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lostforawhile
03-23-2011, 03:45 PM
Ok Snooze got me started on this, I already had a small remote filter adapter around, it originally took a fram PH8A, but I found a much smaller better filter that fits the base. I didn't really have anywhere to mount it under the hood, so It's now in the area under the bumper, I wanted easy access, so first I made this

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1639-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1640-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1641-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1642-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1643-1.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1646.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1647.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1648.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1649.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1650.jpg


I'll be posting pictures of the bracketry I just finished, as well as pictures of it mounted in a just a few minutes

lostforawhile
03-23-2011, 03:48 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download414.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download416.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download419.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download417.jpg

Dr_Snooz
03-23-2011, 06:00 PM
That's some nice work there Lost. As always.

stat1K
03-24-2011, 05:20 AM
yet another step in the ever expanding process of overcomplicating and adding weight to lost's hatch, for this sir we salute you.

DBMaster
03-24-2011, 06:50 AM
^^LOL! You have to admit, though, he's quite the fabricator. After careful consideration I have chosen to leave my entire PS system as it is - OEM.

lostforawhile
03-24-2011, 02:41 PM
yet another step in the ever expanding process of overcomplicating and adding weight to lost's hatch, for this sir we salute you.

well the resevoir no longer has a filter, and there's supposed to be one, so I added it back, after seeing what snoozes filter caught, and what other people filters have caught, who have added filters, I'm glad it's there, I have a brand new steering rack and rebuilt PS pump, so i'm going to protect them. as far as weight, everyone forgets how much weight I removed before adding anything, I took probably close to 300 pounds out of this car, afte weighing the old exhaust and manifold, and weighing the new stuff, i just cut another 35 pounds. Regular steel exauste tubing and an iron manifold weight a bunch. The stainless tubing i used is a special lightweight aircraft alloy

lostforawhile
03-24-2011, 03:05 PM
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1660.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1663.jpg
this is the filter I found, The adapter takes a PH8a which is huge, I found this one which matches the adapter and is much smaller. if you ever need a small fluid filter, the remote adapters which take the ph8a are the most common, then this filter or equivilent will fit the adapter

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd158/lostforawhile/IMG_1665.jpg

MessyHonda
03-24-2011, 11:45 PM
looks good but yeah. that hatch is one of a kind

stat1K
03-25-2011, 08:57 AM
well the resevoir no longer has a filter, and there's supposed to be one, so I added it back, after seeing what snoozes filter caught, and what other people filters have caught, who have added filters, I'm glad it's there, I have a brand new steering rack and rebuilt PS pump, so i'm going to protect them. as far as weight, everyone forgets how much weight I removed before adding anything, I took probably close to 300 pounds out of this car, afte weighing the old exhaust and manifold, and weighing the new stuff, i just cut another 35 pounds. Regular steel exauste tubing and an iron manifold weight a bunch. The stainless tubing i used is a special lightweight aircraft alloy

i'd like to see where this 300lbs came from.

and really man it's your car but i would have thought just going the route of the manual rack would have probably saved you weight as well as given you less resistance on the motor.

lostforawhile
03-25-2011, 02:29 PM
i'd like to see where this 300lbs came from.

and really man it's your car but i would have thought just going the route of the manual rack would have probably saved you weight as well as given you less resistance on the motor.

i've taken it out piece by piece, every weigh the entire AC system? it all adds up, just putting in the odyssey battery cut 25 pounds over the old standard battery, even the upholstery and backing materials I put in are lightweight compared to stock, ounces add up to pounds pretty quick, remember I had this car to a shell at one point, some of the ways I saved weight will stay a secret, I don't tell all my secrets, someday I may build a race one, and thats one of my advantages,as far as what I've added, most everything is made of light aircraft alloy,

forrest89sei
03-25-2011, 05:53 PM
what do the 9000 flat head screws do?

lostforawhile
03-25-2011, 05:56 PM
what do the 9000 flat head screws do?

well I was just playing around with those, :D i could have probably used four, all this work and no one will ever see it but me

lostforawhile
03-25-2011, 05:59 PM
i'd like to see where this 300lbs came from.

and really man it's your car but i would have thought just going the route of the manual rack would have probably saved you weight as well as given you less resistance on the motor.

