where are timing belt replacement instructions?

[rebuild]

I thought for sure there would be a 'how to change your timing belt' instructions for an 89 LXi on this site, but I have not found it yet - anyone know? Anyone know how to move crank bolt and how hard is it to do?

Do you have to have car on a rack and use a breaker bar or is it easier than that? Thanks.

[lostforawhile]

I thought for sure there would be a 'how to change your timing belt' instructions for an 89 LXi on this site, but I have not found it yet - anyone know? Anyone know how to move crank bolt and how hard is it to do?

Do you have to have car on a rack and use a breaker bar or is it easier than that? Thanks.

I haven't been able to locate it either, I know it's buried somewhere, rebuild here's the shop manual download link, you can download it section by section, and people here will help you through any problems you may have, the biggest thing you are going to run into is getting the bolt off of the crank pulley. http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual.html

[nswst8]

Unless you have an impact gun it will be difficult for you to loosen the crank bolt. It's not impossible you just need to be creative. This subject has been discussed repeated. You will just need to read through a number of threads to find it.

Wedge a large flathead screwdriver into the flywheel through the timing viewport. Or remove the starter and wedge the screwdriver there.

Insert a large screwdriver into the brake rotor vent slot so it wedges itself against the caliper, have someone apply the brakes and loosen the bolt that way.

Just get creative.

[A18A]

it doesn't make things easier if the person who previously done the cam belt went and put loctite on it either :o 2 metres of leverage makes undoing them easier though lol

[ecogabriel]

Getting the crank pulley bolt out is a b... I tried the "rope" method and the "hydrolock" and both have worked for me. if you google them you'll find about them.

the manuals describe how to do the job. Autozone also has an info repair section that may have instructions for it. Either way follow them to the letter and you'll be OK.

Since you are at it, replace ALL SEALS -crank, cam, and oil pump- It won't add a lot of $ and you won't have to take everything apart again to fix a leak later.

[rebuild]

First of all. thanks for the replies.

I sure wish a good-TB-change-that-you-all-give-thumbs-up-to was on youtube - that would be awesome. Or wouldn't it be cool to have a video collection here? Can one of the pros maybe have someone video them at work?

I didn't know about changing the oil pump gasket - thanks. Which one/s?

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR%20LXI&catcgry4=KL5MT&catcgry5=OIL%20PUMP&vinsrch=null

That is just a gasket swap? or are any gasket sealers or makers? to be used with it? Can the cam and crank seals be pressed into place without a special tool? How do you get the old ones out - spear them with something?

Didn't find hydrolock method but am finding stuff on rope method and leverage through google. Someone said I have hydrolock to look forward to with my headgasket going, but as a way to budge the crank bolt - I did not find that - yet.

A18A - cam BOLT you mean? Is that one hard too?

Should I put anti-seize on the bolts when they go back in or replace the bolts and use anti-seize?

I was trying to get an idea if the job was doable without an impact gun. I may ask a local auto class for help if I need an impact or special tools or big tools. Actually, I can get a shop to just loosen it for me, but I thought I have to turn the engine by hand to get things into position and I didn't know how to do that - isn't that hard to do also? Don't you turn the engine by turning the same crank bolt?

Should I leave compressor belt off if no A/C right now?

If this is doable for me it is going to either be under a shade tree near a car parts place or maybe a school auto shop.

I'll search "crank bolt" and try to find those previous ones you remember.

When you take off the timing cover to start things off - do you put gasket sealer in the corners again before you close it up when you're done?

Thanks everyone.

[rebuild]

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+LXI&catcgry4=KL5MT&catcgry5=CYLINDER+BLOCK+-+OIL+PAN

Do you also replace # 13?

[lostforawhile]

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=ACCORD&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+LXI&catcgry4=KL5MT&catcgry5=CYLINDER+BLOCK+-+OIL+PAN

Do you also replace # 13?

you don't have to, but it usually comes in a kit with the dust seal for the cover, don't buy this stuff from the dealer, get a gates kit from rock auto, make sure you get the kit with belt and tensioner, Honda uses Gates OEM so it's just like factory,only cheaper.

