Ignition componets

[Xaisk]

Ive been searching on google and yahoo for the past 2 days with little luck, looking for a hi performance distributor. I have found a few ignition coils, but do they produce Hi perf distributor caps for the A20?

[Pico]

but do they produce Hi perf distributor caps for the A20?

No

[Xaisk]

hmm.. im going to have trouble with this one haha.

I dont know how much luck im going to have with this but I am gunna start by checking bolt on patterns and compatibility between other motors.

Ive actually came across books and guides that teach you to coil and modify/create dizzys. That will be my next step.

I could try to call a company like MSD to try and get them to create a set for the A20A but I dont think they will. If so I think it would be like the Bisimoto group buy things. I think if they agreed to it, it would be ridiculously overpriced, but who knows?

any recommendations?

[lostforawhile]

hmm.. im going to have trouble with this one haha.

I dont know how much luck im going to have with this but I am gunna start by checking bolt on patterns and compatibility between other motors.

Ive actually came across books and guides that teach you to coil and modify/create dizzys. That will be my next step.

I could try to call a company like MSD to try and get them to create a set for the A20A but I dont think they will. If so I think it would be like the Bisimoto group buy things. I think if they agreed to it, it would be ridiculously overpriced, but who knows?

any recommendations?
there was someone working on an adapter for a later dizzy, but it never got finished, the honda ones are pretty good, but the later model ones are better , i would like to see someone do a crank triggered coil on plug setup. that would be the best option

[Xaisk]

I dont know too much about the science of the distributor. Just that it seperates the electric signal and sends it into the engine to detonate the fuel.

Getting down technical, If you bought a MSD kit, would you receive a new dizzy? or would you just get the cap to fit in place of your old one on the stock dizzy?

If it is just a stock dizzy with an enhanced cap, we could fit these on.



But that all relys on us having some sort of adaptor that will make a 90s dizzy fit on the A20.

The guy who was making an adaptor.. was it a forum person or a company?

[Dr_Snooz]

Our dizzies are feeling their age. Finding a good rebuilt stock distributor is hard enough. Getting something hi performance is near impossible. You really have two choices. One is to go with the OBD1 swap. This involves making a 4g distributor work on our cars. I haven't looked into it at all, but I think it involves a lot of wiring changes. Getting the distributor to fit is the biggest challenge. There is a lot about OBD1 conversions floating around here. Just have to search. A lot of the tuners on here have done the conversion, and love it. The other choice is to do an EDIS conversion. This involves removing the distributor entirely and going with a crank-fired electronic ignition. The biggest challenge here is driving around with a laptop and getting the fuel maps right. This is still in the R&D stages to a great degree. Cygnus x-1 is the EDIS guru. Not many people have done it, but those who have report great things. There is a lot of info floating around the web about EDIS conversions. Just search for "megajolt" or "EDIS." I would go with EDIS myself. Distributors are just so 19th century. Having an over-complicated mechanical Rube Goldberg contraption distributing spark is just unseemly.

[lostforawhile]

I dont know too much about the science of the distributor. Just that it seperates the electric signal and sends it into the engine to detonate the fuel.

Getting down technical, If you bought a MSD kit, would you receive a new dizzy? or would you just get the cap to fit in place of your old one on the stock dizzy?

If it is just a stock dizzy with an enhanced cap, we could fit these on.


But that all relys on us having some sort of adaptor that will make a 90s dizzy fit on the A20.

The guy who was making an adaptor.. was it a forum person or a company?

person, he was moving along,then got locked up or something, not sure what happened

[MessyHonda]

our stock distributors are good if the car is stock...once you add performance parts you will need to upgrade the fuel/ timing management so thats why we upgrade to OBD1 because you can chip the ecu and have more control. the plates do exist lostforawhile cyrius from prelude power has them...they are around 300 bucks and lx-incredible has the harness for a easy painless swap

[A18A]

wait wat?? $300 just to bolt a newer honda dizzy to a a20?

[lostforawhile]

our stock distributors are good if the car is stock...once you add performance parts you will need to upgrade the fuel/ timing management so thats why we upgrade to OBD1 because you can chip the ecu and have more control. the plates do exist lostforawhile cyrius from prelude power has them...they are around 300 bucks and lx-incredible has the harness for a easy painless swapI was thinking of the other guy on here who was building one, then got fired/locked up, whatever happened :rolleyes:

[Xaisk]

300$ for that is very steep.