you know above a certain speed, all of the fluid bypasses the rack, so the pump stops being anything but a light load , I'm trying to remember but I believe it goes through the cooler and back to the reservoir when it's bypassing

87roach
03-26-2011, 08:57 AM
You talk about taking that much weight out when you just put it back in with other random things, I don't see the logic.

stat1K
03-26-2011, 09:55 AM
i've taken it out piece by piece, every weigh the entire AC system? it all adds up, just putting in the odyssey battery cut 25 pounds over the old standard battery, even the upholstery and backing materials I put in are lightweight compared to stock, ounces add up to pounds pretty quick, remember I had this car to a shell at one point, some of the ways I saved weight will stay a secret, I don't tell all my secrets, someday I may build a race one, and thats one of my advantages,as far as what I've added, most everything is made of light aircraft alloy,

i weighed all the pieces of the ac system on my civic which has a slightly smaller compressor and it only wieghed about 50 lbs for all of it. so you're saying you did that 6 times essentially. i'll say it's added up but i would doubt 300. i got the crx down to 1950ish without me in it and that was only 150-180 lbs lighter than stock and it was gutted with no ac components, no interior, an odyssey battery and several stock parts removed.


you know above a certain speed, all of the fluid bypasses the rack, so the pump stops being anything but a light load , I'm trying to remember but I believe it goes through the cooler and back to the reservoir when it's bypassing

yes this is understood, does the weight somehow change at that higher speed? to me i prefer manual steering racks just like i prefer manual windows, manual transmissions and manual mirrors.

lostforawhile
03-26-2011, 10:36 AM
i weighed all the pieces of the ac system on my civic which has a slightly smaller compressor and it only wieghed about 50 lbs for all of it. so you're saying you did that 6 times essentially. i'll say it's added up but i would doubt 300. i got the crx down to 1950ish without me in it and that was only 150-180 lbs lighter than stock and it was gutted with no ac components, no interior, an odyssey battery and several stock parts removed.



yes this is understood, does the weight somehow change at that higher speed? to me i prefer manual steering racks just like i prefer manual windows, manual transmissions and manual mirrors.I never said the AC system weighed 300 pounds, I said it was a lot of weight. it's gone now, I hate AC, you save weight piece by piece, and what i've added back in is lightweight, I don't feel like driving a car with no interior, and a single seat, it's an Accord not a civic,

cubert
03-26-2011, 11:10 AM
it's an Accord not a civic,


What the fuck are you talking about?

stat1K
03-26-2011, 11:37 AM
you said you took out a bunch of weight, i said i took out almost everything in my crx and it didn't equal 300 lbs... i also never said the ac system weighed 300 lbs, i said mine weighed 50 so i'd be pretty curious to see what else you removed to = 6x that weight.

lostforawhile
03-26-2011, 11:48 AM
why is it nessessary to start shit in my thread?

stat1K
03-26-2011, 12:24 PM
i made one comment and you felt it necessary to try to refute it. you always do this after the fact, you feed the troll then ask why i continue.

lostforawhile
03-29-2011, 04:05 PM
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/IMG_1702.jpg

lostforawhile
03-29-2011, 06:04 PM
filled and sanded http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/aug262009download454.jpg

DBMaster
03-30-2011, 07:52 AM
I have been thinking about this modification since you started the thread. Which P/S line will you splice the filter into? You obviously can't use the pressure side because that is too much pressure. If you use the return side what is the potential consequence of a clogged filter? Is there enough pressure on the return side to get through the filter when it's clean and enough pressure to open the filter's bypass valve if it gets dirty?

lostforawhile
03-30-2011, 02:27 PM
I have been thinking about this modification since you started the thread. Which P/S line will you splice the filter into? You obviously can't use the pressure side because that is too much pressure. If you use the return side what is the potential consequence of a clogged filter? Is there enough pressure on the return side to get through the filter when it's clean and enough pressure to open the filter's bypass valve if it gets dirty?

I'm trying to decide which ones to use, there are two returns, one from the cooler and one from the rack, either way it's a partial filtration, but thats better then nothing. I believe if the filter should clog the pressure would simply bypass through the other circuit, in the factory reservoir, both inlets go through the same filter I believe, Snooze is the outlet to the pump filtered or the inlets filtered?

