Electrical problem

[Fedor B.]

He guys.

I have a few small electrical problems.

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1972/img2748lj.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/img2748lj.jpg/)

My electric antenna was not going up and down. (fixed that)
And my dome light (and courtesy lights in doors) are not comming on when door is opened.
I hear you say,"door switch", but i wish it was that simple.
Also the safety indicator is not showing 'door open'.
The light in the trunk is working fine and 'trunk open' is also shown in the indicator.
The dome light is working fine if you turn it on by hand.

What i did so far.
Test fuse 4 and 13 (under hood) and nr. 2 (dash) - fine
Test the domelight - its fine.
Removed the gauge and tested 'black/white' wire between dome and safety indicator - fine. (dome comes on when i connect 'black/white' in connector C-225 to earth).

C-225
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3518/img2742h.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/img2742h.jpg/)

From there on i followed 'green/blue' and 'green/red, the wires from the safety indicator to the door switches. They should have earth when doors are open, but, not.
The wire is fine until the blue connector (C-201/203) under the dash right side from the steering axle.
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/405/img2741u.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/i/img2741u.jpg/)

And when i measure starting at the doorswitch, i measure earth at connector C-301 (next to driverseat) from both left and right doorswitch.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6440/img2740i.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/img2740i.jpg/)

For as far as i can see the main harness is made in 1 piece between connector C-201/203 and connector C-301, and there i measure no connection on the green/blue and green/red doorswitch wires..
What is it that im overlooking!?!
Or is it that my main harness is damaged? All wires are lookinging very original, i mean, it looks (looked) untouched.

Anyone??

[Dr_Snooz]

It looks like everything is fine until you get to the door switches. How are you testing those that they are coming out fine?

[Fedor B.]

It looks like everything is fine until you get to the door switches. How are you testing those that they are coming out fine?

From doorswitch to first connector C-301 all is fine. Put meter in connector on the outside on the far side (on the pic left), when male and female are together. (so the connector is fine as well)
I see Earth yes/no when i push the doorswitch. (and also when my girl pushes the one on the other side)

Doorswitches are fine. Its in the harnes between blue plug 201/203 and 301 where i measure no connection on the wires.

[lostforawhile]

have you added any additional lights to the dome light circuit? if you overload the module it will fail, all the switching of the dome light is done through the safety indicator, the dome light is switched by transistors not directly, all of the wiring for all of the door switches and trunk switch is routed through that module. if you unplug the instrument cluster the dome light won't work. you need to test the door switches at the connector that plugs into the safety indicator. if they test to that point the module is failed. if you know how to solder, you might be able to fix it, if not you need another module. I don't think there are any diodes before the safety indicator, to be sure test the switch circuits with your meter on diode check, not continuity, if there's a diode, it takes a small amount of voltage to overcome it

[Fedor B.]

have you added any additional lights to the dome light circuit? if you overload the module it will fail, all the switching of the dome light is done through the safety indicator, the dome light is switched by transistors not directly, all of the wiring for all of the door switches and trunk switch is routed through that module. if you unplug the instrument cluster the dome light won't work. you need to test the door switches at the connector that plugs into the safety indicator. if they test to that point the module is failed. if you know how to solder, you might be able to fix it, if not you need another module. I don't think there are any diodes before the safety indicator, to be sure test the switch circuits with your meter on diode check, not continuity, if there's a diode, it takes a small amount of voltage to overcome it

I have a full workshop manual, and looked at the safety indicator wiring diagram, I know how to use a meter, i do electrics for a living. :D
The problem starts after the indicator.
I don't measure earth on green/blue and green/red (the wires to the doorswitches connected to the module), behind the module (plug on pic 2, C-225) when door is open.
the wire is fine till the blue plug 201-203. and from the blue plug there is no connection to plug 301 (besides door).
From plug 301 to doorswitch all is fine again.

Thanx for thinking with me.

BTW the door courtesy lights are not in the wiring diagram. And don't know how they are connected. Could it be that these door lights are cousing the problem?

[lostforawhile]

I have a full workshop manual, and looked at the safety indicator wiring diagram, I know how to use a meter, i do electrics for a living. :D
The problem starts after the indicator.
I don't measure earth on green/blue and green/red (the wires to the doorswitches connected to the module), behind the module (plug on pic 2, C-225) when door is open.
the wire is fine till the blue plug 201-203. and from the blue plug there is no connection to plug 301 (besides door).
From plug 301 to doorswitch all is fine again.

