View Full Version : Budget Race lude!

05-21-2011, 01:51 PM
Right Guys and Girls, I know I'm lazy I haven't got time to search just want a easy to get to thread straight onto the topic.

Challenge 999

special racing event in UK run by Practical Performance Car magazine in September

999 is the budget in pounds to buy and build a car a total of 250 can be sold as spares to top up budget

Challenge is to drive 5 1/4mile sprints and 5 Auto X style circuits whoever averages the fastest times in all events wins.

I have a B20A chassis and engine in reasonable condition crusty around the edges but doesn't need much welding apart from over the sunroof and maybe a bit underneath.

what I need are cost effective solutions to max poweroutput and suspension upgrade, brakes not so important here but as they are B20A ones probably just new disks and pads will be sufficient unless you think otherwise.

Main aim cut out the weight as much as possible, strengthen what we can everywhere, convert to weber carbs, upgrade gearbox etc. full monty were looking at.

The car cost me nothing and i have tonnes of spares, what i need is cost effective solutions for hard core racing this has to be road legal so nothing radical that will effect testing the car.

Please put all suggestions in here and try to seperate each one into a sub topic e.g. suspension idea and seperate thread on engine etc. But any ideas as long as on a nice tight budget welcome.

Thanks for all your help to give you some idea what were up against theres a Toyota MR2 with a mildly tuned Camry V6 in the back, Saab 9000 with a turbo from a tractor pulling 600bhp!!! (won't handle though!) and a Golf Mk2 with 300bhp 1.8Turbo and decent suspension. Think last years winner was a MX5 with a V8 in it!!

Thanks for your help Rusty and Ryan really need your help with suspension and tracking setup on this one! :)

05-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Well Rich I would buy some ebay coilovers and some stock replacement struts for the rear and some used 88-91 civic front struts or 92-92 civic or 94-01 integra front struts if they are adjustable. I think that would be a good start, what motor mods were you thinking?

05-22-2011, 04:50 AM
I have Koni Reds front and rear, or KYB which i think are better slightly than the reds, Ideally would like to put something adustable on their if i can but limited to budget so nothing outrageous like Hot bits etc. Was thinking Koni yellows with some good coilover sleeves, i have some sleeves for 50mm shocks for rears already though but need to choose spring rates and lengths etc.
Is there any shocks that are going to give me good damping for race springs from any other models that can be made to fit?
What spring rates do you think i can run to make this a auto X monster? Have poly bushes already, planning on rose jointing and having adjustable tie rod bars on back.
Or you think i should just get some good std shocks like KYB and throw some Kings springs on or similar? I have couple of sets of lowering springs one from AVO, another JAmex and some other unkown make, AVO not too bad Jamex too soft on rear unkown make no idea never driven on them!
I don't think I'm going to win the drag event unless i manage to afford a cheap NOS setup so need to make sure i nail the handling tests!!

Engine mods been digging around 3rd gen lude forum and come up with some interesting ideas!!
Thinking H23 rods with UK 3rd gen lude pistons (10.5:1 CR!), then getting the head skimmed 1.5mm should see CR ratio jump to 12:1, then head work my way with the full monty going on will be using 34mm stainless inlet valves, 30mm exhaust valves from my SI blanks, bronze guides with the ends reshaped, thinking about web cams regrind with 242 degree duration or possibly crower cams as they have more lift, B20A5 exhaust header with downpipe hacked off and my own 2-1 downpipe section welded on with larger piping and 2.5" system mandrel bent. going to pull in a few favours for getting this done cheap but all possible maybe even rent a welding machine and DIY it. Will be using inlet manifold from A20 with my Weber DCOE's on them they should easily be able to cope with the projected 250bhp that I'm hoping to achieve!! (hoping so anyway or very near it) Torque should be around the 170-180lbft mark hopefully :0)

Brakes just going to chuck on some Ferrodo stock pads and EBC grooved disks all round which should do the trick

Weight this is the biggest area really going to be hacking and throwing out everything and anything i can to get the weight off aiming at 850kg's or less if i can.

Driving then the rest is upto me! lol! I'm pretty hot in this area so probably make up a lot of ground plus have years and years of tracking this car so pretty experienced with how they handle on the limit! :)

05-22-2011, 11:30 AM
Have you checked out the member messyhonda he has some h23 rods for sale

05-22-2011, 07:56 PM
Rich you are really thinking a little to hard on the suspension. For autox I've done fine on lower rates of springs. I know a lot of people who went with ebays and that $1000 limit comes fast. Buy used always when you do a build like this.

Also for the motor a turbo motor is gonna win the competition hands down... look at the grassroots motorsport challenge most of the top cars are turbo.

05-23-2011, 06:27 AM
I know turbo would be fun but adding the extra weight up front ahead of wheels, the extra torque steer and possibiliy that gearbox diff might explode, (might not have time or budget to sort it) I think going N/A is a good way I reckon i can easily hit 230-250bhp maybe squeeze tiny bit more if i go really mad on cams and I'd also be a lot more comfortable tuning webers than trying to convert everything to megasquirt and mapping. Don't get me wrong could do it but think it would be cheaper, and just as powerfull going down the route I am, plus it will sound the Bees Knees and hell who on here has weberized a B20A!! I want to see what it's like!! :O)

05-23-2011, 10:33 AM
Rich, Im in no doubt you couldn't do that. You might want to read this might give you a good ideas on some stuff


05-23-2011, 11:33 AM
Weight reduction - cut underhood webbing, remove interior panels, sound deadening, remove inner door bars, remove front and rear bumpers (not the covers), remove a/c and ps components, and remove all dust shields (exhaust and brake)

05-23-2011, 12:58 PM
OH yeah the car is going on a major diet and I'll be keeping as much rust as possible as we all know it's lighter than carbon fibre! lol! Not as strong mind! Doh!
Seriously though going to try and chop my way legally to as little as 850kg's or less if possible.

05-24-2011, 06:41 PM
are tyres part of the budget?

05-24-2011, 09:48 PM
rich have you heard of rs machine pistons they make a generic itr/ctr piston(81mm) for 160usd

05-25-2011, 01:43 AM
Unfortunately i think tyres are part of budget going to bend the rules slightly on them though as i have some contacts in tyre business so trying to blag a set of worn semi's from somewhere or I'll just have to get some Yoko Parada 2's which are pretty much like a semi slick anyway! and cheap! Just have to hope it does't rain or I'll be stuffed! lol! I do have a spare set of wheels and tyres if it does though which are more rain orientated.
As for the engine I need to check the piston pin size ideally i want to run a 82mm bore size but 81mm would cut down on machining costs I suppose but this isn't huge as i know the guy well and gives me good prices. As it was getting decked anyway having it bored wouldn't be much more.
Pain with the EDM B20A having smaller wrist pin size for the life of me can't remember what it is I know it's definately not 22mm either 21mm or 20mm.

05-25-2011, 02:02 AM
well they also do a 82mm piston for 160usd :)

05-25-2011, 03:45 AM
Nice got a link to who sells it? May have to consider would think the valve spacing and sizes would be similar to what I'm planning with B20A

05-25-2011, 03:50 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RS-MACHINE-ITR-Type-R-VTEC-PISTONS-HONDA-ACURA-82-0MM-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2310f50968QQitemZ15060 8349544QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

In this forum I have read that you can use b16 pistons on a b20a but you need to use h23 rods

just double check on this

05-25-2011, 06:07 AM
Rich! Make the ghetto extended top hats! Rusty has a point with the cheap ebays to get sleeves but honestly id buy some used 2.25 or 2.50 id springs close to these rates and lengths...
Front 6inch 500-600lbs
Rear 7 inch 600-700lbs.
Dump the fuck out of it. The high spring rates in the rear will help it rotate on tight autox courses and will help your drag launches too!

If you're on a tight budget don't worry about the rear toe bars. The ONLY reason you should think about doing it is to reduce the amount of toe out under hard cornering with super sticky tires.
Max your camber front and rear and run zero toe in the front AND rear, and if your worried about the hard loading toe out issue run a 1/16th inch toe in the rear. Oh yeah and max caster up front (realisticly shoot for 5 degree positive caster and go poly on those front radius rods!)

05-25-2011, 06:08 AM
Rich! Make the ghetto extended top hats! Rusty has a point with the cheap ebays to get sleeves but honestly id buy some used 2.25 or 2.50 id springs close to these rates and lengths...
Front 6inch 500-600lbs
Rear 7 inch 600-700lbs.
Dump the fuck out of it. The high spring rates in the rear will help it rotate on tight autox courses and will help your drag launches too!

