Holley 2 Barrel carburetor, 2300 version not Weber / Holley version on a 1987 2.0?

[apache07x]

Has anyone tried fitting a Holley 2 Barrel to their Accord? You know the 350 / 500 cfm versions? I have a 1987 2.0 I've fit one onto and seems as if it's going to work. However, I'm getting another manifold I can port out some to match up a little better to the carburetor. It has a slight stutter when you level out with cruise on but I'm not sure if it is the jetting too lean or too restrictive of an opening on the intake manifold? Any ideas? May just need to be jetted up some but I figure porting out the manifold some can't hurt since right now it's like trying to pour a half gallon through a quart funnel all at once. If anyone has done this swap give me some insight on your jetting, pump cam, choke settings etc etc. I tried a Weber on this car and it just would not run. Think I just got a bad unit but I got jerked around so much by the vendor I finally just decided to make an adapter for the Holley I already had. Much better, runs and idles better than it ever has, 22.5 mpg and I haven't even tuned it out yet or put my header on. A little disappointing on the mileage but after I get it jetted and timed with the header on is when it will really matter. Figured out how to utilize both vacuum hoses and have them work on the dizzy too with the Holley.

[apache07x]

Have got this beast about done. Needs a little more work on the choke and jetting but it is close. Don't have any solid mileage numbers yet due to jet changes but I will share when I do if anyone is interested? I'll share photos as soon as I can.

[apache07x]

I need to have more posts before it will let me share photos....lol

[apache07x]

One thing I can say is this car runs a whole lot better than it ever did with the factory carburetor. At least since I had it but it had 154k on it or so when I got it too.

[apache07x]

I do have an extra intake manifold for one of these 2.0 carburetor engines if anyone is in need of one? PM me.

[apache07x]

Okay I think I can post pictures now. So here you go if interested?

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1112/imag0030tj.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/i/imag0030tj.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/8268/imag0031r.th.jpg (http://img848.imageshack.us/i/imag0031r.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Oldblueaccord]

Sweet I always wanted to try one but never can find a running carbed accord to fool with. I love the 2300 Holley!


wp

[2ndGenGuy]

That is amazing! What size is that carburetor? Nice work there!

[apache07x]

Thanks! It is a Holley 2 barrel. 350 CFM. The one I used is off of an old Ford with an automatic choke but a Holley part # 7448 would work fine as well. Maybe better? Running a jet size of 61 which may be a bit lean but it runs well enough and don't overheat. Getting about 18 - 19mpg in town and lot's of power I haven't had a chance to check highway mileage yet but hoping it gets 24 to 25 mpg. I think the 33mpg days I got with the stock carburetor are done.

Unfortunately I had to change the head too because I broke an exhaust bolt off that I couldn't get out of it. The head change in turn has apparently boosted my compression enough to make the bottom end start to knock since it's knocking now and it wasn't before. Hoping it was an exhaust leak or just because it's so loud now that I was hearing the exhaust reverberate but I'm leaning toward a knock now. :burn: Tired of working on this thing. I love this car and want to drive it not work on it all of the time.

[apache07x]

:redx:

[Buzo]

Thanks! It is a Holley 2 barrel. 350 CFM. The one I used is off of an old Ford with an automatic choke but a Holley part # 7448 would work fine as well. Maybe better? Running a jet size of 61 which may be a bit lean but it runs well enough and don't overheat. Getting about 18 - 19mpg in town and lot's of power I haven't had a chance to check highway mileage yet but hoping it gets 24 to 25 mpg. I think the 33mpg days I got with the stock carburetor are done.

Unfortunately I had to change the head too because I broke an exhaust bolt off that I couldn't get out of it. The head change in turn has apparently boosted my compression enough to make the bottom end start to knock since it's knocking now and it wasn't before. Hoping it was an exhaust leak or just because it's so loud now that I was hearing the exhaust reverberate but I'm leaning toward a knock now. :burn: Tired of working on this thing. I love this car and want to drive it not work on it all of the time.


You are doing a good job here, but 18-19 MPG are kind of low for the size of the car. Does the additional power you got worth the 15% fuel economy you lost? I tryed with a different holley, mine was 5200 and I thought the 18-19 MPG I got after the swap was because my holley was just old and worn out. But I see you are getting similar fuel economy and your carb looks newer than mine... mhhh... intersting.

[2ndGenGuy]

I have a feeling that 2300 carb is quite a bit bigger than the 5200 though. The 2300 is basically half a 4-barrel, I think. I'm curious what size the barrels are.

[2oodoor]

I really cant imagine that type of holley having any reasonable daily drivability.
good luck!

The issues you have to consider are all the circuits in that carb. The accelerator pump for one, squirts a massive amount of fuel in initially at off idle throttle. Then you're jetting , float level choices and power valve. A lot of gas metering there to be able to make work for any kind of economy or even consistant good drivability in all weather.

Full race, absolutley that carb can do the job just fine im sure. At least that carb is tunable and if you use some of the good Holley aftermarket support items like fancy metering blocks and power valve protectors, venturi booster selections, you may run into some good luck with mixed driving who knows....
Good work though!