1813mdw
03-30-2011, 06:22 PM
I have been thinking about this modification since you started the thread. Which P/S line will you splice the filter into? You obviously can't use the pressure side because that is too much pressure. If you use the return side what is the potential consequence of a clogged filter? Is there enough pressure on the return side to get through the filter when it's clean and enough pressure to open the filter's bypass valve if it gets dirty?

how much pressure is involved in the ps system? oil filters are designed to bypass internally if a blockage occurs; no longer filtering but allowing the flow to remain. i've pulled filters off cars at my work that when you empty them nothing liquid came out; but sludge and shavings instead. some people literally don't change their oil for years(not joking) at a time:eek:

lostforawhile
03-30-2011, 06:28 PM
Dr Snooze installed the big Nappa inline power steering filter, it's a cartridge filter inside, exactly like a regular oil filter, the only difference is it has a built in magnet, by adding an external filter magnet, it would be exactly the same. I'm thinking of installing it inline with the pump inlet, the pump is a gear rotor type pump, exactly like an oil pump, with the resevoir above the filter, once it's primed, the fluid would have to stay in the line, when the pump isn't running, the fluid can't flow backwards through the filter back up the line and into the resevoir, fluid is always flowing out of the resevoir towards the filter by gravity, I doubt it will clog, there isn't enough dirt in the system to cause a clog, the main thing to look for are metal particles. the system is pretty much sealed. The pump won't have any problems priming itself, it's just like the oil pump, it picks up fluid just like the oil pump pulls oil out of the pan. It's an interesting note, that if anyone ever runs a dry sump system, with a proper pressure relief, and bypass back to the pan, a power steering pump will make an excellent external oil pump.

Dr_Snooz
03-30-2011, 06:58 PM
Snooze is the outlet to the pump filtered or the inlets filtered?

The factory setup is to filter the oil coming out of the reservoir and supplying the pump. That supply line comes out of the bottom of the reservoir and loops over the top of the pump. It's the easiest spot to put the inline filter.

lostforawhile
03-30-2011, 07:15 PM
The factory setup is to filter the oil coming out of the reservoir and supplying the pump. That supply line comes out of the bottom of the reservoir and loops over the top of the pump. It's the easiest spot to put the inline filter.

thats what I was thinking, thanks!!

DBMaster
03-31-2011, 07:42 AM
Hmm. The interesting thing I noticed when backflushing my in-reservoir filter was that the OEM filter allows quite a good flow of fluid from gravity alone. I am not sure if the same can be said of any aftermarket filter. Maybe the Honda engineers who designed it intended only for larger things to be removed.

lostforawhile
03-31-2011, 02:42 PM
Hmm. The interesting thing I noticed when backflushing my in-reservoir filter was that the OEM filter allows quite a good flow of fluid from gravity alone. I am not sure if the same can be said of any aftermarket filter. Maybe the Honda engineers who designed it intended only for larger things to be removed.

when I get it plumbed, I'll run a line back into the reservoir, and test just the pump to reservoir circuit, I'll just turn the pump by hand, the power steering pump is just like an oil pump, I don't see it having an issue pulling fluid through the filter, snooze had his in the inlet and it works fine, it's just like a spin on oil filter inside of the case, I wish I had saved the cutaways of one of those, I had found a picture of one online

DBMaster
03-31-2011, 03:19 PM
Just playing devil's advocate. When I got the rebuilt transmission installed it came with one of those inline filters that looks exactly like the one Snooz used for the P/S. The company that did the transmission...

http://www.hecreman.com/

requires the use of the filter to maintain warranty coverage. My rebuilt transmission has a 3yr/36K mi warranty.

lostforawhile
03-31-2011, 03:28 PM
If the transmission hadn't gone on the civic, I was going to install a spin on on it, thats what destroys most of them, metal debris clogs the linear shift solenoid valve, line pressure drops and third and fourth gear clutch packs slip and burn up. a lot of import transmissions have no form of filter, so thats probably why one is required on your car to maintain warranty

Dr_Snooz
03-31-2011, 04:03 PM
Just playing devil's advocate. When I got the rebuilt transmission installed it came with one of those inline filters that looks exactly like the one Snooz used for the P/S. The company that did the transmission...

http://www.hecreman.com/

requires the use of the filter to maintain warranty coverage. My rebuilt transmission has a 3yr/36K mi warranty.

