Oil

[gtmst3]

hate to clutter the forum but many people have asked and im not even sure myself so what oil should i use specifically for my car i bought it used i am the second owner it has 240000 miles and im not sure to use synthetic conventional or a mix. ive been told that if theres synthetic in the car and you switch to conventional you could damage the engine. im not sure of the truth to that but im in need of an oil change and dont know what to do

[2oodoor]

I don't think you can go wrong using synthetic blends like motorcraft or valvoline high mileage.

I always used castrol gtx though, even with a poorly maintained engine if you start using castrol you will see it get clean. It takes about three oil changes, which you should do every quarter (spring, summer, fall, etc.) and in less than a year you will see the oil clean on the dipstick and under the valve cover spotless.
If you try to clean one with the majic flushes or kerosene you risk clogging the oil pump pickup so gradual cleaning is better.

Pure synthetic is expensive and in my opinion not practical to use for some people, depends on what you got really. You will get most of the benefits just by using blend and it should be just fine in an engine ran on dino oil for years.

Just my opinion here of course....I do use all three oils I mentioned here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of brands making blends though, and I do know the motorcraft syn blend is really good stuff.

[gtmst3]

i can afford full synthetic if that is what is recommended by most

[2ndGenGuy]

I'll vouch with Roodoo. I used only Castrol GTX in my Accord for over 200,000 miles. It looked better internally than some engines I've seen with half that mileage. Of course, that's all a matter of maintenance, but I do like the GTX. I think with Synthetic, the major benefit is just less frequent oil changes. If you drive hard, like in track conditions, you might like a synthetic blend, or full synthetic. But if you're just a daily driver, good old dinosaur oil should be fine. :)

[lostforawhile]

I'll vouch with Roodoo. I used only Castrol GTX in my Accord for over 200,000 miles. It looked better internally than some engines I've seen with half that mileage. Of course, that's all a matter of maintenance, but I do like the GTX. I think with Synthetic, the major benefit is just less frequent oil changes. If you drive hard, like in track conditions, you might like a synthetic blend, or full synthetic. But if you're just a daily driver, good old dinosaur oil should be fine. :)

I would search for oil that still contains the zinc additive, it was just recently taken out, we have solid rockers that work off of the cam lobe, I'm switching to Brad Penn myself, but a lot of other oils designated for racing still contain it, or get the zinc additive and put it in at each oil change, it's important to protect the cam lobes. Yo can call Summit racing or Jegs and ask what oil they carry that still contain it, I believe even some Nappa brand oils still have it,.

[Vanilla Sky]

I'm gonna side with Lost on this one. Try to get something with a high zinc content. I think Rotella T still has a significant amount of zinc, and comes in a 15W30 (might be 15W40) weight as a synthetic and I've seen it work great in cars with solid lifters. At that mileage, I'd be weary of switching to a syn oil because I'm betting you have plenty of gunk seals built up that are keeping oil in the engine. If you are on top of things and are fine with replacing seals and gaskets, then going to a syn is okay. I switched to syn in a 220k car, and I had a lot of leaks for a while until the seal conditioners started softening the seals back up.

In something with less than 100k, no problems in switching to full syn. I run Pennzoil Platinum in everything I own that doesn't have a greasebomb engine.

[Lil Mike]

Yea i would not recommend going with a synthetic oil, you will most likely run into problems with leaks down the road. I was personally running rotella t 15w40 oil, and once in a while give it a castrol gtx oil change in both my 2gee and my 240sx, and have had zero problems at all, i love the rotella stuff :P

[2ndGenGuy]

I still don't believe it.

API Service SM motor oils (the stuff with the reduced ZDP content) were introduced in November of 2004 (Google it). That said, probably 98% of the cars on this forum have been running oils with reduced ZDP content for nearly SIX YEARS. Has anybody seen any significant cam wear? Any problems suddenly start coming up? Who has had rapid increases in wear on their camshafts? Anybody?

Also, GM sent out a tech bulletin regarding myths about the reduction in ZDP. The levels haven't been reduced to the point below which were originally established to eliminate flat tappet camshaft wear.

http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2007/12/

I know that this is a link to some random site, but it's an actual archive of GM service bulletins. As opposed to some people crying fowl who are selling expensive ZDP additives or oils claiming to be for older engines.

In the meantime, I'll just keep running regular (or synthetic) motor oil. kthx. :)

[lostforawhile]

I still don't believe it.

