manualtrans oil question

[wh1skea]

Might be a dumb question, but I'm thinking of adding some Lucas oil additive (1/2 quart proably) when I refill my case after draining it to replace my cv axle. Good idea? Bad idea?

[ecogabriel]

I don't know about the Lucas oil additive, but you may want to check this out

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm

First question is whether you have a problem with the transmission. Assuming that it is not, that you just want some extra piece of mind, a while ago I used this additive for the manual trans on my 93 Civic

http://www.lubegard.com/C-197/LUBEGARD+Gear+Fluid+Supplement

It comes from the same company that makes the additives for auto trans. I got that at NAPA, and I added that to the engine oil I used for that drain and refill. I did not note anything special; the transmission worked fine before and worked fine after. But I would give it credit based on what I saw with the product they sell for the auto trans; a noticeable smoother gear shifting.

Many people in the forum swear by the Honda MTF. If you have a dealer nearby I would suggest getting it. I have used synchromesh in that trans after changing that oil and I can tell it works fine; probably Honda MTF is not that different.

Bottom line: unless you have a problem don't reinvent the wheel and play safe. Get the Honda MTF. You may try what I did as a second best

[wh1skea]

Thanks. Guess it'll be just good ole 10W-30 like the service manual says. I do have a Honda dealer just about 5 miles down the road, but they aren't open on Sunday and I'll need the car for first thing Monday.

[89T]

I read lucas, and that's it. Never ever ever use it in anything you want to keep.

[Bglad420]

HONDA OEM MT Fluid ONLY!

[ecogabriel]

Thanks. Guess it'll be just good ole 10W-30 like the service manual says. I do have a Honda dealer just about 5 miles down the road, but they aren't open on Sunday and I'll need the car for first thing Monday.

You can use the additive I showed you in my post. That will add some gear additives that engine oil does not have but taking care of the brass parts in the transmission too. NAPA sells it if you ask.

[w261w261]

Use what the owner's manual says, or buy Honda MTF and drain and refill. I've been using it since I got the car at 84k (2001). I now have 230k and every gear is fine, so is it the Honda fluid or would 10w-30 been just as good. Beats me, but if I were you I'd go with the Honda stuff.

[Oldblueaccord]

I use Mobil one 10w -30 so if you need something quick that make it too. I got my original trans.


wp

[stat1K]

10w30 is fine but fill through the vss. that's been my understanding. i use penzoil synchromesh in my civic, it does great.

[2ndGenGuy]

Why do you fill through the VSS? How would you know the proper level?

[lostforawhile]

you take out the fill plug on the side of the tranny, get one of those oil spouts with the long plastic hose, stick it in the fill hole and fill it until fluid starts to come out. it can't overfill with the fill plug out, proper level is just on the edge of the plug, you should be able to stick your finger in there, and feel oil

[2ndGenGuy]

Yeah I know how it works through the fill hole. I was just wondering why you'd want to fill through the VSS. He made it seem like it was a good idea, and usually he knows what he's talking about. ;)

[stat1K]

fill through the vss so that you don't underoil any of the gears. i've never been able to get 1.9 qt's into my d-series tranny by filling through the fill hole. i can put 2 qt's in and be done through the vss, takes about 5 minutes.

you ever wonder why most of the accords burn out fifth gear or reverse first? it's from under oiling, lx-incredible has told me about guys who jack up one side of their 4x's just to get more oil in the diff case, similar concept applies here.

[2ndGenGuy]

Makes sense. Thanks. I'll probably do that next time.

[pink_sleeve]

What is the VSS?

[Oldblueaccord]

Its the place where the speedometer cable goes into the trans. Its a sensor on top there that monitors the speed and feeds it back to the ECU. If your cable comes undone you will get a code.


wp

[lostforawhile]

Its the place where the speedometer cable goes into the trans. Its a sensor on top there that monitors the speed and feeds it back to the ECU. If your cable comes undone you will get a code.


wp
the one on top of our transmissions has nothing to do with the vss, it's the govenor for the power steering assist, the vss is in the speedometer head and is driven by the cable from the transmission. even the carb cars have one and the speed sensor amplifier built in, on the carb cars it drives the cruise control and there's a sensor that tells the computer when the car is going over 5 miles an hour

[Oldblueaccord]

Lost your right I got the wrong end of the cable in my mind.


wp

[lostforawhile]

you don't want to be pulling the end of the speedometer gear out of the sensor all the time, it can be hard to get it just right and the clip locked, what you need is one of these, or the type that screws on to the end of the oil bottle. just take out the plug and stick the hose in the hole, when the oil stops running down the funnel it's full, it's going to make some mess when you pull out the hose, but how often do you fill the transmission?
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31TN9R5E26L._SS500_.jpg

[Dr_Snooz]

Nevermind.

