exhaust smoke

[gp02a0083]

ok so on the 18th my front driver lower ball joint failed , causing me to replace the lower ball join , axle and the strut. after fixing this I found that the old axle put a dime sized hole in the back of the pan.

i got a new pan, nothing internally looked damaged at all. my father had a hard time getting the hose back on that connects from the back of the oil pan to a little black box behind the engine. needless to say he tried removing it and we didn't , we cut the hose 1/2 inch short and it installed fine. We let the car run for at least a 1/2 hour and i drove it to my house. this was on Friday, i drove the car around all day Saturday and Sunday. I just left my job about an hour ago and i have a smoke screen coming out the tail pipe. I shut the engine off , checked the oil level and it was fine. I put some water in the stock overflow bottle for the coolant. i didnt check the radiator being the engine was hot. But it smells like burning oil not sweet smelling like coolant. i just got home and it doesn't smoke as much but i still see a few puffs from the tail pipe. im really confused on what this could be because the car has 64k on it.

[Xaisk]

I dont remember but I tihnk the black box that was down there was part of the PCV. If a little oil got in the PCV system it might get recycled and burnt in the engine. Give it a few days to see if it stops.

[gp02a0083]

well yesterday morning and after work she only smoked a little bit on start-up and after rev'ing it a few times. I checked the PCV valve out of curiosity, seems like it was lazy and didn't work well, doesn't really rattle around. I replaced the valve with a new one.

would a stuck or lazy PCV valve on an FI engine make it smoke a little bit?
My thought is that the crankcase pressure may have built up and somehow got oil into the intake. it seems fine now after replacing the valve and im only seeing water condensation. i just don't get how this car has 63k on it and it would be the valve stem seals, oil is still at the same level and its not chewing up coolant. I relay cant figure out a reason why it let out a cloud of white smoke the other night.

[Xaisk]

well yesterday morning and after work she only smoked a little bit on start-up and after rev'ing it a few times. I checked the PCV valve out of curiosity, seems like it was lazy and didn't work well, doesn't really rattle around. I replaced the valve with a new one.

would a stuck or lazy PCV valve on an FI engine make it smoke a little bit?
My thought is that the crankcase pressure may have built up and somehow got oil into the intake. it seems fine now after replacing the valve and im only seeing water condensation. i just don't get how this car has 63k on it and it would be the valve stem seals, oil is still at the same level and its not chewing up coolant. I relay cant figure out a reason why it let out a cloud of white smoke the other night.

I agree it doesn't sound like it would be seals or anything. I won't say its no impossible, but unlikely. You said it stopped after you replaced the valve right? It sounds like exactly whaat I said in my last post. You should be fine.

[gp02a0083]

I agree it doesn't sound like it would be seals or anything. I won't say its no impossible, but unlikely. You said it stopped after you replaced the valve right? It sounds like exactly whaat I said in my last post. You should be fine.

yah i agree, tonight im working on replacing the drivers upper and lower ball joint, have to get a replacement for the lower that i installed 2 weeks ago due to creaking / dry socket. The old PCV valve when i took it out wasn't completely goobered up, but did not allow the valve to open freely all the time. The new valve you can shake it and hear it rattle , the old one didn't. I noticed the old valve kinda leaked a little bit here and there too. So im hoping that this was causing the car to smoke on start-up and after i rev the engine. It just confuses me how the hell it got into the exhaust, ill have to pull the spark plugs tonight and see what they look like. Ill have to see how things are after i work on the suspension, also i've been meaning to do a good tune up being it probably didn't have its service done since 30 or 40k miles.

[1813mdw]

well yesterday morning and after work she only smoked a little bit on start-up and after rev'ing it a few times. I checked the PCV valve out of curiosity, seems like it was lazy and didn't work well, doesn't really rattle around. I replaced the valve with a new one.

would a stuck or lazy PCV valve on an FI engine make it smoke a little bit?
My thought is that the crankcase pressure may have built up and somehow got oil into the intake. it seems fine now after replacing the valve and im only seeing water condensation. i just don't get how this car has 63k on it and it would be the valve stem seals, oil is still at the same level and its not chewing up coolant. I relay cant figure out a reason why it let out a cloud of white smoke the other night.

i'm not saying you have bad valve seals but a 20-some year old car w/ 63k usually means the car has sat for long periods of time. lots of time for stuff to get locked together

[gp02a0083]

i'm not saying you have bad valve seals but a 20-some year old car w/ 63k usually means the car has sat for long periods of time. lots of time for stuff to get locked together

oh i agree with you. when i get home later ill start her up and see whats going on after i fix the suspension. From what i saw on the carfax report and the owners story is that this thing was used mainly for going to church on sundays and the local pharmacy. Im not ruleing out that it could be a bad valve seal, i have this issue with my 307ci in my Oldsmobile and my honda is showing minimal signs of this.