API Service SM motor oils (the stuff with the reduced ZDP content) were introduced in November of 2004 (Google it). That said, probably 98% of the cars on this forum have been running oils with reduced ZDP content for nearly SIX YEARS. Has anybody seen any significant cam wear? Any problems suddenly start coming up? Who has had rapid increases in wear on their camshafts? Anybody?

Also, GM sent out a tech bulletin regarding myths about the reduction in ZDP. The levels haven't been reduced to the point below which were originally established to eliminate flat tappet camshaft wear.

http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2007/12/

I know that this is a link to some random site, but it's an actual archive of GM service bulletins. As opposed to some people crying fowl who are selling expensive ZDP additives or oils claiming to be for older engines.

In the meantime, I'll just keep running regular (or synthetic) motor oil. kthx. :)
they were reduced,now they are removed, I'm just not taking chances, the engine was designed as far as metalurgy with the zinc in the oil in mind, the specs of the new oils simply don't meet the specs of these old engines anymore. There are a number of oils that still meet the levels, and the zinc additive puts it right back in, so it's not a big issue, you just have to be a lot more vigilant on what you buy. the reason for the removal was it makes the new converters wear out more quickly. If you figure a lot of the valve train parts for these engines are discontinued with no replacements, it's best to be very careful. the Brad penn oil is actually the old Kendall oil, they bought the wells,refinery, everything and put it back into production under another name. It's the green Kendall, great oil,I'm glad it's back, it was one of the finest oils you could buy. what the Zddp did, was form a film of zinc and phosphorus on the lifter contact points and on the cam, this film prevented metal to metal wear, the level was reduced, now the EPA has mandated that it be REMOVED from most domestic oils that meet the new car specs. so it's not there in most oils, not reduced, but gone, this is why it's so important to use an oil with the ZDDP compound in it or add the compound, you are putting back what the EPA said to take out.

[lostforawhile]

I'm not trying to say the sky is falling or anything, the fact is recently the zddp was removed from most oils , all of it, so it's best to look for an oil that still has it or use an additive, it's not that much to add at each oil change, the claim is that new car makers wanted it out, so they can warranty the converters for much longer, so the EPA mandated it, I can guarantee there is more to it then that, there are plenty of powers that be, that would love to remove every old car off of the road, and when old cars get destroyed you have no choice but to buy a new car, of course the new car makers love the ruling. anyway, it was supposed to be there, now it's not, just find an oil with it, or put it back in.

[ecogabriel]

When those engines were designed and manufactured zinc was an additive present in the oil in a certain proportion. This is a fact, and engineers took that into consideration; engineering is about making things strong without wasting resources.

They may have also considered changes in conditions (e.g. less zinc in oil) so there is probably room for reduced zinc in oil without causing problems

What would happen when there is NO zinc in engine oil? Only an engineer may answer this, but I think that due to the variety of factors affecting engine operation and durability, the answer would be a conditional answer. What I am pretty sure is that engineers' priorities today is on durability of the engines they are producing right now; what happens with older ones would receive much less attention from the industry.

Talking about specific oils, some places sell a multigrade SF grade oil for 1988 and older cars (I saw it in Walmart). My take is that "insurance" is available if one wants it; oils that still contain zinc are available -those for diesel engines. They are C- /S- rated so they can be used in both diesel and gasoline engines. Pick one that matches the needed viscosity; 15w40 works in the South most of the time but other places would be better with 10w30. I have used 15w40 on mine since I got it and works fine. Rotella T synthetic comes in 5w40 so that would be a best for one wanting a synthetic and zinc. As a plus, those oils have more cleaning agents.

Bottom line: go with your gut. You don't need to pay through the nose for engine oil with zinc. Besides, using it would do no harm.

[2ndGenGuy]

I don't think it's that big a deal in a stock A20. I think you're totally blowing it out of proportion and propagating hysteria by making posts like this, Tim. That's why I'm trying to challenge you here. I haven't found anything online suggesting that ZDDP has been completely removed. You need to provide something instead of just making claims over and over.

If you're concerned about reduced Zinc/ZDDP levels, there are TONS of oils that have it. There are even SM rated oils (Mobil 1: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf) that contain 900PPM zinc. When they're getting an SM cert on oils with that much zinc in it, I find it hard to believe that other manufacturers would be forced remove it completely. It's possible they have done it voluntarily, but in that case, I don't see why they would remove it without providing some other additive that would provide equal protection. It's not in their best interests to sell oil that's going to wear out your engine.

