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lostforawhile
01-20-2011, 05:34 PM
I just discovered my almost new front motor mount is cracked, this is about the third one in i've bought in 10 years, I guess they are just a bad design, but anyway I've deceided to make my own, I know someone in Minnesota who will do some aluminum sand castings for me, so I'm going to make a master mold of an adapter to use an energy suspension engine mount,

this is the mount I'm going to use,

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/2011-01-20_202947.png


I have a large chuck of ash and I'll start machining it into a mold as soon as I can get all the measurements figured out

ShyBoyCA6
01-20-2011, 06:04 PM
Looks good

w261w261
01-20-2011, 08:06 PM
There must be a reason you're burning through mounts like that. Doesn't seem to be a typical problem.

lostforawhile
01-20-2011, 08:13 PM
all the mounts are new, i just think the quality went down to crap on the aftermarket ones, a lot of people here have had problems with that hydraulic mount, I've got to figure out the height from the cross member to the flat where the motor mount bracket sits, once i have that i'll sketch out the basics of the bracket on paper, figure the measurements , and start making the mold out of a block of hard ash I have, once the mold is perfect, i send it off and get two cast aluminum brackets back. then they get machined for the energy suspension pieces

2drSE-i
01-21-2011, 10:43 AM
This is just me playing devil's advocate here, but your mount may be cracked from sitting? More power to you on the custom mount, because your right, those hydraulic mounts suck, just offering a suggestion

lostforawhile
01-21-2011, 02:17 PM
can someone identify if there is a difference between the dx and the lxi mount? advance says they are two different mounts, different prices, if the one in the car is wrong, my engine is sitting wrong, I need to find this out before i do all this work and find out it's wrong

Strugglebucket
01-24-2011, 07:32 PM
The front mount?

'86-'88 the mounts were all the same regardless of trim level or auto/manual. '89 is where it gets weird with 3 different mounts and 2 different brackets.

There's a thread here: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41961&highlight=mount

lostforawhile
01-24-2011, 07:40 PM
The front mount?

'86-'88 the mounts were all the same regardless of trim level or auto/manual. '89 is where it gets weird with 3 different mounts and 2 different brackets.

There's a thread here: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41961&highlight=mount

I went and measured two at advance today, both are supposed to be 86, one is from a carb, and one from a FI car, both are different, for some reason even the bolt centers are different, I though they all had the same cross member, my engine sits high on that corner which makes me suspect I was sold an 89 or something

Strugglebucket
01-24-2011, 08:01 PM
The older bracket and the dx/lx for all years was made out of stamped metal. The '89 lx-i had a solid cast bracket, with a step machined out of the auto trans bracket (the auto mount was about " taller).

lostforawhile
01-24-2011, 08:12 PM
The older bracket and the dx/lx for all years was made out of stamped metal. The '89 lx-i had a solid cast bracket, with a step machined out of the auto trans bracket (the auto mount was about " taller).

right, I have the stamped bracket, I suspect I may have an lxi mount, this would explain why the exhaust would bump the cross member slightly, I have now what I suspect is the correct height, I'll put together a couple of blocks of wood which are the correct height with a bolt in the center and see if the engine drops down. I can't even do anything with the exhaust until I know for sure the height is right.

lostforawhile
01-24-2011, 08:22 PM
If I can get the height of the base right, I'm going to make my own mount, I decided to use a heavy aluminum base with a round machined out aluminum piece, I'll suspend a hardened bolt in it with a washer for a safety interlock, then fill it with urethane compound, when it's hardened it will get another piece with a hole in the center bolted over it, this will prevent the mount from pulling apart, this should fix the issue of it breaking once and for all, I was going to cast something, but after finding out about this compound that is available, I'll make my own

DBMaster
01-25-2011, 09:08 AM
What I would like to see are the front fluid filled mount and the rear lower transmission mount (you should replace both together) in a form that is both more durable and still controls engine vibration. These engines have no balance shafts, as the 1990-on Accords have. I pretty much know to replace mine when the contents of my glovebox start rattling at stoplights. I am on my third set and I am pretty tired of replacing them as well!

carotman
01-25-2011, 09:30 AM
I also got tired of my front mount breaking (I got rid of the dogbone)

Let us know how this turns out.

DBMaster
01-25-2011, 10:53 AM
I also got tired of my front mount breaking (I got rid of the dogbone)

Let us know how this turns out.

Does eliminating the torque mount (dog bone) do anything positive? Just wondering.

carotman
01-26-2011, 06:38 AM
Does eliminating the torque mount (dog bone) do anything positive? Just wondering.