[gp02a0083]

well it seemed to run fine last night, i started her up this morning and had some blue smoke, jsut enough to notice it in my yard with the wind blowing a little bit. I drove it to my fathers shop , noticed it smoked a bit on the way there too. I get to his shop turn around the building and it was smoking pretty good. I have my father look at it and not a spot of smoke came out of it. Im kinda convinced that it may be something relating to the oil pan, being that i replaced the pcv valve and i cannot find any leaks. Im going to pull the spark plugs today on my lunch break and see if i can rule out valve stem seals. Im thinking that its still building too much pressure in the crankcase and its getting into the intake. only this morning did i notice a bit of a stumble/ hesitation around 2k rpms. Im gonna leave the dipstick a little undone and see if it still smokes too.

[rocketman]

A blocked or malfunctioning PCV will do that. Cheap and easy fix, too. Hope it works out for you. Rocketman

[gp02a0083]

already changed that out with a new pcv valve. I couldnt get the plugs off the car , i don't have the right socket with me. The oil level was topped off the other day, now its a quart low. Im thinking it might be the stem seals. I smokes a bit on a cold start. ill check it later when i get to my parents house. Im getting really frustrated with figuring this out.

[Xaisk]

hm its possible for it to be a worn seal actually. I dont know why but when I posted previously I was thinking the engine had been rebuilt so that hadn't occured to me. :banghead:

[1813mdw]

well it seemed to run fine last night, i started her up this morning and had some blue smoke, jsut enough to notice it in my yard with the wind blowing a little bit. I drove it to my fathers shop , noticed it smoked a bit on the way there too. I get to his shop turn around the building and it was smoking pretty good. I have my father look at it and not a spot of smoke came out of it. Im kinda convinced that it may be something relating to the oil pan, being that i replaced the pcv valve and i cannot find any leaks. Im going to pull the spark plugs today on my lunch break and see if i can rule out valve stem seals. Im thinking that its still building too much pressure in the crankcase and its getting into the intake. only this morning did i notice a bit of a stumble/ hesitation around 2k rpms. Im gonna leave the dipstick a little undone and see if it still smokes too.

mine smokes a little sometimes and alot others; i'm pretty sure my rings are toast as the motor has 300k. bout time for a compression test

[gp02a0083]

nah the engine hasent been rebuilt at all and has been serviced by honda for the last 20 years until i bought it. Anyway my father and i thought it may have been an issue with the pvc pipe on the back of the oil pan. We looked at the old stock one and there is a flap that blocks the pipe from oil splash. We thought this wasn't right on the new dorman pan. he checked that this morning (i couldn't being i had a few conference calls to make today) the pipe isnt blocked like we thought and allows pressure to go by easily. He also tried leaving the dipstick out to maybe bleed off pressure , but the car still smokes.

he pulled the plugs this morning and all 4 of them were soaked. I was going to do this yesterday to see if i could rule out and isolate the issue down to a cylinder if it was the stem seals. He's confused too because the car runs pretty good even with this issue, but he agrees that a qt of oil in a week is too much.

So now im really stumped. when i get home later im gonna take the top of the intake manifold off and look around there. i can only guess that somehow its still building too much pressure and back feeding the oil into the top of the intake. This would explain why all 4 plugs were a mess. I also looked in the airbox and its dry. Im wondering what the pvc "catch box" actually connects to besides the pvc and the oil pan, i know it connects to the back of the block with an o ring , but where does that actually dump into?


oh edited for an added thought. if the pvc system is clogged, would it be possible for the oil to get into the intake manifold? I dont think its the valve , i just replaced it the other day. Also to check if the upper end of the pvc system is working , i remove the vac line going to the top of the intake manifold , start the car and i should hear the valve click?

[gp02a0083]

ok so i checked the new pcv valve , its pulling a good amount of vac. my father and i took the pcv valve out of the spot that it sits on the intake manifold, we started the car up and let it run for a little bit. Where the pcv valve goes a little bit of vapor was visible.

regardless it smokes with the pcv installed or out of the car.

