K&N air filter does not fit, don't buy it

[pressed001]

If you're concerned about your MPG like I am then don't buy the K&N filter for the stock airbox. It leaves a 2-3mm gap between the lid and the box itself so that the EGR (exhaust gas return) system does not work properly. I have seen a night and day difference in my city MPG. Like...from 35 or so down to 25. Youza!
I plan on contacting K&N, never had a problem before.

Word up!
Christian

[charliekuney]

Did you get the wrong model?

[lostforawhile]

the airbox has nothing to do with the egr system, if anything your fuel economy should have gone up.

[Spencer]

The only thing I bought from K&N was an air breather,other than that I try to stay away from american after markets unless theyre the only solution to my problem.

[carotman]

I have the K&N Filter on my hatch and it seemed to fit properly.

What part number did you get?

[pressed001]

Part number E-9030.
I guess Autozone could have given me the wrong one, but sure seems to be the stock replacement.
The EGR system recirculates exhaust gas back into the intake, it has a lot to do w/ the airbox.
I will try returning it for another of the same, maybe it's just mine that doesn't fit right.
But anywho, thanks 3geez!

[pressed001]

Nice '89 LX BTW Carotman! I love these cars. So SEXY!!!

[lostforawhile]

Part number E-9030.
I guess Autozone could have given me the wrong one, but sure seems to be the stock replacement.
The EGR system recirculates exhaust gas back into the intake, it has a lot to do w/ the airbox.
I will try returning it for another of the same, maybe it's just mine that doesn't fit right.
But anywho, thanks 3geez!

the egr recirculates back into the intake manifold, not into the air cleaner, the only thing that's connected to the air cleaner is the vent on the valve cover, it's to draw filtered air into the valve cover due to vacuum at the oil pan from the pcv system. the egr system is connected to the intake manifold itself through one of those tubes connected to the exhaust manifold, when the valve opens on top of the manifold, some exhaust gasses are draw through a passage cast into the manifold itself, and directly into the intake itself below the carburetor.

[w261w261]

Several threads on K&N on here, so I won't go on, but will just mention that after installing a K&N filter on my car and unfortunately running with it for maybe 25k miles, I had the oil tested by one of those labs. It had high silicon (like sand e.g. dirt). It tested that way for the next three oil changes. So I gave up on the K&N and went back to the factory filter. Next oil change the oil was within specifications. I therefore conclude that the K&N was not doing enough filtering. I haven't missed the supposed extra 2 hp it gave me. And the CAI's that folks are fond of putting on, with their foam air cleaners on the end.....well, let's say that I hope they like the intake noise, because the crud that's making it through the "filter" is having a good time inside.

[lostforawhile]

Several threads on K&N on here, so I won't go on, but will just mention that after installing a K&N filter on my car, I had the oil tested by one of those labs. It had high silicone (like sand e.g. dirt). It tested that way for three times. I gave up on the K&N and went back to the factory filter. Next oil change the oil was within specifications. I therefore conclude that the K&N is not doing quite enough filtering.

they really aren't designed for street engines, both the oil and air filters are designed for higher flow, with less filtering, this is for race applications, where the longevity of the engine isn't important. A bunch of people got the idea they would be cool to put on street cars, since they are race parts, and K&N hasn't discouraged them, just raked in the money. the OP may be confusing the system that lets fresh air into the exhaust with the EGR system, the thing connected directly to the air filter, through the box on the manifold, and to the exhaust, is simply a reed valve controlled by the computer. no exhaust comes up it, if it is, the valve is bad, it just lets fresh air into the exhaust to help the converter, this replaces the need to have an air pump. the big plastic box attached to it is just an air muffler designed to make it quieter

[w261w261]

they really aren't designed for street engines, both the oil and air filters are designed for higher flow, with less filtering, this is for race applications, where the longevity of the engine isn't important. A bunch of people got the idea they would be cool to put on street cars, since they are race parts, and K&N hasn't discouraged them.