Thanx for thinking with me.

BTW the door courtesy lights are not in the wiring diagram. And don't know how they are connected. Could it be that these door lights are cousing the problem?i think the courtesy lights actually use the door switches directly, not sure what fuse they are on.

[Nafs Asdf]

Have you looked at the door switches themselves? I had a problem with some of mine being rusted so they didn't close the circuit like they should when you open the door. I just took them out and cleaned them up a bit and they started working again.

EDIT: didn't see you had tested the switches already... my bad.

[Ayeobe]

Ahhh damn, i gotta whip the diagram out for this, huh? I cant tell what your talking about withought a diagram... Elsewise, i'd be happy to help. I'll re-read this tomorow, with the shop manual from the forum open..

[Fedor B.]

Ahhh damn, i gotta whip the diagram out for this, huh? I cant tell what your talking about withought a diagram... Elsewise, i'd be happy to help. I'll re-read this tomorow, with the shop manual from the forum open..

Thanx. I worked on it for 3 evenings. Normaly electrics are no problem for me. This time its different......

To all: I never saw a wire harness on the inside, is there any splitting up of wires going on inside the harness, or are all split connections made on plugs??

Sorry for my shitty english, hope you understand...

[lostforawhile]

Thanx. I worked on it for 3 evenings. Normaly electrics are no problem for me. This time its different......

To all: I never saw a wire harness on the inside, is there any splitting up of wires going on inside the harness, or are all split connections made on plugs??

Sorry for my shitty english, hope you understand...

if the aerodeck is wired like the hatchback, there's a part of the dome light harness that runs across the front of the back seat, it will have a plastic tube over it, on the hatch it's clipped to the raised sheet metal that forms the rear seat bottom/gas tank area. I'vee noticed several oddball things in the hatchback wiring that are different then the sedan, i would almost guess the aerodeck and hatch have the same, or nearly the same body harness.

[Fedor B.]

if the aerodeck is wired like the hatchback, there's a part of the dome light harness that runs across the front of the back seat, it will have a plastic tube over it, on the hatch it's clipped to the raised sheet metal that forms the rear seat bottom/gas tank area. I'vee noticed several oddball things in the hatchback wiring that are different then the sedan, i would almost guess the aerodeck and hatch have the same, or nearly the same body harness.

Your right. The wire of the passenger door switch runs to the left side to plug C-301. This piece is of harness is fine. And easy to reach.
My problem is somewhere deep under the dash i believe.........

Like I said, the door courtesy lights are not in the wiring diagram. And don't know how they are connected.

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9859/safetyindicatoraccord.jpg (http://img836.imageshack.us/i/safetyindicatoraccord.jpg/)

[thegreatdane]

Hello mate, very lovely Aerodeck you have!

To fix your issue you have to unwrap the harness in the left direction on this picture: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6440/img2740i.jpg

The wire you are having issues with is split into more wires with a wire connector inside that harness. So trace your wire in the left direction and unwrap the harness until you find that split connector (wrapped in blue tape i believe).
The wires will be corroded and broken inside this connector.

If i remember correctly there is another split connection inside that part of the harness. You should inspect that one for corrosion as well. I dont remember which part of the electrics that connector would be related to.

The issue causing this problem is that moist and water enters the wiring harness underneath the front left fender above the wheel well. The sleeve of the harness does not seal properly around the harness in that location, so you may want to get in there and tape it up to avoid problems in the future.

Dont forget to take a picture of the corroded connection :)

edit: it's funny, I used to have the exact same signature picture as you a long time ago, so I get flashbacks when I see you signature.

[Fedor B.]

Hello mate, very lovely Aerodeck you have!

To fix your issue you have to unwrap the harness in the left direction on this picture: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6440/img2740i.jpg

The wire you are having issues with is split into more wires with a wire connector inside that harness. So trace your wire in the left direction and unwrap the harness until you find that split connector (wrapped in blue tape i believe).
The wires will be corroded and broken inside this connector.

If i remember correctly there is another split connection inside that part of the harness. You should inspect that one for corrosion as well. I dont remember which part of the electrics that connector would be related to.