Not at all. I had to remove it in order to install my Edelbrock Intake.

lostforawhile
01-26-2011, 04:14 PM
Ok it's almost done, I need to get the liquid urethane to fill it now,

this is the base of the mount, I cut this square piece roughly to shape before machining it,

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4022028.jpg

this is with the center bored out

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4022029.jpg

roughly finished mount the base still needs to be attached to the mounting plate,

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4022037.jpg

this is the guts of the mount, the center section suspends inside of the outer case, the heavy piece of the steel section sticks out about a half inch, this is what the motor mount bracket sits on, I need to make a collar to fit in the top with a setscrew, this will let me exactly center the center piece and adjust the height perfectly, once it's adjusted right, liquid urethane gets poured in the outer case, in a couple of days, the collar comes off, and the center section will be bonded permanently into the urethane, there's a gap between the center section and the top, to allow for movement. the reason for the washers is to make sure the mount can't come apart.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/S4022041.jpg

lostforawhile
01-27-2011, 10:44 PM
a few more pictures, I'll get some better ones tomorrow, I made the collar piece, this slips into the top of the mount, and centers the center section, as well as sets the height while the urethane is curing, once it's fully cured, it removes, leaving the center piece exactly set in the correct position.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4022042.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4022043.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4022044.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/S4022045.jpg

lostforawhile
01-28-2011, 08:14 PM
does someone have the correct compressed height of the front mount for the carb car? I can adjust the center section of this mount before the urethane is poured, I also want to make sure I got the center to center of the mounting bolts right.

lostforawhile
01-28-2011, 10:17 PM
ok I'm pissed, I based my height measurement off of an actual mount at advance, Cygnus just got me the compressed height of 73 MM, this means my mount is almost exactly 1 inch too tall, it's also the same height as the one in my car now, this is going to throw off a lot of my measurements, i used a small height gauge to measure the one at advance, i figured it might compress slightly, but it's not going to compress an inch, Now i have to cut an inch off of the height of my motor mount center, and redrill and tap the holes that hold on the top, I always wondered why my motor looked cockeyed

stat1K
02-03-2011, 12:39 PM
so tim, why is it that you start a new thread for each one of your projects? it would seem better if you just added them all into one thread like a normal sane person, but i guess if the glove doesn't fit you must acquit right?

lostforawhile
02-03-2011, 02:58 PM
so tim, why is it that you start a new thread for each one of your projects? it would seem better if you just added them all into one thread like a normal sane person, but i guess if the glove doesn't fit you must acquit right?

it's a project thread, why do you have a problem with my thread? it's a technical thread.

DBMaster
02-03-2011, 03:21 PM
Personally, I want to know how your mount is performing a few months after you install it. I would like to know how the vibration level is compared to the fluid filled OEM mount.

lostforawhile
02-03-2011, 04:51 PM
Personally, I want to know how your mount is performing a few months after you install it. I would like to know how the vibration level is compared to the fluid filled OEM mount.

the urethane comes in three durometers, the softest is like a factory mount, the middle one is between a race mount and factory, and the third is full out race. they recommend the middle one for street use, they transmit vibration in the same order, third is the harshest first is the least harsh, when I can order the urethane i'll post more details, this is the same stuff they make energy suspension mounts out of. basically i'll be suspending the center pin with a big washer and a hardened bolt as a mounting stud in the urethane, the collar piece I made keeps it perfectly centered and at the exact right height, the collar will get coated with a release compound so it comes out, it sits for a week, and the collar comes off. this leaves the center piece locked into the urethane. the washer is to give it a good purchase on the urethane, and it's also larger then the opening of the mount, this is a safety to prevent the pin from ever coming out.

carotman
02-03-2011, 05:23 PM
This is awesome work there Tim!

stat1K
02-04-2011, 05:10 AM
it's a project thread, why do you have a problem with my thread? it's a technical thread.

oh it's a great thread don't get me wrong it's just that you have about a million different things going on with the car, but most people would consolidate them into one thread with updates on each specific project. that was the intent of this forum to be a place for project (read car) threads. just saying.

DBMaster
02-04-2011, 08:28 AM
Well, once you get through with it and test it for a while maybe you can sell a few - to us!

lostforawhile
02-04-2011, 03:56 PM
Well, once you get through with it and test it for a while maybe you can sell a few - to us!Cygnus has adapters he's making to hold energy suspension GM type urethane mounts, they look great and hold an easy to find energy suspension mount, I think they would be more cost effective then these, I used some aluminum pieces that I already had to make these, and then the urethane is 27 bucks plus shipping when I'm able to afford it. the aluminum alone would probably make these so high priced they wouldn't be worth it. I'm going to even use one of his adapters for a rear mount. He had them all figured out, but hadn't started making them yet yet.

lostforawhile
02-04-2011, 06:17 PM
here's a shocker, my mount is 73 MM tall, the correct height according to what Cygnus found out:


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download310.jpg

I'm thinking whats happening is instead of selling separate mounts for the different years, they just assume all of this generation is the same, and sell one mount for all of them, I have the correct stamped bracket for my 86, the mount is just wrong, every mount i've been able to get my hands on is this height. I've been trying to figure out for a long time why my engine sat cockeyed, I've swapped mounts, done everything I could, and it was just the wrong dam mount. what I've done until I get the urethane, is machine a pin with threads in the top, the pin sets the motor mount bracket at 73mm, installed height, right now it's 1/8 of an inch taller then it's supposed to be, I had made this bracket to what the mount at advance measured, and I had to machine an inch out of it, after I got the correct height from Cygnus.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download311.jpg

it's a miracle!! the engine sits level!!


