottom of the block.

If you didnt do it before I suggest a good cleaning of the threaded holes in the block and to sit there going back on forth on the studs until they hit the block.

[gfrg88]

update?

[AccordEpicenter]

update: new headgasket installed, torqued to 80ft lb with hylomar spray (felpro) and got it back together. Came up to temp, car idled/sounded good. Drove around for a little bit and everything looked great. still on 14psi, did some boost pulls 1st-3rd gear and the temp started to climb a lil, not pegged but climb from normal. Thats not really normal for this car so i checked the coolant overflow and it was bone dry, so i checked the rad and it was rather dry and the top hose was dry, so then i checked the oil cap and voila! Chocolate milk.

SON OF A BITCH.

headgasket #2 lasted about as long as headgasket #1. motor runs good but uses water, same as before. The first headgasket was scorched between all cyls and between the water jackets and cyls from #4 and #3 the worst but they all looked like they leaked. Sounds like the motor has bigger problems than I thought... Im curious if maybe I have too much torque on the head gasket and thats causing problems

[gp02a0083]

check the head and the block again. From what your saying it sounds like the block and the head need to be decked again

[gfrg88]

MLS group buy? I'd buy two maybe three just to have as spares :D

[AccordEpicenter]

i know the head was flat, and the block was flat originally and it would take quite a bit to warp the block, so my feeling is somthing else is going on here. Maybe the studs arent seated correctly... maybe overtightening the headgasket is killing it.

[MessyHonda]

sounds like the headgasket needs to be stronger to hold the extra pressure. im curious to see where this 2nd headgasket failed

[gfrg88]

Weird part is, even Ryan(hondalude86) has had hg issues, and he's not boosted.. Wondering on the studs now...

[Tdurr]

Did u tq the studs via arp specs or by hondas specs?

[2oodoor]

sounds like the headgasket needs to be stronger to hold the extra pressure. im curious to see where this 2nd headgasket failed
Yes and before it blows between cyl, maybe use a camera and a pressure tester though first.

[89T]

jason, did you heat cycle the engine then re-torque. Were you wtching the afr's while on a pull?

[AccordEpicenter]

jerry, im on 14psi, rich, with a very conservative ignition map. I didnt heat cycle the engine and re torque, but it was torqued to 80ft lb. That should be more than adequate even if I lose some torque after it heat cycles. On my stock bottom end i have hit 17-18psi spikes and never had issues. Ive looked at the plugs, pistons and everything else and I dont see any signs of detonation. With all the leaking and issues ive seen my personal belief is that either im running out of thread on the head studs preventing the headgasket from getting the full clamping force or somthing else is preventing the head from fully seating down. The first headgasket showed signs of leakage between all cyls. Im going to have to look into guayanabo suggestion and see where im at. Im noticing that other guys running arp headstuds right now are also having problems even NA.

[2oodoor]

my personal belief is that either im running out of thread on the head studs preventing the headgasket from getting the full clamping force.
sorry to but in but are there any signs of oil leaking around the outside of the head? No strange dips in oil pressure at the guage, if you have one>?
just curious, I thought the same thing I quoted you on here when I first read this.

[AccordEpicenter]

no oil leakage externally from the headgasket area... oil pressure has always been rock steady. I took 2 nuts off of the head studs to see if i was running out of thread and it looks like i have plenty of thread even if i take the washer off, the thread continues into the head, so maybe this isnt it... Ill have to see when I take the head off if i can get the headstuds to seat better but my feeling is that its a long shot.

Who knows,i might be just killing the headgasket with wayyyy too much bolt tq, 80lb ft with arp lube is like 100-110lbft with 30w oil... Stock is 49lbft with 30w oil...

[Tdurr]

Your using a honda gasket? And by checking the threads he means making sure they are seated in the block 100%

[AccordEpicenter]

first was honda this one was a fel pro. Ill have to pull the studs out and clean them up but after talking to the machinist and a few others it sounds like its just the head stud tq thats killing the gaskets...

[AccordEpicenter]

https://www.hondapartsdeals.com has honda headgaskets. these are becoming hard to find. Speaking with a machinist and an engine builder today they estimate the engine was around 20% down on power with the blown headgaskets. I might have to make another trip to the dyno to break 500whp on paper

[gfrg88]

Do it! Over torquing makes sense..

[Tdurr]

Weird, im 98% sure i tqed my arp studs to 80ft/lbs on my turbo set up & i never had a hg problem...

[cygnus x-1]

Do it! Over torquing makes sense..


Not necessarily. If you squeeze it too much the head can distort and create uneven clamping force. I don't remember what I torqued mine too but I want to say it was more like 60ft-lbs using the ARP lube. 80ft-lbs might be pushing it.