Does the LXI PGM-FI come stock with OBD-1? If not, we can still upgrade that specific dizzy to OBD-1 and chip it for megajolt or some other type of controller right? I remember something about being able to tune the timing for your RPMs in increments of 500.. EX: 500 RPM can be timed to a certain time then you can set 1000 and 1500 2000.. ETC. That sounds EXTREMELY accurate when you get down too it.

[lostforawhile]

300$ for that is very steep.

Does the LXI PGM-FI come stock with OBD-1? If not, we can still upgrade that specific dizzy to OBD-1 and chip it for megajolt or some other type of controller right? I remember something about being able to tune the timing for your RPMs in increments of 500.. EX: 500 RPM can be timed to a certain time then you can set 1000 and 1500 2000.. ETC. That sounds EXTREMELY accurate when you get down too it.

it's not obd1, all this has been tried, the stock dizzy can't be upgraded it has to be replaced with a different one

[Xaisk]

Hmm.. How hard would it be to make a mount for it? I need to get one so I can look at the differences. (one of the 4g ones.)

[Pico]

SEARCH....
4G Adaptor (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62521)

[Xaisk]

Haha tryed to search that but I used different words that didnt produce the same results. My search results always show the threads in the technical help section too.

[Pico]

Haha tryed to search that but I used different words that didnt produce the same results. My search results always show the threads in the technical help section too.
No worries.
Hopefully that link will help you out.

[MessyHonda]

wait wat?? $300 just to bolt a newer honda dizzy to a a20?

yeah...i spent around that much...but i already had a moded distributor and plate

[cygnus x-1]

there was someone working on an adapter for a later dizzy, but it never got finished, the honda ones are pretty good, but the later model ones are better,


The guy who was making an adaptor.. was it a forum person or a company?


person, he was moving along,then got locked up or something, not sure what happened


Actually we did finally get it finished but it took awhile. It was an idea started by LX-Incredible who did all the initial design work, then another guy started working on making a prototype but never finished it. He kinda disappeared and after awhile I took on making a prototype and eventually some finished parts. I do still have a few sets available.





i would like to see someone do a crank triggered coil on plug setup. that would be the best option

Been there, done that. It's part of my Megasquirt conversion and it wasn't trivial by any means. It uses the same 36-1 crank wheel as the EDIS systems but also adds a cam sensor to detect which half of the cycle the crank is on. Essentially it signals the approach of the #1 cylinder TDC.

My insane fuel injection conversion thread is over on PP. It's a long and meandering project that seems to never end because I keep coming up with new modifications. Although I don't have any more mods planned for the Megasquirt or the ignition for the foreseeable future. Hmm, I think that might be a first.

Project: Fuel Injection conversion for '87 DX - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums (http://preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268263&highlight=conversion)





I dont know too much about the science of the distributor. Just that it seperates the electric signal and sends it into the engine to detonate the fuel.


Essentially yes. Although in the case of a mechanical distributor (mechanical and vacuum advance) it also takes care of getting the timing (advance) right based on the engines operating conditions. Newer distributors ('90s Hondas for example) *distribute* the spark to the correct cylinder but the timing of the spark is controlled by the ECU. Modern engines don't have distributors at all and are completely electronic, making them immune to mechanical wear and the associated timing inaccuracies. Electronic systems also allow for more accuracy and adjustability in order to squeak out the most performance and fuel economy.




Getting down technical, If you bought a MSD kit, would you receive a new dizzy? or would you just get the cap to fit in place of your old one on the stock dizzy?

No and no. Most of the MSD boxes only take the place of the stock ignitor but some of them also have additional functionality.




If it is just a stock dizzy with an enhanced cap, we could fit these on.



But that all relys on us having some sort of adaptor that will make a 90s dizzy fit on the A20.


You would be just as well off to put on a standard replacement cap from Autozone. The cap really doesn't do anything special.




wait wat?? $300 just to bolt a newer honda dizzy to a a20?

The idea is to create a completely bolt on solution for doing an OBD1 conversion. It isn't quite as simple as bolting up the new distributor. The distributor has to be rotated to make it line up correctly, which requires an extended distributor-to-cam key and some offsetting of the thermostat housing. Whether or not there's a better/easier/cheaper way to do it I couldn't say. I'm not into OBD1 myself even though I did make the adapter set.




300$ for that is very steep.

As I said, I can't comment on whether it's expensive or not as far as the conversion is concerned. I can tell you that the parts are not trivial to make and I doubt you could get another shop to do them for much cheaper.