If you're on a tight budget don't worry about the rear toe bars. The ONLY reason you should think about doing it is to reduce the amount of toe out under hard cornering with super sticky tires.
Max your camber front and rear and run zero toe in the front AND rear, and if your worried about the hard loading toe out issue run a 1/16th inch toe in the rear. Oh yeah and max caster up front (realisticly shoot for 5 degree positive caster and go poly on those front radius rods!)

05-25-2011, 09:01 AM
What shocks can take that spring rate? I would still like to do rear tie bars though just for fun and making something better for not a lot. We will see might just find a way of making them better using stock parts worse case i have new bushes i can use anyway.

05-25-2011, 04:03 PM
Ryan I think 6" springs are better for the rear, Rich most stock replacement shocks should be ok, if you wanted to get really crazy and cheap.... a set a koni yellows for a civic ef could work, you could weld a tab on the shock so it could fit on the rear perch....

05-26-2011, 04:52 AM
So you think a Civic rear shock could be made to fit then?

05-27-2011, 01:20 PM
Id measure the diameter of the shock as well as the length. If its too small weld on a peice of tubing that would be the proper id/od of the shock

05-31-2011, 08:40 AM
Got GAZ shocks going to look into what they can find that might work just need to go down there with a pair of front and rear shocks :O)

07-20-2011, 02:20 AM
Looks like we may well have a Coilover kit coming our way the guys at Gaz really helpfull and eager to make this happen!

I have drawn up the dampers, the front will be a base adjustable damper where you adjust the bump & rebound damping at the same time on a fixed ratio, the rears will be a top adjustable strut where it's only the rebound damping that is adjusted & i don't have any of the brake pipe brackets so i cannot put them on the new struts, i can put a different one on that you may be able to use. Can you let us have your full name,address & a contact no. so we can put an order on the system & get these under way.


07-20-2011, 06:20 AM
The man from Gaz says the spring rates should work well with a road legal semi slick type tyre so we'll see what happens i guess trying to see howmuch these will work out at if anyone else want's a kit made up. Probably ultimately have 2 sets made for 2 of my cars. And I'll use the best of the stock stuff i have and the best lowering springs i have on my red car to keep it as stock as possible.

08-10-2011, 03:00 AM
Here we go after not a very long time at all! This just turned up in the post!!


I can't wait to get these bad boys fitted on!! Just shame I'm too ill at the moment to get outside!!

08-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Damn Rich those look awesome! What are the spring rates? And what levels of damping do those have? Finally how much did they rob the bank?

08-17-2011, 08:45 AM
Damping is adjustable springs are 550 front and 600 rear came with some calibration graphs and bunch of figures probably as higb a spring rate as i can go, test fitted on some mounts and hubs/fork and all good, anyone know if there are poly bushes for the mounts available? Might be an idea to get rid of rubber ones. Might get some universal ally top hats to muck about with.
Cost me 350 pounds ex tax and postage just have to put some stickers on car and if i get any mag articles mention them in their si sweet deal! Im well happy! :o)

cygnus x-1
08-17-2011, 08:36 PM
anyone know if there are poly bushes for the mounts available? Might be an idea to get rid of rubber ones.[quote]

If you mean the LCA outers, I don't think so.

[quote=rjudgey;1075049] Cost me 350 pounds ex tax and postage just have to put some stickers on car and if i get any mag articles mention them in their si sweet deal! Im well happy! :o)

That's less than $600US. Any idea what they would charge for non-racers?


08-17-2011, 10:06 PM
Yeah maybe I will fetch them when I am there let me know on the price thanks :)

08-18-2011, 01:51 AM
Not the control arms I have all those bushes I'm talking abou the round bushes that sit in the suspension top hats on the top of the shocks and springs that mount to the body work. My old ones looking a but tired so thought if there are other ones available might be good to change.

08-18-2011, 11:14 AM
Will see if i can get some universal poly bushes tomorrow and then possibly fit those the oem ones move up and down a bit when i push on them might be able to tighten them up a bit more when mounted on the car though we'll see, it's mainly the rears that seem to be more of an issue! I have the top hats monted now so just need to wait for some decent weather and some spare time maybe tomorrow night I'll quickly jack the car up and drop the old shocks in one go and switch them over, the great thing about doing it this way having everything in one piece is if wet weather i can quickly change them all out for the stock / softer shocks and springs when dry go with coill overs shouldn't effect the tracking either as I'm just changing out the complete shock and springs the rest all stays bolted up and in place. Maybe try and find some spare forks I think the SI ones don't work from what I remember they are ever so slightly different but will check again to make sure. I know the LCA's are definately different and can't be swapped onto a carbed lude maybe I can use the forks on either arms.

08-22-2011, 07:59 AM
Well these are now fitted will post pics later when I'm back home! All I can say is this is now really low!! Also first time ever I've got oversteer round hard corners!! Think I may have to jack up the front a bit more as I'm hitting about every hump on the road with my exhaust and front middle tow eye, it's probably a bit too low compared to the back anyway, also you guys think it's worth fitting helper springs? I'm getting a bit of clonking on the back springs they are wound all the way down on the shock. I'm going to order the poly bushes also considering removing the locking section of the spring perch as I can lock it in place at the bottom of the shock and if i add a helper spring it will bump the ride height up a bit anyway.

So far I have the front shocks on 6 clicks and rear on 3 clicks I think the rears could go a little more stiffer maybe another 2 or 3. The fronts are perfect as they are I think maybe another 1 or 2 at most. I have room for elongating the slots in the upper arms to increase negative camber what do you think the most camber I can run would be benefitial? it's at -2 at present would having -2.5 be worth it? or even -3?

Rear camber doen't seem to have changed much about -1 degree going to try and see if there's any easy way to get a bit more from each side next important thing is to get some super sticky tyres the ones I have a squeeling like a mofo at the moment! Next up will be to get the car corner weighted and the tracking checked and done. But certiainly rides quite well very hard but not as bad as I was expecting!! Going to order those poly bushes for the top hats fronts seem solid no clanking noises or anything to worry about also not sure if i should add the SI ARB back onto the rear end it's not on at the moment as it didn't seem worth it before the DL one was so skinny and removed to save weight. Have a spare SI one I can use.

Oh I've changed the car I'm using now as I'm running out of time to get ready so will be using my silver blue lude as it's already missing interior and has a pokey engine just have to convince the judges that I've done all the mods for 1249 which it is doable if you keep to strict budget and get lucky scoring some parts a bit cheaper than normal.

08-22-2011, 12:36 PM
Get 17" Wheels :P

08-22-2011, 02:44 PM
In for pics :thumbup:

08-22-2011, 03:56 PM
Rich, do you have a link to where you got the coilovers??? I want more info on how, where to order these :)

08-22-2011, 07:03 PM
rich i am also in for pics!!!

08-23-2011, 03:36 AM
Here's my top hats, i did rub them down and put a nice coat of black hammerite on them! :o)

Ahh annoying can't insert pics must be a crummy old version of IE at work!

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299766_10150347762248103_625918102_9665163_3037652 _n.jpg

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296883_10150347762073103_625918102_9665162_5731038 _n.jpg

Will get some on car pics later when I have to take the wheels off to adjust the height again.

08-23-2011, 04:41 AM
Its great to see the car

08-23-2011, 06:17 AM
Yeah it's still here and running, just need to sort out new oil pan gasket, try and figure out why my brake balance valve is not balanced could be the MS but swapped for a new one made no difference. Only major thing is new OBX exhaust and 2.5" system like yours and job is done really maybe swap head over for A18 with big valves that I've finished to up CR ratio, then it's really case of building a block with 83mm high CR forged pistons, maybe titanium rods and wrist pins possibly have a custom cam made up or a Bisi one ground desperately need more lift and tad more duration something like 11.5-12mm lift on intake and 12-13mm lift exhaust with 295 degrees duration.

Can you get a shot of how close to the ground your S&S gets? give me some idea what it's like, I'm torn between just getting a downpipe made to fit my modded cast header or getting OBX done instead both work out same price but OBX will save weight but risk hitting something like hump in road you think it's a performance booster? Really wanted to get a custom header made but just can't spare the money at the moment.