C|

[AccordEpicenter]

Weird, im 98% sure i tqed my arp studs to 80ft/lbs on my turbo set up & i never had a hg problem...

did u use arp lube or motor oil? But yeah I really think the bolt torque is causing my issues.

[89T]

Hmm, I thought I only went 20 over stock, with oil.

[AccordEpicenter]

still Jerry, 60lb ft with oil is like 45lb ft with arp moly lube.... im at 80lb ft with arp lube. waaaaaaayy tighter.

[gfrg88]

I went 65 with arp lube

[Tdurr]

did u use arp lube or motor oil? But yeah I really think the bolt torque is causing my issues.

A basic light arp molly lube. The pack they give you is enough to do like 5 sets of studs.

Also make 200% sure All of the studs are level/bottemed out in the block.

[Rendon LX-i]

Agree. Can't compress a liquid so when you tighten down the stud it may feel like you hit bottom. But you haven't. Air compressor is your friend.

[Tdurr]

Yea air compressor saftey shades and brake cleaner

[AccordEpicenter]

Yea air compressor saftey shades and brake cleaner

Truth!

[AccordEpicenter]

I went 50ft lb with arp lube and a victor reinz gasket this time and it still blew in the first 10 miles. At this point I guessing the block is warped. I'm tired of wrenching on the car so Im putting it up for sale. Ive got way too much time and money into the car in general. At this point I'm probably going to buy a faster bike and keep racing that. Im just sick of it

[Rendon LX-i]

it happens man. i went b series an all motor lol so i dont have to worry about blowing it up as much lol

[AccordEpicenter]

I'm just sick of screwing around. I think the motor needs to come apart again and I don't want to bother. I can have the head off the motor in less than an hour... But I started a fs thread...

The car is easy 10 sec capable but I've been running almost that fast with the bike since the car has been down...

[2oodoor]

Definately understand that feeling. What would it take to prep a jy block for that crank assy. ?

[AccordEpicenter]

youd be much better off just getting the block decked or the head milled, whichever. The pistons are fitted to this block as are the bearings

[89T]

Did i just hear the towel hit the mat?

[elpuma]

No bueno

[Tdurr]

Did i just hear the towel hit the mat?

I think so...

[89T]

Fwiw, jason i have admired what you have accomplished with your 3rd gen. I aswell as the rest of the fourm were excited to see that car run down track 1 more time. Maybe it was not ment to be. Eithier way my hat is off to you. Good luck with the sale.

[AccordEpicenter]

update: Thanks guys!

At the urging of a few close friends of mine we tore the head off and started looking it over and the head had less than a thousandth warp (like my machinist said before) and the block was about a thousandth off as well (so both are in spec) so we still dont know why we are blowing gaskets... Ive heard we need to heat cycle the motor with a new gasket and retorque the bolts... Weve used 4 gaskets at 3 different torques so Im pretty sure we ruled out bolt torque as the direct cause.

One other thing: Dont ever use a straightedge from harbor freight, complete junk and was at least 4 thousandths off from flat. Ironically, the other side of it seemed flat. It took a minute to catch this.

[Tdurr]

U used 3 diff brand headgaskets right?

[2oodoor]

I need to go back and find what the specs were on your cam if you posted that before.
Wouldn't that be a hoot if you were lifting the head with backpressure!

[Oldblueaccord]

update: Thanks guys!

At the urging of a few close friends of mine we tore the head off and started looking it over and the head had less than a thousandth warp (like my machinist said before) and the block was about a thousandth off as well (so both are in spec) so we still dont know why we are blowing gaskets... Ive heard we need to heat cycle the motor with a new gasket and retorque the bolts... Weve used 4 gaskets at 3 different torques so Im pretty sure we ruled out bolt torque as the direct cause.

One other thing: Dont ever use a straightedge from harbor freight, complete junk and was at least 4 thousandths off from flat. Ironically, the other side of it seemed flat. It took a minute to catch this.

I think it would sell better if its was running IMHO.


wp

[gfrg88]

this just LITERALLY made me sad. You were the first guy that ever inspired me to build an A series.. Hoping you keep it, and get it all figured out. Good luck, Jason!

[AccordEpicenter]

on the 2nd heat cycle the motor started to use water yet again. Im completely stumped as to what the issue could be at this point, so at this point ive had enough. Id like to sell the car whole but i doubt there is much interest in this car...

[gfrg88]

Part out. sell car stock. Probably the best way to go..

[2oodoor]

True^^^
if it were me, I would put it back togEther and put some blue devil in it, or reliable block sealer. I would not conceal that move to potential buyers, they won't be able to wipe the grin off their face after a ride.

[89T]

Was the head ported? Do you think that there are any cracks in the intake or exhaust ports?