[A18A]

A18A - cam BOLT you mean? Is that one hard too?

i meant cam belt (the belt that drives the cam), just another name for a timing belt. and I also meant putting loctite on the crank pulley bolt, doesn't make future jobs easier lol. sorry for the confusion

[lostforawhile]

i'll sell you the set with the dust cover gasket, and that center piece for ten bucks, it's been in a plastic bag for years. i somehow got two sets instead of one. they last for years if you don't have oil leaks, all they do is keep dust out of the belt area. one piece fits over the lower cover before installation and that flat piece goes in the center of the lower cover. I don't think there was an upper one since it goes under the edge of the valve cover. I can't remember. it also has the timing plug that goes in the timing hole in the tranny. 10 plus 5 for flat rate USPS shipping and i'll get i sent right out to you.

[car6289]

Didn't find hydrolock method but am finding stuff on rope method and leverage through google. Someone said I have hydrolock to look forward to with my headgasket going, but as a way to budge the crank bolt - I did not find that - yet.

I was trying to get an idea if the job was doable without an impact gun. I may ask a local auto class for help if I need an impact or special tools or big tools. Actually, I can get a shop to just loosen it for me, but I thought I have to turn the engine by hand to get things into position and I didn't know how to do that - isn't that hard to do also? Don't you turn the engine by turning the same crank bolt?

If this is doable for me it is going to either be under a shade tree near a car parts place or maybe a school auto shop.

When you take off the timing cover to start things off - do you put gasket sealer in the corners again before you close it up when you're done?

Thanks everyone.

The Rope Trick: as I recall it

Jack front of car up (support with jack stands) remove that f%$&*@# plastic/rubber splash guard thing and the front left tire (easier access to crank pulley)
Remove #1 spark plug.
Rotate crankshaft ccw to get #1 piston rising toward TDC of the compression stroke (intake and exhaust valves closed).
Feed a sufficient amount of 3/8" dia. rope in to the #1 cylinder through the spark plug hole. By sufficient I mean enough rope to stop the piston from reaching TDC on the compression stroke thus allowing you to apply the torque required to loosen the crankshaft pulley bolt (torque is 108 lb-ft) .
I'm an old dog with an old piece of cotton rope, I've been using for this purpose for years. I'm sure poly rope would work as well.

Yes this job is doable for you, just take your time.

Yes, gasket sealer in the corners where the valve cover gasket meets the camshaft end bearing caps (4 places), remove any old sealant before applying new sealant (not very much required). Remember to replace valve cover gasket .

I'd prefer the school auto shop, but a shade tree on a non rainy day would suffice.

[Dr_Snooz]

There aren't specific instructions for the timing belt because it'd look like this:

1. Remove alternator (section 18)
2. Remove PS pump (section 32)
3. Remove A/C compressor (section 28)

Etc., etc. It's about 13 different jobs rolled into one. It's not hard, but it is a lot of work. The easiest way to remember it is to just remove stuff until you can get the timing belt cover off. Replace the belt and then put it all back on.

You'll have a lot better luck with this manual: http://honda.roadpwnage.com/manuals/pages/usdm-accord-1989-full.php

Get old oil seals out by jamming a screwdriver through the soft rubber part and prying out the hard metal part. Use the old seal to drive in the new seal making sure to oil the new seal well. Drive it until it bottoms in the housing.

I'm with Nswst8 on methods for getting the crank bolt out. When I had an AT, I put a 6" impact socket extension partway into the timing light hole. Make sure you use something that won't fall completely into the bell housing, or you'll be dropping the transmission to get it out. Turn the crank bolt until the drive plate wedges against the extension and you can give the crank bolt heck without it turning.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/DSCN2321.jpg

If you have an MT, just put the thing in gear, put a screwdriver (or a hardened steel punch) into the rotor vents and you have the same situation.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/pic0055.jpg

The most important thing in all of this is to make sure that you get both the camshaft and crankshaft at TDC before you put on the new belt. They can move when you have the old one off. When you put the new one on, check again to make sure that both the camshaft and crankshaft are at TDC. They can move when you are putting on the new belt. The best way to get the new belt on is to put the new tensioner on first. Then route the belt through the lower gears and pulleys and walk it over the cam pulley last. Just put it on a couple teeth at a time until you get them all. Start from the spark plug side so that everything stays at TDC.

Finally, some shops change the water pump during a timing belt service too. That adds a few more hours to the job and it's not required. However, if you finish up a timing belt service and the pump starts chattering 1,000 miles later, you'll be pulling a lot of the same stuff apart again to replace it.

