A/c help!!

[2drSE-i]

OK so i've literally been working on my A/C for 11 months now. FINALLY got all the lines, drier, expansion valve, compressor, belt etc etc etc on, Charged up the system, and now it won't turn on. I press the A/C button, and the button does not light up, but the secondary cooling fan kicks on. Jumping the compressor clutch works, the compressor turns on and blows nice cold air. This was last week, before the meet.

Now, same situation, except now the fan doesn't kick on either. I don't believe its an issue with the pressure switch, as I only put 3 cans in so I very seriously doubt its overcharged. Anyone have an ideas?

[nswst8]

# cans of what? R134a how many ounces per can. You should have only put in a total of 22ounces R134a.

Are you using gauges what are your pressures? What is the outside temp with pressures.

Fan problem could a bad fan, put 12 volts directly to the fan.
A bad Diode, Ground the low pressure 2P connector blue/red #2 wire fans should come on.

There are a host of tests, do these first. and if you have a manual they are listed there.

[2drSE-i]

Its Freeze 12, 12oz cans. Could you rephrase that test for me? Did you mean put 12v to the fan positive and ground the low pressure 2p connector, and then the fan should come on? We were using guages but i don't remember pressures or anything. At this point I am just trying to get the car to turn on the A/C.

[2drSE-i]

Just found the electrical troubleshoot page in the manual, let me play with that for a bit. Feel free to post help though!

[nswst8]

Its Freeze 12, 12oz cans. Could you rephrase that test for me? Did you mean put 12v to the fan positive and ground the low pressure 2p connector, and then the fan should come on? We were using guages but i don't remember pressures or anything. At this point I am just trying to get the car to turn on the A/C.

You can do it this way. I just usually run wires from the battery to the fan, it doesn't matter which wire to which pole. It's just to see if it is in fact a dead fan motor.

A/C trouble shooting flow chart is on 23-8 in the manual. This where I found the solution for my problem.

[2drSE-i]

Fan motors are fine. Jumped the pressure switch connector and they both fired right up.
I then jumped the Diode in the prescribed fashion according to the shop manual, and neither the fan or compressor kicked on. This leads me to the compressor clutch relay, which i CANNOT get apart. I'm taking a break

[Vinny]

Just a thought for ya. Its a binary pressure switch which means it kills the system if the pressure is to high or too low. If you have 36oz of freon in the system not to mention any excess air that was in the system if you didnt pull a vacuum on it you are over pressurized. If its over pressurized and you bypass jumper the pressure switch the compressor and fans will turn on.

I'm not anywhere near the electrical manual so i couldnt tell you whats what as far as the order. Its hard to explain it on here easier to walk someone through the troubleshooting verbally. I can tell you 36oz is way too much like between 9 and 14 oz too much depending on if you go by 75% or 90%. Might wanna bleed some off and see what happens, just a thought

[2drSE-i]

GRRR that relay is upsetting me, I CANNOT get it apart.. I did probe the red wire for power and it had none going to it. Any ideas?

[2drSE-i]

Just a thought for ya. Its a binary pressure switch which means it kills the system if the pressure is to high or too low. If you have 36oz of freon in the system not to mention any excess air that was in the system if you didnt pull a vacuum on it you are over pressurized. If its over pressurized and you bypass jumper the pressure switch the compressor and fans will turn on.

I'm not anywhere near the electrical manual so i couldnt tell you whats what as far as the order. Its hard to explain it on here easier to walk someone through the troubleshooting verbally. I can tell you 36oz is way too much like between 9 and 14 oz too much depending on if you go by 75% or 90%. Might wanna bleed some off and see what happens, just a thought

Hmm thanks for the input. I sware i read somewhere last year it would take 3-4 cans of r12. I will have to go to my buddies house to bleed some of that off. We put a vacuum on it for 2 hours because the system had been open/exposed for so long. Not to mention we were working on the saturn to get it ready for the meet. I will try that and let you guys know. If that is the problem then i will be SOOO relieved.

The only thing that makes me think that isn't the only problem is that the compressor does not come on when jumping the pressure switch. Nor did jumping the diode, so really all thats left to check is the compressor clutch relay, and the delay switch (I'm hoping not). It could be something simple as a nicked wire, which would suck to find.

[2drSE-i]

Shop manual says 23-26oz of r12, so I'm still overcharged by 10-13oz.

[Vinny]

I put all the numbers in the FAQ's years ago. 134a you use between 75 and 90% of the r12 numbers. if I remember right all the years are the same except the 89 which is like 30oz for some reason. I never figured out why so I always stayed at the 23-26. you wanna add between 17 and 23 I think I always went about 20 because its the middle .

With a system that was down for that long who knows what all could be wrong with it and if your ever serviced who knows what could have been damaged in the process. I knew there was a reason I hated AC and I'm actually not half bad with it when it breaks.