08-23-2011, 04:12 PM
ok rich, i will try and take a picture tomorrow, however, i will warn you, my car isn't dumped yet (actually pretty low on intrax springs, but not mega koni dumped), but i haven't had many problems with it on regular driving roads. I hope i get to tinker with it but now school has started and i work 40hrs a week in the morn, and am taking Calculus II and Calc based physics I. So yea, my life is going to suck pretty bad. And i'm not excited about it!

cygnus x-1
08-23-2011, 09:10 PM
Can you get a shot of how close to the ground your S&S gets? give me some idea what it's like,

On mine the pipes are 1-1.5" below the center beam. They pretty much are the lowest thing on the car. :nervous:

am taking Calculus II and Calc based physics I.

Oh god. I spent a large part of my college career just trying to get through Calc II. I was a lazy SOB, which didn't help, but it's still a pain. The best advice for Calc II is to DO ALL THE ASSIGNED HOMEWORK PROBLEMS, and DON'T GET BEHIND. As long as you keep up with it you'll do fine. Phys I is no big deal. I've done it both ways, trig based and calc based, and I think I actually prefer trig based. Calc based is *neater* in a sense but every time I've had to do a physics problem in real life I've done it with trig. Phys II is where it gets hairy; with thermodynamics and electrical/magnetic fields.


08-24-2011, 01:01 AM
And what Language are you both talking! lol!

Well I'm sure all that hard work will pay off in the end friend of mine spent 5 years doing motorsport engineering degree and masters and had all that funny language your on about and walked straight into loads of job offers for Jaguar, Ford, Triumph and at the moment some company designing parts for F1 teams and some new armored car for goverment.

Wish i had done the same thing when I had the choice but not sure if i could handle all the maths could just about cope with angles and std maths! doh!

08-25-2011, 07:16 AM
And what Language are you both talking! lol!

Well I'm sure all that hard work will pay off in the end friend of mine spent 5 years doing motorsport engineering degree and masters and had all that funny language your on about and walked straight into loads of job offers for Jaguar, Ford, Triumph and at the moment some company designing parts for F1 teams and some new armored car for goverment.

Wish i had done the same thing when I had the choice but not sure if i could handle all the maths could just about cope with angles and std maths! doh!

:kekeke: stds :kekeke:

08-26-2011, 01:02 AM
HAve some pricing for the kit if anyone is interested cost is 526 pounds plus shipping on top to where ever you may be.

08-27-2011, 10:40 AM
HAve some pricing for the kit if anyone is interested cost is 526 pounds plus shipping on top to where ever you may be.

Where do I order them??? any ideas on shipping to Denver, Colorado???

08-28-2011, 05:08 AM
email Mark at GAZ shocks

08-28-2011, 12:03 PM
What year prelude are those designed for, and would they work on a 3G Honda Accord?

08-28-2011, 04:42 PM
83 to 87 but only the fronts will fit the rears on accord are completely different

09-01-2011, 02:35 PM
Well managed to do some more work on the lude tonight as the weather was nice for a change!!
Got the old header off but had to break some nuts and bolts to do it! only been a year and already rusted up to hell and back! :0(

Got the oil pan off cleaned off all the silicone very carefully from the block and pan didn't get time to refit just put pan on with two nuts to keep crap out of it from sitting outside on my driveway. Will put new gasket in and new sealant on the block and pan tomorrow night hopefully!

Now I checked the bottom of the engine out, very clean, no movement on the rod ends which is great! and no silicone or metal particles stuck in pan or oil pickup! So great again engine in great shape but then it should be as it's only done 1000k miles or so since rebuild!! lol!!

Going to keep the A20 Head as it's just running too well to warrant changing, may cause more issues and distract me from wasting time on more important things. going to start stripping out the doors and windows soon as well as bonnet pinning the bonnet and boot lid, removing passenger seat and belt, wing mirrors, aerial, custom MDF rear shelf, interior side panels, roof lining, headlight motors will leave them fixed up, and make some plastic windows up. Thats about it on weight saving that i can think off hopefully get it down to about 850kg's maybe a bit less.

Now while I had the exhaust header off I did some measurements! I can't believe this engine is running so well considering the sizes!!
My original header I had ported quite a bit, but this is on Red lude and I never really got a chance to do this replacement one properly, i thought it was bigger than it was still though. The primaries are only couple of mm bigger, and the secondaries are only just a bit over 1.5"!! but more worrying the downpipe that was made the internal ID of the downpipe is only just over 1.6" and where it bends down it's crush bent so it decreases in size to even less!!! This then leads to a ghetto collector which again look's very small and this then joins onto a ball joint type connector which only has a 1.75" internal ID!!! This then goes into 2.25" External Diameter piping but a couple of these are 90 degree crush bends so again will decrease internal ID to probably 2-1.75" causing more restriction!!

So i reckon if I kept the stock header but ported it out more like the original one, then had 2" downpipes welded to it into a decent collector onto a 2.5" system I'd gain a lot more power and top end revs. I reckon could easily be worth 10-15bhp and same in torque too. I'm going to try and persuade my exhaust man to do me a cheap header though and go for this properly but we'll see how it works out on a strict budget so if more than 600 all in for header and system will have to just do downpipe and system.

I still have tyres that I need to blag for cheap yet but working on that someone on the prelude forum in 3G section I know may have something failing that I've seen some Toyo R1R's for reasonable money so may get those.

09-02-2011, 03:24 PM
Damn rich, you need to get that exhaust sorted ASAP! sounds like its truely killing that poor thing. I'm pretty pumped to see the final product, and yes, LOTS AND LOTS of videos!

09-02-2011, 11:06 PM
Hi Ryan will try my best just money being the main problem at the moment, but good news is my mate John AKA (Civvy from the PP.com forum 1.8 carb to B20A swap from ages ago) asked him if he knew anyone that had some wheels and track tyres and he said he still had a set for his old Rex on some 15" kosei and are Toyo R888!! Only downside is the mad man whacked 205/40/15 on them! so bit on the small side I'm hoping it's a mistake and they are actually 45 profile if so will be nearly perfect! :o)
Anyway you think they'll be good? I think anything will be better than purely street tyres I have vredestein sportrac 3's on at moment in 195/50/15 and if it rains they'll be unbeatable but if try they take loads of warming up to get em to grip and are very soft sidewall only 1 ply so wobble like crazy! lol! I think the only problem will be on the drag strip will have to use an extra gear but that may work out better! We'll see I guess! Oh only downside is they are about 300 miles away so it will cost me a day out of a weekend to get em.

09-05-2011, 12:56 PM
I've prepped the cast manifold just in case I need to use it, have increased the primary ports by a couple of mm, and increased secondary ports to 1.75" ready for 2" downpipes and new system, hopefully won't need it and will have a whole custom race header made up but we'll have to see how much I can haggle off the total price! I think either way it's going to free up a lot more power and torque so can't wait for this to get made next week!!

I'm going to mod my camber plates on the front and get some weight out the car this week, what kind of camber you guys run at the track? Mines set to max stock camber but I can increase this quite easily now I have the coilovers in as they take up less room than the old ones!

Got the oil pan changed at least this weekend and the sealant should have set by now solid, going to change the filter and put in some fully synthetic oil as I have quite a lot of it spare hopefully make engine run a little better with less friction! Need to check rocker arm clearances though so will do that this week.

Next up order my hood pins for the bonnet and boot and cut off and remove the hinges and locks and as much metal and sound deadening as I can from them.

Really hoping I can get the weight down to 850kg's or less I think can maybe hit 800kg's if I can get the glass out and replaced as well as cutting a lot of metal out the cars doors, bonnet, boot and inside rear quarter panels, but we'll see I know it's hard to get the weight down on these cars but at least I had the lightest model to try with to begin with! lol!

Will fit the F2 emulsion tubes and hope it finds me a bit more top end zappiness and some bhp too! :0)

Also one other thing struck out on the track tyres my mates dad got shot of them! blooming parents PIA!! So now I'm back to my normal tyres unlikely to get some super stickies now I think, question is, is it worth getting tyre additive to soften the old tyres up a bit, they aren't new couple of years old now. And what pressures you guy's run at the track?

09-05-2011, 01:38 PM
awe its a shame you couldn't get the R888, they are suppose to be awesome! I'm not sure really if that stuff is good to use on street tires, i'd probably avoid it, but if you have to run street tires, your probably going to be in the 35-40psi range. Really so much will depend on heat and on side wall roll over, they are def going to be your weakness with the car for sure, even some Toyo RA-1s can be found for cheap used and they'd be much better than most any performance all season..