[apache07x]

Well as far as drivabilaty it drives fine really no issues at all. Choke works correctly, takes off smoothly no hesitation in the pump the only issue I have had is when your full throttle into it at about 4k it want's to stutter but I've been having problems with the filters plugging due to somebody putting something in my tank which I'm about to drain. However, that could be a timing issue rather than a fuel issue. I've only drove it a couple hundred miles with it on there and really haven't been able to play with it much yet. I circle track race so tuning these carbs is second nature to me and I've always been able to make them work fine without a bunch of fancy aftermarket parts.

Mileage wise the 18 to 19 I've gotten has been in town driving and I tend to have a heavy foot so I don't think it's too bad. But I really don't know yet how bad it is? I work close to home now so I haven't got on the highway much with it and the one time I did I got 22.5 with it and it ran awful at that time. I'm expecting 24 or 25 with it and I'll be content with that considering that's about what I got with the stock carb most of the time. Got a bit better once in a while with the stock unit but not consistently. Not sure what the bore size is the only other 2300's I have are 500 CFM race carburetors which are bigger. CFM wise this one is a 350 CFM which is comparable to the webers. I believe when I get done it will get comparable mileage numbers to a weber, a lot more power when you need it and having had both on this car I can already say it drives a whole lot better than a weber does in my opinion.

[Oldblueaccord]

Just a FYI the Ford motorcraft carbs might be a little less than 350 cfm then that actual real Holley carb. It depends on the size of the butterflys.

i think the Holley 350 cfm is 1.5" and the 500 is 1 11/16". dunno anything about the fords.

wp

[apache07x]

Just to clarify this is an actual Holley carburetor and not a Motorcraft. While it is off of a Ford car you have to remember 50 years ago Holley actually made a lot of carburetors for production cars, including Fords, and this unit is a 350 CFM off of one of those.

As a side note I had one of my 500CFM race carbs on it for a few days and it actually seemed to run pretty good but I couldn't imagine fuel mileage would have been any good so I took it off. But it did have a lot of power. :rofl:

[apache07x]

Okay here is an update for you guys that have been following this and may be wondering how it's going? The aforementioned stutter I spoke of a couple of posts back was timing just as I suspected. It actually was advanced too far. Timing marks are either real dirty or about gone and my old eyes can hardly see what they say. My eyes are the biggest part of that problem but anyways the stutter appears to be gone. Still is running a bit rich so I may go down one or two size(s) on my jets. Here is what everyone is wondering still getting 18 in town but I took it for a 110 mile jaunt yesterday with about 15 to 20 of that being in town and I got 24.4 mpg. Not bad at all considering I got 25 or so with the original setup. Think it may still get a touch better than that but I cannot complain. Especially considering how much better it drives and runs. No more shaky idle or stalling or stumbling on take-off and the car always smelling of gas. I'm a pretty happy camper right now!

If anyone is wondering I just used a flat piece of aluminum plate from here, http://www.onlinemetals.com/merchant.cfm?pid=1250&step=4&showunits=inches&id=76&top_cat=60 , to make my adapter and cut it out with a hole saw and dremel. Counter sunk the bolt holes that bolt it to the intake for obvious reasons and purchased the hardware from Lowes and Advance auto parts. I'm running a 50cc pump with a blue pump cam, 28 squirter and 58 jets. Probably go down a touch on the jet size like I said as it smells a bit rich at stoplights and such.

I can't stress enough the importance of fixing all of your vacuum leaks on these things. I changed my head due to a different problem, busting a exhaust stud off in it, and of course changed the intake gasket because of it. Anyways what a difference in the way it runs because of a vacuum leak on the intake or a burnt valve. The engine now idles smooth in gear with lights on and my jet size so far has went from a 73 to a 58 on the carburetor. A huge, huge difference because of a small problem I refused to acknowledge.

[2oodoor]

Ive actually been looking at the off road Holley 4 bbl with adjustable secondaries as an alternative to a Weber one day. Not real close to that yet but it is good to have you on board for referencing. I am very interested in your results.
Are you using the vacuum advance the way oem set up does? It drives me nuts to not be able to set these cars up with vac advance coming on at tip in throttle like on a V8.
You really have to play around with the timing on these when you do any modifications and it is hard to get a medium point for all driving styles.
I hear you on the eyes bit, I live with my streamlight scrion led rechargable on my side like a sidearm.. lol
We used to use those 2300 Holleys on older fords with variable venturi MCU systems that just were not repairable or kept eating up diaphragms. They were sold as replacements for them at one time so there should be some in the yards if there not all crushed yet lol.

[apache07x]

Well been a while since I posted work has been keeping me real busy. A major problem I had that took me a while to fix was the timing was 1 tooth off. I knew it was but no time to fix. When I initially set it up I either looked at the service manual incorrectly or clicked on the wrong link. I had it set up for a manual transmission.....mine is an automatic. Needless to say, but I will anyways, that being off by one tooth made it run horrible after a bit since the compression being blown into the crankcase was in turn blowing oil from the vent into my air cleaner, which effectively plugged the air filter, and made the engine leak oil . Seems to run a whole lot better now that the motor is not fighting itself. Anyways will post some mileage results shortly now that it's running properly. I suspect they will be better. Hoping so at least.

Roodoo2 What I found on the distributor vacuum is this. Looking from the front of the car the front vacuum port is hooked to the timed vacuum port on the carburetor and I have the rear vacuum port on the distributor hooked to manifold vacuum. I tried both ways and this combination seems to work best.