Not to mention that when you go through the process of washing and re-oiling the filters, if you don't follow the directions and put on too much oil, it will get sucked into the intake and cause problems with the airflow sensor.

[w261w261]

Oh and btw, when I showed up at the Honda dealer to pick up an air filter, the counter guy said I'd have to order it, they don't stock them any more. An air filter! Not totally surprising, but still.......

[lostforawhile]

Oh and btw, when I showed up at the Honda dealer to pick up an air filter, the counter guy said I'd have to order it, they don't stock them any more. An air filter! Not totally surprising, but still.......

honda has never really made any of their filters, they are just rebranded.

[w261w261]

They still had one at Autozone.

[lostforawhile]

They still had one at Autozone.

well you can get aftermarket, it just isn't rebranded as Honda with the included increase in price. Stick with quality filters like Wix or Nappa gold, same thing, and you'll be fine

[Dr_Snooz]

This guy here also experienced a big loss in MPG using K&N filters:

http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63700&highlight=K%26amp;N+filter+mpg

[pressed001]

Before all this started I was running with a NAPA SILVER filter which rendered wonderful gas mileage and fit my stock airbox.
My advice would be to run with that and not the K&N.
Again, thanks guys!
3geez FTW.

[lostforawhile]

Before all this started I was running with a NAPA SILVER filter which rendered wonderful gas mileage and fit my stock airbox.
My advice would be to run with that and not the K&N.
Again, thanks guys!
3geez FTW.I don't think they make the silver anymore, the Nappa gold is Wix, thats the one to get.

[lostforawhile]

If you're concerned about your MPG like I am then don't buy the K&N filter for the stock airbox. It leaves a 2-3mm gap between the lid and the box itself so that the EGR (exhaust gas return) system does not work properly. I have seen a night and day difference in my city MPG. Like...from 35 or so down to 25. Youza!
I plan on contacting K&N, never had a problem before.

Word up!
Christian
Will someone PLEASE explain to this guy that the EGR system does NOT dump into the airbox on a carb car? I explained how it works a few posts down, but I got a pm explaining that I know nothing, it dumps straight into the air box, and a carbed car has no manifold??!!!

[pressed001]

Yeah, I had a few too many last night and thought that pigs fly too... :) Sorry lostforawhile!
In all seriousness though, there is a hose that goes straight from my exhaust manifold to the airbox inlet, no valves, just a straight hose that hooks right on into the airbox inlet. Though that may not be the egr system in it's entirety, it seems to me to be part of it and perhaps a significant one.
Hah! They don't even make the silver, that's scary! I bought this car a year ago and replaced the air filter a month ago and pulled out this old nasty napa silver filter. Makes me wonder how old it really is!
I'll post pics of this exhaust gas hose later today! I will also contact K&N and post what they have to say.
As always, thanks for being cool guys!

[lostforawhile]

Yeah, I had a few too many last night and thought that pigs fly too... :) Sorry lostforawhile!
In all seriousness though, there is a hose that goes straight from my exhaust manifold to the airbox inlet, no valves, just a straight hose that hooks right on into the airbox inlet. Though that may not be the egr system in it's entirety, it seems to me to be part of it and perhaps a significant one.
Hah! They don't even make the silver, that's scary! I bought this car a year ago and replaced the air filter a month ago and pulled out this old nasty napa silver filter. Makes me wonder how old it really is!
I'll post pics of this exhaust gas hose later today! I will also contact K&N and post what they have to say.
As always, thanks for being cool guys!

that hose should attach to a bunch of stuff bolted on top of the manifold, in front of the carb, it looks like part of the manifold but it's not. there should be a vaccume diapham attached to it, honda calls it an air suction control valve, it basically allows the computer to contol that reed valve and how much oxygen is in the exaust

[lostforawhile]

http://www.mikemckeever.com/img/FlyingPig.CNY.500.jpg

[Nafs Asdf]

Yeah, I had a few too many last night and thought that pigs fly too... :) Sorry lostforawhile!
In all seriousness though, there is a hose that goes straight from my exhaust manifold to the airbox inlet, no valves, just a straight hose that hooks right on into the airbox inlet. Though that may not be the egr system in it's entirety, it seems to me to be part of it and perhaps a significant one.
Hah! They don't even make the silver, that's scary! I bought this car a year ago and replaced the air filter a month ago and pulled out this old nasty napa silver filter. Makes me wonder how old it really is!
I'll post pics of this exhaust gas hose later today! I will also contact K&N and post what they have to say.
As always, thanks for being cool guys!

