Alternator is toast

[ecogabriel]

I had not driven the car for a couple of days -brake pedal would go down when braking, so I ordered a new master cylinder that installed today. I went for a test drive and brakes are OK now.
After a few minutes of driving battery light came on so I drove back home and peeked under the hood. Everything looked OK but did not smell right; it was the typical odor of burnt electric windings... so the f... bastard is toasted.

[lostforawhile]

I had not driven the car for a couple of days -brake pedal would go down when braking, so I ordered a new master cylinder that installed today. I went for a test drive and brakes are OK now.
After a few minutes of driving battery light came on so I drove back home and peeked under the hood. Everything looked OK but did not smell right; it was the typical odor of burnt electric windings... so the f... bastard is toasted.

hey i've got a good one i'll trade you, i have a brand new one that's going in the new location on the car, but I need an old one to dismantle to make an idler out of it, i'll trade you the good working one on the car now for the burnt one, just cover the shipping. I was going to gut one down to the case, two bearings, shaft and pulley. turn down the armature into a solid shaft, the new one is going on the car but this one is good, you carb or FI?

[lostforawhile]

didn't see the lxi, I think the regulator just needs t be swapped from one to the other to convert from carb to FI. I hate to ruin a good alternator to make this idller when someone can use it, a burned out one is perfect

[ecogabriel]

Mine looks like it burnt nicely; the smell was not as strong but it was there...

It seems that I can swap the voltage regulators; I don't know how it is done exactly but I would take yours if swapping them is not that hard... and no problem for shipping I'll send you a label together with the toasted alternator. I even have the box in which they shipped my master brake cylinder

I wonder if there is something else you may need from "the big city"... umm

[lostforawhile]

Mine looks like it burnt nicely; the smell was not as strong but it was there...

It seems that I can swap the voltage regulators; I don't know how it is done exactly but I would take yours if swapping them is not that hard... and no problem for shipping I'll send you a label together with the toasted alternator. I even have the box in which they shipped my master brake cylinder

I wonder if there is something else you may need from "the big city"... umm
keep looking for a 3g with a non cruise control steering wheel, i need the contactor, i may be able to modify a cruise control contact ring to work also , i hate to see this good one go to waste since i have a new one in the box to go back in the car, it was fine when i parked the car, and it's been in the garage the entire time. keep your eye out for an alternator pulley from a 91 civic, need a four groove pulley since it will be driven off of the AC belt

[lostforawhile]

all right i'll pull it this weekend, as long as the bearings in the toasted one are fine,everything inside of it is being gutted, i'll take the armature down to a bare shaft. I need an idler to replace the alternator, I moved it because of the fuel bowl on the left SU

[ecogabriel]

all right i'll pull it this weekend, as long as the bearings in the toasted one are fine,everything inside of it is being gutted, i'll take the armature down to a bare shaft. I need an idler to replace the alternator, I moved it because of the fuel bowl on the left SU

Bearings do not squeak; the alternator is a "honda remanufactured". I stil wonder what went wrong with it. Maybe it was in its last throes IDK
I'll pull mine tomorrow and send it to you. I thought about taking the regulator apart but unless it is not too complicated I'll leave it to you -I don't have a bench vise here. PM where you want it shipped...

I'll be on the lookout next time in the jy; I cannot remember whether I have ever seen a non-cruise steering wheel though... well, maybe did not pay enough attention.

Thanks

[lostforawhile]

Ok i've got it and i'll ship it tomorrow, had to pull the carburators and manifold to get it out, oh well, it had to come out anyway to do some work ,i couldn't bring it across to get it out that way, because the oil lines are in the way. once the other one is gutted and stripped, i doubt much will go wrong with it. I was trying to figure out how to get the pulley off of the toasted one, then i figured, just stick a screwdriver through it. what am i going to do damage it? i think the armature is fried anyway.

[lostforawhile]

it looks like the diode pack burned up, make sure you don't have any shorts in your cable from the alternator, and make sure the battery is good and doesn't have an internal short. also for a rebuild the commutator contact area is worn to piss, i don't even know how the brushes were making decent contact.