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download312.jpg

Dr_Snooz
02-05-2011, 10:13 AM
Could this be what causes the infamous B20 lean? I think my A20 sits cockeyed too.

lostforawhile
02-05-2011, 11:01 AM
Could this be what causes the infamous B20 lean? I think my A20 sits cockeyed too.

it could be causing it, i'll be glad when cygnus gets the mount adapter he designed rolling, it takes the urethane mount from energy suspension. I was going to use one for a rear mount, i think the cast bracket can be bolted on to bring the engine level also

cygnus x-1
02-05-2011, 01:31 PM
Damn you Honda!! Damn you!! [shakes fist in the air]

In the last year for the 3g they just HAD to throw a wrench into things. :banghead:


Nice work on the DIY poly mount though, and I'm glad my measurements helped out. I'm interested to see how the casting works out and what the durometer ends up like. A softer grade of poly would be nice for a street car mount to keep the vibration down some. Any idea about the shrinkage you'll get while it's curing?


Kinda sucks that there is a taller mount out there though. That means the ones I'm making won't work directly in place of those. But I think it should be possible to use the stamped type bracket instead of the cast one to correct the height.
Cool stuff.

C|

lostforawhile
02-05-2011, 02:28 PM
Damn you Honda!! Damn you!! [shakes fist in the air]

In the last year for the 3g they just HAD to throw a wrench into things. :banghead:


Nice work on the DIY poly mount though, and I'm glad my measurements helped out. I'm interested to see how the casting works out and what the durometer ends up like. A softer grade of poly would be nice for a street car mount to keep the vibration down some. Any idea about the shrinkage you'll get while it's curing?


Kinda sucks that there is a taller mount out there though. That means the ones I'm making won't work directly in place of those. But I think it should be possible to use the stamped type bracket instead of the cast one to correct the height.
Cool stuff.

C|yea i think you swap in either the cast bracket or the stamped depending on which mount they give you, as far as I know both cars have the same cross member and the same block, so the only variable is the bracket. if you make the mount to the 73 mm, all they would need to make it fit where the taller mount is, is a spacer. as far as mine, from what i've seen with this poly used, it really doesn't shrink. it's not really a mold, the aluminum piece is the mount, it just gets filled with poly, the pin for the finished mount is a little shorter then the inside, and gets a large washer on the bottom, it basically "floats" in the poly until it cures. then it's locked in place. the round aluminum piece is hollow inside. thats where the poly goes, it has to be watertight during curing, because the unhardened material is like motor oil. I still need to drill and tap for a 1/8 pipe thread at the top, i'll do something with a funnel to screw in to fill it. I'll be using the mid durometer material which is in the 80's range and close to energy suspensions flexibility

carotman
02-06-2011, 05:00 PM
I had a similar problem when I made my own mount regarding the height.

So, is mass production on your minds guys?

lostforawhile
02-06-2011, 05:21 PM
I had a similar problem when I made my own mount regarding the height.

So, is mass production on your minds guys?
I know cygnus is going to sell his, but I don't think mine would be cost effective

cygnus x-1
02-07-2011, 09:53 PM
I had a similar problem when I made my own mount regarding the height.

So, is mass production on your minds guys?


I'm definitely going to be mass producing mine. I have all the parts now, it's just been a challenge finding time to work on them. Should be fairly soon though I think.

C|

DBMaster
02-08-2011, 09:52 AM
^I'm sure you'll start a thread when you're ready, but I may be interested as long as the vibration isn't any worse than with the stock mount.

lostforawhile
02-08-2011, 03:31 PM
i'll be getting one of his mounts too for the rear mount

carotman
02-09-2011, 12:18 PM
I'll get one of these too.

MessyHonda
02-10-2011, 12:33 AM
i bet these mounts will help alot in performance engines...I saw when my car was dynoed and the engine sure likes to move alot on its stock mounts

jreed8484
02-14-2011, 08:34 PM
good job on the motor mount brother, i got so tired of the oem replacements breaking!

forrest89sei
02-14-2011, 08:40 PM
Oooooh yeeeah! No More Broken Motor Mounts! "Best there is... past, present and future! Ohhhhh yeahhhh!"

cubert
02-14-2011, 08:43 PM
Oooooh yeeeah! No More Broken Motor Mounts! "Best there is... past, present and future! Ohhhhh yeahhhh!"


http://media.moddb.com/images/downloads/1/14/13531/img_151291_1.jpg