using clock display as wideband gauge

[mykwikcoupe]

I found a post and I think its a great idea. The problem is I dont want to use a home built wideband. Id like to use the plx or lc-1 wideband units. Im wondering though, if the wideband hookup goes to the 6 pin on an obd1 ecu, what can I use for an output display to run to the clock. Also would it be easier to order the NAW display to mod into the clock screen as they did in the post. I don't want all these crazy gauges in my car since its NA and ITBs. What else would one want to monitor on a NA car that the computer doesn't already?
http://forum.ectune.com/viewtopic.php?t=2631&sid=13c90911d91cab964b3465b90ca0d6a8

Im good with wiring but I no nothing about electronics so I would probably need a pretty thorough explanation.

[RAZR]

This is a awesome idea.
I should think about doing this.

[Dr_Snooz]

Agreed. That is a very cool project.

[itzdave]

i like the idea of keepin it totally stock looking. im still trying to find a place to mount my wideband and my shift light... we need to meet up again sometime, i have something i think u might like.

[mykwikcoupe]

really is it for sale then? Sounds good let me know when Im home almost every night. Ive been super busy on motorcycle projects but my car project list is about to get very intensive again. Ill give you a hint later

[cygnus x-1]

DUDE! This is a cool idea! I have a pretty good idea for what you would need to do this but it will take some time to find it. Years ago I bought one of those electronic hobby kits to display temperature from an included sensor. The kit was basically just a simple 4 digit LCD display that would measure a voltage and display a number based on that voltage. But you could calibrate it with two resistors to read from any low voltage sensor you want. It would be pretty easy to adapt something like that to fit in the factory clock location and read from the spare analog output on your wideband of choice. I know the LC-1 has two outputs, not sure about the PLX.

Let me look around a bit and see what I can find.


C|

[mykwikcoupe]

so as an update, I found what I believe to be a better display http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/HackerTweaker/Hacker_Tweaker.shtml
I measured the OEM clock and this will not fill the entire area like I had hoped but the numbers are taller then stock clock display. I took my flashlight and shined it into the clock display and found they have a reduced display behind what looks like the small metal filler window. My hope it to separate the clock in layers and keep that filler window, trim it to the correct size for this display and go from that idea.

The question I have, this is designed for a different manufactures wideband, do I still use the innovate LC-1 or buy the Zeitronix wideband? It would be more expensive but also more likely to plug and pay. I havent done my research on the quality of the company and products yet, what do you think?

Anyways thats the hope for the next week or 2. Order the part, get spare clock and proceed with file.

[Buzo]

With the permit of Mr. mykwikcoupe I am going to bump this thread because the idea is just so cool! and its doable with a simple microprocessor chip. He and I have been discussing this topic in private, but I guess it is time to document it for everybody else.

Characteristics:

1) Use the stock clock's Vacuum Fluorescent Display (VFD) to display your AFR.
2) Use the Reset button in the clock assembly to navigate through some menu options:
a) Press and release.- Switch from clock mode to AFR mode
b) Press and release again.- Switch from AFR to clock mode
c) Press and Hold.- Switch from WB to NB sensor (0-5V or 0-1V scales)
d) Press and Hold again.- Switch from NB to WB
3) Can be used in any of our cars with the stock Oxygen Sensor by wiring the O2 sensor signal from the ECU to the back of the clock. I understand the FI cars have two O2 sensors, so I may add another menu item for the second sensor, and you would need to wire the two sensor signals to the clock.

Each segment in the VFD is handled by a separated output of the stock clock controller, so we need 7 pins per digit x 3 1/2 digits = 23 pins. Since I want to keep the clock function, I am going to put the micro in the middle of the stock controller and the VFD, so all the traces will be cut and solder one side of the trace to the input and the other side to the output of the new micro, then the micro will serve as a simple selector SW connecting the input straight to the output when in clock mode, or running the internal program when in AFR mode.
Around 50 pieces of wire need to be soldered to complete the modification, but everything should fit inside the clock's case.

The schematic would look something like this:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5145/afrgauge.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/444/afrgauge.png/)

[ecogabriel]

86-87 EFI Accords have only one oxygen sensor (same fror 85-87 EFI Preludes); 88-89s have two oxygen sensors and the two-stage intake manifold.... snif...

I like the idea of using that clock for something else... and that it would fit within the boundaries of the stock clock makes it even cooler!

[Buzo]

I removed the clock from the car, and I will be finding the traces to cut and rewire to the new microcontroller. There is a lot of room in the back of the dash where the clock is installed, so I will not suffer trying to make it too compact. We are a very few days away from seeing the first clock-AFR gauge!!

[Buzo]

As usually happens to me, after some testing I found that hacking the stock clock will require a few more components than I thought. All segments are driven by 9V and my processor is for 5V, so a lot of amplifiers would be needed.

So switched to the option 2 which is to make a direct fit clock/afr assembly.

I completed the design and I will make a small run of PCBs. The only difference would be that it will look as a LED display instead of VFD display. But as you can see I got the 7 segment displays with similar size as the stock ones.

It is pretty much a clock with the ability to measure voltage (clock-voltmeter?). 3 buttons to adjust Hour/Minutes and the selector between afr gauge and clock.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9593/o2display.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/o2display.png/)

[Tdurr]

Make me one? Lol ill pay... Ive wanted to do that with the last car but i got the eugo so i never attempted to do it. But with tjos one being a sleeper again id love it..