As far as camber goes, what kind of speeds will the low bank corners be? I'm sure jared will agree, but the most you can get out of these will barely be enough. I'd say 3.5+ neg for the front. on my old green car, i could get between 4.5-5 deg of neg camber out of the front, while only mustering up 3deg neg if i was lucky. really the rear camber amount is the biggest weak spot on these cars, and i'd say that probably has a lot to do with why dave gran is killing rear wheel bearing assemblies!
One more thing, i know your brakes are killer, but make sure you check all your brake lines and the fittings to the calipers! Jared has been having a bear of a time, I'm running the Goodrich SS lines on all my cars and haven't had ANY problems, but when i had others on there, i've had a leaky fitting almost ALL of the time! Good luck with all that weight reduction. you do remember how light my white car was with no trunk, fenders, hood, bumper supports, interior, doors, ect were... i think getting down to 800kgs is going to be tough. even for you mate!

09-05-2011, 02:43 PM
I knew you'd bring up your stripped out while car! lol! When I had my car weighed it was bang on 900kg's with a lot of fuel and that had everything inside that I have now, so I think with the support frame gone, engine mount, possible cast header, hinges and locks gone, plus the interior and electric motors to the windows and headlights, should see me down to at least 850kg's and the rest we'll have to see I don't think I'll have enough time to cut out the webbing on the bonnet and boot, hoping to just about have enough time to make up some plexi glass side windows but may have to just find a way to bolt them in shut and ditch all the rails and motors inside the doors. May even go back to a stock seat as it's really light but then again may struggle to keep in at cornering! lol!

09-05-2011, 08:12 PM
800kgs is roughly 1764lbs!!! Shit son! that would an awesome goal to shoot for...

Full tank of gas and of course the craziest in weight reduction!

I do think, now that i'm looking at the pics again, that if you do get rid of the glass, and go to lexan, and of course everything else, i do think you can get down to 850kgs/1874lbs! It'd be pretty tough, but with your lighter bumpers and no sunroof, that helps you out already loads. That weight was with a full tank of gas (15.9gallons) 2 gallons of antifreeze, and 5 qts or oil...

09-06-2011, 12:54 AM
I don't know how your car can weigh so much Ryan, seriously those bumpers must weigh a tonne! I know my bonnet is already feather lite but the hinges and the locks weight a bit, same with the boot my car when weighed in at 900kg's had a tonne of sound deadening added to boot and side of rear quarters and the rear deck plus all the stock stuff on the floor, I also had everything in the car apart from passenger seat and mirrors, but I still had the aerial, passenger seat belt in which will be going out the car as well as all the roof, and side panels inside the car which i know don't weigh much but also the electric windows etc. Oh I did remove the rear sway bar which I know isn't much but is a bit of weight. But as you say no sunroof also one less wiper on the front and no rear wiper. I don't know it's crazy how yours weighs so much with all that stuff out! I know must be that B16A you stuffed into it! lol! Not kidding though I bet it weighs more than more A20 also you got that giant cast iron hook on the back thats a few kg's!! lol!! ;0)

09-06-2011, 01:25 AM
Just had a thought you ever try taking those girders off and weighing them? I bet they are a good part of your weight you still running with them on? Also you have a rear screen brake light fitted! lol! Also the alloys you have are they pretty heavy the ones I have are pretty light nearly as light as the honda ones yours look pretty hefty to me although quite pretty! Also I don't have any of my side mouldings left either they went long ago and the damn things do actually weigh quite a bit like the old rubber spoilers on SI's they're hefty as well! Of course I do have my carbon fibre round gearknob that off course saves at least 100kg's! ;o)

09-06-2011, 01:32 AM
Wish I had some scales like that at home! I'd be well happy to get anything substantial off in weight 850kg's would be good still but going to try and see just how low I can go without cutting up the chassis in anyway as potentially I want to restore the old girl later on when she get's retired. Any ideas howmuch a B16A weighs with all the bits attached? Great thing about the A20 is although cast iron it is thin cast and strong so doesn't need much support bracing on the bottom end, and also the head being SOHC 12 valves weighs quite a bit less than a much heavier DOHC Vtec head I'd say nearly half the weight going by the weight of my B20A head which would still be lighter than B16A head with it's hollow cams and non vtec rockers etc.
If I get a chance to corner weight it will be interesting to compare between the two!

09-06-2011, 01:40 PM
Ryan and rusty whats the best alignment settings to use?
Was thinking
front camber -3.3.5 degrees
front toe out .15 degrees or 0?
front caster 0 degrees
Rear toe in .15-.25 degrees
Rear camber what ever i can get from lowering as it's fixed at present.

09-06-2011, 03:26 PM
Rich, you sure are silly, those wheels werent to heavy, 15lbs per wheel, only like 15x6. either way, I HAD NO DOORS!!! hahahaha

Ok back to serious...
Front camber should be -3.5 to -4
Front toe shouldn't be more than dead on Zero! with track speeds you get more toe out that on an autocross, and this is whati run when i autocross!
Max your caster out, i've had alighnment shops get everything from 4deg postive to 7. more is better if there is alot of turning, but if you still don't like that, then go with a positive 5.

rear toe, run at least 1/8 inch total toe IN! If you go less, your going to get that thing mighty sideways, if your worried about it, then go 1/4 total toe in. that's only 1/8 on each side.

and of course, as much negative you can get, i'd say it'll probably be in the -1.5to-2 range.
Good luck!

09-07-2011, 03:48 AM
Well maybe you filled the tyres up with water then! lol! ;0)
Would have been interesting if you had weighed those girders on the front and back of yours though I bet they are a good amount of weight!
Anyways thankfully mine is much lighter than yours and hopefully I can strip it out even more and get things lighter and nearer the 850-800 mark which would be really smoking. Getting Exhaust sorted out on Monday so really hoping big things from this still no joy on tyres yet still in two minds whether to blow 280 on the Toyo Track tyres or just stick with what I have and use some tyre additive Ryan and Rusty you had any good results from tyre softner/additive?

09-07-2011, 07:17 PM
i believe rusty has used the tire softener on a set of OLD victoracers, still a semi slick race tire... Honestly rich, Tires are going to be the hugest difference on this event/track event, as you probably already know, I'd spend the 280pounds on a set of good tires, or better yet, try and really search to find some good used ones! I just dont think the perfromance all seasons are going to be able to hold up, and no matter how much tire softner you use, the side walls are still going to be like jelly

09-08-2011, 03:15 AM
Yeah I know but with the way our weather is at the moment it's likely to be more wet than dry!!! So at least I know I have an alright pair of dry tyres and if it does go damp or wet I'll have a wicked set of wets!!
I have managed to locate some nice 2nd hand TSW rims imola's in 15" 4X100 pattern and not too far! I also have an eye on some Dunlop SP0J cut slick road legals that have just enough tread on one tyre to be legal on road! Both going bargain basement cheap and near enough for me to get to quickly!

Got the car back together good news is my motor mounts minus the center beam and tranny mount doesn't seem to have effected anything but I didn't try too hard as numpty here forget to hook up the main PCV breather pipe to the pan! so was very smokey and smelly driving for a few miles to get back home! lol! good job i accidentally over filled the oil a little bit! lol! So got it back and managed to put it back on ok. I also managed to get the F2 tubes into the carbs and not sure whats up with the tuning used same air correctors and jets as the F16 and it just kills top end power dead. So for now I've gone back to the F16.

09-08-2011, 02:42 PM
Well I got my spare upper arms and I increased the slots to 1inch on all the holes which is 1/8" bigger than stock or about 7-8mm in modern numbers! lol!
All I can say is wow! I now have oversteer back again! But went for a bit of a drive and went a bit mad in some back country lanes and after 10 minutes of madness got back on some decent tarmac and the tyres had stopped screeching and all I had was solid grip all round with the mildest hint of overteer to help get round the tighter stuff better! This car is just awesome it's handling is just on a whole new level it's way better than the BMW now and that handles pretty darn good for a 1.5 tonne beast! I just can't wait to get some sticky tyres on this thing it's gonna be insane! I haven't enjoyed driving this car so much for a long long time it's been a bit touchy of late with it's out of balance brakes and soft rear suspension but now that is all gone, even the brakes barely make the car move with the new suspension being so stiff! I know they're still out a bit as one tyres will eventually lock up before the other but it's stopped the wild pulling to the left it had before with soft springs! Just wish I could work out whats causing the fuel cut out on right hand bends most likely think it's crap in the tank as left bends are fine and down straight road. May try to drain the tank but to be honest shouldn't make much difference and it only happens on the main circuit part throttle is fine.
But I'm so happy now with the car it's just stupid stupid insanely gonna get me into so much trouble fast now! I'm going to have to start booking up some more track days now!! :cheers:

09-09-2011, 05:34 AM
Some free suspension mods! :0)
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/302706_10150364970693103_625918102_9816206_6782410 76_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297752_10150364970388103_625918102_9816201_3307008 62_n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/308291_10150364969318103_625918102_9816192_6674745 89_n.jpg

And another pic of my Gaz shock fitted to front suspension.

