long warm up?

[ripcord]

so i'm getting a 1988 lx back into shape and my first problem to tackle--long warm ups. it seems to take forever to warm up. first off it may not be a problem at all but i'm used to driving an 06 corolla and it would get warm reel quick so thats what i'm judging it against. i've (wifes) had it since new and i don't remember it taking long at all to warm up. you'll have to trust me when i say long. the thermostat/coolant have been replaced. once through a cycle of the thermostat it almost runs like new. but its hard to wait a half hour for that. anywhere else to look at, any other valves or anything in the cooling system?

[Bglad420]

Stuck thermostat. Buy an OEM one with the OEM gasket.

[Dr_Snooz]

How long is long? What's the ambient temperature? Are you driving, or letting it idle in the driveway buried in 6 ft. of snow?

[ripcord]

it been in the 40's and 50's in the la.ca. area. it's not that i'm cold it's the car that doesn't like it cold and i'm not the type to wait for it. a guy at my work has a 98 civic and he said it takes about 5 min. to feel warm air out the vents. he also drives a scion xb he says takes 2 min. this sounds about right i guess. my accord takes about 7 min. it takes about 15 min to get fully warmed up.
i'm pretty sure that's too long. i may have forgot to mention that its been sitting for 2 years only being started every once in a while.
what i'm really trying to fix is the 2500 rpm warm up idle, which i know for sure is not normal. so maybe i'm starting in the wrong place. i guess i figured the faster it warmed up the quicker it would drop the rpm.

[Demon1024]

The fast idle control valve located on the top back part of the intake mani near the throttle.
2 screws on top take them off. When you look down into it there will be circular plastic piece with 2 notches on it. It's a big screw. Screw it down to lower idle at warm up.

My carb'd accord takes about 5 min to get warm. Never actually checked the others against time as the carb'd on has no choke now so attention is needed.

Listen to Bglad420 get the Oem thermo most others are crap
Also if you haven't flushed out your coolant system you might have gunk in it which will make the thermo fail pretty quick.

[Dr_Snooz]

What color is your coolant now?

[2oodoor]

It sounds like 98 percent of the other oem carbed 3rd gen.. these crazy things have way too many appliances that control throttle opening other than the damn gas pedal.
This is the only carb ive ever seen that has the fast idle deal separate from the choke angle. So even if the choke butterfly, or blade or whatever choice of term you want to call it, has cycles properly with the electric choke, and temp cont vacuum pull off.. the damn fast idle kicker is controled seperatly with a whole other means.
My quick solution was to remove the whole fast idle and choke linkages together and wired up the blade to stay open. The car still cranked fine in the cold, with no fast idling at all.

[ripcord]

What color is your coolant now?
the coolant was replaced along w/ the thermo at a recommended shop, i suppose they could have left some air in the cooling system or something.

[ripcord]

thanks all for the replies, it gives me more insight into the cooling system.
my feeling was that i could put up with the super high idle for a little time. so if i got the engine to warm up a little quicker it would make it more acceptable.
the problem with the car seems to have started when it failed smog 4 years ago, when they adjusted it to pass. then the p/s hose started to leak and my wife just stopped using it. my accord has only minor drivability problems and i had hoped that the warm up situation would be a somewhat simple fix. perhaps i should move on to the carb as most of the other problems are more than likely caused by the it.

this is how the car reacts after cold start up. times are loose estimates.
1- starts right up runs great for 30sec.
2- 30 sec. later it starts to creep up from about 1800 to 2500 rpm
3-taping on gas pedal not work to slow it down
4- does not reduce rpms until driven about 7 min.
5- temp gauge still <c at that time.
6- i'm at work.

so you see that this issue is kinda minor, but its not supposed to be this way. some other issues with drivability -after warm up low idle(≤600rpm) and a nice stumble off the line most times.

[Dr_Snooz]

What color is the coolant RIGHT now.

[ripcord]

a real nice clear blue windex color

here is an update- i'm starting to drive her more and more and two things are happening 1- the symptoms are starting to become better and 2- its getting easier to accept this condition. i have come to the conclusion that it is normal for it to take longer than some other cars to warm up. i have also discovered how to kick down the rpms after the very high idle speed has run its course and returned below 2000. i will let things loosen up a bit more before i go turning screws on the engine.