Right now I have # 57 Jets in it, a # 28 squirter and a pink pump cam adjusted at 0.015 clearance warmed up at idle. I had 13.5 to 14 inches of vacuum at idle with my son in the car holding the brake with the car in park so I have a #65 power valve in her. It's close but still a little hesitant @ 3,500+ rpm and full throttle sometimes. Either I need to back the jetting down just a touch or advance the timing a little. It already starts a little hard from the timing being advanced so I'll probably jet it down a bit if the plugs indicate a rich condition. Since I generally don't dog on her anyways she run's fine the way she is for me but it could be a bit better. I love it though no more chugging and almost dying at idle like with the OEM carburetor smooth as glass at 800 rpm in gear. It's also a lot quieter now at idle and cruising speeds even with an open header unless your really into the throttle.

[2oodoor]

this is great, Im glad you posted your set up too..
idle smooth is a good thing, if you havn't already done it I would try taking the distributor out and taking it apart to clean and lube up the centrifigal advance parts.
Is your cam belt timing set up at TDC on the barely visable T scribe on the flywheel or one of the painted marks?

[apache07x]

Well Roodoo. My name is Steve BTW. I have it set on the mark before the T. The service manual I looked at said to set it up there for an automatic and it has made a huge difference. Before it was spark knocking really bad and in town on pump gas was getting 16 mpg. Now it has no spark knock and getting 21 mpg in town on pump gas. It is also pretty "peppy", for lack of a better term, since I hooked both distributor vacuum lines up correctly. Probably could use a different pump cam. But the pink one is really close. It has good response off the bottom end but seems to be a little fat/hesitant between 3500 to 4500 rpms when it warms up. Anxious to see what the highway mileage is. May have to take a little joy ride this weekend and find out? Yes the idle is smooth as glass even in gear at 700 RPMs!!!!!:eek: No more spitting and sputtering and carrying on like before the conversion. Heck it wouldn't even idle out of gear at 700 before I converted it. Before it was idling at 1100 in gear and 1400 in park and was spitting and sputtering the whole time.

[2oodoor]

Steve I wonder if that 3500 guff is the power valve transition fore or aft main jet flow. Does that carb have a port for vacuum to the power valve circut on the outside? Probably a dumb question but it seems like Ive run across that somewhere on another type of carb perhaps.

The advance came to mind too is why I mentioned cleaning it. Ive never read where you set up the cam timing two different ways depending upon transmission. Which mark is that, red, green, white...lol Also 3500 4500 rpm you should not see too much with that set up driving normal.

bet that things sounds like a beast, how is your transmission shifing doing, I assume you had to fiddle with the TV cable to suit your foot positioning?

[apache07x]

Steve I wonder if that 3500 guff is the power valve transition fore or aft main jet flow. Does that carb have a port for vacuum to the power valve circut on the outside? Probably a dumb question but it seems like Ive run across that somewhere on another type of carb perhaps.

The advance came to mind too is why I mentioned cleaning it. Ive never read where you set up the cam timing two different ways depending upon transmission. Which mark is that, red, green, white...lol Also 3500 4500 rpm you should not see too much with that set up driving normal.

bet that things sounds like a beast, how is your transmission shifing doing, I assume you had to fiddle with the TV cable to suit your foot positioning?

Roodoo No the power valve vacuum is internal and you know when it's kicking in. It comes in so hard it almost seems like a 4 barrel opening up...lol But that is a transition area for the carb and maybe it's too much fuel when it's warmed up? Maybe I'll try a blue cam again? I was trying to get away from the 50cc pump. But yeah I'm not much worried about it in the 3500 to 4500 range only time it sees that is if I'm pulling out in front of someone or showing the little punk kid next to me that thinks his car is hot stuff.....that his car really isn't too hot and leave him sitting scratching his head at the light.

It did seem odd to me why an automatic would be timed differently than a manual? Only thing I can figure is that the way the timing marker bolts to the different flywheel. This is a link to where I found the service manual online http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual.html and if you download the ZIP file for the engine section it's on picture 6-16. It says to set it right on the T for a manual and the mark before TDC for an automatic? I have no idea why but it works on my car?


Man it sounds sweet. My fiance took it yesterday from work. We switched accords after lunch. First time I heard it take off running correctly with the header on it and it sounds really, really good. Driving down the road it's actually quite in the cabin unless you hammer down on it. But I would never do that....:D

Didn't have to do anything to the TV cable and it shifts perfect. Just dumb luck there as I have no idea where that cable is on my car. It doesn't hook to the carb like it does some so I'm glad it shifts good since I was tired of letting off of the gas all the time to shift with the OEM carburetor.

[2oodoor]

That's cool, hammer down and listen to the old school howl !

You're lucky if the TV cable wound up close with all the different configurations, mine are quite sensative usually with the webers. You want it so it does stay in lock up at around 60 and not keep coming out of it with no real changes in throttle position. And you want it to downshift upon a toggle of the throttle, but not too early or two gears down.
I don't know if it would be the accel pump at that high rpm. How is it with the bowl, does is slosh back since it is on the front wheel drive? An issue the the webers if you sling the car it can die out momentarlly. That is why I was so interested in the Holley Avenger series.
You do good work!

[lostforawhile]

I really cant imagine that type of holley having any reasonable daily drivability.
good luck!

The issues you have to consider are all the circuits in that carb. The accelerator pump for one, squirts a massive amount of fuel in initially at off idle throttle. Then you're jetting , float level choices and power valve. A lot of gas metering there to be able to make work for any kind of economy or even consistant good drivability in all weather.