[1813mdw]

try pulling the oil cap off and starting the car. see if the oil starts to pool up real bad inside the valve cover. i've heard of the oil passages in the head getting clogged. a qrt of oil in a week is alot. my car burns oil and leaks from pretty much every seal and i only go through about a 1/2 qrt a week

[gp02a0083]

check thed passages, there fine m oil returns from the head to the pan/crankcase no problem. We did a compression testes last night, i was very impressed, after testing each cylinder twice reading the pressure after 10 cycles the compression was 180 for all cylinders.

My father brought home his de-carbonizing kit from work , maybe thinking the bad pcv valve caused oil to back feed into the intake and sit in the runners and anywhere else it could, i know this is a problem with Toyota's dunno about honda's.

we ran the crud outta it, i put fresh 10w40 in it, ran the de-carbonizer a few times through it. She still smokes a bit , its odd how its not JUST a little bit of blue smoke but White as well. We checked the coolant level in the rad afterward and not a drop appears to be missing. After running the car for a while we pulled the plugs, 3 of the 4 plugs have oil on them still, the 4th looked close, didn't have oil on it , but it did have alot of carbon

this morning im gonna try a cylinder compression tests with my air compressor ( similar way to test for a bad head-gasket). i just gotta back off the rocker arm adjustments so that the valves for the cylinder I'm working on is closed for sure, it seems that there is very little duration between the valves opening and closing.

at this point im really leaning towards the valve stem seals being shot. The pcv system hoses appear fine and dry. i got great compression, the car runs great except for the fact that it smokes, no hassle in starting the car either. if it isnt the valve seals , then idk it doesn't look like the car has a bright future....

[Dr_Snooz]

We looked at the old stock one and there is a flap that blocks the pipe from oil splash. We thought this wasn't right on the new dorman pan.

Sounds like a bad pan to me. I would get the right pan.


then idk it doesn't look like the car has a bright future....

63k original, Honda maintained miles??? I'll buy it. Name your price.

[gp02a0083]

Sounds like a bad pan to me. I would get the right pan.



63k original, Honda maintained miles??? I'll buy it. Name your price.

we had the pipe going to the pcv black box off, and it still seems to smoke. We tried again doing a headgasket / crude leakdown test. seems that were having a problem getting the valves to fully close like i mentioned in my last post. We did get the one cylinder closed off, applied pressure from our air compressor to it. I call this cyl #1 (farthest driver side). When we did this we can hear air through the oil return passages. This does the same thing for cyl #4 (farthest passenger side). We tried the same test with the center two cylinders and this causes the engine to roll over a bit and opens the valves. We kept looking at this to make sure the chamber was closed off by wiggling the rocker arms on #1 and #4. I think were not closing it off correctly. My question is , when the valves are closed and air is coming up through the oil returns in the head, would this be a sign of bad rings? i don't really think it is because the compression numbers were good. This seems to have happened a few days (3-4 days) after i installed the new dorman pan. it just seems like its too much of a coincidence. again the compression numbers were spot on 180 for each cyl, the engine doesnt stumble/ misfire , idles smooth as glass does not chew up any coolant. ALL 4 plugs were covered with oil, we replaced then with a set i had hanging around and after testing it and running the cleaner through it , ALL 4 plugs were covered with oil again (after it ran for about an hour). It does have a white/blue smoke coming only from the exhaust, nothing out the dip stick tube and nothing out the pcv. Its got visible smoke when idling and seems to get worse when its hot, it seems to be getting worse over time.


Snooz how much you willing to spend? :deal:
the dorman pan is practicably identical to the OEM Honda one with the exception of the dain bolt being 14mm instead of 17mm and the angle of the pcv tube is more of a 45 degree than a J bend. We thought it might be that flap in the pan, we haven't taken it off the car yet. Like i said we took the pipe off and checked for air flow, to check to see if its not blocked, this was fine. we left it off when running the car and also had the dipstick removed so it vents the crankcase, no smoke or vapor comes out of these lines. I was possibly thinking blow by the rings , but i don't see anything out of the dipstick tube or the pcv tube....