Right! I was going to put one of those on my auto trans, but I ended up just swapping to manual instead. I can't understand why Honda didn't use some kind of replaceable filter on the autos. Every other manufacturer does. Of course, the 3g autos still go 300k miles, so it's hard to argue much with that.

lostforawhile
03-31-2011, 04:08 PM
Right! I was going to put one of those on my auto trans, but I ended up just swapping to manual instead. I can't understand why Honda didn't use some kind of replaceable filter on the autos. Every other manufacturer does. Of course, the 3g autos still go 300k miles, so it's hard to argue much with that.

unfortunately those civic ones fail all the time, I ended up taking a huge loss on the car, never again will I own an automatic with no filter. I'm changing the Lincoln one this weekend as a matter of fact, I'm amazed Ford made a transmission with a relatively easy to change filter, you loosen the pan to drain the fluid, pull the pan off, pop off the little filter, put on a new one, and a new pan gasket, and you are good to go

DBMaster
04-02-2011, 09:10 AM
Talking about automatic transmissions...

I think we all know that there is a filter screen inside. Of course, it's not really replaceable like the one on Lost's Lincoln, or my daughter's Infiniti, or my girlfriend's Highlander, etc. When my transmission finally failed at 305,000 miles I wondered if a replaceable filter would have made it last any longer. If not, then the Honda engineers did a good thing by not adding a maintenance item that would just cause trouble and expense over the car's life. I am guessing that the only reason I have an inline magnetic filter now is that the rebuilder knows that a reman is likely to shed a little more metallic debris early in it's life. I think this because there is a requirement to replace the fluid every 30K miles using only Honda Z1, but there is no requirement to change the filter. Of course, I will, but it is still worth noting.

lostforawhile
04-02-2011, 11:29 AM
Talking about automatic transmissions...

I think we all know that there is a filter screen inside. Of course, it's not really replaceable like the one on Lost's Lincoln, or my daughter's Infiniti, or my girlfriend's Highlander, etc. When my transmission finally failed at 305,000 miles I wondered if a replaceable filter would have made it last any longer. If not, then the Honda engineers did a good thing by not adding a maintenance item that would just cause trouble and expense over the car's life. I am guessing that the only reason I have an inline magnetic filter now is that the rebuilder knows that a reman is likely to shed a little more metallic debris early in it's life. I think this because there is a requirement to replace the fluid every 30K miles using only Honda Z1, but there is no requirement to change the filter. Of course, I will, but it is still worth noting.

I think it's mainly cost is the reason they don't add one, on the Honda one for example, it's the debris as the clutch packs wear, thats what clogs the valves, if a good spin on filter was there, it would have captured all of that. it wouldn't have been hard to make a small filter base on the case itself. every transmission, whether new or old, creates some metal as it wears, what often happens is it forms a paste of metal and oil and clogs passages in the transmission. I'll have to do an experiment, take some super fine steel dust from work and mix it with oil. I have to clean that mess off the machines all the time, and it's a mess, I can see how it would cause problems in the transmission case

DBMaster
04-02-2011, 11:49 AM
I think it's mainly costThat's what is odd to me. Do we all agree that this vintage of Accord leaned toward being "over-built" to capture U.S. market share in the late 80's? That was pretty much the focus of the Japanese business model at the time. If nearly every other car on the road had a changeable transmission filter (Saturn even had a spin-on at the time) why would Honda delete it for cost? I am going with the theory that the engineers certainly knew of the wear material that would accumulate. So, perhaps the internal filter, or even the case design trapped the majority of it, thereby allowing the transmission to require no filter changes for its useful life. I guess the only way to know for sure is if we could find a few people who saw this early on and installed extra filters. I'm not trying to argue, just make a point that adding things on, however beneficial they may seem, may not produce the desired results and could, in fact, just end up creating more trouble and expense in the form of extra maintenance.

