Automatic trans. leaks

[ADRIANFARINA]

the trans. is already out of the engine bay .
is it easy to open it and just renew the rtv between the casings? or do I have to take the inside out (gears, shafts ..) ?

any suggestions?

tnx

[2oodoor]

where is it leaking?
never use rtv anywhere on automatic transmissions, silcone would reak havoc on the shift valves and would also stop up screen filters. It makes its way into places, and remember how hard it is to get off your hands and clothes.

[Dr_Snooz]

Um, you don't want to open that case unless you're planning to do a full rebuild. Unless you ran it into something, it shouldn't be leaking. Why is it leaking and from where?

[ADRIANFARINA]

when I said rtv , I meant some oem BMW bonding stuff that I have (gray in colour).

btw,
the trans is leaking from between the trans. cases .. and some previous owner already filled it with rtv (that looks regular rtv).


what should I do?

[2oodoor]

find another transmission!
sounds like a headache especially if it doenst work out and you re installed the transmission:sad2:

yes the grey is good , I was going to mention that but really didnt want to lose my point about using rtv

[ADRIANFARINA]

my car is the only car imported to Israel (3G Accord) , I won't find another trans.
why is it such a headache?
is it so complicated to separate the cases a little bit and put the bonding paste?

[A18A]

it is a lot of effort to pull apart the case (well more effort than what it was worth to me lol) I would just clean it up as much as possible from the outside and whore it in some sealant of some kind. but that's just me lol...

[ADRIANFARINA]

this is how it looks like now..

[2oodoor]

it is a lot of effort to pull apart the case (well more effort than what it was worth to me lol) I would just clean it up as much as possible from the outside and whore it in some sealant of some kind. but that's just me lol...

good point, only thing though if it is a pressure leak that won't work too good.
I wonder if you cleaned the seam up real good and hit it with a file some then use epoxy or some other heat, solvent proof adhesive material.

[Dr_Snooz]

this is how it looks like now..

No pic?

Only you can answer your question. If you love the car and plan to keep it forever, then pull it apart and fix it properly. Buy a rebuild kit and go to town. This manual (http://honda.roadpwnage.com/manuals/pages/usdm-accord-1989-full.php) describes the teardown on p. 15-32 and following. You can see it's pretty involved. Better yet, make some friends on the board, get the parts you need and swap it over to a manual. If this is just a daily driver to get you to work for a couple years, then go as cheap as possible. Clean out the hole as best you can and smear it full of RTV. I would think RTV would hold well enough. There shouldn't be a lot of hydraulic pressure at the case (most of it is in the shafts), so RTV smeared around the outside might be fine. If RTV doesn't work, then you can consider something more robust and less reversible, like epoxy. That will definitely seal it, but you'll have issues when you go to rebuild it finally.

If you're really fond of the car and want to keep it for a long time, then you should consider another strategy for your daily driving. If parts are so hard to find, then this car will always be a terrible daily driver. You want something cheap with lots of parts available. Get something else to put miles on.

[88Accord-DX]

it is a lot of effort to pull apart the case (well more effort than what it was worth to me lol) I would just clean it up as much as possible from the outside and whore it in some sealant of some kind. but that's just me lol...


good point, only thing though if it is a pressure leak that won't work too good.
I wonder if you cleaned the seam up real good and hit it with a file some then use epoxy or some other heat, solvent proof adhesive material.

I was thinking along them lines too.. I'd probably use a die grinder on the seam & find something like JB Weld for aluminum to fill it in.. Most transmissions need to be partially dis-assembled to break it loose at the case... . It's not a good thing to pry the case apart unless your going to rebuild it, because more than likely something is going to break or fall out inside the trans. case..

[88Accord-DX]

^^^ That is 29 MB of madness Dr. Snooz. :naughty:

From looking at that manual, looks like he can pop the outer part of the case & seal it up. The second piece of the case (closest to torque converter) is not happening.

[Dr_Snooz]

^^^ That is 29 MB of madness Dr. Snooz. :naughty:

From looking at that manual, looks like he can pop the outer part of the case & seal it up. The second piece of the case (closest to torque converter) is not happening.

Correct. If you want to go deeper than the end cap, you have to disassemble the shafts. If you're going to do that, you might as well replace the clutches and steels while you're in there.

[ADRIANFARINA]

I've never opened an automatic one..:dunno:

[Dr_Snooz]

I was thinking some more about this thread and I'm really not convinced you have a case leak. There are really only two reasons you would be leaking from between the case halves. 1) somebody used a damaged gasket in a rebuild 2) the transmission sustained some kind of damage from impact. I'm even skeptical about #2. If the trans took enough force to make the gaskets leak, it would be enough to crack the case. I don't think you have a gasket leaking.

While you have the trans out, take the opportunity to replace all the seals (axle shafts and input shaft). It would be very unusual for the input shaft seal to leak, but replace it anyway. Also replace the dipstick oring. Finally, replace the crush washer for the drain bolt. That should be replaced every time you loosen the bolt. If you're leaking red oil, those are the things I would replace and I suspect those few things will fix your problem.

