Black smoke, Help please

[Denis]

Doryj day,

Problem such: at me motor B20A2 high fuel consumption of 18 liters нва 100 km. And after 5000 turns in a minute I observe in a mirror that smokes a black smoke, I assume that there is a strong enrichment of a mix.

That you will tell dear friends

[Dr_Snooz]

I love your English! It's like reading Babelfish. Are you getting any check engine codes? When was your last tune up? How does the car drive generally? Have you done any mods? Do you have a carb or fuel injection?

[Nafs Asdf]

You might actually be reading babelfish, he told me he's using a dictionary to write English.

Don't know about the rest, but I can tell you it's FI (B20A2).

[Denis]

English I Will improve) the Car goes well, dynamics excellent, isn't present codes of errors, sometimes a few turns, very high fuel consumption idling swim, I think pour spray jets

I suspect days to replace

The motor a drain

[Denis]

I will tell so 2 years struggle with turns, has changed all gages,

Cleaned дросельную ,
Cleaned Spray jets,
All the filter new,
Ignition is exposed
Pressure of fuel in norm
Candles Denso Iridium under the catalog,

Are very high the expense a city 15 - 18 liters

Line of 8-10 liters

And at factory of 5 seconds it is necessary to twist a starter as though it is a lot of fuel in cylinders,

On the cold it is perfectly got)

[Nafs Asdf]

Google translate says дросельную = butterfly, so I'm guessing it's the throttle body.

[Denis]

Yes it is exact, it is visible the dictionary hasn't translated, and I haven't noticed)

[Nafs Asdf]

http://translate.google.com/

That's what I used, works pretty well.

You are writing in russian and not ukrainian, right?

[Denis]

Yes I write in Russian, in Odessa and in Ukraine basically talk in Russian though the Russian is similar with an Ukrainian and an Ukrainian on Polish)
I know the French language) a little

[SZfiftyfour]

lol Obviously google translate works much better.
Denis have you checked the coolant sensor and the O2 sensor? Thats where I would start. Also the pressure regulator i guess.

[Dr_Snooz]

I suspect a leaky injector. Do you smell fresh gas a lot?

[Oldblueaccord]

Im thinking he has a carb.

wp

[phrenology]

Im thinking he has a carb.

wp

Its an EFI look at his other posts with pics of his B20.

[Denis]

I changed gages but haven't helped, the Motor fills in with gasoline, I will put tomorrow new atomizers and we will check up, I have passed 245 km. From a full tank, and at me gasoline already practically isn't present) and is precisely strong from a pipe stinks of gasoline)

The gage throttle body can?

[SZfiftyfour]

I will tell so 2 years struggle with turns, has changed all gages,

Cleaned дросельную ,
Cleaned Spray jets,
All the filter new,
Ignition is exposed
Pressure of fuel in norm
Candles Denso Iridium under the catalog,

Are very high the expense a city 15 - 18 liters

Line of 8-10 liters

And at factory of 5 seconds it is necessary to twist a starter as though it is a lot of fuel in cylinders,

On the cold it is perfectly got)

So; its been running weird for the past two years. You've replaced all sensors [gages?]. Cleaned the throttle body. Cleaned injectors. Replaced all filters. Replaced all ignition components, including spark plugs. And the fuel pressure is normal.

I still think it could be the fuel pressure regulator. Did you check pressure at the fuel rail?
Also the vapor canister may be flooded with fuel.
If those aren't it, then you have bad injectors or pgm-fi problems that may require a new computer.? Since at that point you've replaced everything else.

[Dr_Snooz]

Plan on replacing the cat if you have emissions inspections.

[Nafs Asdf]

Plan on replacing the cat if you have emissions inspections.

There's no cat on the B20A2

[Oldblueaccord]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60400&highlight=tw+sensor

TW Sensor.

the TW sensor does a great deal, I've found. It's what tells the ECU how much gas to give the engine, based on its temperature. If the engine is cold, it'll give it more gas, and if it's hot, vice versa. This is especially important when starting. With a bad TW sensor, the ECU thinks the engine is always cold, so it'll give it too much gas, you'll sit there cranking and cranking, and the engine floods. So, a temporary solution, which I found here on the site, is the "paperclip method". Just stick a cut paperclip in the TW sensor plug. This gives a closed circuit to the ECU from the sensor plug, making it think the engine is always warm, so it won't give it too much gas. This saves you from flooding it, however, it will be hard to start cold.

I paraphrased this from the above link and removed all the slang so maybe it can be translated better. I think I have someone that speaks Russian or my engineer friend can speak and write Polish if needed.



wp

[Denis]

Thanks for council, I will check,

Today at last, has put the new spray jets, the new pressure control device of fuel, old spray jets poisoned) And the most important thing new motor ALB

Has filled in a full tank 98 Gasolines, I check the expense,
Flight normal)))

[Denis]

TW sensor it is the gage of warming up (thermostatically controlled chamber) it mechanical, put new)

How many these motors, approximately at me already 375000 km go. I do not know that with liners and rings,
The maximum speed has developed 207 km/h

[ecogabriel]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60400&highlight=tw+sensor

TW Sensor.

the TW sensor does a great deal, I've found. It's what tells the ECU how much gas to give the engine, based on its temperature. If the engine is cold, it'll give it more gas, and if it's hot, vice versa. This is especially important when starting. With a bad TW sensor, the ECU thinks the engine is always cold, so it'll give it too much gas, you'll sit there cranking and cranking, and the engine floods. So, a temporary solution, which I found here on the site, is the "paperclip method". Just stick a cut paperclip in the TW sensor plug. This gives a closed circuit to the ECU from the sensor plug, making it think the engine is always warm, so it won't give it too much gas. This saves you from flooding it, however, it will be hard to start cold.