I think you're talking about the hot air pipe.

[lostforawhile]

I think you're talking about the hot air pipe.

I think you are right, I didn't think of that, does it attach to the air inlet on the air cleaner? that just pulls hot air from around the manifold when the inlet air is too cold

[4literranger485]

I don't think they make the silver anymore, the Nappa gold is Wix, thats the one to get.

QFT wix is awesome stuff, and NAPA gold is usually the easiest way to source them for me. we don't have any local wix dealers that i know of.

[pressed001]

http://www.mikemckeever.com/img/flyingpig.cny.500.jpg

rofl!!!

[pressed001]

I think you are right, I didn't think of that, does it attach to the air inlet on the air cleaner? that just pulls hot air from around the manifold when the inlet air is too cold

I see, I see... so there's not even any exhaust gas in that thing, okay, that makes sense, and perhaps is there as well to help get the exhaust/engine components to the proper operating temperature on cold starts...?

Thx

[lostforawhile]

I see, I see... so there's not even any exhaust gas in that thing, okay, that makes sense, and perhaps is there as well to help get the exhaust/engine components to the proper operating temperature on cold starts...?

Thxon that engine, when it's cold, a mechanical thermostat in the air cleaner closes an air bleed, when this bleed closes, the vacuum motor right above that hose, the round thing, pulls an air door up, blocking off air flow from the inlet hose, and causing the engine to pull warm air from around the exhaust manifold, this thermostat works all the time allowing a mix of hot and cold air, to keep the inlet temperature to the carb around 90. when the temp gets too high, the air bleed opens, allowing the door to close, when it's too cold it closes allowing it to rise. on about 90 percent of these cars that vacuum motor is bad, the carb also has an electrically heated base plate, the air fuel mixture goes through a heated grid, this is controlled by a timer under the passenger seat. the carb itself actually has a coolant passage in it, coolant flows from the manifold itself, to the base of the carburetor, through the carb body, and out a hose on the back of the carb back to the cooling system. there is also a thermostat inline with the hose from the carb base. that system is a source of contention with anyone who owns a carb model, and of course coolant flows through the manifold.

[pressed001]

Cheers! That is fantabulous knowledge! And probably explains some of the quirks I've seen w/ this engine.

Thank you sir!

[pressed001]

I wasn't kidding about the bike thing! :)
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/2056271508.html
I'ma gunna mis 'er!

[lostforawhile]

Cheers! That is fantabulous knowledge! And probably explains some of the quirks I've seen w/ this engine.

Thank you sir!

this is why I got rid of the factory carb, after 25 years all this carefully synchronized stuff goes haywire, there are a lot of vacuum hoses, vacuum motors, valves, sensors, thermostats, solenoids, etc, after 25 years they all go pretty crazy and it's almost impossible to fix, there are also items such as the power valve built into the carb top hat, it can't be serviced, except maby by a specialty re builder. a lot of the rebuilders manufacture their own replacement parts, and diaphragms, since many of the factory parts are discontinued

[pressed001]

Yeah, it would be a PITA to fix all that and get it working perfectly. I'm just glad mine runs reliably!

[lostforawhile]

Yeah, it would be a PITA to fix all that and get it working perfectly. I'm just glad mine runs reliably!

be glad you aren't in cali, they expect all that to work, even without parts available. they got rid of the rolling exemption. I don't know why they can't exempt cars with these nightmare control systems when parts aren't made, you can make an aftermarket carb pass the sniffer test, but it won't pass visual, whats the difference? it's the same thing coming out the other end. I'm glad I don't live there

[w261w261]

Rule #1: Buy a 3G Accord, we all know the reasons.
Rule #2: Don't buy a carb version. 20 less horses, 20x the hassles.