[lostforawhile]

I don't think it's that big a deal in a stock A20. I think you're totally blowing it out of proportion and propagating hysteria by making posts like this, Tim. That's why I'm trying to challenge you here. I haven't found anything online suggesting that ZDDP has been completely removed. You need to provide something instead of just making claims over and over.

If you're concerned about reduced Zinc/ZDDP levels, there are TONS of oils that have it. There are even SM rated oils (Mobil 1: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Files/Mobil_1_Product_Guide.pdf) that contain 900PPM zinc. When they're getting an SM cert on oils with that much zinc in it, I find it hard to believe that other manufacturers would be forced remove it completely. It's possible they have done it voluntarily, but in that case, I don't see why they would remove it without providing some other additive that would provide equal protection. It's not in their best interests to sell oil that's going to wear out your engine.Im not trying to start hysteria at all, not my intention by any means, I know that the pressure additive zddp was removed from the oil completely now, and it could be an issue, I know a lot of people who have built expensive engines, both for foreign and domestic and it's a very big concern for most of them, it's not necessary to use a super expensive oil,
but it would be a wise idea to find one that still contains the additive, there are still a number of them made. for all the work I've put into my car personally,it's worth the little bit extra to use a really good oil and filter, and the additive being in there is extra insurance against cam and rocker wear. no point in taking a chance, these cars are becoming classic cars now, and it's worth the effort to protect the engines in any way we can, it's not like they are dime a dozen civics or something, some places have lots of parts available but they are getting scarce in lots of other places

[2ndGenGuy]

That sounds more reasonable. But where did you find your information that ZDDP has been removed? That's all I want to know. Seems to me like all the good oils still have it.

[lostforawhile]

That sounds more reasonable. But where did you find your information that ZDDP has been removed? That's all I want to know.

the HAMB, it's the largest hot rod site in the world, a lot of people there are very worried because of this, the EPA mandated the removal because the zddp made the converters on cars wear out faster, on the old style converters with precious metals, it didn't have as much effect, they use different metals in the converters now, it works the same, but the zddp clogs them. The manufacturers are required to provide extended warranties on emissions components now, and the additive prevented the converters from lasting the warranty period. It was basically yanked with no regard to the effect on older engines. the car manufacturers pushed the change, and the oil companies of course followed them, then the EPA mandated it. There are still oils that contain it, mainly racing oils, which "should be used for off road use, bla bla bla" A lot of people were using Rotella, even it's levels were reduced way down. there is a ton of info on this on nearly every car site out there, some of it is the sky is falling, and some very useful info.

[2ndGenGuy]

Dude:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=11&page=1

Go through all those. Those are actual lab-tested fresh oils... They all appear to have zinc/phosphorous in them... Yes, there are some as low as 600ppm. But it doesn't appear to be gone completely. :dunno:

[lostforawhile]

Dude:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=11&page=1

Go through all those. Those are actual lab-tested fresh oils... They all appear to have zinc/phosphorous in them... Yes, there are some as low as 600ppm. But it doesn't appear to be gone completely. :dunno:

well the change was recent, so it's possible a lot of sites simply aren't updated yet

[2oodoor]

I saw that coming.... wow

Motorcraft oil which is what is recommended even over Rotella T, in Powerstroke diesels, Ive seen the difference in fleet use. Rotella T is really good, but so is the red bottle.

The zinc thing, well, I can see some OHV issues there esp with aftermarket cams , well and tiny oil holes in crank journals of domestic V8s. And some of those cam lobes in American iron are narrow as hell, some are wide as fark.
As for A20, I don't know, my opinion is it's like ordering a cheeseburger and then a diet coke:eek:. Keep quality oil in there that meets API, and keep up maintenance.

[lostforawhile]

it' s the flat rockers on the cam is what worries me, the zddp is an extreme pressure additive, it protects areas such as the rocker to cam area, in those areas the oil can't protect the surface, the additive in the oil coats the metal in those areas to protect from scuffing. the additive sacrifices itself, so it's important to stick to oil change schedules as it won't last forever.

[ecogabriel]

I saw that coming.... wow

Motorcraft oil which is what is recommended even over Rotella T, in Powerstroke diesels, Ive seen the difference in fleet use. Rotella T is really good, but so is the red bottle.