lostforawhile
04-02-2011, 12:01 PM
I know a lot of people who installed them, and extra coolers on cars and trucks where they were going to tow, and have transmissions running for hundreds of thousands of miles, the three g transmission wasn't bad, but this entire series of transmissions on the later model Honda's had a major issue. I went down and talked to Mickey Jackson at Jacksons transmissions, they've been in business for over 40 years, and the answer from him was both a cooler and a filter on an auto, change the filter every time you change oil, it's a little bit of extra fluid and a filter, but for what a rebuild costs, well worth the few bucks. also when you add a cooler, don't remove the radiator cooler, run the new cooler in series, the radiator cooler also warms the transmission fluid when it's cold, once it's at a certain temp it helps keep it from going above that temp

lostforawhile
04-26-2012, 03:36 PM
I know the fittings look a little strange, but after hooking them up and having them perfect, I discovered the inlet was hooked to the outlet and vice versa , this is the only way to make the lines clear the sheet metal. I need to put rubber over some of the lines to protect them from abrading other stuff. The reservoir is vented through the overflow can where the AC dryer used to be,it still needs a filter
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/morethreegeezpictures010.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/morethreegeezpictures009.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/morethreegeezpictures011.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b205/moultriemanicmechanic/morethreegeezpictures012.jpg

Tdurr
04-27-2012, 09:23 AM
That last pic.... So many an lines! Lol

DBMaster
04-27-2012, 10:29 AM
I like the black painted army canteen as a P/S reservoir.

lostforawhile
04-27-2012, 01:49 PM
That last pic.... So many an lines! Lol

I had removed about ten, I simplified the venting on the fuel bowls

jbabb
04-27-2012, 06:45 PM
best looking a20 engine compartment ever

lostforawhile
04-28-2012, 06:26 AM
it's going to look a lot better when I finish painting the under hood area and finish hooking up the wires, when I put the pedals in I'll probably remove the master cylinder and booster and paint the booster black again. I need to use another one of those AN to hard line adapter fittings on the fuel line at the firewall so the rubber hose will be gone

DBMaster
04-28-2012, 12:00 PM
Strangely enough, it does not even look like an automobile engine. With a combination of late 80's Honda "complicatedness" and good 'ole American ingenuity it looks like something far more industrial., Gauges, industrial fittings, looks like something that can be maintained instead of the sterile EC's of our today. It's very obvious that car builders do not want us messing with their stuff anymore. It's all the more reason to keep this vintage of car alive.

lostforawhile
04-28-2012, 12:05 PM
Strangely enough, it does not even look like an automobile engine. With a combination of late 80's Honda "complicatedness" and good 'ole American ingenuity it looks like something far more industrial., Gauges, industrial fittings, looks like something that can be maintained instead of the sterile EC's of our today. It's very obvious that car builders do not want us messing with their stuff anymore. It's all the more reason to keep this vintage of car alive.
yep everything is function, can you tell I work around aircraft every day? a lot of stuff looks heavy but is really lightweight, that oil cooler only weighs a couple of pounds as it's from an aircraft. One of the things I did was get rid of every rubber fuel line piece from the tank to the carbs, I won't have an issue with the crap formally known as gas,they sell now. The Facet fuel pump is rated for it. as well as all the parts Z therapy puts in their carb rebuilds

A20A1
04-28-2012, 12:37 PM
I actually found a 76 on island that sells "non-ethanol gas for watercraft", well that's what the label said anyways.

I tried using it but it pumped out .46 cents worth and stopped.

Dr_Snooz
04-28-2012, 08:27 PM
I predict that you're going to get all done and then decide to paint your engine bay. You'll have to pull it all out again... :rofl:

Then you'll put it all in again and decide you want to tuck... :rofl:

lostforawhile
04-28-2012, 08:33 PM
I predict that you're going to get all done and then decide to paint your engine bay. You'll have to pull it all out again... :rofl:

Then you'll put it all in again and decide you want to tuck... :rofl:

I'm painting it a section at a time, the part where the oil cooler is is already painted, as well as where the power steering reservoir is. I had tractor paint color matched to the original greek white, it goes on with a brush and self levels. It's a very tough paint, it just takes a few days to dry, the paint near the reservoir is just dirty right now

lostforawhile
04-28-2012, 11:47 PM
the final line for the power steering ALMOST fit, but a 1/4 inch too short, figures
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/s320x320/576296_10150866369202018_631682017_11813371_144220 5203_n.jpg
I had to tear it apart again,every time you take one apart the surface gets more and more damaged
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/s320x320/529998_10150866375282018_631682017_11813393_135840 6548_n.jpg

FINALLY the stupid thing fits

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s320x320/578871_10150866380967018_631682017_11813397_155680 9309_n.jpg