I paraphrased this from the above link and removed all the slang so maybe it can be translated better. I think I have someone that speaks Russian or my engineer friend can speak and write Polish if needed.

wp

TW sensor tells the ECU when engine is warm enough to run in "closed loop" mode, that is using sensor inputs (02, MAP sensor...) to adjust fuel injection. When engine is cold the ECU injects a specific amount of gas that makes the engine run but not as efficient.

The "paperclip trick" is an easy test he can make -it won't hurt in any case.

A stuck open thermostat would not let the ECU go into closed loop mode... l learned that through experience; however, it never smelled like the engine was flooded with gas. Fuel consumption was not great but also not that horrible.

Is the O2 sensor the right type?

He said he smelled gas even when cold; he said fuel pressure is normal. I would side with Dr. that leaky injector/s may be the cause here. Are we covering everything?

60 liters gone in 240km... 4km/liter ... about 9.5 mpg... damn it is bad! :rant:

[ecogabriel]

"old spray jets poisoned"... what does it mean?

What was wrong with them? were they rusted?

[Oldblueaccord]

TW sensor it is the gage of warming up (thermostatically controlled chamber) it mechanical, put new)

How many these motors, approximately at me already 375000 km go. I do not know that with liners and rings,
The maximum speed has developed 207 km/h

Can you measure the sensors output for us with an electrical meter. It will read in Ohms.


I have 300,000 miles with low compression, cylinder pressure, but I get 27-31 miles per gallon.

If your engine is using a lot of motor oil then the rings are very worn.


I think he means spray jets are injectors. Also a faulty TW sensor has proven to make out cars run very very rich and cause a rich start condition. I never have had a problem but its what I have read here.

wp

[88Accord-DX]

I'll throw something in here, most older pre-OBD 1 ECU's will calculate the fuel injector pulse width modulation as -

(RPM signal) X (TW x IAT) X (O2) ....


Speed density uses a different formula than MAF systems. Anyhow, Fuel injector pulse width modulation is calculated depending on the system by this formula - (RPM signal X MAP) X (TPS x ECT x IAT) x (O2) x (StFt x LtFt)

There is a little more math to it, like what is divided by what. But just giving the basic idea.









.

[Dr_Snooz]

Sounds like you've replaced a lot of parts Denis. That gets expensive quickly. Try to do more diagnosis and less buying in the future.

Let us know how it goes.

[Denis]

Greetings, business was in spray jets, on spray jets and the gasoline expense became normal, and on high turns doesn't smoke)))

But just in case I will check up the temperature detector

P.S. Old spray jets were burst, and pitted pressure from the cylinder

[Nafs Asdf]

Good thing you got it figured out. :)

[Denis]

Yes, thank you for the help)

I will soon load new photos

[ecogabriel]

glad you solved it.

[88Accord-DX]

Usually you can compare fuel injector Ohm readings with a good known fuel injector using a good Digital Volt Meter like Fluke. Good deal you figured it out. ;)

[catman]

Hello all, new to the forum.... My issue seems similar to Denis's - High Fuel consumption (19-24mpg), fuel oder, some smoke no alot, but with a twist no power at higher speeds (60-75mph), when I take my foot off the gas the car dies unless I feather the peddle 5-10 seconds then it idles rough. Here are some details about the car:

New - O2 sensor, CAT, plug, wires, distributor cap, rotor, pcv, fuel filter
Fuel pressure good at filter and pressure increase when regulator hose is disconneted
No codes - I had egr code 12 but corrected - air chamber was clogged
No vacumm leaks
Cleaned throttle body
tested injectors - ohms in spec and 'clicking' as they should... i think
Switch computers - same results
Idle screw very far out, otherwise car will die - idle high in the morning
Car has 420K+ with no overhaul and does not burn oil
Start without issue at any temperature

Do you guys think I am on the right track with a leaky injector? BTW, let me know if I need to start a new thread or if I am doing something wrong.

Thanks!!!

[poison2003]

esli hochesh pishi na ruskom ya mogu perevesti

[Dr_Snooz]

Is there fuel staining around the injectors? If so, you probably need to replace them. That's usually the only time the FI cars smell like gas. I'm not sure if that would cause your issue, but it's a good place to start.

Welcome to the board! 420k is very impressive. Start a new thread in the Newbie Introductions (http://www.3geez.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37) section and post up some pics of your ride.

[catman]

Thanks for the Welcome!

I misspoke, when I said fuel odor I meant running very rich but no, I do not see any fuel staining.

I will re-post this in a couple of weeks in the newbie section as you suggest. I just found out that I have to go on a business trip for the next couple of weeks and won't be able to work on the car. Thanks again!!