Fixed Head gasket and now one cylinder is low?>?>?

[Haxxorz]

I need some advice here guys. I just spend the last 5 days tearing off the head and getting a head gasket kit and putting everything back, redoing the timing and blah blah blah. Tonight I just finished it all with a friend aaaaaand it was idling really rough when we got it running. Did a compression test and the third cylinder was only at 70psi the rest were around 130ish. No bueno!!
While it was running I took out the spark plug to the affected cylinder and it kept going. didn't even die. The cylinders were sealed, it wasn't dropping after the compression test so i really doubt there's a leak.

Any ideas here? Could the problem go deeper into the engine>? Like rings and stuff? ughhh I want my accord back to good running condition. :crying:

[carotman]

check the timing belt alignment.

[stat1K]

yeah if the timing is off one or more cylinders would be opening the valves at the wrong time.

more than likely your old engine is old.

probably a ring isn't seating in that cylinder or you have some burned up valve seals.

[stat1K]

The cylinders were sealed, it wasn't dropping after the compression test so i really doubt there's a leak.



had some trouble trying to figure out what you meant here...

clearly you have low compression in that cylinder, which would mean there IS a leak and air cannot compress more than 70psi... try doing a ring treatment and testing again after that...

[nswst8]

It's a little late for my 2 cents. Anytime I have to go after a head gasket I always replace the rings. I also inspect the bearings. There is no better time to do this then when you have the head off.

You will have to put air in the cylinder to determine where your leak is. Otherwise known as a leak down test. You can modify an old spark plug so that you can attach an air hose to. Or see if you can rent a leak down tester.

[Legend_master]

What was the reason for the head gasket change? Did the car ever over heat, before the change happened?

[Haxxorz]

Almost certain my timing is good. My friend help me make sure it was TDC while we reassembled the engine. And yeah the reason the Head Gasket melted a bit is because it overheated, My thermostat went bad while I was in town but I didn't realize the thermostat until later and I drove it while it was hot (kicking myself right now) I'm pretty sure that's what caused it. But the head was totally okay and the head gasket was just melted in one spot so it wasn't too crazy.

What I meant Stat1k was that my head gasket was sealed because only one cylinder was bad. if say two adjacent ones were low i'd assume the gasket didn't seat itself properly and therefore leaking.

I'm assuming a ring treatment would require taking off the head again... Ughh I'm so done right now haha.

[nswst8]

Leak down test! This is the sure way to determine what the problem is.

When you put air in the cylinder with that cylinder at TDC a leak down test will tell what is the problem.

Hissing out of the oil dip stick, probably rings.

Hising out of the oil filler cap, valves, valve seals.

Hissing out of the tail pipe, exhaust valves.

Any of the above in combination, and you should have address this when you had the head off.

[stat1K]

no ring treatment is an additive you run in the motor that removes build up and coats the cylinder walls and pistons/rings to restore compression.

not sure if it would give you 60psi to bring the cylinder back to normal, but really a leak down is your best bet at identifying where the problem is and correcting it.

[nswst8]

A honda master mechanic recommended to me once that "Engine restore" is a option to help restore cylinder compression after my leak down test revealed the #3 cylinder was leaking. This was back in the 90s and I have yet to replace the rings in this engine.

But nothing beats new rings.

[CzEcHy]

Engine Restore good stuff, I used it for the first time half a year ago and I had some major pick-up and very noticeable power increase..


Guess I had some leaking compression in a ring or something.

[Legend_master]

Leak down test! This is the sure way to determine what the problem is.

When you put air in the cylinder with that cylinder at TDC a leak down test will tell what is the problem.

Hissing out of the oil dip stick, probably rings.

Hising out of the oil filler cap, valves, valve seals.

Hissing out of the tail pipe, exhaust valves.

Any of the above in combination, and you should have address this when you had the head off.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Definitely the place to start. So Haxxorz, you say the head was ok. Was that based on a visual inspection, or did you have it pressure tested when it was off the car? Did you have the head milled before re-installing it?

[Haxxorz]

Yeah LM I took the head down to a machine shop and them re-milled the surface for the block. I took him the gasket too and the machinist identified where it had melted a little bit causing a leak. He said that was the problem and im not sure if he pressure tested it, he seemed pretty certain it was okay.

Thanks nswst8, i'll definitely try that today.
Do you think Engine Restore will fix the problem i'm having?

My friend had an idea of putting a tiny bit of new motor oil into the spark plug hole of where the 3rd cylinder was. because it increases the amount of compression, it went from 70 to 150 lol. (Only a teaspoon of oil) But the really rough idle went away immediately and it was fine. We took it for a test drive and it was okay but i think the oil burned off and it started dying on me when i put in the clutch. yay! /sarcasm

I'll update you guys when i do the leak down test

[stat1K]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Definitely the place to start. So Haxxorz, you say the head was ok. Was that based on a visual inspection, or did you have it pressure tested when it was off the car? Did you have the head milled before re-installing it?

I had the same question, was this checked or just assuming from visual inspection? while checkin visually can reveal noticeable problems, without t-squaring the head to check for warpage or pressure checked like you metion here, there is no way to know if a head is "ok." also, if the head was overheated you could easily burn up a valve seal and have caused leaking in this fashion.