[lostforawhile]

if that shield isn't over the pickup in the pan, it could be pulling oil into the intake, that has to be there, I have a good pan, I don't know how much shipping would be though, I just did some pan modifications, so i used an extra pan

[gp02a0083]

if that shield isn't over the pickup in the pan, it could be pulling oil into the intake, that has to be there, I have a good pan, I don't know how much shipping would be though, I just did some pan modifications, so i used an extra pan



i recall that the shield is there, we were questioning it when installing it. We haven't taken off the pan to look at this, we've been thinking that it might have too close of a gap or something, but we checked the flow by breathing in/out of that pipe. Again when we tested/ ran the car last night we had this pipe removed to check for excessive crankcase pressure. needless to say we did not see any oil spewing out of that tube.

i may be contacting you, lost for that pan relatively soon, we are having one of my dads fellow mechanic friends come over and look at this too and i also have some friends from highs school looking into seeing if anyone in the local area is really good with old school honda engines.

[lostforawhile]

i recall that the shield is there, we were questioning it when installing it. We haven't taken off the pan to look at this, we've been thinking that it might have too close of a gap or something, but we checked the flow by breathing in/out of that pipe. Again when we tested/ ran the car last night we had this pipe removed to check for excessive crankcase pressure. needless to say we did not see any oil spewing out of that tube.

i may be contacting you, lost for that pan relatively soon, we are having one of my dads fellow mechanic friends come over and look at this too and i also have some friends from highs school looking into seeing if anyone in the local area is really good with old school honda engines.

well it's here i'll have to clean it up, but you can have it for shipping or anything you feel it's worth

[gp02a0083]

well it's here i'll have to clean it up, but you can have it for shipping or anything you feel it's worth

i appreciate it lost, my fathers friend stopped by to check this out. he doesn't think its the rings at all, but it may be stem seals being the last owner put 5k in 5 years on it and the seals may be rotted.

we ran it for a good hour, doesn't seem to be smoking or acting up at all. we think the exhaust / cat converter is gummed up with carbon deposits after we ran the cleaner through it.

ill post again tonight with updates.

[gp02a0083]

didn't take the car home, smoked on start up and a bit after. Coolant levels are ok and the oil level is a quart low again. I shut it off and start it back up 10 -20 min later and it doesn't smoke.

my fathers friend said that its odd when pressurizing the cylinder, with all the valves closed that there is air coming out of the oil return passages in the front corners of the head. This does the same thing with both outer cylinders. When we pressurize the middle pistons after making sure we had the valves closed, it caused the engine to roll. Now we tried this with my fathers friend there, he suggested to lift the rocker rod retainers so that there is no pressure on the spring at all. we tried again pressurizing the outer cylinders and again air flows through the oil returns ( note also the whole time we are checking this we are also checking for air flow from the dipstick tube, we noticed no flow at all). We also tried to check for air flow out the intake and exhaust

i bolted everything back up, ran the car and it starts and runs just fine. Still looks like its burning oil and has blue smoke. I pulled the plugs and sure enough there oil soaked again. I re-installed the plugs and started the car, didn't appear to have much smoke.

im at my end with this, i can't tell WTF it is , if its the valve stems or its the oil rings on the piston.

[1813mdw]

whatever you do don't sell it! eventually you'll figure it out; i've lost a couple great cars this way and still regret it. if you would consider selling it when it was running fine then go for it. but if not don't take the easy way out. just my opinion.

[Dr_Snooz]

Swap the pan for the right one and see if it still does it. I mean, the car runs fine until you swap the pan for one that you think is suspicious. Car immediately has trouble. I'm no genius, but that right there points to the pan you put in. Maybe you spontaneously had a major engine failure immediately following the pan replacement, but that doesn't make much sense does it? Sounds like the pan to me.

The alternative is to sell the car to me. Name your price. I'm boarding a plane on the 17th. I'll be flying out to Maryland to help a buddy put an addition on his house, so I'll be there with cash in hand if you want to sell... :deal:

[carotman]

Hmm this is an odd one.

You can install catch cans on the valve cover breather hose and pcv system. This way, you'll see if there's any oil comming from these places. (like air compressor catch cans)

If you can hear air from the oil passages, this isn't good. I wonder if it could be a bad head gasket or cracked head (I don't want to jinx it).

If you remove the intake manifold, you'll see right away if the valve seals are good or not.