Does the LXI PGM-FI come stock with OBD-1?

No.



If not, we can still upgrade that specific dizzy to OBD-1 ...

OBD1 is (essentially) a type of Honda ECU used from '90-'95, so to use one you would need an OBD1 distributor to make it work.



... and chip it for megajolt or some other type of controller right?

Megajolt is something else entirely. Megajolt is a controller that is used in conjunction with Ford's EDIS ignition system (1990s). The EDIS/Megajolt conversion replaces the stock ignition system (including the distributor) entirely with a totally electronic system. It has several advantages including better reliability (no mechanical wear), better accuracy (it's crank timed so timing belt jitter is eliminated), better tuneability (fully programmable by computer, no messing with springs and weights), and a stronger spark than single coil OEM systems (multiple coils are used alternately, allowing each one to charge longer). To use this you dump the distributor entirely and fit a trigger wheel to the crank pulley that gets read by a sensor. The EDIS module reads the crank sensor and fires the coils based on what the Megajolt tells it the timing advance should be. The Megajolt uses a timing signal from the EDIS module and its own built in MAP sensor to figure out what the timing advance should be.




I remember something about being able to tune the timing for your RPMs in increments of 500.. EX: 500 RPM can be timed to a certain time then you can set 1000 and 1500 2000.. ETC. That sounds EXTREMELY accurate when you get down too it.


That's the biggest advantage of Megajolt/EDIS or OBD1. They both allow for electronic control of ignition timing. Megajolt/EDIS is a completely aftermarket (non-Honda anyway) system that is all electronic. OBD1 still uses a distributor but it's a Honda specific system that also controls fueling. If you want tuneable fuel injection and timing then OBD1 (or another aftermarket ECU) is the way to go. If you want to use carburetors for fueling then Megajolt/EDIS is the way to go.



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[cygnus x-1]

there was someone working on an adapter for a later dizzy, but it never got finished, the honda ones are pretty good, but the later model ones are better,


The guy who was making an adaptor.. was it a forum person or a company?


person, he was moving along,then got locked up or something, not sure what happened


Actually we did finally get it finished but it took awhile. It was an idea started by LX-Incredible who did all the initial design work, then another guy started working on making a prototype but never finished it. He kinda disappeared and after awhile I took on making a prototype and eventually some finished parts. I do still have a few sets available.





i would like to see someone do a crank triggered coil on plug setup. that would be the best option

Been there, done that. It's part of my Megasquirt conversion and it wasn't trivial by any means. It uses the same 36-1 crank wheel as the EDIS systems but also adds a cam sensor to detect which half of the cycle the crank is on. Essentially it signals the approach of the #1 cylinder TDC.

My insane fuel injection conversion thread is over on PP. It's a long and meandering project that seems to never end because I keep coming up with new modifications. Although I don't have any more mods planned for the Megasquirt or the ignition for the foreseeable future. Hmm, I think that might be a first.

Project: Fuel Injection conversion for '87 DX - Honda Prelude Forum : Honda Prelude Forums (http://preludepower.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268263&highlight=conversion)





I dont know too much about the science of the distributor. Just that it seperates the electric signal and sends it into the engine to detonate the fuel.


Essentially yes. Although in the case of a mechanical distributor (mechanical and vacuum advance) it also takes care of getting the timing (advance) right based on the engines operating conditions. Newer distributors ('90s Hondas for example) *distribute* the spark to the correct cylinder but the timing of the spark is controlled by the ECU. Modern engines don't have distributors at all and are completely electronic, making them immune to mechanical wear and the associated timing inaccuracies. Electronic systems also allow for more accuracy and adjustability in order to squeak out the most performance and fuel economy.




Getting down technical, If you bought a MSD kit, would you receive a new dizzy? or would you just get the cap to fit in place of your old one on the stock dizzy?

No and no. Most of the MSD boxes only take the place of the stock ignitor but some of them also have additional functionality.




If it is just a stock dizzy with an enhanced cap, we could fit these on.



But that all relys on us having some sort of adaptor that will make a 90s dizzy fit on the A20.


You would be just as well off to put on a standard replacement cap from Autozone. The cap really doesn't do anything special.




wait wat?? $300 just to bolt a newer honda dizzy to a a20?

The idea is to create a completely bolt on solution for doing an OBD1 conversion. It isn't quite as simple as bolting up the new distributor. The distributor has to be rotated to make it line up correctly, which requires an extended distributor-to-cam key and some offsetting of the thermostat housing. Whether or not there's a better/easier/cheaper way to do it I couldn't say. I'm not into OBD1 myself even though I did make the adapter set.