[lostforawhile]

Nevermind.

it's just a different kind of vss i guess, most cars today the vss is electronic we have a mechanical one and an electronic one. the mechanical one with the hoses doesn't have any kind of sensors or anything. It regulates pressure to the steering rack, once you are going over about 15 all power assist is cut off. it cuts of gradually up to that speed. It was one of Honda's big innovative ideas. variable assist power steering

[MessyHonda]

HONDA OEM MT Fluid ONLY!

i will only use honda fluid because i ran 5w30 semi blend and our trans didnt like it and when i used the honda fluid it restored it and made it shift good

[Dr_Snooz]

i will only use honda fluid because i ran 5w30 semi blend and our trans didnt like it and when i used the honda fluid it restored it and made it shift good

Can you be more specific?

[Bglad420]

The shifting is cleaner, and it's better for the syncros. When I ran regular oil in mine the shifting was really tight, and just didn't feel right. Honda fluid fixed all that.

[2ndGenGuy]

^ I concur. It might be placebo effect, but I've found that MTF has made a few of my transmissions shift better than with the old oil that was in them. It significantly reduced grinding in my old transmission in the 81. When I first got it, it had slight grinds into 2nd and 3rd. They went away with the MTF for about a year and a half. I'd say it extended the life of the transmission somewhat.

[lostforawhile]

^ I concur. It might be placebo effect, but I've found that MTF has made a few of my transmissions shift better than with the old oil that was in them. It significantly reduced grinding in my old transmission in the 81. When I first got it, it had slight grinds into 2nd and 3rd. They went away with the MTF for about a year and a half. I'd say it extended the life of the transmission somewhat.

it's probably the same type of additive thats in syncromesh, thats another good one, but expensive, they put special friction modifiers in just to make the syncros happy, it's not your imagination, this stuff didn't exist when the car was new

[2ndGenGuy]

it's probably the same type of additive thats in syncromesh, thats another good one, but expensive, they put special friction modifiers in just to make the syncros happy, it's not your imagination, this stuff didn't exist when the car was new

Yep, that sounds about right. I put some Amsoil Syncromesh in my dad's Audi 4000 gearbox, and man what a difference that seemed to make! Also running some sort of Redline MT90, I think, with syncromesh in my Miata. Same thing, way better than regular gear oil.

[MessyHonda]

Can you be more specific?

5th gear got too hot and it got stuck in 5th gear till it cooled down...leasson learned dont use 5w-30 semi synthetic in your 150k trans...this is why i went with the teg geared tranny

[lostforawhile]

5th gear got too hot and it got stuck in 5th gear till it cooled down...leasson learned dont use 5w-30 semi synthetic in your 150k trans...this is why i went with the teg geared tranny

yea the semisynthetic oils don't have enough friction to make the syncros work properly, thats one of the things that confuses people, they need a specific amount of friction to work. Thats why the syncromesh works, it's a friction modified oil. when these transmissions were built, the only thing even close to synthetic oil , were some very expensive motorcycle racing oils. It's the same reason you need special motorcycle oil for bikes with wet clutches. without that oil with the friction modifiers they won't work right.

[wh1skea]

Ok, for now, I just put 10W-30 in it. When I go to replace my oil filter base gasket, I'll drain the trans when I drain the engine (might as well do an oil change while I'm under there), and add Honda MTF to the trans, along with a quality oil for the engine. Any suggestions on oil for an engine with 389,XXX miles?

[Bglad420]

Only use Honda MTF, no engine oil.

[wh1skea]

I get it......Honda MTF > engine oil......BUT, 10W-30 is whats suggested in the Honda Service Manual for these cars, so thats what I used. Considering its my only running vehicle, couldn't exactly wait til the dealership opened on Monday, having to be to work at 8:00 and all.

Next time, I know what to use.

[lostforawhile]

I get it......Honda MTF > engine oil......BUT, 10W-30 is whats suggested in the Honda Service Manual for these cars, so thats what I used. Considering its my only running vehicle, couldn't exactly wait til the dealership opened on Monday, having to be to work at 8:00 and all.

Next time, I know what to use.the Honda fluid came out after the car was built, the original owners manual says to use the engine oil. the syncromesh is good stuff too or the royal purple manual transmission fluid, all of those are excellent alternatives for the engine oil

[lostforawhile]

On this subject has anyone seen the acura transmissions with the oil jet added? it's an auto, but i wonder how that would work on the manuals with a stand alone electric oil pump? you could add a jet to the 5th gear cover and use an rpm switch or some kind of sensor so it knows when the car is in fifth? you would modify an oil drain plug for a fitting and run an oil line from it to the pump. the reason Honda retrofitted the acura transmissions, is the 2nd gear shaft would overheat and fail. it could add a lot of cooling to the fifth gear area

[wh1skea]

main problem I would see would be how to keep the pump from draining the bottom of the case dry. Reservoir maybe? Pump flow rate? Whats the lowest/highest the fluid level can get while the vehicle is running? If I had the time/money I'd definitely be up for trying this out.