[lostforawhile]

There aren't specific instructions for the timing belt because it'd look like this:

1. Remove alternator (section 18)
2. Remove PS pump (section 32)
3. Remove A/C compressor (section 28)

Etc., etc. It's about 13 different jobs rolled into one. It's not hard, but it is a lot of work. The easiest way to remember it is to just remove stuff until you can get the timing belt cover off. Replace the belt and then put it all back on.

You'll have a lot better luck with this manual: http://honda.roadpwnage.com/manuals/pages/usdm-accord-1989-full.php

Get old oil seals out by jamming a screwdriver through the soft rubber part and prying out the hard metal part. Use the old seal to drive in the new seal making sure to oil the new seal well. Drive it until it bottoms in the housing.

I'm with Nswst8 on methods for getting the crank bolt out. When I had an AT, I put a 6" impact socket extension partway into the timing light hole. Make sure you use something that won't fall completely into the bell housing, or you'll be dropping the transmission to get it out. Turn the crank bolt until the drive plate wedges against the extension and you can give the crank bolt heck without it turning.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/DSCN2321.jpg

If you have an MT, just put the thing in gear, put a screwdriver (or a hardened steel punch) into the rotor vents and you have the same situation.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq132/dr_snooz/pic0055.jpg

The most important thing in all of this is to make sure that you get both the camshaft and crankshaft at TDC before you put on the new belt. They can move when you have the old one off. When you put the new one on, check again to make sure that both the camshaft and crankshaft are at TDC. They can move when you are putting on the new belt. The best way to get the new belt on is to put the new tensioner on first. Then route the belt through the lower gears and pulleys and walk it over the cam pulley last. Just put it on a couple teeth at a time until you get them all. Start from the spark plug side so that everything stays at TDC.

Finally, some shops change the water pump during a timing belt service too. That adds a few more hours to the job and it's not required. However, if you finish up a timing belt service and the pump starts chattering 1,000 miles later, you'll be pulling a lot of the same stuff apart again to replace it.it's not that hard to replace the water pump later, you can take off the two bolts holding the top of the lower timing cover, and get access to the one bolt there.

[rebuild]

I have so many questions on this still.

I have a NAPA lifetime warranty water pump on it with about 35k miles on it. I doubt they will let me exchange it before it goes bad so I will skip the WP.

I think I will skip that dust cover too. I'm more concerned with oil leaks that can spray around and get on the timing belt.

Can leave A/C compressor belt off since I can't use the A/C? Is it better to leave it off when not using it for long periods of time?

For the oil pump gasket (or o-rings) I should also replace - which one/s? Any sealant needed? or clean oil?
http://www.hondapartsnow.com/online/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?catalogID=31&productID=5&yearID=28&doorID=4&gradeID=72&areaID=2&transmissionID=3&originID=-1&colorLabelIDs=-1&colorLabelID=-1&sectionID=1&idAndImageID=5605%20458973&isBigPicture=False&pageName=Oil%20Pump
#4, #11, #9?
When the oil pump is out, can you reach in and change the little #10 o-ring?

Are you supposed to drain oil first - does it spew out when changing the cam and crank seals (and oil pump gasket)?

How do you get the cam pulley bolt off to change the seal if it moves freely?

You have to clean everything in there like any oil in each of the indentations of the cam pulley and the crankshaft timing belt pulley - correct?

Do you have to take the engine mount partially apart to get the new belt in?
If so do you have to support the engine while doing it?

CRANK DIRECTIONS/CRANK BOLT DIRECTIONS
I know the crank bolt has a bad reputation so I am planning to have a shop break it loose. Is it also hard to turn it to TDC? Do you need a breaker bar or lots of leverage to turn it to TDC? Are you tightening the bolt when you turn it CCW?

I have that manual but can't find real TB instructions just diagrams pp 6-18 through 6-20 and 5-7 for other belts.

When you put the new TB on, do you offset it by 3 'cogs' and then when you tighten it up on the right side it takes up the slack and everything ends up in position?

Should I have a replacement spring #5 handy?
http://www.hondapartsnow.com/online/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?catalogID=31&productID=5&yearID=28&doorID=4&gradeID=72&areaID=2&transmissionID=3&originID=-1&colorLabelIDs=-1&colorLabelID=-1&sectionID=1&idAndImageID=5603%20458971&isBigPicture=False&pageName=Camshaft%20-%20Timing%20Belt

Oh - the valve cover gasket - sealant is Honda-Bond or Permatex something or other - what exactly to use and also use some on the underside of the grommets?