[gp02a0083]

thanks for the input guys. I was maybe thinking the same as you are carotman. That somehow its a head gasket, however there are no signs of oil in the coolant or coolant in the oil systems. I believe that the pcv system is working alright. i pulled the valve cover breather tube and the pcv tube that goes to the intake, they are bone dry. So that makes me think its not the pcv. However im noticing that the valve cover tube has some very light pressure out of it, i thought this was suppose to have a slight vac on it. i checked the intake manifold for vac, put the gauge on the intake were the pvc goes and it was reading 20 mm hg (may have my units wrong )

the engine oil system is spotless , you can eat off of it, so i don't think anything is gummed up. It is strange to hear air out of the oil return passages on the both front and the rear driver side passage in the head without having anything coming out of the dipstick tube when the cylinder is closed off. Also its strange that you can hear it out of the cylinder #1 when your checking #4 and vice versa.

im leaning on that it may be the valve seals, maybe the old pcv valve caused the initial problem and caused blow by in the seals and now there shot and there's too much residue junk in the cylinder and the exhaust to tell if it really is the seals or not. i think with the age of the car , even tho it was well maintained, the seals are worn. It was only driven 5k miles in 5 years before i bought it in September. I just haven't had any issues until after the lower ball joint gave out and i replaced all the parts. I may take the pan back off to check the splash guard clearance for the pcv tube, but like i said at this point i am fed up and i cant work on the car anymore without getting pissed off. I really don't like the fact that the car decided to switch over being a 2 stroke

[carotman]

I doubt it but it could be oil rings that are gummed a bit.

If you plan to change the oil and remove the pan, you could try to put a tablespoon or 2 of auto tranny fluid in each cylinder and let it sit overnight. This oil is very detergent and will clean old oil residues.

Changing the valve seals can be done without removing the head if you plan to go that route.
I'm not sure but maybe you can see the intake valves if you remove the injectors. If you don't see any oil leak from there... well...

[gp02a0083]

I doubt it but it could be oil rings that are gummed a bit.

If you plan to change the oil and remove the pan, you could try to put a tablespoon or 2 of auto tranny fluid in each cylinder and let it sit overnight. This oil is very detergent and will clean old oil residues.

Changing the valve seals can be done without removing the head if you plan to go that route.
I'm not sure but maybe you can see the intake valves if you remove the injectors. If you don't see any oil leak from there... well...

i agree , the engine appears too clean to be gummed up. We tried putting last night some motor honey (STP) in it for the heck of it, seeing if it would reduce the amount of smoke , didn't do anything. We also switched the oil form 10w30 to 10w40. I was thinking about some marvel mystery oil, i knew about the trans fluid trick, its an old school trick done typically done with carb'd engines and i've used it a few times on friends rotary's to clean up apex seals. it may be possible but a tough angle to see down the runners through the injection ports, at least with this it would support my thought it was pcv system that started all of this and i would see residual oil in the runners. Im gonna try bringing it to my girlfriends fathers mechanic to have another person look it over.

we were going to replace the seals yesterday, but the grabber tool we have to keep the valve from dropping down the cylinder was too big. Also it wouldn't be able to grab because of a secondary spring inside the main spring. if i go that route ill use some twine or 20lbs test fishing line to hold it. At this point im wayy too busy to keep messing with this, i just want to have someone else look at it. If they say valve seals , fine ill do it, but if its the oil rings....eh not gonna mess with it ill let someone else deal with it

[markmdz89hatch]

ok, sorry for being so late on this one...

Given everything that you've already tested and done, and the fact that the problems seemed to start as soon as the pan was replaced, I'm going to take a different direction....

You say that you had to cut the pan->pcv catch can hose about an inch short. Given this, although you were able to get the hose back on the nipple on the pan, I'm thinking it could be kinked. If the can is clean enough, and flows fine, as well as the new pcv valve and hose from the valve to the can, it may appear that there's no 'blockage', but a kinked or crimped hose can cause that blockage as well.

If the PCV system is blocked substantially, it'll cause higher crankcase pressure and can cause (depending on the level of blockage) significant blow-by and subsequently headgasket damage as well.

As a quick test, I'd put a breather filter at the end of a length of hose and suspend it on the firewall or somewhere a little higher (to keep from any oil just blowing out of the hose), or use a length of hose and a cheap catch can with a breather on it. ..then put a breather filter on the v/c as well. That'll temporarily remove the PCV and catch can as well as all of it's hoses from the equation. ...see where you are then.