[lostforawhile]

if you install an oil jet,thats going to limit the volume of oil flowing through it, the oil is simply going to flow back down to the bottom of the pan, if you install a pickup in a drain plug, there's always going to be oil, as it's the lowest point. you would remove the fifth gear cover, and weld on a fitting for the jet, what it would do is spray oil on the gears.

[Dr_Snooz]

yea the semisynthetic oils don't have enough friction to make the syncros work properly, thats one of the things that confuses people, they need a specific amount of friction to work. Thats why the syncromesh works, it's a friction modified oil. when these transmissions were built, the only thing even close to synthetic oil , were some very expensive motorcycle racing oils. It's the same reason you need special motorcycle oil for bikes with wet clutches. without that oil with the friction modifiers they won't work right.

They sell friction modifier additives at tranny shops. I wonder if regular oil and a friction modifier would have the same effect.


Yep, that sounds about right. I put some Amsoil Syncromesh in my dad's Audi 4000 gearbox, and man what a difference that seemed to make! Also running some sort of Redline MT90, I think, with syncromesh in my Miata. Same thing, way better than regular gear oil.

Dude, when are you going to drop a 5.0 V8 into that Miata? You know you want to.

[AccordEpicenter]

GM Syncromesh FM is the nicest trans oil for hondas ive found hands down, Buttery smooth shifts. Honda MTF is also very good, and I can def feel a difference from MTF vs motor oil, and MTF vs Syncromesh fluid. I would most def stay away from any synthetic motor oil as a trans fill, it doesnt climb gears well and its too slick for the syncros, as they work on friction. The syncromesh is semi synthetic but with the friction modifier in it, it works very well. Lucas is too heavy/thick and tends to foam, so i wouldnt use it in anything I cared about, and ive heard mixed results from other manual trans oils like trick shift and shockproof redline, they might be OK depending on who you talk to. Ive personally put over 100000 miles in the acura TL with the syncromesh fluid and about 30000 miles on the accord with syncromesh fluid, with no long term effects. The only issue with syncromesh ive found is that after 30-40k miles per fill, it gets thinner viscosity wise, and benefits from being changed.

[pink_sleeve]

What are you guys using to get the tranny check bolt out? I tried to take mine out and broke a socket....?

89 Accord DX manual trans

[2ndGenGuy]

Dude, when are you going to drop a 5.0 V8 into that Miata? You know you want to.

Oh man. I was looking into the GM LSx engine swap. Complete swap w/ full chassis bracing only adds 100lbs to the car. With a power to weight ratio guaranteed to kill anything else on the road... oh god drool. Gimme an LSx in 427 cubes, please. :wave:

[AccordEpicenter]

What are you guys using to get the tranny check bolt out? I tried to take mine out and broke a socket....?

89 Accord DX manual trans

are you talking about the filler bolt? Id just leave it in, and pull the speedo sensor and fill it through that hole. I would drain the trans first (if you havent) and then fill it with 2.4 qts.

[pink_sleeve]

Where is the speed sensor located and what tools are required to remove it?

[AccordEpicenter]

i think the speedo sensor is only a single 10mm bolt that holds the speedo sensor in. Its located by the rear trans mount back above the diff near the axles. You should be able to get it from the top, just take the bolt out, wiggle-pull it out and stick a big funnel right in there.

[pink_sleeve]

i think the speedo sensor is only a single 10mm bolt that holds the speedo sensor in. Its located by the rear trans mount back above the diff near the axles. You should be able to get it from the top, just take the bolt out, wiggle-pull it out and stick a big funnel right in there.

Does it have wires coming out of it?

[pink_sleeve]

Ok i think i am looking at it. It appears to have 2 cables or fluid lines possibly? and wires coming out of the top and is pretty much right behing the starter on the tranny correct?

[lostforawhile]

just put a box end wrench on the fill plug, a good one not a cheapo one, and hit the end of the wrench with a hammer, it will come loose

[pink_sleeve]

just put a box end wrench on the fill plug, a good one not a cheapo one, and hit the end of the wrench with a hammer, it will come loose

I tried a breaker bar with a craftsman socket and it split it so i don't see a regular wrench working. Guess i can give it another shot though.

[AccordEpicenter]

Ok i think i am looking at it. It appears to have 2 cables or fluid lines possibly? and wires coming out of the top and is pretty much right behing the starter on the tranny correct?

That should be it.

[wh1skea]

just put a box end wrench on the fill plug, a good one not a cheapo one, and hit the end of the wrench with a hammer, it will come loose

+1

Thats what I did. 17mm closed end wrench + few good whacks with a 20oz. hammer from under the car = fill plug loose.

[Dr_Snooz]

Your socket was probably cracked already. The speedo sensor is a good idea, but how do you know when you've added enough?

[AccordEpicenter]

make sure the trans is drained, then add 2.4-2.5 qts and you should be right where you should be