The issue causing this problem is that moist and water enters the wiring harness underneath the front left fender above the wheel well. The sleeve of the harness does not seal properly around the harness in that location, so you may want to get in there and tape it up to avoid problems in the future.

Dont forget to take a picture of the corroded connection :)

edit: it's funny, I used to have the exact same signature picture as you a long time ago, so I get flashbacks when I see you signature.

Sir Dane:

YOUR THE MAN!

Just like you said. Including the blue tape!
Both left en right doorswitch wires broke at the split connection.
You don't know how happy you made me.
This was the knowledge i was looking for!
Going to fix it tomorrow with daylight.

Shitty way of connecting wires btw.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/9721/img2765ru.jpg (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/img2765ru.jpg/)

Respect for your Accord, i think it's the best on this forum.
Specially with the 10 spoke rims.:bow:
And i believe your Aerodeck is gonna be the best Accord in the future.

Again. Thanx!

Edit: Flashbacks? Good or bad ones?

[Fedor B.]

Fixed it. Now i can say that all my electrics are working just fine.
There were 12 connections in that part of the wire harness.
I redid 8 of them. The 2 that broke where the connections of the courtesy lights to the doorswitch wire.
I was close of finding the problem. But i think i would have taken out the complete dashboard before opening this piece of harness, the largest piece of the harness between C-201/203 and C-301 is far up behind the dash board. The first piece from C-301 with the connections was easy to reach.

Now the only defect on my Accord is the seat belt hand out system.
I think it's only on the European Aerodecks.
When i close the door, a cable system pulls out the belt and makes it easy to reach.
First my house needs some attention.
In a week or 2 i can take some time of from work. Then i'll do the tests for getting Dutch licenceplates on this German car.

Thanks for the help!

[thegreatdane]

You're welcome. Glad I could help! And thanks for the compliments. I've had to put my Aerodeck project on pause and dont know when I'll be able to finish it... and it bugs the hell out of me every day.
Good flashbacks, my first Accord. Of course back then I didnt know any better than to mess it up though..

You probably figured it out already, but the problem with the seatbelt feeder is usually the cable between the door and the seat being broken.
Sometimes the large spring retracting the cable on the door striker inside the door also breaks.

[Fedor B.]

You're welcome. Glad I could help! And thanks for the compliments. I've had to put my Aerodeck project on pause and dont know when I'll be able to finish it... and it bugs the hell out of me every day.
Good flashbacks, my first Accord. Of course back then I didnt know any better than to mess it up though..

You probably figured it out already, but the problem with the seatbelt feeder is usually the cable between the door and the seat being broken.
Sometimes the large spring retracting the cable on the door striker inside the door also breaks.

Seatbelt feeder, that sounds a lot better. Didn't know how to call the thing.
The cable from seat to car is fine. When i push on the lever behind the fender, the seatbelt feeder moves.
So the defect sould be in the door. Gonna look at it later, door panels have to come off anyway for installing audio.

Btw, what's the ET on your 10 spoke alloys?

[thegreatdane]

I think they are ET37. Dont go wider than 205 tires or you will need to roll the lip of the rear fenders.

[Fedor B.]

I think they are ET37. Dont go wider than 205 tires or you will need to roll the lip of the rear fenders.


I've learned (just a few weeks back on this forum) The lower the ET value of the rim, the farther the wheel comes out.
My wheel has a value of 38, and they don't go into the fenders.
On your pics it looks like your 10 spoke is just the right size for clearing the fender when a bump is hit.
So your's must be higher than 38. I think?

http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/3056/img2713e.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/img2713e.jpg/)

205 tires are fine for me.

yes i know, i'll drop it soon.

[thegreatdane]

I'm pretty sure they are 37. But because it's dropped there is more negative camber which makes the wheel go further inward. With 205 tires there were no clearance problems. Also be aware that just because a tire is 205 it might not be excactly the same width as another 205 tire. So it's possible that you could have a 205 tire that rubs a little.

But you are correct on how the ET works.

[Fedor B.]

I'm pretty sure they are 37. But because it's dropped there is more negative camber which makes the wheel go further inward. With 205 tires there were no clearance problems. Also be aware that just because a tire is 205 it might not be excactly the same width as another 205 tire. So it's possible that you could have a 205 tire that rubs a little.