[Nafs Asdf]

Rule #1: Buy a 3G Accord, we all know the reasons.
Rule #2: Don't buy a carb version. 20 less horses, 20x the hassles.

Not entirely true, my carbed 3g has way less vacuum hoses and stuff than my EFI one, both are stock. No emissions stuff ftw, doesn't even have a black box :D

http://img136.yfrog.com/img136/6196/engineclean1.jpg

[car6289]

Not entirely true, my carbed 3g has way less vacuum hoses and stuff than my EFI one, both are stock. No emissions stuff ftw, doesn't even have a black box :D

http://img136.yfrog.com/img136/6196/engineclean1.jpg

What a nice engine you have without the black hose rubber jungle under the hood. Must be nice!

[pressed001]

I was gonna say, nice engine bay Nafs Adsf!
lostforawhile: wouldn't you think there would be some type of government incentive in CA so that ppl who don't have much cash (like me) could sell the car to the state and get a newer more smog compliant vehicle. I find it hard to believe they don't have a program like that that's active. I think there used to be...dunno though... I didn't know they got rid of that exemption. I used to live there, fortunately not long enough so that I had to get a smog check. I would have failed miserably w/ the 3" straight tube I had fabbed for my turbo vw. Ahh....I miss turbo... ;.{

[pressed001]

Those clips on the perimeter of the airbox in the pic above, I couldn't even snap shut after installing the K&N. And! You were right, I was wrong lostforawhile, there looks to be a valve that opens and closes that exhaust hose I was talking about, you can see it in the pic above too. It's right below the airbox (in pic up there) right before the turn where the air cleaner goes into the fenderwell, there's a small vacuum tube that opens and closes it. So, I guess you learn (I learn) something new every day.

Thanks!

[Dr_Snooz]

wouldn't you think there would be some type of government incentive in CA so that ppl who don't have much cash (like me) could sell the car to the state and get a newer more smog compliant vehicle.

There is a program.

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/80_BARResources/01_CAP&GoldShield/Factsheets/Website%20CAP%20FAQs.pdf

It seems there are a lot of misconceptions about California out there. (Lost, I'm looking in your direction.) The smog check gets billed as this horribly onerous burden imposed on everyone by jack-booted thugs brandishing assault rifles. The truth is that if you keep your car in good repair and running right, you won't have problems getting through it. In most cases, you can even modify the car with aftermarket performance parts and not get into trouble. California maintains a list of smog-approved aftermarket upgrades (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/amquery.php). If nothing there suits your fancy, you can still swap for non-approved parts and sneak through the inspections. The smog check starts with a visual inspection of the vehicle. The tech knows what smog control systems came on the car from the factory (EGR, catalytic converter, smog pump, etc.) In the visual inspection, he will look briefly to make sure they haven't been removed or disabled. The tech will very rarely know if you have a non-approved aftermarket part on your car, so you can usually sneak by that part. The second part of the test is a tailpipe sniffer test done on a dyno. The sniffer measures 3 components: hydrocarbons (unburned fuel), nitrogen oxide and carbon monoxide. In a properly running engine, these gases will be low and in balance. If your tailpipe emissions are within spec and you pass the visual inspection, you will pass. If you have all the factory smog systems in place and working and the car is in good repair, your tailpipe emissions won't be a problem.

Those of you who congratulate yourselves on not living in California should really think again. My brother used to call from Texas to brag about how they didn't have smog checks. When Texas started implementing smog checks, he called to brag that they didn't have dyno tests. Now that Texas has dyno checks, he doesn't brag anymore.

California has always been about 20 years ahead of the rest of the nation. California's problems today will be everybody else's within 20 years. We have smog checks because we like to breathe clean air. When your air turns dirty, you'll be glad for smog checks too.

[Dr_Snooz]

Oh yeah, O-Reilly's carries Wix filters now.