09-12-2011, 06:01 AM
Well had some fun tinkering with the car this weekend! managed to get most of the things i wanted to get done finished!
First off found an excellent place to get the suspension setup local and cheap race car outfit based in a WW2 fort near me! cool location too!
They checked my setup my lovely new elongated upper arms actually gave me -4 degrees camber!! So we dialed it back a bit to -3.5 degrees as suggested by you guys, that's with me in the car and full tank of petrol. The rear camber came in at -2 degrees although I need to work on the righhand side a little as when i hit a large hole in the ground going off track at Oulton Park a long time ago it's clearly bent something a tiny bit as it's only just over -1 degree hopefully can pull out the arm a bit or I'll try to move the shock in a little bit on the tower and elongate the holes etc. Rear toe set at 15 minutes in, front toe and caster 0 degrees. Handles beautifully and nice and straight. Didn't corner weight the car unfortunately as I didn't get time to strip out everything and their scales were off at a race meet anyways will get this done maybe next weekend.
I did manage to get the car on their rolling road dyno dynamics dyno as i wanted to check A/F ratio and also state of the engine as I've felt that since summer it's been not running very well and felt down on power.
I was right only showed 163.9bhp so lost 20 odd bhp from last engine which had lower compression ratio so if anything should be a bit up from that build!
So went back to basics and did a compression check think I've lost a bit since but I'm also using thinner sythetic oil showing 185psi on all 4 cylinders which is ok but I'm more use to getting 210psi and sometimes more, but it was cold engine and had been left standing for whole night so most the oil probably gone from rings as well. Checked the rockers they were a little tight but not amazingly but readjusted from cold to .17mm on inlet and .25mm on exhaust, but biggest issue was using the wrong plugs forgot I'd switched them to normal crappy ones so I didn't wear out my expensive racing ones! doh! Stuck them back in and put it all back together again. Damn thing wouldn't start pulled it all out checked spark good, fuel pressure good, tried new plugs just in case still not firing! Hmmm tried easy start into carbs started! WTF is wrong with carbs, used a bit of choke and started working! ran for a bit and eventually sorted itself out never had that happen before! odd thing is all i did was adjust two top nuts on one carb and replaced the rubber washers which had perished? Couldn't have made that much difference surely?
Anyway thing is running way better now! easily another 10-15bhp back and top end and midrange much better! But biggest shock on the Rolling road was that the mixture was so lean on idle, low revs and midrange that it could clasify as low emissions engine!!! So have to look at changing my idle jets to something much bigger and also my pump jets as well as they have more of an effect on midrange. Interesting thing is on the dyno graph was it was pulling like a train climbing very quickly to 163bhp then at 7000rpm just dies so think that's my exhaust bottle necking the engine for sure!
So now the car is in the exhaust shop now hoping he can build me a new header and system but he's up to his eyeballs in work so may have to make do with a downpipe and system for now but that should still be way better than what I have at the moment we shall see hopefully get it back wednesday night or Thursday night at latest will let you know how it goes all depends on price and time!
Other things though i managed to do was completely strip the hell out of the car! glove box and few bits attached to the lower dash all gone, fitted extinguisher where box was, I've removed all the interior trim and all the bits that they fitted into, the roof lining all gone, miracoulously the rood had next to no rust on the inside! aerial gone, extra sound deadening from boot gone, headlight motors gone, rigged up an engenious way off fixing them up and down, drilled a couple of small holes through the arm and into the chassis and used a giant size R clip to hold it in place! works like a charm and the weight of the motors and bolts were pretty substantial! Gutted everything out the doors apart from the manual winder mechanism as didn't have time to fit plastic windows and thought might as well use them! but i removed every little bit of metal that wasn't needed from the door, the thing that holds door in place was heavy, and all the brackets and tabs that were screwed in for the panels to hold em in place all removed. Also removed a few heavy duty bolts that were for the rear belts and also the sound deadening on the front bulkhead, I'm thinking about some harnesse's so i can ditch the heavy mechanism for the seat belts, also ditched all the rubber finishers round the windows, and doors, and anything else that was rubber removed from boot and bonnet, amazing howmuch those things weigh when put together! So the car is about as stripped as it can get only the windows are what I can save weight on in future so probably only able to get it 10kg's lighter or so by plexi glassing the side windows. Didn't get time to bonnet pin the bonnet and boot, tbh don't think i would have saved much as the weight of the pins and catches weren't much lighter than the hinges and locks and the inconvenience off having to undo them all the time I think would drive me nuts! I may do the bonnet as this has the heaviest hinges but something I'll look at another day! Will weight them first just to see if it's worth doing! I think i would have only saved a few kg's by doing this and would have taken me too much time which would have stopped me doing other mods! Wing mirrors are on for now will take em off when I get to the event! Spare seat and belt still in incase i need to drive a passenger their and back but easy to remove when their and will give the bird something to sit in if it's a nice day! lol! Must say the interior looks pretty cool now it's all stripped out later on I'll get some cheap plastic sheet and cover the rear quarter and doors to tidy things up a bit. All in all quite a bit of weight removed and car feels definately better for it! I did add some weight on though I cut up an old front speaker from a prelude and glued the magnet to the back corner off the fuel tank to try and collect the crap swimming around in the tank that's blocking my fuel pickup, i think it is working but will probably need a bit of driving to collect all the debris, I may move it as well as I think if it's a lot that it still may block the pickup as I've got it right near it at the moment may move it to the middle of the tank or maybe cut up another speaker and add one to the other side. What do you guys' think about that mod then worth a try? as can't think what else to try other than new tank but won't have time for that!
Anyways hoping to win some nice sticky dunlops tonight I have a set of TSW Imola 15" wheels to put them on will update you all on the exhaust in a day or so! Can't wait for Friday hoping i can find my camera stand for the car and take some in car footage for you all!

09-12-2011, 03:56 PM
HOLY SHIT, 163whp, thats great man! Kinda jealous even, up here at alitude, that same power would turn into (provided its tuned equally well) 139whp! I'm so jealous of sea level folks right now!

09-13-2011, 12:21 AM
Mate I'm not happy it was 183bhp on the old engine with a bad tune and was only 8.8:1 CR ratio!! :0(
This one is in bad need of a rolling road tune up, mid range is so lean and idle is just zero emissions and even leaner! The CR ratio is at least around 10:1 so should be making more power than last engine, but as I said after i did some tinkering it's at least back up to around 175-180bhp but I've not changed any jets yet so could be more to be had, I'll tinker more with it after the exhaust is done as it will need re doing again anyway! Also I think I put one of the carbs out of alignment when I changed some rubber vibration washer that were shot. So should be able to put down some good power by Friday hopefully be hitting the 200bhp mark again. Main thing is i got most the excess weight out the car so when i do get the extra power it is gonna really fly!!

09-14-2011, 06:56 PM
Wait rich are these powers in bhp or whp?

09-15-2011, 02:57 AM
Flywheel hence why I'm not happy! lol!
It's getting better though exhaust is done and F me is it bleeding loud! Engine is definately up a whole different level and sounds so much more lively because of it!! Have to completely go over the carbs having so much fueling issues at the moment really hard to get it to start which was never a problem before!! Not sure what's happening at the moment also need to mess with plugs and ignition again.

09-15-2011, 04:13 PM
Damn rich, you really need to megajolt your carbed car! totally worth it! way more adjustment that the silly stock dizzy!

09-19-2011, 03:24 AM
Well found the issue and spent a whole night raggin it up and down a dual carraige way with a petrol station at both ends of a roundabout to change jets, pretty much got everything spot on apart from now after the 999 challenge it's gone a bit wobbly over 7k rpm could be fouled plugs will clean them and try and again.