[gfrg88]

Last resort.. Give it a shot :dunno:
http://youtu.be/4xfIUiEXHog

[AccordEpicenter]

the head is ortiz's old one off his 10 sec race car, its been heavily ported and has springs/valves/retainers and a bullfrog cam. At this point the only thing that would make alot of sense is the head having a big crack in it. eventually ill tear into it and find out what the issue is. As for putting the car back to stock and then selling it, forget it, too much effort to justify my time. I might part it out and then sell the car as a shell though. Too bad though, the car is virtually rust free and solid. Plus its rare black.

[89T]

just fix it....; I'd hate to not see you around any more.

[obdriver6]

I'm very sad to hear this! Hope stick to it and try to fix it. If you don't mind me asking, what were the different torque specs you were using? Cause 50 lb-ft just seems too low.

[Tdurr]

Are you sure your boost gauge is correct and your not overboosting? Happened to a friend of mine...

[Oldblueaccord]

on the 2nd heat cycle the motor started to use water yet again. Im completely stumped as to what the issue could be at this point, so at this point ive had enough. Id like to sell the car whole but i doubt there is much interest in this car...

Put it together again and lower the boost to sell it. it would be plenty fast on 10 psi I would think.

or Cometic gasket or O ring the block or both.


wp

[gfrg88]

Cometic group buy? :D

[87turbolude]

sooooooooo... what happened? thread kinda just dropped off

['A20A3']

Man after reading this whole thread im depressed. What an awesome build. Epicenters car has always been my inspiration. I bought his old manifold years ago and im just now about to put my car back on the road and go boost. Its amazing what the A20 is capable of. I wish I was closer to ny, I would help wrench on this thing for free. Dont give up man! I always knew I could build a fast A20 because of seeing you do it. And your determination to make the old girl outrun everybody has inspired more than just me. I would agree with some previous posts tho, either a hidden crack in the head somewhere, or possibly heavy backpressure pushing the head off. You dont have any other head hanging around to test do you?

[89T]

I wish I still had his phone number. I, d bug the shit out of him .

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

['A20A3']

I would call him too but I think I pissed him off years ago about that manifold hah I hope he wont hold it against me. I wish I could buy that car from him, but not only do I not want him to sell it, if I bought another Accord everyone I know would kill me for not finishing mine hah!

After thinking about all this some more as well, it seems like maybe the miata studs are to blame. Especially if NA guys that run them have had issues with them. Would it be too far of a stretch to have arp either make a special set, or to mach the oem bolt but make it stronger? Whats the boost limit for stock head bolts? Shit if hes running 400+whp thru stock axles then why the hell cant stock head bolts hold?

[89T]

I have the Miata studs and I don't have any problems with them.

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['A20A3']

Damn. Well wtf then. I have a spare head and could probably acquire another...I wanna see this thing make some passes

[89T]

You me both

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2

[Tdurr]

:/

[AccordEpicenter]

Well, after an over 4 year hiatus, i got the Turboaccord out of storage and it's back in my garage! At this point I'm taking the head to the machinist and I'm gonna see what he can do with it, plus I might swap Trannys and possibly go bigger turbo. I'm thinking about going precision 6262 or 6266 etc... The 6152 was tapped out on my car by 6300 ish rpm... Yes, I'm serious about it

[Shane86]

Well, after an over 4 year hiatus, i got the Turboaccord out of storage and it's back in my garage! At this point I'm taking the head to the machinist and I'm gonna see what he can do with it, plus I might swap Trannys and possibly go bigger turbo. I'm thinking about going precision 6262 or 6266 etc... The 6152 was tapped out on my car by 6300 ish rpm... Yes, I'm serious about it

Welcome back

[gp02a0083]

Well, after an over 4 year hiatus, i got the Turboaccord out of storage and it's back in my garage! At this point I'm taking the head to the machinist and I'm gonna see what he can do with it, plus I might swap Trannys and possibly go bigger turbo. I'm thinking about going precision 6262 or 6266 etc... The 6152 was tapped out on my car by 6300 ish rpm... Yes, I'm serious about it

good to see interest in your project. Many of us vets' have left or have stopped working on our accords.

[Tdurr]

Dang. 6155 is too small eh? What kinda numbers you want again?

[AccordEpicenter]

I made 429whp and 362lb ft on the 6152S but I suspect with a bigger housing and far better turbine on the 6262 or 6266 the car should make an easy 500-525whp. I really think the stage V turbine and .48 housing choked up the car pretty bad. Even at 14-15 psi the car was well over 300whp. Iirc I was over 400whp at about 20psi but I had to jump to 26psi boost to get 429whp... Definintly hit a wall haha

[MessyHonda]

nice to see this going again

[AccordEpicenter]

Looks like I'm gonna stick with the SC6152S for now but change the turbine housing from a .48 to a .82. I saw a guy make 530whp on the 6152S with a .63 housing then he switched up and make another 70whp over that going to the .82 housing with no other changes. So I believe the car should make an easy 525-550whp easily with the BIG housing

[guaynabo89]

Keep posting, I want to see how far we can take these motors. :)

[Tdurr]

Make me proud. I gotta build a bottom end so i can chase #s with you.