The zinc thing, well, I can see some OHV issues there esp with aftermarket cams , well and tiny oil holes in crank journals of domestic V8s. And some of those cam lobes in American iron are narrow as hell, some are wide as fark.
As for A20, I don't know, my opinion is it's like ordering a cheeseburger and then a diet coke:eek:. Keep quality oil in there that meets API, and keep up maintenance.

Had I been able to find 10w30 locally I would have switched all cars to A single oil. I saw the Motorcraft too but same problem that only 15w40 is available locally (maybe at the stealership is different?)
Those oils are all API SM but because of the heavier additives they do not meet the "for gasoline engines"; at least that was the explanation in the Rotella T website.

[russiankid]

I run Mobile 1 10w30 all year round and everything under the valve is clean without any scratches or anything.

[2oodoor]

Had I been able to find 10w30 locally I would have switched all cars to A single oil. I saw the Motorcraft too but same problem that only 15w40 is available locally (maybe at the stealership is different?)
Those oils are all API SM but because of the heavier additives they do not meet the "for gasoline engines"; at least that was the explanation in the Rotella T website.

I get MC at advance, I think walmart has it too, it is the synthetic and dino blend. I use that in 5w30w in my truck.
In the B20 as well, or Valvolines version of it, of which I miss quoted the name, its maxlife not hi mileage. also changed the name again as I saw it in Napa today, cant remember what it was now...
A20 I use castrol 20w50w...
If it isway past time to change and I am short on funds, I use walmart brand wtf it still lubes and cleans. :omg: lol

[russiankid]

I actually run Chevron Delo in the BMW. It is $11 for 5 quarts and it comes out clean every oil change, plus ever since I started using it the valve train has become significantly cleaner.

[ecogabriel]

I get MC at advance, I think walmart has it too, it is the synthetic and dino blend. I use that in 5w30w in my truck.
In the B20 as well, or Valvolines version of it, of which I miss quoted the name, its maxlife not hi mileage. also changed the name again as I saw it in Napa today, cant remember what it was now...
A20 I use castrol 20w50w...
If it isway past time to change and I am short on funds, I use walmart brand wtf it still lubes and cleans. :omg: lol

5w30 for diesel oil? wow! I would settle for 10w30... I'll check that; it would be great to use one single oil for all our clunkers.

when my 3G pissed oil for every single gasket :omg: I used the walmart brand too. The leaks were so bad that oil was not inside long enough to become dark :thumbdn:

[cygnus x-1]

If I had an engine with 240k miles on it I would put in the cheapest oil I could possibly find. As long as you keep up with the change intervals expensive oil isn't going to help you one bit, so why waste your money? I use full synthetic in my truck because it's a newer engine and I like to run it longer between changes. But my diesel Suzuki on the other hand is so worn out that you could probably put cooking oil in and it wouldn't make a difference. It just burns it all anyway. Last change on the Prelude I think I used 20W50 GTX. It's a little heavy so I think next time I'll try Rotella-T, which is 15W40. The Prelude only comes out in the summer and I like to flog it, so thicker oil is warranted.

As for the ZDDP thing, I think that really only matters during the cam/rocker break in period. After that I think you're fine with reduced levels. At least this is what the local speed shop guys (old school domestic) seemed to think. The shop where I get my engine machining done though does a wider range of stuff, domestic, import, and also heavy vehicles like city buses and such. Next time I'm there I'll see what they have to say.


C|

[CzEcHy]

I use 10w-30 Pennzoil High Mileage, yet my oil comes out black when I change it..

I change it every 2ish months (I deliver pizza so..)


Should I change oil or is this just normal cause my job..?



Never really paid much attention to it until now, I have 251,xxx miles.

[lostforawhile]

If I had an engine with 240k miles on it I would put in the cheapest oil I could possibly find. As long as you keep up with the change intervals expensive oil isn't going to help you one bit, so why waste your money? I use full synthetic in my truck because it's a newer engine and I like to run it longer between changes. But my diesel Suzuki on the other hand is so worn out that you could probably put cooking oil in and it wouldn't make a difference. It just burns it all anyway. Last change on the Prelude I think I used 20W50 GTX. It's a little heavy so I think next time I'll try Rotella-T, which is 15W40. The Prelude only comes out in the summer and I like to flog it, so thicker oil is warranted.