I'm so not going to OKC to fix your AC. :) Not even if you offer to buy my shrimp enchilladas from cocina de mino, Nino's, or that place i use to like by the airport, San Marcos or whatever it was.

[nswst8]

What are the numbers from the Freeze 12? recommended replacement.

[2drSE-i]

San Marcos is the SHIT!!! I thought i was the only one that knew about that place lol. Oh and freeze 12 is ~90% so probably 20 oz would be ideal. Wish i had actually looked before i wasted 8 bucks on 3 extra cans. I now have enough for a complete recharge i spose. Im thinkin its a broken wire somewhere.

[nswst8]

That's what I thought. Now I cannot tell or suggest that you release some of the freeze12 until you gain the desired pressure, that would be illegal. So, don't do that!

Do not evacuate the system until you find the cause of the non functioning a/c clutch & compressor.

Once you find the problem, then you can balance your system.

[2drSE-i]

Good advice, I appreciate it.

[LX-incredible]

If you bypass the pressure switch and the compressor comes on then there's a problem with the charge or the switch itself...

If you have cooling system issues (bad thermostat, water pump, TW sensor, etc.) the ECU will not allow the compressor to turn on. If you described it correctly and only the sub cooling fan was coming on, there is an issue. The smaller fan should only come on by itself when the car is turned off. If the engine is running, both fans should come on together. Sub fan by itself indicates poor coolant flow or a bad sensor on the bottom of the radiator.

[88LXi68]

I'm so not going to OKC to fix your AC. :) Not even if you offer to buy my shrimp enchilladas from cocina de mino, Nino's, or that place i use to like by the airport, San Marcos or whatever it was.



Come to CT and fix my truck's A/C. Please?

[2drSE-i]

If you bypass the pressure switch and the compressor comes on then there's a problem with the charge or the switch itself...

If you have cooling system issues (bad thermostat, water pump, TW sensor, etc.) the ECU will not allow the compressor to turn on. If you described it correctly and only the sub cooling fan was coming on, there is an issue. The smaller fan should only come on by itself when the car is turned off. If the engine is running, both fans should come on together. Sub fan by itself indicates poor coolant flow or a bad sensor on the bottom of the radiator.

Bypassing the pressure switch turns both fans on, but not the compressor. Sorry for the miscommunication. I've yet to find anything that will start the compressor, other than sending the clutch wire straight to the battery. I think i will start today by checking the red wire before the clutch relay for power.

[Vinny]

Come to CT and fix my truck's A/C. Please?

Sorry I missed you last time I was up. I have a feeling I may be comming up more often until, who knows maybe something permanent

[88LXi68]

Sorry I missed you last time I was up. I have a feeling I may be comming up more often until, who knows maybe something permanent

Now that is interesting! Hope it is for a good reason though...

[Pnem3]

I believe Freeze 12 is a blend of different gases. Being that it is a blend, you will have to evacuate the whole system and start over or else you may be bleeding off the gases disproportionately and changing the blend. If you change the blend then you change the properties of the blend. If the gas that bleeds off first (due to evaporation pressure differences) happens to be the gas that moves the oil then you will be royally screwed. I'm just saying...

If you have overcharged then it is best to start over from scratch.

[2drSE-i]

I believe Freeze 12 is a blend of different gases. Being that it is a blend, you will have to evacuate the whole system and start over or else you may be bleeding off the gases disproportionately and changing the blend. If you change the blend then you change the properties of the blend. If the gas that bleeds off first (due to evaporation pressure differences) happens to be the gas that moves the oil then you will be royally screwed. I'm just saying...

If you have overcharged then it is best to start over from scratch.

Not that i don't believe you or respect your opinion, I believe you have a valid point, but would it not be safe to assume the blend would come out just as evenly as it did from the can?

[Pnem3]

Not that i don't believe you or respect your opinion, I believe you have a valid point, but would it not be safe to assume the blend would come out just as evenly as it did from the can?

No it wouldn't be safe to assume that. In fact, depending on how you charge, as a gas or a liquid, the gas may not come out of the can evenly. Many blended gases have to be charged with the can upside-down so that it is charging as a liquid. Since it is charging as a liquid, the mixture of gases is constant. If it were charged as a gas (can right-side up), then the gas which evaporates first gets charged into the system first. If you are charging the whole can then everything works out in the end whether you charge as a liquid or not. If you are charging just a partial can as a gas, then what is left in the can is only the gas which evaporates at the lowest pressure/temperature. This would throw off the mixture.

As far as bleeding off a bit of gas, you would only be bleeding off the gas that evaporates first since you bleed as a gas not a liquid. This would throw off the mixture.

I have never used Freeze12, my first question would be does it say to charge as a liquid (upside-down). If so, then the reason would be because you need to "move" the gas as a liquid to maintain consistency. If that is the case, then a partial bleed should not be done.