Full race, absolutley that carb can do the job just fine im sure. At least that carb is tunable and if you use some of the good Holley aftermarket support items like fancy metering blocks and power valve protectors, venturi booster selections, you may run into some good luck with mixed driving who knows....
Good work though!he should be able to change the accelerator pump for less fuel, as far as the stutter, you said you had both hoses hooked up at the dizzy? the only one you need is the advance, the other diaphragm retards the timing on start up, this makes it easier to start the car, if both are hooked to vacuum, it could be doing strange things to your timing, on my setup, i used an extra self venting solenoid from the control box, it only allows vacuum to the retard diaphragm while the starter is cranking the engine

[apache07x]

Lostforawhile I have heard different reasons for there being 2 vacuum ports on the distributor and not sure which is correct? I am assuming your correct in stating that one just retards timing on start-up and doesn't really need to be hooked up full time. With that assumption can you please tell me which port on the distributor is supposed to be hooked up to vacuum all of the time? Toward front of motor or rear? No one can seem to say which needs to be hooked up to vacuum full time? The hesitation at 3500 rpms or so does feel timing related more-so than fuel and if the dizzy is hooked up wrong well there I go. I would really appreciate if you could tell me which one is the correct one to have hooked up?

Roodoo as far as running out of fuel like with a Weber this one doesn't do it. I have a center hung fuel bowl which is the same setup I run on my Ford Mustang 4 cylinder I use on the circle track which obviously gets a lot more jostling around than our street machines.

I think with the TV cable I'm not having to accelerate as hard as I did with the OEM carburetor or the Weber and that's why I'm not having problems? With the Weber and OEM carburetors I was at 1/3 to 1/2 throttle at 60. I don't even give this Holley half throttle to get going unless I'm hot dogging it and cruising at 60 I'm at about an 1/8 of throttle. There is the difference probably? I used to get the kicking in and out on the converter with the OEM all of the time. The Weber well I didn't keep that **** on there long enough to notice but it probably would have too.

I feel the Holley 2300 series is a far superior carburetor. I know some people will say otherwise but that's my opinion and I've had both, just on this Honda as a matter of fact, and there is zero comparison. The Holley runs a lot better. The Weber did have good acceleration from a stop and that's all I can give it. However, overall running down the road the Weber was worse running than the OEM carburetor. Seriously!!!! Maybe I got a bad one but if that's the case every one I've ever got has been a bad one.

I know people will think I changed a lot of stuff to get the Holley running right but I didn't. I made an adapter plate took the carburetor off of my race car and bolted it to this Honda and it ran perfect. As a matter of fact on a dead stop it would squeal the front tires. The 350 cfm street carburetor I have on it now won't do that but I'm not complaining this carburetor runs, drives, idles and accelerates very well.....but it's no 500 cfm race carburetor :D. However, I'll take the 350's fuel economy over the 500's sheer power any day. Plus I am still tuning on this 350 when I got time to so I'm not done. My race carburetor on the other hand well I've had lot's of time at the race track to get it dialed in to be very responsive to foot input plus that's what it's made to do. The 350 is supposed to be a good running street carburetor and that is exactly what it does.


I remember someone saying I would get awful mileage and no drive-ability out of this Holley. I'm not picking at you by any means but not only have I gotten good mileage but I've exceeded, by far I may add, the mileage I got with the Weber. I'm getting better mileage with this Holley in town than I did with the Weber on the highway for the 3 or 4 god awful weeks I had it on there. Drive-ability well like I said earlier in my rant ZERO comparison. The Holley is far superior, in my humble opinion, in every way.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions guys hope one of you can tell me which vacuum port on the dizzy is the right one to have hooked up?

[lostforawhile]

i can't remember off the top of my head, it's probably in a sticky in the carb section , anyone?:uh:

[cygnus x-1]

The Holley runs a lot better. The Weber did have good acceleration from a stop and that's all I can give it. However, overall running down the road the Weber was worse running than the OEM carburetor. Seriously!!!! Maybe I got a bad one but if that's the case every one I've ever got has been a bad one.

Which Weber(s) are you comparing to? When I was running a DGAS 38 the driveability was absolutely fantastic. Mileage was around 25ish with fairly aggressive driving, which is how I tended to drive it most of the time. It took a fair amount of tuning with a WBO2 to get it that way though.



Thanks for your comments and suggestions guys hope one of you can tell me which vacuum port on the dizzy is the right one to have hooked up?

One port is for normal vac advance and the other is for cold start advance. You can use both or just the normal advance and plug the cold port. To find which one is which you can try each one with the engine idling and see how the timing is affected.


C|

[apache07x]

Which Weber(s) are you comparing to? When I was running a DGAS 38 the driveability was absolutely fantastic. Mileage was around 25ish with fairly aggressive driving, which is how I tended to drive it most of the time. It took a fair amount of tuning with a WBO2 to get it that way though.




One port is for normal vac advance and the other is for cold start advance. You can use both or just the normal advance and plug the cold port. To find which one is which you can try each one with the engine idling and see how the timing is affected.