300$ for that is very steep.

As I said, I can't comment on whether it's expensive or not as far as the conversion is concerned. I can tell you that the parts are not trivial to make and I doubt you could get another shop to do them for much cheaper.




Does the LXI PGM-FI come stock with OBD-1?

No.



If not, we can still upgrade that specific dizzy to OBD-1 ...

OBD1 is (essentially) a type of Honda ECU used from '90-'95, so to use one you would need an OBD1 distributor to make it work.



... and chip it for megajolt or some other type of controller right?

Megajolt is something else entirely. Megajolt is a controller that is used in conjunction with Ford's EDIS ignition system (1990s). The EDIS/Megajolt conversion replaces the stock ignition system (including the distributor) entirely with a totally electronic system. It has several advantages including better reliability (no mechanical wear), better accuracy (it's crank timed so timing belt jitter is eliminated), better tuneability (fully programmable by computer, no messing with springs and weights), and a stronger spark than single coil OEM systems (multiple coils are used alternately, allowing each one to charge longer). To use this you dump the distributor entirely and fit a trigger wheel to the crank pulley that gets read by a sensor. The EDIS module reads the crank sensor and fires the coils based on what the Megajolt tells it the timing advance should be. The Megajolt uses a timing signal from the EDIS module and its own built in MAP sensor to figure out what the timing advance should be.




I remember something about being able to tune the timing for your RPMs in increments of 500.. EX: 500 RPM can be timed to a certain time then you can set 1000 and 1500 2000.. ETC. That sounds EXTREMELY accurate when you get down too it.


That's the biggest advantage of Megajolt/EDIS or OBD1. They both allow for electronic control of ignition timing. Megajolt/EDIS is a completely aftermarket (non-Honda anyway) system that is all electronic. OBD1 still uses a distributor but it's a Honda specific system that also controls fueling. If you want tuneable fuel injection and timing then OBD1 (or another aftermarket ECU) is the way to go. If you want to use carburetors for fueling then Megajolt/EDIS is the way to go.



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[Xaisk]

Ok that cleared up ALOT. Thanks for the well thought out reply. Im actually planning on going PGM-FI myself. Going to head to the junkyard again this weekend to see if they got any 88 or 89 PGM-FIs in. I want the dual stage intake.

I am going to look into some searchs on OBD-1 conversion. Im pretty sure there are plenty of posts in the How To section.

but yes, thanks for the detailed explanation on how megajolt worked, as I was curious. It seems megajolt would be an amazing to go if I still wanted to stay carbed. I want to go FI because in the future I want to do more mods, fit a turbo on.. Heard they dont run very nicely with carbs, at least on the lower end. IE street driving.

(edit) Does PP load really slow for you guys to? I have great internet connection and computer, but PP loads REALLY slow.

Reading all those posts over there got me a little more excited for my conversion.

I hate waiting =(

[cygnus x-1]

Ok that cleared up ALOT. Thanks for the well thought out reply. Im actually planning on going PGM-FI myself. Going to head to the junkyard again this weekend to see if they got any 88 or 89 PGM-FIs in. I want the dual stage intake.

I am going to look into some searchs on OBD-1 conversion. Im pretty sure there are plenty of posts in the How To section.


If you're going to be converting a carbed engine to fuel injection then you should definitely consider OBD1. No matter what, you'll need another distributor and ECU so you might as well get an OBD1 compatible ECU and dizzy. The cost shouldn't be that much more.

If you're good with electronics you could also use an aftermarket ECU like a Megasquirt. That would give you more options for ignition, like a crank fired setup.




but yes, thanks for the detailed explanation on how megajolt worked, as I was curious. It seems megajolt would be an amazing to go if I still wanted to stay carbed. I want to go FI because in the future I want to do more mods, fit a turbo on.. Heard they dont run very nicely with carbs, at least on the lower end. IE street driving.


Turbo is doable with a carb but you'll be on your own for tuning. Carbs just don't have the tuning flexibility that FI does either.




(edit) Does PP load really slow for you guys to? I have great internet connection and computer, but PP loads REALLY slow.

Reading all those posts over there got me a little more excited for my conversion.

I hate waiting =(


Normally it's ok but sometimes it's slow, like it gets stuck or something. But then my internet hasn't been that reliable lately either (stupid Comcast).


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