[89T]

Looks like I'm gonna stick with the SC6152S for now but change the turbine housing from a .48 to a .82. I saw a guy make 530whp on the 6152S with a .63 housing then he switched up and make another 70whp over that going to the .82 housing with no other changes. So I believe the car should make an easy 525-550whp easily with the BIG housing
For sure go with the .82. I think we could actually go a little bigger, even though the .82 "feels" really good.

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[Shane86]

Bump

[AccordEpicenter]

Update:

The ported head I was running seems to have a few issues and was starting to drop a couple of valve guides so I got my old head and moved all the valves/springs/retainers over. I ported the stock head I have out and unshrouded the valves in the combustion chambers. That was a project in itself and I probably have at least 10-12 hours into it!! It's apparent that the stock ports needed a bit of work specifically around the bowl area between the guide and the valve seat. The exhaust bosses around the guide definintly had to be ground down (not the guide, just the bosses around it) and seemed to intrude on the port a good bit. I'll probably have the head entirely assembled and back into the car in a couple of weeks or so. I had recently helped my friend make over 625whp on his civic hatch (S366 turbo, way over 30psi boost) and he's gunning for me to get my car back together and wants to re tune it for me on the dyno with the new head on. So stay tuned!

[89T]

Update:

The ported head I was running seems to have a few issues and was starting to drop a couple of valve guides so I got my old head and moved all the valves/springs/retainers over. I ported the stock head I have out and unshrouded the valves in the combustion chambers. That was a project in itself and I probably have at least 10-12 hours into it!! It's apparent that the stock ports needed a bit of work specifically around the bowl area between the guide and the valve seat. The exhaust bosses around the guide definintly had to be ground down (not the guide, just the bosses around it) and seemed to intrude on the port a good bit. I'll probably have the head entirely assembled and back into the car in a couple of weeks or so. I had recently helped my friend make over 625whp on his civic hatch (S366 turbo, way over 30psi boost) and he's gunning for me to get my car back together and wants to re tune it for me on the dyno with the new head on. So stay tuned!Good to see you back!


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[Tdurr]

yesss!!! i need to get a head p&p

[guaynabo89]

yesss!!! i need to get head

A bit personal no?

[Tdurr]

A bit personal no?

Being deployed has its downsides lol

[AccordEpicenter]

Update: the head is back on the car and torqued down TIGHT with the head studs and copper spray. I'm using a new AC Delco digital torque adapter and it worked pretty well to get the right torque on the head studs. I have to get the intake manifold and turbo mani/turbo back on and also set the valve lash before its done. I'm probably going to upgrade to a 6262 turbo or somthing bigger in order to make more power, probably better in the long run than changing housings

[Shane86]

Update: the head is back on the car and torqued down TIGHT with the head studs and copper spray. I'm using a new AC Delco digital torque adapter and it worked pretty well to get the right torque on the head studs. I have to get the intake manifold and turbo mani/turbo back on and also set the valve lash before its done. I'm probably going to upgrade to a 6262 turbo or somthing bigger in order to make more power, probably better in the long run than changing housings

Awesome you'll have it going in no time

[AccordEpicenter]

Soo doing research on my setup, I initially thought the turbo was undersized but the compressor side is the same as GT35R (650+hp) and my turbine is the same as 6262 precision (rated to 705hp) so I don't think the turbo is the restriction overall. My intercooler is about 8" tall but only 2.75" thick so I'm thinking that might be my main issue considering most 600hp rated cores are between 10-12" high and 3"+ in thickness which is at least 25-30% bigger in terms of outright flow...

[Shane86]

Soo doing research on my setup, I initially thought the turbo was undersized but the compressor side is the same as GT35R (650+hp) and my turbine is the same as 6262 precision (rated to 705hp) so I don't think the turbo is the restriction overall. My intercooler is about 8" tall but only 2.75" thick so I'm thinking that might be my main issue considering most 600hp rated cores are between 10-12" high and 3"+ in thickness which is at least 25-30% bigger in terms of outright flow...

Yes definitely upgrade the inner cooler I was watching a video on YouTube and they swap from a littler one to a bigger one and it freed up a hundred horsepower

[89T]

Soo doing research on my setup, I initially thought the turbo was undersized but the compressor side is the same as GT35R (650+hp) and my turbine is the same as 6262 precision (rated to 705hp) so I don't think the turbo is the restriction overall. My intercooler is about 8" tall but only 2.75" thick so I'm thinking that might be my main issue considering most 600hp rated cores are between 10-12" high and 3"+ in thickness which is at least 25-30% bigger in terms of outright flow...Hit me up on face book. Jeremy gallegos

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