C|

I was running the Weber 32/36 DGEV brand new out of the box. The one that is the same as the Holley 5200 that came on the Mustang and Pinto 4 and 6 cylinders. While it was the first actual Weber I dealt with I've worked on plenty of Pintos, Mustangs, Aries and other dodges that had the 5200 on them and they have all been horrible. I think their junk and no one is going to convince me different. Not even the president of Weber of America who I've sent numerous emails back and forth with trying to figure out what was wrong with the one I had. I finally sent it back. Millage was horrible, surged at highway speeds just would not run for me at all I'd fix one symptom and something else would falter. IDK maybe I'm just a Holley man and I know how to work on them and the Weber wasn't going to make me happy no matter what. But I did have a very bad experience with Weber and it's left a horrible taste in my mouth. I can't even say Weber in my house or my fiance goes to swinging lol. Not really but almost.



Thank you and I believe I got it figured out on the advance. Seems to be the one closest to the distributor or the rear one looking from the front of the engine and it likes full vacuum on it more than the timed vacuum coming from the carburetor. Either manifold or timed carburetor vacuum works but the manifold vacuum works the best on mine. It works well with both hooked up too I guess its a matter of personal preference. Bottom end seems to work better with both hooked up but with just the rear one hooked up the hesitation is gone in the 3500 to 4500 range. I'm assuming the motor likes the extra timing on take off but not in the middle RPM range. I think I will run both I like the better take off myself. Wish there was a way to drop the timed vacuum off of the carburetor in the higher RPMs so I could have my cake and eat it too!

[2oodoor]

Ive run several different Webers and never had any problems other than having to tweak the air mixture a small turn to get best idle during weather temp changes, about fifteen second job.

I am very pleased to hear your succussfull results with your Holley, seriously.
I was catching up on reading this thread and was going to say just tee off the and use both fittings on the advance "lol" may the strong survive.

I love my 38 weber which is the same one cygnus is talking about, I bought his.
I hope you continue to post your results. Your old school too but using a wideband would be fun tuning your 350.

[lostforawhile]

Which Weber(s) are you comparing to? When I was running a DGAS 38 the driveability was absolutely fantastic. Mileage was around 25ish with fairly aggressive driving, which is how I tended to drive it most of the time. It took a fair amount of tuning with a WBO2 to get it that way though.




One port is for normal vac advance and the other is for cold start advance. You can use both or just the normal advance and plug the cold port. To find which one is which you can try each one with the engine idling and see how the timing is affected.


C|
one is for advance and one retards the timing on startup, i just can't remember which is which, you don't want both hooked up. if you have an MSD box with timing controls, many of the boxes do the same thing it just makes it easier to get the engine to start initially

[cygnus x-1]

one is for advance and one retards the timing on startup, i just can't remember which is which, you don't want both hooked up. if you have an MSD box with timing controls, many of the boxes do the same thing it just makes it easier to get the engine to start initially


Hmm, my service manual says it advances the timing. I've also verified it by looking at how the plunger moves when vacuum is applied. But this is for a Prelude (A18A1) so I suppose it could be different on the A20.


Anyway you want manifold vacuum and not timed vacuum. The amount of advance applied is inversely proportional to manifold pressure. At idle and low throttle the timing is advanced to improve fuel mileage and driveability. As the throttle is opened more the manifold pressure drops thereby lowering the extra advance. At full throttle there is NO advance applied. Keep in mind this is completely independent of the mechanical (centrifugal) advance which is RPM dependent, and increases with RPM.

I can tell you from my own experience that these engines LOVE off idle and low throttle advance. Mid and high throttle timing seems to not be so critical. One other thing you might check is if the diaphragms leak. Every one that I have ever seen leaks at least a little bit. If it leaks bad it might be affecting things.


C|

[lostforawhile]

Hmm, my service manual says it advances the timing. I've also verified it by looking at how the plunger moves when vacuum is applied. But this is for a Prelude (A18A1) so I suppose it could be different on the A20.


Anyway you want manifold vacuum and not timed vacuum. The amount of advance applied is inversely proportional to manifold pressure. At idle and low throttle the timing is advanced to improve fuel mileage and driveability. As the throttle is opened more the manifold pressure drops thereby lowering the extra advance. At full throttle there is NO advance applied. Keep in mind this is completely independent of the mechanical (centrifugal) advance which is RPM dependent, and increases with RPM.

I can tell you from my own experience that these engines LOVE off idle and low throttle advance. Mid and high throttle timing seems to not be so critical. One other thing you might check is if the diaphragms leak. Every one that I have ever seen leaks at least a little bit. If it leaks bad it might be affecting things.


C|
exactly, these dizzys are calibrated for manifold vacuum, even the setup of the mechanical advance takes this into account, some dizzys use timed vacuum ports, but they are calibrated differently , my SU carbs have a timed vacuum port off of one carb, but it will be blocked off in my case

[2oodoor]

that is something I had a hard time adjusting to, using manifold vacuum for the vac advance. Every other vehicle except a few weird smog controlled Fords have used carb ported vacuum to make the vac advance come in at off throttle and not on at idle.
I never did hook up the vac advance on the LX, just have the base timing up a good bit and it seems happy.
Also I am not sure if the carbed dist. are made like the FI ones in that the "breaker plate" is set on a ball bearing turnstyle. Cleaning all that up and some nice machine oil on it made a world of difference on my FI car. Time to do the same with the other one.
I did have a ghost intermitant issue on one of the Hondas I had where it turned out to be the vac advance leaking vacuum. This possibly could cause that 3500 rpm nudge youre feeling too Steve. My issue was at idle though, it would randomly just fall out stalling. It was like the diaphragm would settle in the housing crooked and let it leak by, more so than being busted or having a hole in it.