[ecogabriel]

it looks like the diode pack burned up, make sure you don't have any shorts in your cable from the alternator, and make sure the battery is good and doesn't have an internal short. also for a rebuild the commutator contact area is worn to piss, i don't even know how the brushes were making decent contact.

I think it had been there for a long time although I did not check the repair records of the car.

If the area where the brushes made contact was worn out, just look at the fried copper in the outer windings (or whatever they are called). They just fried themselves. I'll check the thick alternator wire just in case...

[2oodoor]

If those brushes were not making good contact and some were, it was a ring of fire in there:burn:
I wonder if any brake fluid got in there to help it along?

cool

[ecogabriel]

If those brushes were not making good contact and some were, it was a ring of fire in there:burn:
I wonder if any brake fluid got in there to help it along?

cool

The reservoir had little fluid, and the spilled fluid hit the low beam at the rear of the engine-the same where the rear engine mount attaches to.
I have had electrical issues before. A few months ago my wife had a "battery light on" while driving; she made it home despite of it (and a storm).
Battery was flat dead when she made it home, but came back after recharging. I could find no obvious problem -loose cables/terminas. And the problem did not show up again... until last week that is.

[lostforawhile]

I've fixed hundreds of alternators and never ran into one like this, you can't remove the armature by normal means, it stays attached to the back half of the alternator case, the put screws in to hold the stator end cap, which included the bearings, I had to drill out a screw from the outside to be able to remove it, it appears the shaft is pressed through the bearings, what a mess. i'm still trying to remove the stator windings, normally you can remove the entire assembly, either it's pressed in or bonded to the case with excess heat. I don't even need the armature shaft, all I need is a 15 MM shoulder bolt to go through the front case bearing and through the pulley and secured with a nut. It's just an idler, and it mounts just like factory. I found the Honda civic pulley, from summit, it's an underdrive, 37 bucks, so it will have to wait. It's the only civic pulley I can find period, It says for 15mm shaft, that's the same as the three g alternator. It says fits most nippondenso . once I can get that pulley a major project concern will be finished and the alternator will go in.

[ecogabriel]

Was that pulley the one in the 1991 Civic you told me about?

[lostforawhile]

Was that pulley the one in the 1991 Civic you told me about?

well i would be happy just to have a regular old steel pulley if i can get one, cheaper for one thing, the 91 to 98 must be identical, might be eaisier to find a 98.

[lostforawhile]

I'm still trying to get the stator out, i've been baking it in the oven at the apartment next door , while i'm working on the civic, the landlord turned the power on over there, and since it's empty he let me run a few extension cords temporarily if the metal expands, i might be able to tap the case with a brass hammer and have it fall out. all it needs to become an idler, is a metric shoulder bolt, a washer and a nut, the pulley would be in the exact same position on the front bearing, just free spinning in an empty case. I ought to put lightning holes in the case. using the factory case insures the pulley is in exactly the same position as it was before

[lostforawhile]

it looks like in order to get the stator out,i'll have to make a cut through the alternator case, right through the stator, to take pressure offf of it, once it's out the case can be tig welded back together, and smoothed out for painting. the stator has apparently heat welded itself to the aluminum case.

[ecogabriel]

it looks like in order to get the stator out,i'll have to make a cut through the alternator case, right through the stator, to take pressure offf of it, once it's out the case can be tig welded back together, and smoothed out for painting. the stator has apparently heat welded itself to the aluminum case.

Maybe the case was heated before mounting the stator in it? Now when you heat them both get heated and cannot dislodge from one another. Is it possible to cut the stator from the inside out?

Today it rained almost all day here so I could not do anything with the car; hopefully I'll do some testing tomorrow.

Good luck with the Civic.

[lostforawhile]

Maybe the case was heated before mounting the stator in it? Now when you heat them both get heated and cannot dislodge from one another. Is it possible to cut the stator from the inside out?

Today it rained almost all day here so I could not do anything with the car; hopefully I'll do some testing tomorrow.

Good luck with the Civic.
there's an update in the civic thread, had to quit, the heat and 100 percent humidity are unbearable. had to walk to Nappa again to get a metric O ring for the dipstick tube, normally walking doesn't bother me but it about killed me. on that stator coil, normally you can get it out with some penetrating oil and a hammer, but the windings looked burned, so it probably overheated. simple cut and it's out. A simple Tig weld will fix the case. it's just an empty shell with a bearing and pulley anyway. All it does is tension the water pump.