Spent the whole night trying the jetting, still have F16's as on the AFR it was running at 12.5 which is fine any richer and will be too much! In fact I've actually leaned it out a bit more so probably more like 12.75-13 now, went up to 180 airs and 150 mains, I've also sorted out the lean idle and mid range, I drilled out the idle jets and pump jets to .65 mm and seems way happier! I can actually have the idle screws screwed in to the correct level for the first time ever!! they are set at 1.75 turns out, I also found out the issue with one side which had the idle screws out 2 turns more than the other carb so probably why it was being a pain to start, seems to be better now but we'll see when I get home!

So the idle, midrange and mains circuits all seem to be in tune and at a good A/F ratio running much better but still getting fuel cutting out on right hand bends so need to do something about the tank must be something rusted up inside that's loose blocking fuel.

Got everything up and running for last Friday car ran lovely to the track was about 1.5 hours drive. Took the spare seat out, passenger belt, and the wing mirrors off then hit the drag strip first.

Now still running 195/50/15 size tyres with Vredestein sportrac 3's which are really a rain tyre ok when really warmed up in dry but rain is their thing!
Ran consistent 14.13 seconds with terminal speeds just a smidge under 100mph fastest one was 99.97mph so was well chuffed! Personal best before was 14.5 at 94mph so big improvement over this!! Was hoping to get into the 13's and over 100mph but started getting issues above 7k rpm possibly the plugs had fouled as had done quite a few hard runs and engine was getting pretty hot too. But to be honest with the tyres I had being smaller in diameter I was having to change upto 4th gear although this was quite early I think hanging it out in 1st-3rd would be better and having 205/50/15 which are bigger diameter would have given me more speed in each gear and would have not needed to use 4th gear! The new suspension helped loads I jacked it right up and traction even with an open diff was pretty impressive!! Beat plenty of RWD and 4WD drive cars easily off the line where as before they allways got the first few metres on me!
Came 3rd overall out of 40 cars all in the same budget and only ones that beat me were a Scooby with upped boost and NOS and a Fiat Coupe with upped boost and NOS and they both had better dry tyres too so I was well happy! Main thing is that I beat the MR2 with the Camry V6 conversion!!

Now the Handling circuit in the afternoon was a bit of a mix bag, first run I put the rear of the suspension back down to the ground and pumped up the tryres to 28psi, way way way too much understeer tyres screeching like made absloute awefull! And to top it off no power coming out the figure of eight to the stop box so was loosing at least a whole second there! So next one I dropped the tyre pressure on the front to 20psi and this helped a bit but still hard to get the back end round and the fuel problem still there, 3rd run and they ran out of time so couldn't get anymore in so I jacked the rear of the car up 3 inches, and then softened the dampers on the front and attacked it best i could, the car was oversteering now which was perfect for the figure off eight and posted 6th fastest time after I pulled out over a second improvement on previous time. managed a 26.17s the MR2 was 24.43s and the scooby was 25.53, was enough to put me overall 4th which I was happy about but annoyed as with the right tyres and no fuel cutting out issue could have easily won probably both events or at least won overall.

So will tweak and tune and re enter next year and should be way faster but will probably do some auto slalom/X events and hill climb to have some fun in because I think this car has become seriously competitive now!! :devil:

09-19-2011, 12:57 PM
Damn rich, that sounds great!!! Let me know if you need more setup help! hahaha

09-20-2011, 01:43 AM




Some pics look how flat it corners even on the figure off eight probably roll a bit more on stickier tyres though!

09-20-2011, 03:10 PM
Wow, look at the body roll.. err should I say no body roll..

Good job, Rich. Keep up the good work!! :thumbup:

09-20-2011, 04:42 PM
Dude, you should have hooked up a rear sway bar! Just fyi, you should be running your fronts nearly full soft, just enough to keep it from bouncing, and then running your rears at nearly full hard! add a sway for the low speed courses and remove the sway for anything your going to see more than 70mph on! I'm not going to lie, my current suspension driving at the limit at more than 70mph is a little bit sketch! Once everything is set right, you should be able to adjust how much oversteer you want with the amount of compression in the rear shocks... you want more, turn them up, you want less soften them up. Just looking at your pics (mostly the last one) is telling me that you may have had your *front shocks a little high on the valving, just suspecting anyway

09-21-2011, 02:36 AM
The pics were from 2nd or first run which I had left the shocks and height pretty much alone apart from bringing the back end down to lowest level.

I know that was a mistake now and on the 3rd and final run which was quickest as well I softened the front more, let more air out the front too down to 20psi, and then jacked the rear end up a few inches which really helped, I think if I'd pushed the front arms in to max for -4 degrees camber would have helped, also having less toe in at the back would have been better as well but to be honest this autotest style thing isn't my cuppa tea so I'll be leaving the camber and toe settings alone and will just play with bigger faster circuits where my setup is better suited. For next year I'll set it up again more for this type of event and hopefully win! Was good fun though especially trying to steer round the figure of 8 as fast as possible!!

Would stiffer front springs help with front end grip?

09-21-2011, 03:24 PM
harder springs in the front will make it understeer more. really only harder springs in the rear or softer springs in the front will make it understeer less. but really there is something close to the perfect spring rates... and i'd say you have it. hahaha, just need to hook that rear sway bar up!!! if you spend any money, you should buy an addco rear sway bar!

09-22-2011, 02:32 AM
Would an SI rear bar with upgraded links be any good? Think the Addco one is bit hard to get here and not sure if it's worth the money for the benefit.

09-22-2011, 11:48 AM
Wow. Pictures! Cool

All that text had me glazed over..

09-22-2011, 04:11 PM
hahahaha your funny roach,

Rich, I'm not thinking that a factory bar would help that much... but i would be a slight improvement. I know Rusty has talked about using solid mounts on the rear factory bar and claiming that that helped a bit, but my experience has been with the addco. I know it sucks that it would cost money to get it shipped out to ya, but that bar is a very well made bar, and installation is pretty easy and straight forward (drill the hardware with the car on the ground). I think the wait would be worth it, and extra parcel would be worth it. That bar is awesome. the factory bar is only 13mm, and this thing is mounted different and 19mm. A must have truely, much like better tires.

09-23-2011, 01:26 AM
OK matey will look into it maybe I'll get two off them to make it worthwhile! lol! What about the front sway just leave that stock? is it worth putting SI one on if possible?

09-23-2011, 01:32 PM
i think the stock one will be fine. I'm running a stock front on my Red car, but i'm running a Koni on the front of the white car. now, i didn't ever go from stock to koni to compare direct to direct, but i went from none to koni, and it was a huge difference. better in the full out throttle/speed control on even the craziest of twisties, even probably helped the oversteer a bit because it was giving the front more bite, but it was different type of oversteer, more control! But i think this difference wouldn't be that noticable from a stock one to the Koni one. technically a larger front bar will make it tend to understeer, and that sounds like an issue already.

09-24-2011, 09:07 PM
The stock sway bar can be beneficial but the weak link is the rubber bushings. With the addco you car run the stock one plus the addco. So oversteer would happen a lot. But im just running 550lb springs in the rear and get lift off oversteer lol

09-25-2011, 04:27 AM
lift off oversteer isn't an issue on mine, rear traction is just so good compared to the front, but then again the front is still way better than it used to be, I'm finding that altering the ride height and the damping between front and back is helping me tune the suspension to the track so if it's tight and twisty I jack up the back and lower the front, if it's fast sweeping bends then lower back end and it's fine, I can still add more front camber if needed max is now -4 degrees and still have abillity to alter the toe on the back and caster on front, but need to start looking at ways of altering the rear camber more to at least have it increased with higher height and also to even it up as there's a -1 degree difference between the two sides, have a feeling either the arm or the hub is bent slightly from an old off road moment at a track day a long time ago.

09-25-2011, 08:29 AM
Rich, your adjusting the preload mostly here, but i would'nt be surprised if the changes in ride height are changing your alignment enough in the rear to be making a difference. Honestly its going to be hard to tune your suspension without something a little bit sticker than what you have... my new rs3 are pretty nice!

09-26-2011, 04:03 AM
Yeah I know I'm really trying to get something sticky but it's not cheap over here, I can get the old ones RS2 in 205/50/15 which are 78 each but need to add 10 to fit still. The Yokohama's neova AD08 are 90 each for same size other than expensive Toyo R888 (trying to get some used ones) that's about it that is sensibly priced.