But you are correct on how the ET works.

That's good news. Now i lower the car before buying new wheels.
If my ET38 rims will fit, they do for now.


Sorry guys for talking about wheels in a 'electrical problem' thread.
I stop NOW.

[lostforawhile]

something else to look at, on the drivers side US, there is a blue connector which is actually a ground it has a bunch of black wires plugged into it, i could see this causing a lot of issues, this is a major ground point,on the hatch it's under the fender. if it came loose, it would cause you to pull your hair out. the point where it bolts on is the actal ground.

[Fedor B.]

Tought i was done with electrical problems. WRONG.
Was getting the car ready for the licence plate test at the Dutch National Road Service tomorrow. Got a engine warning light in de dash.
LED on ECU did 13 times: problem with the PA sensor.
First located the thing, its behinde the glovebox inside the car.
Did measurments like the workshop manual says.
Only 2,7 volts between yellow/white and green/white. Sould be 5 volts.
Measured right at the ECU on the same wires and 5 volt there.
So bad contact somewhere. It turned out to be one of the connections in the same piece of wireharness as the first problem. The connection looked okay, but was not.
Lots of work, but cheap fix again.


something else to look at, on the drivers side US, there is a blue connector which is actually a ground it has a bunch of black wires plugged into it, i could see this causing a lot of issues, this is a major ground point,on the hatch it's under the fender. if it came loose, it would cause you to pull your hair out. the point where it bolts on is the actal ground.

This blue plug is not on the Aerodeck models i think.

[Dr_Snooz]

It might be time to rebuild that loom.

[lostforawhile]

Tought i was done with electrical problems. WRONG.
Was getting the car ready for the licence plate test at the Dutch National Road Service tomorrow. Got a engine warning light in de dash.
LED on ECU did 13 times: problem with the PA sensor.
First located the thing, its behinde the glovebox inside the car.
Did measurments like the workshop manual says.
Only 2,7 volts between yellow/white and green/white. Sould be 5 volts.
Measured right at the ECU on the same wires and 5 volt there.
So bad contact somewhere. It turned out to be one of the connections in the same piece of wireharness as the first problem. The connection looked okay, but was not.
Lots of work, but cheap fix again.



This blue plug is not on the Aerodeck models i think.i just got rid of that piece, in cleaning up the unused junk from the loom i got it down to four grounds, i can solder those to a larger piece of ground wire and use a terminal. withou the ac and original carb controls, there's a lot of excess wire

[Fedor B.]

Today spend some time on my sunroof. All 4 water drains where clogged, and tis is not funny when driving, after parking in rain. When you brake for the first time you get a shower. Did not happen yet but remeber just fine from my old Aerodecks.
Had to take out the headliner, but all drains fine again.

But now this. The electrical problem where i started this thread with, seems to be caused by the front left sunroof drain.There is a T split in the tube, just before it leaves the car behind the fender.
1 tube from the sun roof and 1 from the electric antenna.
When water was running through this tube it was leeking just into the left main harness. Very nasty to get at, but managed to place 2 hose clamps.
No water comming in anymore.

First going to clean the headliner before putting it back.

[gti69]

Resurrecting the old thread!

Can the photo referenced in the post quoted below be re-uploaded please? that would help me identify the harness I need to look at. Have similar problem with my Aerodeck.

Cheers,
Tom


Hello mate, very lovely Aerodeck you have!

To fix your issue you have to unwrap the harness in the left direction on this picture: 404 Not Found (http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6440/img2740i.jpg)

The wire you are having issues with is split into more wires with a wire connector inside that harness. So trace your wire in the left direction and unwrap the harness until you find that split connector (wrapped in blue tape i believe).
The wires will be corroded and broken inside this connector.

If i remember correctly there is another split connection inside that part of the harness. You should inspect that one for corrosion as well. I dont remember which part of the electrics that connector would be related to.

The issue causing this problem is that moist and water enters the wiring harness underneath the front left fender above the wheel well. The sleeve of the harness does not seal properly around the harness in that location, so you may want to get in there and tape it up to avoid problems in the future.

Dont forget to take a picture of the corroded connection :)

edit: it's funny, I used to have the exact same signature picture as you a long time ago, so I get flashbacks when I see you signature.