[nswst8]

Yeah LM I took the head down to a machine shop and them re-milled the surface for the block. I took him the gasket too and the machinist identified where it had melted a little bit causing a leak. He said that was the problem and im not sure if he pressure tested it, he seemed pretty certain it was okay.

Thanks nswst8, i'll definitely try that today.
Do you think Engine Restore will fix the problem i'm having?

My friend had an idea of putting a tiny bit of new motor oil into the spark plug hole of where the 3rd cylinder was. because it increases the amount of compression, it went from 70 to 150 lol. (Only a teaspoon of oil) But the really rough idle went away immediately and it was fine. We took it for a test drive and it was okay but i think the oil burned off and it started dying on me when i put in the clutch. yay! /sarcasm

I'll update you guys when i do the leak down test

I'd definately try the Engine restore, don't expect 100% results. But definately worth a try. Like I said before my #3 is leaking as well has been for as long as I have owned the car (1992)

[stat1K]

yeah the motor oil is a temp fix for sure.

[Dr_Snooz]

If compression rises when you add oil, that would tend to indicate bad rings, which really sucks.

[ecogabriel]

If compression rises when you add oil, that would tend to indicate bad rings, which really sucks.

x2

Incidentally, a piston ring replacement is not that difficult. If the cylinder walls do not show noticeable wear you may get good results

[Dr_Snooz]

x2

Incidentally, a piston ring replacement is not that difficult. If the cylinder walls do not show noticeable wear you may get good results

How do you figure? Seems to me if the rings are gone, it's time for an overhaul, which is the polar opposite of "not difficult."

[rc00netzero]

Seems to me if the rings are gone, it's time for an overhaul, which is the polar opposite of "not difficult."

Dr Snooz - what seems hard for one person may not seem hard to another.. Some guys really LOVE working on cars. I do too (sometimes) although I liked it more when I was younger :) . My coworkers thought I was crazy to try to fix my AC ( but I have cold air now for <$100) :D

Of course if replacing the piston rings is "not difficult" - not sure what WOULD be "difficult" (replacing seat upholstery?) Even an "in car" replacement (if that is possible on 3g) is a fair bit of work.

[Bluntman]

If compression rises when you add oil, that would tend to indicate bad rings, which really sucks.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Haxxorz]

Dr Snooz - what seems hard for one person may not seem hard to another.. Some guys really LOVE working on cars. I do too (sometimes) although I liked it more when I was younger :) . My coworkers thought I was crazy to try to fix my AC ( but I have cold air now for <$100) :D

Of course if replacing the piston rings is "not difficult" - not sure what WOULD be "difficult" (replacing seat upholstery?) Even an "in car" replacement (if that is possible on 3g) is a fair bit of work.

LOL at the upholstery. Yeah, I needed it for the 4th of July weekend so I didn't take it in to get it looked at but now its at a friend's mechanic shop because after the hours I put into replacing the head gasket for the first time, I kinda was done working on it. Other than a rough idle and noticeably less power, the car ran fine.
He's going to try and loosen the rings with some 'de-oxidizer' or something along those lines. We'll see what happens by tomorrow.

[Legend_master]

LOL at the upholstery. Yeah, I needed it for the 4th of July weekend so I didn't take it in to get it looked at but now its at a friend's mechanic shop because after the hours I put into replacing the head gasket for the first time, I kinda was done working on it. Other than a rough idle and noticeably less power, the car ran fine.
He's going to try and loosen the rings with some 'de-oxidizer' or something along those lines. We'll see what happens by tomorrow.


The only problem I see with that statement is that you don't want the rings to be loose. That's your problem in the first case, you want the rings to be tight, so they will create compression.

[nswst8]

How many miles on the car? And with that question, how well have you taken care of the car. Lack of regular maintenance can and will always leave you in a pickle when you least expect it.

Good luck with the de-oxidizer, he is hoping that it is only sticky rings.

[Haxxorz]

Miles currently on the car: 170k-ish
Its been very well maintained, records dating back to 1992, with regular oil changes, timing belt, suspension etc.

Soooo, the mechanic got back to me today and the fluid he put through the cylinders to de-sticky the rings didn't raise it like he wanted. He probed down the cylinders and he said they were warped. At this point he suggested just swapping in another engine A20A1, He found one that only had 90k on it and he could swap it all in and run for $2,000. Any suggestions?
I was considering doing another swap instead of a A20A1, but I just purchased a header for this engine >_<

I'm going to College in less than 2 months and I need a car so I need to make a decision fast.

[nswst8]

That is a "PREMIUM" charge. I would just consider buying the engine from him and dropping it in myself. Or locate one. There were some on ebay fully rebuilt for like $700.

Depending on how much you have invested thus far is the only way you will be able to justify keeping it or selling it. Personally, I'd find another engine.

[2oodoor]

yah i would check the valve timing again, make sure to line up the T mark on the flywheel and not the painted marks
also did you check rocker arm adjustments, also would need to be in correct time to do that too

with that low mileage, the bottom end should be good to go, mine still had factory hone marks at over 300k miles
these motors are durable, and can survive a few head jobs usually before bottom end needs anything although it is a good idea on most inline engines to do rings along with head gasket (in frame rebuild)