[apache07x]

Just took a 100 mile plus highway drive for the first time since I got the bugs worked out for the most part....28.1 mpg

[apache07x]

Just took a 100 mile plus highway drive for the first time since I got the bugs worked out for the most part....28.1 mpg

That's as good as the OEM carburetor on 87 octane and pushing a GT front clip now too I can't complain

[TotaledTL]

I was running the Weber 32/36 DGEV brand new out of the box. The one that is the same as the Holley 5200 that came on the Mustang and Pinto 4 and 6 cylinders. While it was the first actual Weber I dealt with I've worked on plenty of Pintos, Mustangs, Aries and other dodges that had the 5200 on them and they have all been horrible. I think their junk and no one is going to convince me different. Not even the president of Weber of America who I've sent numerous emails back and forth with trying to figure out what was wrong with the one I had. I finally sent it back. Millage was horrible, surged at highway speeds just would not run for me at all I'd fix one symptom and something else would falter. IDK maybe I'm just a Holley man and I know how to work on them and the Weber wasn't going to make me happy no matter what. But I did have a very bad experience with Weber and it's left a horrible taste in my mouth. I can't even say Weber in my house or my fiance goes to swinging lol. Not really but almost.

Thank you and I believe I got it figured out on the advance. Seems to be the one closest to the distributor or the rear one looking from the front of the engine and it likes full vacuum on it more than the timed vacuum coming from the carburetor. Either manifold or timed carburetor vacuum works but the manifold vacuum works the best on mine. It works well with both hooked up too I guess its a matter of personal preference. Bottom end seems to work better with both hooked up but with just the rear one hooked up the hesitation is gone in the 3500 to 4500 range. I'm assuming the motor likes the extra timing on take off but not in the middle RPM range. I think I will run both I like the better take off myself. Wish there was a way to drop the timed vacuum off of the carburetor in the higher RPMs so I could have my cake and eat it too!

This had me worried because I was in the process of putting on a Weber when I read it. Completed it yesterday & so far it's running fine. Idle is much smoother. Hope to post some pics, etc. real soon.

[apache07x]

This had me worried because I was in the process of putting on a Weber when I read it. Completed it yesterday & so far it's running fine. Idle is much smoother. Hope to post some pics, etc. real soon.

Good luck with it. I hope it runs well for you. Personally I've never had good luck with them so I refuse to ever run one or attempt to again. I'll walk first. But hey lots of people on here have had good luck with them but I've shown there is a better alternative. Holley carburetors are a lot more readily available, I got proof they get as good or better mileage if set up right and plenty of power. Try to do a search on ebay for a Holley 2 barrel and a weber of any kind and you'll see Holley is the king!

[g.frost]

28 mpg highway, must be an automatic.

[cygnus x-1]

Good luck with it. I hope it runs well for you. Personally I've never had good luck with them so I refuse to ever run one or attempt to again. I'll walk first. But hey lots of people on here have had good luck with them but I've shown there is a better alternative. Holley carburetors are a lot more readily available, I got proof they get as good or better mileage if set up right and plenty of power. Try to do a search on ebay for a Holley 2 barrel and a weber of any kind and you'll see Holley is the king!


Holley's will certainly be more available in the US.

It is entirely possible you got a bad Weber. From what I've heard the newer Weber castings are not so great since they started making them in Spain instead of Italy. And actually according to Roodoo the 38/38 I sold him has a casting flaw that I never knew about. Fortunately he found a way to fix it.

As far as those Pintos and Mustangs go, well, you can pretty much guarantee those carbs were made to a price point and not to a quality point. So it's no surprise they suck.


C|

[apache07x]

28 mpg highway, must be an automatic.

Yes it is an automatic and it's got the aftermarket GT front on it as well which is comparable to pushing a wall going down the road. But you think 28 is a bad number?

[apache07x]

Holley's will certainly be more available in the US.

It is entirely possible you got a bad Weber. From what I've heard the newer Weber castings are not so great since they started making them in Spain instead of Italy. And actually according to Roodoo the 38/38 I sold him has a casting flaw that I never knew about. Fortunately he found a way to fix it.

As far as those Pintos and Mustangs go, well, you can pretty much guarantee those carbs were made to a price point and not to a quality point. So it's no surprise they suck.


C|

I could have got a bad casting. I blew casting sand or something out of it several times. Not sure what it was but it looked almost like beach sand? Yeah I'm sure the 5200's were not built as well as a normal Weber would be since they were a leased / rented casting by Holley who probably didn't care and wasn't happy about having to using them. I suppose my experience with them all as a whole has left me jaded a bit. I' like the Holley 2300 series, I'm get 28 mpg on the highway and happy as can be about it. I really don't think 28 mpg is a bad number is it? I probably can get it a little better with some more tuning on both the carburetor and timing but why bother when it runs well and I'm not going to get a whole lot more out of it?

[apache07x]

Roodoo - I know you were saying something about using a 4 barrel. What were you thinking about a 390 Holley or something like that? I guess if you used a small one and kept your foot out of it you would get decent mileage....probably better than a 2 barrel?