09-28-2011, 02:49 PM
And in True Italian tradition the Webers stop working! lol! Well not completely still function by dumping lots of fuel in but found out what is causing the flooding and couple of other issues, the plunger that is used to pump the pump jets one had snapped off the end that hooks onto a brass piston that pumps the fuel in. Just had to strip the whole thing off to bits manifold and everything, might use this as oppurtunity to either swap heads to A18, or to have the stainless manifold flanges flattened on milling machine while it's all off maybe both! lol!
Trying to think off some other things I can do to help the webers work better and be more reliable, to be honest I'd just love to either get some bike carbs to play with or a new pair of DCOE's!! But I guess I'll just have the same issues again in another decade! lol! They seem all good apart from the plungers already replaced most things, only thing i haven't done is a spindle and butterfly strip down, but they all seem good with no movement issues and I've replaced the return springs on the spindles already before!! (have a habit off snapping and leaving the throttle sticking open!!)

09-28-2011, 03:01 PM
Maybe get some Mexcian-made DCOES! I'm sure they'll be way more reliable.... ;-)

09-28-2011, 03:16 PM
Lol well thinking about it these are suppose to be the better Spanish made ones!

09-29-2011, 11:20 AM
sweet struts and great action pics, bet it tears up the cones.

10-13-2011, 02:41 PM
Hopefully find some decent events to compete in next year all a bit dried up for this year now with winter coming! got two weekends left to do some more tuning on the drag strip and try and break into the 13's and get over 100mph.

Heres some vid links to the Handling course we had to tackle, was a bit pants but good fun non the less!


My run is 6.58s into the video


My run is 4.53s into the video managed to not knock the cone over this time! lol!

10-13-2011, 08:03 PM
they probably could have managed that dip placement a little better! I will say, of all the cars, yours definitely looked the flattest suspension wise! Shame that little guy was sputtering after that final right hander

10-14-2011, 03:52 AM
I know it sounded awful lol! Not sure if it was due to the broken pump jet piston haven't been able to do any really fast right hand bends to check have to do some roundabouts but I haven't noticed it cutting out at all now so maybe it's fixed.

10-18-2011, 02:03 PM
I have zero fuel cut right now!! I honestly think that resyncing them right this time and the addition of the antivibe mounts while getting rid of the silly fuel splitter has helped loads! Keep me posted on the suspension!! I really want to know about these buggers! I'm thinking about getting my Red Prelude bugged;)

10-18-2011, 02:40 PM
Damn thing is still cutting out although it's not as bad as before and seems to take a while longer to cut in but that could be just my magnet delaying the debris from getting sucked up eventually, I think I need to think about a new tank a nice small fuel cell made from ally would be nice! :0)
Wonder if I can convert a FI tank to Carb? any ideas? or I could have the old one cut in half have it sand blasted inside an out, have it welded back up and coated inside and out. Makes having a ally one a whole lot easier decision! lol!
Any other ideas worth thinking about? I'd like to keep the tank where it is if possible but this fuel cutting out business on right hand bends is driving me nuts! lol!

10-18-2011, 02:51 PM
I think the first step would be to take the tank off and look inside the thing... A fuel cell would be nice, but without a truck and or trailer your mileage would be very limited. Think about it, who buys a 15 gallon fuel cell? hahaha Plus you'd have to think about mounting it too, the best place would be where the current one is now... I think a used tank would be the way to go, but rather than just throw money at it (I'm terrible about that) at least take it out and check to make sure it is actually full of crap. Don't you have like 4 cars or something?

10-19-2011, 02:52 AM
Yeah got a few but all the spare ones are SI tanks are these pretty much the same.

10-20-2011, 04:40 AM
Well I think I've sussed out the issue with the high end miss fire, my regulator I think is on the way out again! (this is like the 10th one I've killed now, they've all been 2nd hand ones but thinking this can't be the reason or is it they just get old and die after a while? or is it the 8k rpm redline that's killing them?)
But anyway the reg/alt has been fluctuating my volts up and down like a yoyo, if i put everything on like lights, interior fan, rad fan, rear screen heater it dies down to like 12 volts and then the ignition starts to struggle and causes a upper end miss fire between 7-8krpm, but if i turn the stuff off it's voltage shoots through the sky and starts getting dangerously close to 16 volts which is about where my Fuel pump decides enough is enough and fries itself, done this before many a time when the lude has been a PIA starting from being left for a month and fuel relay cuts in. If battery gets drained and alternator can go into a over drive mode to charge it quickly but volts increase really high and the Facet fuel pump just can't take it and craps out. (Maybe I should rig up a voltage protection circuit into it? hmmm!) so for the moment I've been driving around with everything on and the voltage nice and low to help it, didn't think this would effect the ignition too much, but last night it started spluttering a tiny bit after having it running nicely for couple of nights in the colder wearther, but thought damn not again and thought well lets see what happens if the voltage is higher, so turned everything off except the lights and then did a couple of pulls in 2nd and 3rd to 8krpm and bingo all nice and consistent and no coughing spluttering!!
And before you say it yes I do need to bug Cygnus about Megajolt upgrade but just not now got too much going on with other things in life.

10-20-2011, 03:46 PM
Damn rich, its starting to sound like 8k is becoming more and more problematic! Funnest thing about going that high with a motor that was factory limited to 6300 is the fact that the motor seems to care the least about the added rpm. Everything else is freaking out!

10-24-2011, 03:01 AM
Yay was the regulator put a brand new one in and now at a steady 14.5volts!! :0)
Unfortunately still have a tiny bit of stuttering but I think that's due to the huge temp drop we got over this week so probably have to decrease the air corrector to richen it a tiny bit

01-21-2012, 09:19 AM
After my Ajusa gasket blew across the middle two cylinders and was leaking on 1 and 4 I've got my nice lovely teflon coated Felpro on with my nice shiny rebuilt A18 big valve head fitted. It's alive which is more can be said for the Beemer which is dead! It's quick but needs a bit more running in, and some tweeks which I need to deal with then tuning it all up hopefully next weekend for MOT test. Loads of low and midrange torque even with the 285 camshaft which is good, top end needs attention has a bit of a miss fire but it feels real quick!! Had a little test drive round the lanes and it's fast can really feel the extra torque on these A18 they really do work nice if your after torque rather than BHP. Not sure how much better it will be but I'll be happy with 190-200bhp and oodles of torque but we'll see stock ported manifold still a restriction and so is stock ignition system. Ideally I'd love to be running an ET1 with a 2.0l bore but I have no spare blocks left and only one head gasket left that will fit one if i did. CR ratio should be pretty good now with the A18 head sitting on A20A4 block.

01-22-2012, 11:48 AM
Well started up the old girl again today, did some more tweaking, changed the ignition timing for a little more retard, and oh my god it's now pulling like a train from 5-8k rpm it's quite frankly slightly scary!! lol!!
I can't wait to get this car to the tuners to dial in the carbs for emissions and power on full throttle!! Going to hopefully get this done Saturday morning and ready for MOT test in afternoon then back to being road legal!! Yay!!
Haven't change the jetting settings from when it was running last but to be honest doesn't seem to be too bad as it is!! May just be a case of fiddling with the ignition timing and altering some idle jets and possibly trying a couple of different air correctors and main jets. But I'm pretty happy with it so far and that's just with a few blips up and down the back roads. 2nd gear is just killer!! Hit's 70mph in no time!!
Going to heat cycle it again tomorrow, then check for any leaks and bleed the coolant in the system. Then will compression check each cylinder and see where were at hopefully that will be at around 180-190psi per cylinder and then we'll know were in business if that's the case!

01-22-2012, 12:02 PM
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/404822_10150609787503103_625918102_10942408_194482 5247_n.jpg
Inlet ports with bronze guides

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/404227_10150609786268103_625918102_10942402_183123 1716_n.jpg
Nice view of the whole assembly fitted quite a difference to the A20 setup bit shorter and the odd offseting of the inlet ports

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394446_10150609784568103_625918102_10942397_971664 29_n.jpg
Close up of the chambers

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/404772_10150609783478103_625918102_10942393_111716 2021_n.jpg
Inlet valve head

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/404612_10150609782193103_625918102_10942384_156895 5739_n.jpg
Side profile of the inlet valve head

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/397069_10150609781313103_625918102_10942375_214169 8909_n.jpg
Exhaust valve head

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/400296_10150609780118103_625918102_10942370_458233 520_n.jpg
Side profile of exhast valve head

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/394816_10150609779208103_625918102_10942364_205684 7512_n.jpg
Both valves together quite a size difference inlet 33mm exhaust 37mm on this head

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/398494_10150609777138103_625918102_10942352_157773 8449_n.jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/405430_10150609775798103_625918102_10942346_121952 021_n.jpg

01-24-2012, 11:16 PM
Those intake ports are huge :O

01-24-2012, 11:29 PM
Those valves look so shiny! lol

01-25-2012, 04:37 PM
wow, that looks amazing...