[2drSE-i]

It does say to turn the can upside down (charge as liquid) so I guess your right. Thanks for your knowledge! Welcome to the board by the way! (19 posts over 3 years is pretty low, I'm considering you new :) )

[Pnem3]

Thanks. I post every now and again and should post more. This is a great board and it has saved me more than once.

[2drSE-i]

ok BUMP!

Tryed a new compressor clutch relay, still no compressor start. Next on the electrical troubeshooting guide is the A/C Thermostat. Where the hell is that?? I looked at the shop manual:
http://www.alltelmypics.net/photos/photo02/3c/e1/aed7fd425dcc.jpg
and also the honda part diagram (its number 5)
http://www.alltelmypics.net/photos/photo02/28/d4/28b0a1908189.jpg

no idea where it is or what it looks like....

[outinfrontaccord]

let me know if u fix it i am having the same issues and cant figure it i changed the relay all that comes on is the fan not the compresser

[A18A]

looks like one of those things in the a/c box under the dashboard

[nswst8]

Drop the glove box and mounting bracket, this exposes the 2P connector that will allow you to do a performance test on the thermoswitch, to change it. you'll have to remove and disassemble the evap box. I just did mine.

[2drSE-i]

AAh ok thanks Phil. I hope to GOD i dont have dissassemble that damn box again, but knowing my luck thats my problem...

[2drSE-i]

OK i've followed the shop manuals electrical troublshooting and i CAN NOT get the stupid clutch to engage. Anyone have ideas? Ive tried:

Grounding Bu/R(1) on the pressure switch. Turns both fans on.
Grounding R/Bu on the Diode connector. Nothing happens.
Did not try grounding Y terminal on Clutch Relay, could not get relay apart to do so. I did try another used Relay, same results on other tests.
Grounding Bu/R (1) on the Thermostat connector. Nothing happens. It states that if nothing happens, there is an open in the wire between the thermostat and pressure switch. I wired a wire straight from the pressure switch to the thermostat (Bu/R) outside the car to see if this was the problem, no cigar.
Grounding Bu/R on the A/C switch. Nothing happens
Jumpering Bu/R to G on the A/C switch. Nothing happens.


The next step is to check the blower fan switch. I don't think this is the problem because the blower works just fine. Anyone have any ideas??

[nswst8]

Simple stuff 1st, was the a/c switch engaged? And if you put in 3 cans I'd be concern in there is still freon in the system.

[2drSE-i]

Simple stuff 1st, was the a/c switch engaged?

LOL yes, but i understand why you are asking. My brother used to work for gateway customer support, the number 1 call was "Why isn't my computer working?" "Is your power button turned on?" ".....no...."

[nswst8]

Next check the #5 fuse under the dash. I think that is where the compressor recieves it power from. And then the clutch wire for power.

[2drSE-i]

Next check the #5 fuse under the dash. I think that is where the compressor recieves it power from. And then the clutch wire for power.

Ya know i feel like ive checked it before, but im going out to check again...

[nswst8]

Section 23-10 Flow chart: A/C clutch does not come on.

[2drSE-i]

Ok....please no one ever let me live this down

http://www.alltelmypics.net/photos/photo02/56/d8/e410e461300d.jpg


seriously though, you should see the inside of my car right now. Glovebox is out, heater controls are out, broke my center vents, took half of the dash apart all to find out its a freakin blown fuse. Thats what i get for eyeballing fuses i guess....lesson learned.

[nswst8]

OMG! You are kidding. As my buddy always tells me "You know it's something stupid".

Well, mystery solved. Now enjoy that a/c this summer. After you get everything back together.

[labeledsk8r]

just make sure you check all your wireing since you allready have it all riped out, fusses hardly blow from normal use so there might be a cause for it, or it coulda blown while you were jumping wires testing things, not sure wich. but yeah hoppfully thats all it was. im working on my a/c system right now aswell and god there such a headache

[A18A]

hahahahhahahhahaha

[2drSE-i]

just make sure you check all your wireing since you allready have it all riped out, fusses hardly blow from normal use so there might be a cause for it, or it coulda blown while you were jumping wires testing things, not sure wich. but yeah hoppfully thats all it was. im working on my a/c system right now aswell and god there such a headache

my rear defroster hasnt worked in a couple of years. I've always been told you can tell is blown if theres black stuff where there should be numbers.........ya not the case. It was something stupid.....

[nswst8]

If the clutch was cycling when you charged it in the beginning, then there is a short somewhere. When the compressor ran it overloaded the fuse.

[2drSE-i]

im almost positive the fuse was already blown. the clutch was only engaged because i jumped it off the battery to charge the ac system

[88LXi68]

so does the A/C work now?

[nswst8]

You failed to disclose that in the beginning.

[Vinny]

hahahahhahahhahaha

x2

sorry had to do it.