[Buzo]

thanks all for the replies, it gives me more insight into the cooling system.
my feeling was that i could put up with the super high idle for a little time. so if i got the engine to warm up a little quicker it would make it more acceptable.
the problem with the car seems to have started when it failed smog 4 years ago, when they adjusted it to pass. then the p/s hose started to leak and my wife just stopped using it. my accord has only minor drivability problems and i had hoped that the warm up situation would be a somewhat simple fix. perhaps i should move on to the carb as most of the other problems are more than likely caused by the it.

this is how the car reacts after cold start up. times are loose estimates.
1- starts right up runs great for 30sec.
2- 30 sec. later it starts to creep up from about 1800 to 2500 rpm
3-taping on gas pedal not work to slow it down
4- does not reduce rpms until driven about 7 min.
5- temp gauge still <c at that time.
6- i'm at work.

so you see that this issue is kinda minor, but its not supposed to be this way. some other issues with drivability -after warm up low idle(≤600rpm) and a nice stumble off the line most times.


I am going to share with you my every morning (below 0 degrees C) cold start
1- starts right up runs great for 30sec at 1200 rpm.
2- 30 sec. later it starts to creep up from about 1800 rpm
3- 40 seconds later it automatically goes back to 1200
4- start my drive, the temp hits the "C" in the gauge after 2 minutes.
5.- 1 minute more and the temp needle is at 1/3 of the full scale and stays there all the time.

There is an easy test to know if your thermostat is OK, warm up your car until its above "C" and take a freeway. If the temp goes below the "C" when you are around 55 MPH, your thermostat is passing water when is not supposed to.

And for your low idle issue I recommend you to do this procedure:

1) Back off both screws with a spring and a little cup in the head that are located in the sides of the carb, until they are not touching anymore the throttle. There is one in the drivers side and another in the passengers side. Both are located in an "arm" of a vacuum actuator. The passenger side one is called throttle controller and the drivers side is called idle boost throttle controller.

2) Then start your car and adjust the Idle Stop screw in the back of the carb until you get 900 rpms. This is going to be the lower speed you will get in case of everything else moving the throttle fails. The service manual says adjust it to 550 rpms, but the car will stumble at any rpms below 800. So 900 is safe. You will need to use both hands to be able to turn this crew, Its the black plastic one with a "star" shape.

3) Once your car is idling stable, adjust the passengers side screw until it touches the throttle, I'll say it risess the rpms to 920. Disconnect the hose that moves the automatic idle speed actuator and the RPMS should rise to 2700 rpms aprox. This actuator is normally extended, so lack of vacuum will accelerate your car.

4) Adjust the drivers side actuator, If cold and in parking, it must be activated, so adjust it until the rpms rises at 950 rpms. Disconnect the vacuum hose (and immediately plug the port with your finger) and the rpms should drop back to 920. This actuator is not spring loaded, so if no vacuum will move with the throttle.

If the process fail to stabilize your idle speed, then you have a vacuum leak or something else preventing the engine to idle.

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3975/throttleactuators.png (http://img11.imageshack.us/i/throttleactuators.png/)

[Dr_Snooz]

Sounds like your cooling system is okay. If your coolant turns rust colored, you'll need to spend some more time getting the system up to snuff. Keep flushing and replacing coolant until it stays blue. ...then replace all the parts that break. I live in Central California, which is a little colder, but my car takes about the same amount of time to heat up as yours. These are cast iron block engines and will take a little longer than newer aluminum blocks. Also, some newer cars use various tricks (like auxiliary water pumps) to get the heater to warm up faster. If you want to track down the cause, you can start by verifying the gauge temps with an infrared thermometer aimed at various parts of the engine. Water temps going into the thermostat from the radiator will be fairly low. Coming out of the engine they will be hotter. Maybe somewhere around 195, at operating temp. If that checks out, then you can start pulling the cooling system apart and looking for blockages. You'll just run water through the various parts of the system and looking for reduced flows coming out the other side. It seems like you are mostly concerned with output temps at the vents, so start looking for problems with your heater core. Water-flow through it might be blocked. It's also possible that the case is full of crud that prevents air from blowing across the core.

Good luck.

[lostforawhile]

if the car has been sitting, there's a good chance there's a mouse nest in the blower or the evaporator core, is there a normal amount of air coming out the vents? there are two drains under the cowl cover, thats how the mice get in, there is no screen over the blower wheel, it's open