01-26-2012, 10:12 AM
Are those custom valves? Looks good!!! Vids? :thumbup:

01-27-2012, 10:41 PM
Oh yeah they certainly are :)
With a new a18 head with these valves cr ratio would be better seats had to be cut deep as this is 3rd time they've been done, but head still has some life and it works well! Should be good for 15-20k miles as long as headgasket can hold up ok have felpro in now guessing cr ratio is around 10.5-11:1.

01-27-2012, 10:42 PM
Well did q compression test good news is its not toast lol 195psi on 1 and 4 180psi on 3 but 2 was down to 175psi probably poor ring gapping from me as I just over filed one set if rings on one cylinder by a smidge and didn't bother changing to a new ring to redo.

Could also be a slightly leaky valve seat as its still not done much miles wo compression could increase still! But to be getting 195psi on a 285 cam is vgood with the overlap!

Anyway carb tuner was a legend dialed them in quick he said my main jets I had done wasn't far off so he only had to really tweek the idle circuit and ignition timing weirdly it loves 4-6 degrees 10 and it lost power! How weird is that! So no point using super unleaded lol!

Anyway to all you peeps who think an a18 has no power how does nearly 200bhp at 7400rpm with nearly 160lbft at 5500rpm grab you! Well hapoy to finally have a a18 pulling these numbers! Don't forget this is a stick a20a3/4 block with just a modded head, reground cam, stock cast header, and webers bolted on, ignition is stock too! To get well over 200bhp going to get header custom made soon and then look at bisi cam with more lift should increase rev band to 8k and more power and torque I would expect about 215-220bhp and 165-170lbft. After that we would have to look at titanium rods custom forged high ce pistons, more titanium goodies for wrist pins retainers, lighter valves, thinner stems, and weber dcoe 48's would be a must with 44mm chokes.

01-27-2012, 10:43 PM
Will post graphs up later when u scan em off to get car tested now! :)

01-28-2012, 09:56 AM
badass!!! Can't wait to see the graphs!! :thumbup:

01-28-2012, 12:42 PM
Dude that soynds amazing! I truely need to spend some time n a head like you did! Do you know if any head will work on my weird et2 block? I do have a spare a20 head that i was going to save for a wicked a20 build in the coupe somewhere down the road...

01-30-2012, 12:33 AM
Whats a weird ET2 block? Or you mean your ET block? (as in old design?)

Graph is here! yay!

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/402370_10150626618768103_625918102_10988444_157700 0508_n.jpg

I think real world it's probably putting down a bit more power and torque from the cooler air outside and also more air rushing into the engine bay. Seriously have lots of traction issues in 1st and 2nd gear if I give it full beans from standstill.

01-30-2012, 05:28 PM
wow rich, thats amazing!!! you need to build a honest high compression block to go with all that head! That thing must be flowing like crazy!

what i was saying before is that I've got that weird ET2 block that has the odd head gasket... I'm sure i've got pictures of said head gasket in my build, I was just curious, being that I do have an extra A20 head... Would be nice to get the Roland manifold for the A20, and switch to it later, of course if it works or not...

Its starting to look like my goal of reaching 140whp here at 5200ft about sea level is going to be hard to do!

01-31-2012, 10:12 AM
That's awesome! Is that power at the wheels?!

01-31-2012, 03:51 PM
Lol I wish it was!! Getting 230bhp out of an A18/20 hybrid would be sweet but I'd need a bit more work.
For starters the head was a bit rushed, didn't get the best possible valve stem sizes due to cockup by machinist, so ended up with 7mm stems all round, next time round I'd go with 6.5mm on exhaust vavles and 6mm on inlet valves using the supertech valve options or again maybe custom from SI. The shape of the valves isn't too bad but I had to do a lot to them to get them as nice as they are in the pictures just a shame I couldn't waste them anymore than they were, currently they had .5mm waisted from SI as standard. Also the chamber work was a bit rushed as it was a bit used from other builds and had suffered a bit of damage from a stray nut, but it had a big skim lots of deshrouding, but the inlet ports and exhaust ports have had some crazy work done to them and the inlet manifold is perfectly matched along with the gasket. The exhaust guide could have had a bit of work done to it but I decided to keep it stock to help cool exhaust valve and reduce wear on the guide itself, and also this is with a oem cast manifold albeit a modded one with bigger ports and smoothed out a bit on the inside, main increases in power for future is tubular custom race manifold, titanium retainers, smaller stems on valves, Bisi camshaft with increased lift this cam only has 10mm!!, fresher head with more seat left in the chambers and no damage to it, possibly titanium LS rods from eagle and some nice custom high compression pistons. This would definately see 240-250bhp I think given I'm getting this much with a stock A20A3/4 block an 9.4:1 compression pistons although with a A18 head on top it's more like 11:1 but if I can increase to 12:1 lighter rotating mass, could work into a very fine engine. Would probably need better induction so would have to look at weber DCOE 48's with 44mm choke or throttle bodies with 45mm bore size.

01-31-2012, 03:55 PM
Think for now I need to work on traction, so may have to think about LSD, but for now gonna get some super sticky tyres 205/50/15 or wider if I can, get the suspension up in the air on the back get bit more weight out the car. Hit the strip when the weather gets a bit less snowy and the car should be able to hit well into the mid 13's maybe less if I can get the traction!!

01-31-2012, 07:34 PM
You need something sticker for sure! Itll really wake up the suspension!

02-01-2012, 05:17 PM
I'm wanting to get a new suspension, and i love that you're there... near them. How much shorter are the shock bodies vs the stock ones... how is the valving on this thing, solid or dinky... how much lower can you go vs the pictures of the car... Do you think mark will be willing to go with inch shorter springs all around?

I've really been thinking about a suspension, and i'm seriously looking at these, but i'm worried that the valving isn't going to be solid... knowing its sizes would make me alot happier about the whole thing... (btw, just the shock bodies... not interested in the lengths including the pistons..)

(tried to PM you but your box is full...)

02-01-2012, 11:36 PM
Lol calm down! hehe! inbox is empty now.

As far as I can tell the shock bodies are pretty much the same as stock they used the original shocks to find something that was similiar to stock, how different they are I never compared to be honest. The front can go lower the rear about 1cm more if you remove the lock ring on the spring perch and just have the one and tighten it up against the body instead. (not sure how safe that is though with 600lb spring. Although in theory as you say you might be able to get a very slightly shorter spring which would be the better option. To be honest though my car is so low I'd hate to go any lower especially if it's going on the road still. I have to avoid certain roads as I know I won't clear the humps, the front can go about another inch lower if I dared too! lol! But I'm really happy with the handling as it is even with the 195 road tyres I'm using.
I think for the money you'd be happy be really hard to get something that would be better. Hot bit's maybe a better design and can be modded to give you everything you need but you'd be paying through your nose for it!! If money were no object I'd have gotten Hotbits and I'd still like to one day but I only had limited budget and still do plus their local so if they need rebuilding I can just pop them down myself!!

02-02-2012, 04:53 AM
Hmmm, still sounds tasty, I want to fully redo.the suspension, but it doesn't have to the fancy konis! This is quickly seeming the best all around option
And cant argue with the price!

02-02-2012, 11:06 AM
Shame u can't get a cheap flight over to try it out! I think u woukd be impressed it impressed me a lot! but then I only had koni reds and some avo lowering springs that only had low spring rates on rear but was still pretty good.

02-13-2012, 12:59 PM
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/419185_10150667062848103_625918102_11103150_357754 856_n.jpg

Hmmm shame I can't fit this to the lude!!

02-13-2012, 02:04 PM
what in the world is that for? the Bimmer?

02-13-2012, 02:59 PM
I have to take a trip over to your shop man. and see it for my self, or if you'd like to take a trip over here this summer. Gatebil.no man, best European car gathering. its only overnight trip with a boat from Newcastle.

Is it side mounted intercooler/watercooler? hard to say with no reference point.