Trouble is, even if the hose was kinked and caused blow-by, simply removing the blockage won't necessarily fix it as it could very well have cause other damage (oil between the rings, valve seals to leak, or even hg to begin to fail.)

only the slightest bit of antifreeze will burn white, where you may not even notice any loss of fluid for a long while. Who knows there honestly. I'm putting my money on just excessive blow-by causing the majority of the smoke.

...as for the thought of a 63k motor not having any trouble... ...if it were only about 5-10 years old, I'd say that's really low mileage and a great thing. The bittersweet part about a 22 year old car with 64k is that the body and interior should be in very very good shape and the car should be very clean overall, but the motor and anything else rubber or a joint would most likely need some attention.

...these parts are all meant to move. If the car was used very rarely and/or for short drives and sat for a significant time, there's likely lots of gunk built up and the seals have more dryrot than a motor with let's say 120k because the oil and grease would have settled or begun to deteriorate.

The fact that the balljoints are dry rotting or just failing is indicative of other rubber parts or parts requiring lubrication to begin to fail as well.

...all told, I'd still prefer to be in your boat than that of most of us with a good running motor but a tired body and interior.

If you need any help, or even some spare parts don't hesitate to ask.

[markmdz89hatch]

PS> Be careful with the heavy oil or other stopleak stuff. If you're dealing with high crankcase pressure, you're only going to make the situation worse with thicker stuff.

[gp02a0083]

so i went ahead and got the valve stem seals replaced. Still seems to smoke a bit after i rev it and after hot and cold start ups. The amount of smoke tho had decreased , but it now smells like burnt rubber rather than oil. I really want to think that its just all the residual oil from before burning off in the exhaust.

:sad2:

[gp02a0083]

bump for additional information.

so i restarted the car, it smokes on start up.....frigging great....
anyway i took a look at the pvc valve, seems like the bottom portion is wet with oil , valve still works and rattles. I put it back together, i took the oil cap off the top of the valve cover with it running, it seems there is a lot of pressure in the valve cover. I thought there should be a slight Vac on the line going to the air intake tube for fresh air. at this point im suspecting something has to be blocked. ill try removing the oil pan and start from there.

[markmdz89hatch]

i'd seriously try the pcv bypass test. with the pcv hose being cut a tiny bit shorter than it's supposed to be due to trouble you had removing the hose when you replaced the pan, I'm still banking on the hose causing a restriction and causing pressure build-up in the crank case, causing blow-by. Rings might be shot if this was a pcv blockage problem and you've been driving on it because they can only take so much blow-by caused by pressure before they start to get all yucked up on you.

pick up a dirt cheap glowshift sandwich adapter, and a cheap oil pressure gauge and see what you're oil pressure is looking like at the filter.

[gp02a0083]

i drove the car last night to my parents house, smoked a bit for the first 2 miles , then it didn't seem like it smoked at all until you revved it at a stop light or parked.

Mark , in regards to your post. I disassembled most of it last night so that my father could look at the oil pan today. Now with the valve stem seals replaced that is one factor that can be thrown out (unless they were scored severely, but i don't think that is the case.)

i argued with my father about using the 10w-40 in addition to the motor honey being that i don't think the engine is breathing properly and as mentioned before we are dealing with high crankcase pressures. He did this to rule out the rings or the stem seals, but i mainly think he said for the rings.

i think before the stem seals were on their way out due to age and whatever is causing the high crankcase pressure just helped them along. so now its narrowed down to the oil pan causing this issue, or the rings are shot. I even had a wild guess that it might be very tiny head gasket failure, but so far i have not noticed white smoke or loss of coolant.

the first step tho is to check the splash guard on the oil pan to see if it isn't welded shut or blocked, then next after that is checking the black vapor separator box for blockage.

also ive been meaning to install an oil pressure gauge and voltmeter of some type. I do not like the fact i can not monitor anything besides rpm's. I suppose they make a generic kit of some type? I have not really looked into this.

[Dr_Snooz]

I highly recommend getting a gauge pack. It sure would have saved my first engine if I had known it wasn't getting enough oil pressure. The center part of the seal on my oil pump gave up, so the pump was just moving oil from the high side to the low side. The idiot light never turned on and the thing burned up. What a sucko way to find out those gaskets will do that. What a sucko thing to happen to my 3g. The volt gauge will help keep you from getting stranded if the alternator gets tired. Totally worth every penny.

[lostforawhile]

your pan is on the way :D