[lostforawhile]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4021377.jpg

[ecogabriel]

I saw the windings burned and I could smell it... is that the photo from the diodes??? Maybe they shorted and ended up burning the windings too? or maybe it was the other way around? Anyway it almost left my wife stranded a few months ago in the middle of a storm... I have to post a picture of the brushes they are unevenly worn

The replacement alternator you sent me is installed and working. Wiring was OK. Car fired up no problems, no smoke. Drove in the freeway to warm it up well before taking it for emissions. It passed like a champ; I think it was its last year for emissions.

Take water with you when going out for a walk; very hot and very humid weather is bad.... and take it easy you won't go as fast as you might in other times of the year.

[lostforawhile]

thats the diode pack, thats why i fuse the alternator, the only thing keeping battery current out of it is the diode pack, one of them fails and it's a dead short. I've heard of more then one person having a fire due to an alternator short. hopefully yours will hold up, it doesn't have that many miles on it, sorry about the purpleation of it, didn't have a chance to paint it.

[ecogabriel]

thats the diode pack, thats why i fuse the alternator, the only thing keeping battery current out of it is the diode pack, one of them fails and it's a dead short. I've heard of more then one person having a fire due to an alternator short. hopefully yours will hold up, it doesn't have that many miles on it, sorry about the purpleation of it, didn't have a chance to paint it.

Oh you said the purple stripe??? It is perfectly fine with me.
I am sorry that I did not clean mine up a little bit; I had some paint thinner but I could not find a piece of cloth :wave: I was so p... off

[lostforawhile]

Oh you said the purple stripe??? It is perfectly fine with me.
I am sorry that I did not clean mine up a little bit; I had some paint thinner but I could not find a piece of cloth :wave: I was so p... off

it doesn't matter i had to dismantle it anyway and now i have to weld the case, so it will get media blasted then painted, it's a project.

[Hauntd ca3]

since its a denso altenator, why not just use a sawzall and cut through the stator from the inside, cut it in half and you should be able to get it out with out cutting the housing itself.
i've had to replace the odd denso stator in my job and usually they half rust themselves to the housing. a good sturdy punch and a big hammer gets them out most times.
as for the rotor windings, they press off the rotor shaft so you are left with just the shaft to put bearings on

[lostforawhile]

All I had to do was put a 4 inch slice in the case between slots, cut the stator in half, it's nothing to put a weld back on the cut and smooth it out. it's easy, i'll press the rotor off tomorrow.

[lostforawhile]

from looking at how badly burned everything was and overheated, I doubt this shaft will come off of the rotor, I think everything got pretty toasty, it's not needed anyway, the front alternator bearing is substantial, much more so then the thin bearing in the civic idler, it also has a retainer that goes behind it, it's plenty strong to act as a water pump idler, i have an axle bolt with threads on one end, it's a shoulder bolt, all i have to do is sleeve it where it goes through the bearing and pulley, I can make one sleeve and press it on the 1/2 inch axle bolt and change the diameter to 15MM

[lostforawhile]

this is all I had to cut, this is a simple TIG weld to put the case back together,
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4021378.jpg
you can see the size of the front bearing, it also has a retainer plate behind it. I just used an empty alternator case, because then I know the water pump belt is perfectly aligned.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4021379.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4021380.jpg

[lostforawhile]

I need to put the back cover back on, and put a dummy lead wire and plug out of it, just to see how many people are sharp enough to realize the case is empty lol

[2oodoor]

I need to put the back cover back on, and put a dummy lead wire and plug out of it, just to see how many people are sharp enough to realize the case is empty lol

im guessing it will have a bit of a different sound to it? :D

[lostforawhile]

im guessing it will have a bit of a different sound to it? :D

shouldn't have any sound, it's just an empty shell and bearing, I would have sure hated to make an idler bracket and make it work, this is the easiest way to do that.

[lostforawhile]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKc9TpB-cUY

[lostforawhile]

It should last for a while, it doesn't have that many miles on it, it's a Nappa rebuild which seems to be decent quality, I would never buy a Vatozone or an un advanced brand.