If you're leaking black oil, then I would also replace the valve cover gasket and distributor oring. If you're still leaking black oil after that, then I would start replacing oil pan gaskets, oil filter base gaskets and probably most of the PCV system.

Hope this helps.

Edit: also replace the engine rear main seal while you have the trans out. And for God's sake use GOOD (ie: Honda OEM) gaskets!

[ADRIANFARINA]

the engine is completely dismanteled and I bought a complete engine gasket kit .
the trans did suffer an impact , it is also welded .. (I'll upload pictures tomorrow).
all the oil retainers will be replaced on the engine and trans .

when I read the workshop manual , I see that it isn't so complicated to open the trans , I'll consider opening it..

[Dr_Snooz]

the engine is completely dismanteled and I bought a complete engine gasket kit .
the trans did suffer an impact , it is also welded .. (I'll upload pictures tomorrow).
all the oil retainers will be replaced on the engine and trans .

when I read the workshop manual , I see that it isn't so complicated to open the trans , I'll consider opening it..

Just for fun, make sure that the case bolts aren't loose before going further. If the case is indeed broken and leaking, I would replace the trans. MT swap, FTW.

Good luck. Sounds like you have your hands full there.

[carotman]

He is in Israel so a MT swap is out of the question.

If the transmission suffered some damage in the past, the 2 surfaces between the casing might not be 100% straight.

How bad is the leak?

[Dr_Snooz]

He is in Israel so a MT swap is out of the question.


Yeah, he keeps saying that, but somehow he's getting parts to build an engine, so I'm not convinced.

[ADRIANFARINA]

Ebay is my best friend ..
there is no problem ordering pistons and other smal parts , but to order a trans.... well , thats another story.

I think I'll cover the surfaces with jbweld..

[ADRIANFARINA]

where can I get the trans seals?

[88Accord-DX]

where can I get the trans seals?
From a Honda dealership, like Majestic. I would think Israel would have a Honda dealership.
E-mail them to see if they will ship overseas & will accept your form of payment. Here is their link below.

I would think you could get them straight from Japan living closer, but who knows.

www.hondaautomotiveparts.com

[ADRIANFARINA]

yes , we have Honda dealership , but Honda is imported since 1991 , so they are not obligated to stock older parts ... and probably won't have them.
it will be cheaper to order by myself.

thanks :cheers:

[ADRIANFARINA]

when I look into the oem parts catalogue , I see this mount (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280490091307&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT) , but didn't see it on my car , why?

[Dr_Snooz]

There should be a pin on the frame in the engine bay and another pin on the end of the AT. The mount ties those pins together.

What are you going to do about the leak?

[ADRIANFARINA]

I think I'll do the sealing from the outside .. :o

[88Accord-DX]

I think I'll do the sealing from the outside .. :o
Clean up the outside of the tranny case with some brake cleaner & rough the outer surface of the case up good. Good luck with that...

[ADRIANFARINA]

what should I spread on that?

[88Accord-DX]

Just try that foam first, then if that don't work, try some aluminum sealant that resist oil & chemicals. Probably not a good idea to use JB Weld in case you want to rebuild or have it rebuilt at some point in time.

[ADRIANFARINA]

the JB is so strong?

[88Accord-DX]

the JB is so strong?

It's how you apply it to the surface that makes it hard to remove is what I'm getting at. The rougher the surface the less chance of chipping it off... I've only used that stuff on interior parts here & there at an old job. I don't use it on critical parts of a vehicle. I'm not to sure how it holds up to oils & chemicals either.

[ADRIANFARINA]

I've looked on their site , they say it chimical resistant.
I think I'll get this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180617042345&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[88Accord-DX]

Since the transmission it out, replace the front pump seal too. Most transmission have a seal where the input shaft is. Seals the pump & torque convertor shaft.

[ADRIANFARINA]

already have the center shaft seal and driveshafts seals , what pump are we talking about?
you are not talking about the two o-rings that are on the converter , right?

[88Accord-DX]

already have the center shaft seal and driveshafts seals , what pump are we talking about?
you are not talking about the two o-rings that are on the converter , right?
After looking at that manual, this transmission uses an O-Ring on the convertor shaft instead of a seal mounted in the case... Replace that O-ring.. I only seen one.

[ADRIANFARINA]

http://www.3geez.com/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif

[ADRIANFARINA]

here is where it's welded
http://www.pic.co.il/Files/A389AD0CCF05407982435B032041DED6/orig_233FEA7FB42D496FB373D43C167D9AC9.JPG

[Dr_Snooz]

Why are you spending a bunch of money to rebuild an engine, only to put it in front of that wreck?

[ADRIANFARINA]

by saying wreck you reffer to the trans?
well , I have no other option at this moment and the trans performed quite good before the engin died..