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/276/atk519a1.jpg

That splashguard was on my nerves too. I took it off a long time ago and have no idea where it is.

[A18A]

Are you supposed to drain oil first - does it spew out when changing the cam and crank seals (and oil pump gasket)?
it would most likely make things easier to drain the oil first, might as well change it while it's out too

How do you get the cam pulley bolt off to change the seal if it moves freely?
with the valve cover off, you should notice on the camshaft a hex shaped thing, you put a spanner on that to hold it still, or just wedge a screw driver through the cam pulley to hold it still

You have to clean everything in there like any oil in each of the indentations of the cam pulley and the crankshaft timing belt pulley - correct?
yes, you don't want any oil or dirt or shit to get on the belt

Do you have to take the engine mount partially apart to get the new belt in?
yup

If so do you have to support the engine while doing it?
yes, a jack under the motor to hold it will do the job

CRANK DIRECTIONS/CRANK BOLT DIRECTIONS
I know the crank bolt has a bad reputation so I am planning to have a shop break it loose. Is it also hard to turn it to TDC? Do you need a breaker bar or lots of leverage to turn it to TDC? Are you tightening the bolt when you turn it CCW?
it's not hard, you put the crank bolt on & just tighten it enough so you can turn it anti-clockwise without it breaking loose. i'd recommend feeling how hard it is to turn anticlockwise before you break it loose just so you know how tight to tighten it

When you put the new TB on, do you offset it by 3 'cogs' and then when you tighten it up on the right side it takes up the slack and everything ends up in position?
yes, this is an important step. i failed to do this when i installed mine, and the belt wasn't tensioned properly & was just flapping around hitting the palstic covers making lots of noise. once i tensioned it like the manual said, it stopped flapping around

Should I have a replacement spring #5 handy?
http://www.hondapartsnow.com/online/Page_Product/PartDetail.aspx?catalogID=31&productID=5&yearID=28&doorID=4&gradeID=72&areaID=2&transmissionID=3&originID=-1&colorLabelIDs=-1&colorLabelID=-1&sectionID=1&idAndImageID=5603%20458971&isBigPicture=False&pageName=Camshaft%20-%20Timing%20Belt
it's not really neccesary, the spring is only there for when you tension the belt, once you tighten the tensioner bolt, the spring doesn't do anything

Oh - the valve cover gasket - sealant is Honda-Bond or Permatex something or other - what exactly to use and also use some on the underside of the grommets?
dunno, but just make sure all the mating surfaces are completely clean and dry of oil before putting it back together, otherwise it will most likely leak. applies to most things actually

hope this helps y0

[rebuild]

Yes it does help - thanks.

You mean a floor jack - correct? I couldn't support the engine well enough with my little car jack - right?

I still need a big long wrench to turn the crank though - correct - a regular size one is not big enough?

It it turns out I need it higher in the air than I can get it with my car jack, then I am going to wait (and hope it doesn't break) and ask an automotive class for help.

[A18A]

considering a normal little car jack can hold up a car, it will have no problems holding the side of the motor ;)

you dont need a big wrench to turn the crank, you should be able to turn the crank over without much effort using just a regular ratchet. to make things easier, turn the wheels all the way to the left (or just take off the wheel all together) for easy access

[rebuild]

Just touch the jack to the oil pan and up it goes or do I need to protect the oil pan with some wood or something? I need to look at that mount and see how it comes apart.

[A18A]

yeah i'd recommend a bit of wood between the jack & oil pan, just so you don't add any new dents/scratches to it. jack it up with the mount in place just enough so the jack takes the weight of the motor (when it starts to move upwards), then take out the 2 14mm bolts from the top of the mount, and loosen that one on the side of the mount (that goes through the car) and you should be able to pivot that mount out of the way. or you could just remove that mount completely

[Civic Accord Honda]

listen to a18a he knows his shit! he has torn down and put back together multiple 3gees atleast 120 times in the past so many years

[lostforawhile]

is there anyone near this guy who could help him? I think he could do it with help, but he doesn't have any mechanical knowledge, If he had someone to help him who knows what they are doing, it would be much easier, i'm afraid he's going to forget to do something most people here know, and make a mess out of the engine. not putting him down, but after reading the entire thread, he needs help