[cygnus x-1]

28MPG is not spectacular but it's certainly not bad either. So much of your fuel mileage depends on how you drive, the type of driving, and even the weather, so it's hard to compare to other people's mileage. You could probably tune it and get more but if you don't drive a lot of miles it might not be worth it. You would need to work the numbers and calculate how long it would take to recoup any more investment in it.

Anybody know what the original EPA mileage ratings were for these cars?


C|

[apache07x]

28MPG is not spectacular but it's certainly not bad either. So much of your fuel mileage depends on how you drive, the type of driving, and even the weather, so it's hard to compare to other people's mileage. You could probably tune it and get more but if you don't drive a lot of miles it might not be worth it. You would need to work the numbers and calculate how long it would take to recoup any more investment in it.

Anybody know what the original EPA mileage ratings were for these cars?


C|


Below are the EPA numbers I found and I'm getting 21 in town and 28 highway so that's the same in town and a tiny bit better on the highway.

1987 Honda Accord 4 cyl, 2.0 L, Automatic 4-spd, Regular Gasoline

21 City

23 Combined

27 Highway

This is the link where I found them.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/1987_Honda_Accord.shtml

[2oodoor]

Roodoo - I know you were saying something about using a 4 barrel. What were you thinking about a 390 Holley or something like that? I guess if you used a small one and kept your foot out of it you would get decent mileage....probably better than a 2 barrel?

yes something like a 570 avenger or 390 4150 series, I don't know if those would get better mpg but would be more interesting.

28 is not a bad number at all, Im sure you can get more with some fine tuning on the car itself as well as the tune, but what the heck take a break and enjoy the fruits of your labor a while it's getting hot.

Another alternative 2 bbl I was wondering would work, a Mercarb that comes on a mercruiser 4 cyl. Slightly resembles a GM Rochester 2G. About the only one that hasn't been documented here as trail.

[apache07x]

yes something like a 570 avenger or 390 4150 series, I don't know if those would get better mpg but would be more interesting.

28 is not a bad number at all, Im sure you can get more with some fine tuning on the car itself as well as the tune, but what the heck take a break and enjoy the fruits of your labor a while it's getting hot.

Another alternative 2 bbl I was wondering would work, a Mercarb that comes on a mercruiser 4 cyl. Slightly resembles a GM Rochester 2G. About the only one that hasn't been documented here as trail.

I thought about a Rochester but there are so many variations plus I just worked on the Holleys so much with the race car their familiar. I didn't think 28 was bad either especially after looking at the EPA numbers. With a little more tuning, it smells a bit rich still, and paint on it to slicken it up some I'm sure will help. The front bumper I have on it is no where near as aerodynamic as stock I'm sure and with just primer on it......I figure with a good paint job and some wax I'm good for a bit more mpg's with just that being done. Roodoo I'm not the only one who's enjoying it. My fiance came and got it from me at work today to do a small road trip with it...lol so it must be running good.

[g.frost]

The high geared DX 5 spd manual transmission makes a difference in gas mileage. In 5th gear at 65mph is turning 2600rpm. (4th gear at 75mph is 3500rpm)

At 65-70mph on the highway it is no problem getting 34+mpg any day every day. I get 28mpg in summer just driving around town, not quite as good in the winter.
No, not hot footing the old thing, but not trying to hyper-mile either.

I've had the car since new, know how it's supposed to run, still on the oem carb. 155k miles, I've had some issues with it but carb's never been opened up.

(ok better shut up or it will decide it's time to mess up on me)

[apache07x]

The high geared DX 5 spd manual transmission makes a difference in gas mileage. In 5th gear at 65mph is turning 2600rpm. (4th gear at 75mph is 3500rpm)

At 65-70mph on the highway it is no problem getting 34+mpg any day every day. I get 28mpg in summer just driving around town, not quite as good in the winter.
No, not hot footing the old thing, but not trying to hyper-mile either.

I've had the car since new, know how it's supposed to run, still on the oem carb. 155k miles, I've had some issues with it but carb's never been opened up.

(ok better shut up or it will decide it's time to mess up on me)

My OEM carb never did run quite right but it did get good mileage at first. I got the car at around 150k and at around 188k it just gave up was blowing black smoke and literally flooding out at stop lights / signs, mileage like an SUV... In hindsight maybe I should have just got a rebuilt OEM. The reason I did it at first was to try and save a few $, my step dad who is a retired mechanic said the OEM carbs were always trouble and it just cleaned up all of the mess of vacuum lines and controls from under the hood.

[g.frost]

Don't want to de-rail your thread on the Holly here. May be it can be tuned a bit leaner for better mpg, but should compare to an automatic to be realistic about it. A smog test will tell how lean you are running....

I had to replace the choke opener and a thermovalve on my carb. Runaway Idle and running rich. The choke wants to close if there is a vac leak anywhere in this part of the vac system. Very bad to run an engine like this; it causes oil wash down, cylinder/ring wear, deposits, and fuel dilution in the oil.

[apache07x]

Don't want to de-rail your thread on the Holly here. May be it can be tuned a bit leaner for better mpg, but should compare to an automatic to be realistic about it. A smog test will tell how lean you are running....

I had to replace the choke opener and a thermovalve on my carb. Runaway Idle and running rich. The choke wants to close if there is a vac leak anywhere in this part of the vac system. Very bad to run an engine like this; it causes oil wash down, cylinder/ring wear, deposits, and fuel dilution in the oil.