As for the ZDDP thing, I think that really only matters during the cam/rocker break in period. After that I think you're fine with reduced levels. At least this is what the local speed shop guys (old school domestic) seemed to think. The shop where I get my engine machining done though does a wider range of stuff, domestic, import, and also heavy vehicles like city buses and such. Next time I'm there I'll see what they have to say.


C|
just because your engine has 240000 miles doesn't mean it needs garbage oil, this is a Honda not a Ford, a lot of people put 500000 miles or more on their engines.

[2ndGenGuy]

it's like ordering a cheeseburger and then a diet coke:eek:.

I do that. But I think Diet Coke just tastes better. :eatarrow:

[gtmst3]

so how about this zinc additive can it be added to any oil because i am concidering the castrol gtx but if i can get the zinc additive i figure why not right?

[2ndGenGuy]

Because excessive zinc in the oil can cause deposit buildup, foul your spark plugs and destroy your catalytic converter...

[lostforawhile]

Because excessive zinc in the oil can cause deposit buildup, foul your spark plugs and destroy your catalytic converter...

I think if you follow the recommended amount being installed in the correct number of quarts, it shouldn't be an issue, but it has to be in an oil with the zinc removed, or it will cause an increase beyond whats recommended. The reason for the additive is to put the zinc back to the oils previous level,not increase it beyond what was in the oil before

[VIPER1988]

I use 10w-30 Pennzoil High Mileage, yet my oil comes out black when I change it..

I change it every 2ish months (I deliver pizza so..)


Should I change oil or is this just normal cause my job..?



Never really paid much attention to it until now, I have 251,xxx miles.


i would change oil. pennzoil and qstate are wax based. the wax separates at high temps and builds up. i bought a 70 chevelle with 50k miles, guy had receipts for pennzoil oil change every 3k miles. i pulled the valve cover and it was about half an inch thick with sludge.

i use castrol, valvoline, or Royal Purple. All of which come out clean.

[lostforawhile]

i would change oil. pennzoil and qstate are wax based. the wax separates at high temps and builds up. i bought a 70 chevelle with 50k miles, guy had receipts for pennzoil oil change every 3k miles. i pulled the valve cover and it was about half an inch thick with sludge.

i use castrol, valvoline, or Royal Purple. All of which come out clean.

the new oils like that don't have the problems of the old ones, there's a good chance the road draft,or pcv system on the Chevelle wasn't functioning either. the old oils had a terrible time with buildup, especially without a pcv system, the pcv is the biggest contributor to gunk free engines ever devised, since it pulls the water vapor and blowby gasses out of the engine, instead of them collecting in the oil. nothing wrong with black oil, all that means is it's doing it's job, the dirt and garbage stay suspended in the oil, and are supposed to be removed by the oil filter. It could be a bad filter that stays on bypass all the time, like frams that instantly bypass and circulate dirty oil most of the time.

[CzEcHy]

I use a WIX oil filter.. so should I change to castrol high mileage gtx or stay with pennzoil? I just want my engine to last and not struggle, its my only vehicle for the time being but I always figured pennzoil was good enough.. I don't mind spending some extra money for a clean engine

[lostforawhile]

I use a WIX oil filter.. so should I change to castrol high mileage gtx or stay with pennzoil? I just want my engine to last and not struggle, its my only vehicle for the time being but I always figured pennzoil was good enough.. I don't mind spending some extra money for a clean engine

The only thing i'm worried about with modern oil is the zinc content, it used to be there were a lot of problems with wax in oils, but thats just not a problem with new high tech oils. even Pennzoil, it's not the same as it was in the 70's and 80's. if it was still gunking up engines like it was then they would be long gone. the refining process has come a long way to remove the excess paraffin. the Pennzoil and quaker state that gunked up engines in the 70's and 80's is long gone, in the oil world today it's adapt and change or die, those companies aren't even owned by the same refiner anymore.

[Vanilla Sky]

Viper, the issue with sludging you have is that the motor probably never had proper heat cycles to burn off moisture. Some Risolene would take care of the issue. Couple that with a few long drives and a few 500 mile oil changes and you should be clean of major deposits. You don't want to Seafoam an engine that's sludged badly, you want to soften the sludge so it can be carried away in the oil. Seafoam breaks up the sludge, and you often get clumps of sludge in places you don't want it, causing spun bearings and blocked oil passages.