I really hate to mess with it any more...lol But a smaller pump cam and 1 jet size smaller probably won't hurt it any. I think a good slick paint job on her and not having the front half of it primered will help out for a mile or two a gallon though.

[apache07x]

Haven't been on in a while guys due to being sick and not even really wanting to work much-less tinker with the Honda. Anyways we've been getting a lot of afternoon showers here lately in Florida and I took notice the first afternoon it rained that the car seemed a lot more responsive. Knowing that the colder, denser air charge was giving it more power probably meant it was running a bit rich I went to get some 55's to replace the 57's in it. The speed shop had 54's so that's what I went with and also went back to the blue pump cam adjusted to a snug 0.015. As usual with a Holley it still smells rich at idle but is noticeably more responsive with the throttle and seems to not only idle and run better but so far also seems to hot start better. Don't know any mileage yet but I'd suspect it to be a bit better than before. At least I'm hoping so. With the 57's I was always getting 18 to 20 in town depending on how heavy my foot was and slightly better than 28 on the highway.

On a side note I have a different spoiler on my car than most. I've only seen one other 86 - 89 Accord have the same style. Then while taking a walk one afternoon I spotted a Pontiac Fiero with the same style spoiler as mine. So I found one for a Fiero on ebay that needs a little TLC but was cheap. I just mention this in case any of you guys have a busted spoiler like I did and can't find the proper one to replace it, this may be an option for you too. Now that I seem to be feeling a bit better I hope to work a few hours a weekend on the body and get it all smooth as well as finish putting the ground effects kit on it and possibly a functional hood scoop. Oh and fixing the air either I'm getting too old to take the heat or it's awfully hot this summer. Pictures will follow! I think mechanically I got it pretty well beat in shape. New ball joints, CV axles, ALL the front brakes, and lot's of under hood work. Now I'm back to enjoying driving it instead of wanting to sell it.

[apache07x]

You are doing a good job here, but 18-19 MPG are kind of low for the size of the car. Does the additional power you got worth the 15% fuel economy you lost? I tryed with a different holley, mine was 5200 and I thought the 18-19 MPG I got after the swap was because my holley was just old and worn out. But I see you are getting similar fuel economy and your carb looks newer than mine... mhhh... intersting.

Buzo I'm getting a lot better now I had this thing adjusted way too rich when I initially put this Carburetor on. I'm getting 22 in town now which is the majority of my driving. Not sure what highway is yet but I'm going to guess 29 with my latest tweaks or so I hope. But if it stays at 28 that's not bad and I do less highway than in town.

Anyways been trying to get this body fixed up and here's a few pics of it. Know this is the carb section but just figured I would share what it looks like.

BEFORE

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/2641/img00103201005091452.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/img00103201005091452.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

AFTER

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/7031/imag0072ug.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/98/imag0072ug.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6378/imag0071yw.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/imag0071yw.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/4910/imag0069kk.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/64/imag0069kk.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[2oodoor]

Good Work! Im glad you're back in the groove, heh Im using a Saturn spoiler which was difficult to mount but it was free. It looks good on the car only because of the offset of my wheels, looks goofy with regular wheels though.

[apache07x]

Good Work! Im glad you're back in the groove, heh Im using a Saturn spoiler which was difficult to mount but it was free. It looks good on the car only because of the offset of my wheels, looks goofy with regular wheels though.

Thanks Roodoo I think the Fiero spoiler looks pretty good on it. I've seen some goofy looking ones on these cars and figured I'd find a stock one like mine or stumble across something that looked good for the car as long as I was patient. The Fiero spoiler is definitely a good alternative if that's the type of spoiler you have / had. It was cheap enough and close to looking like the factory one. Only an inch wider and about double the length but it has the same curves and contours as the stock one did. Was a little tricky getting to the back screws but a long 1/4 inch extension with some paper over the screw head and jammed into the socket to keep the screw from falling out worked just fine.

[3rdgenhatch]

hello there.i am planning on installing a holley 2300 series 2 barrel on my civic. d13a2. im wondering what you did with that box with all the vacuum hoses going to it. im sorry, dont know what its called. what does that box control? how did you remove that box? and what did you do with all the wires coming out the other side?

thanks

[apache07x]

hello there.i am planning on installing a holley 2300 series 2 barrel on my civic. d13a2. im wondering what you did with that box with all the vacuum hoses going to it. im sorry, dont know what its called. what does that box control? how did you remove that box? and what did you do with all the wires coming out the other side?

thanks

That box is just a bunch of vacuum controls and relays with hoses running mainly to the carburetor. I just took it off and threw it in the dumpster at work. The wires were just plugs that no longer control anything so I didn't do anything with them other than unplug them. A few vacuum hoses you'll have to trace, like cruise control if you want it to work and hook up to a new vacuum source but all in all it's pretty straight forward.

[A20A1]

Ive actually been looking at the off road Holley 4 bbl with adjustable secondaries as an alternative to a Weber one day.

You don't know how jealous I'd be if you had a 4bbl before me. I can't wait to have a 3g again.

[apache07x]

You don't know how jealous I'd be if you had a 4bbl before me. I can't wait to have a 3g again.

It's back to having a Weber on it now and sitting in the garage collecting dust. Probably won't get a 4 barrel, I like the 32 mpg too much when I do drive it. I may even sell it. Like my Hatch better.