[mykwikcoupe]

My gauge interior is a blue LED. Not sure if its possible to get that into the design. The design is great.

[turabaka]

As usually happens to me, after some testing I found that hacking the stock clock will require a few more components than I thought. All segments are driven by 9V and my processor is for 5V, so a lot of amplifiers would be needed.

So switched to the option 2 which is to make a direct fit clock/afr assembly.

I completed the design and I will make a small run of PCBs. The only difference would be that it will look as a LED display instead of VFD display. But as you can see I got the 7 segment displays with similar size as the stock ones.

It is pretty much a clock with the ability to measure voltage (clock-voltmeter?). 3 buttons to adjust Hour/Minutes and the selector between afr gauge and clock.

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/9593/o2display.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/600/o2display.png/)


How much would you be looking to get for one? I'm definitely interested. Been wanting to tuck my lm-1 somewhere hidden, and this would be just the thing to do it.

[Rendon LX-i]

I agree times 2 lol

[MessyHonda]

yup that is one cool mod... in for one too!

[Buzo]

I have one Display working. I've been trying with some filters so I can make the numbers out of any color. Right now I am trying to get the most light intensity I can, because it looks slightly dimmed in the direct light of the sun. Pics later...

[Buzo]

Everything is functionally working OK, but I can't see the numbers in the sun.
I have the fix for this just need to go to the electronics store tomorrow and buy the required parts.

[obdriver6]

Wow, that was fast! lol

[Rendon LX-i]

So when they up for sale lol

[POS carb]

lol I read the 1st post and immediately thought "where is Buzo?"
very nice

[Buzo]

lol I read the 1st post and immediately thought "where is Buzo?"
very nice

hahaha Well, thanks. I love to make electronic projects for cars and this one fit just great. And sorry for the lack of updates but Buzo was at San Antonio TX for vacation. Great time at the Sea World and the Six Flags Park!

I finished building four assemblies. The cost will be 45 USD + shipping. There are several filters that can be used to give it your preferred color. I still owe you the pictures, but I promise I will upload them very soon.

[Buzo]

I have been experimenting with lots of Display types, but just wanted to share the small one in the pic. Its one of the AFR gauge / clocks waiting its turn to be reinstalled in the car. So no, I have not forgotten...

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/8833/clockx.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/220/clockx.jpg/)

[Buzo]

I'm slightly behind in this project. I tried several designs to give more power to the Displays and I just couldn't see it during the daylight.

So, I'm back to the idea of re-using the Clock's Display. It will need more electronics, but we will see it under all conditions.

This is a good weekend to work on it.

Below the failing designs:

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4826/afrji.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/afrji.jpg/)

[Buzo]

I found the way to drive a 10V Display with a 5V microcontroller.

1st I had to find the connection for every single segment, so using my voltmeter and manually changing the hour I was able to draw the circuit.

Then I had to cut all the traces and reconnect it to the new microcontroller.

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9103/clockafr1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/clockafr1.jpg/)

http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/1857/clockafr3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/clockafr3.jpg/)

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1826/clockafr4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/502/clockafr4.jpg/)

Here is the new micro having full control of the Display.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9373/clockafr5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/clockafr5.jpg/)

[2ndGenGuy]

Man, I am so jealous of your electronics skills. So much potential for cool things you can do with the stock electronics like this!

[Buzo]

I encountered a couple of things I would like to comment:

Since the Display is designed for a clock, the second digit from right to left is supposed to display numbers from 0-5 only, so they commonized the segments in the top and the bottom, therefore they turn on and off together. Bottom line I can not display the #7.
Its not a big deal, but for an AFR gauge we will never see a 14.70, instead we will see 14.60 or 14.80

I the same way, the two center points are together, so when in AFR mode we would see 14:80.

We can put some paint to cover the upper point, so we will see 14.80 in AFR, but when in clock mode, the hour will display as 12.00.

[mykwikcoupe]

That wouldnt bother me in the least. I like it and would rock that in a heartbeat. I agree with John. You have very good electronic skills

[Buzo]

Thank you for your comments, guys.

Here is the clock calibrated as voltmeter with an error of +/-0.02 Volts

Here is also how the #7 is displayed in the second digit. All other digits in all other places are OK.

I will put it in my car "as is" because I have a NB O2 and I only care if the mix is above or below 0.5 Volts.

If you guys have the chart of AFR vs Voltage, please upload it for me so I can create a lockup table and replace the voltage value with the actual AFR. If not, then I would create one with 2.5 Volts = 14.7 AFR, 5 volts = 10 AFR and 0 Volts = 19.9 for the WB sensor option.

By the way, it is already working as a clock too. I used the seconds pulse out of the stock microcontroller, so the time precision will not change compared to the standard clock.

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3352/volts1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/volts1.jpg/)

http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/1601/volts2.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/volts2.jpg/)

[mykwikcoupe]

Works for me. Have you decided on a price range yet. I am not sure what you mean by the table but i will try to find something for you. i didnt realize you could use a NB as a WB just by recalibrating the values in graph form. I would think any adjustment would be thrown off as the range was displayed proportionally. Thats the nice thing about processors. They arent linear. Thats fantastic. How bad would it be program it not to display the 7 digit but rather range from .69 to .80? I realize .70 is perfect but how far out of variance would that make it in usable range?

[Buzo]

Installed it in the car and made this video just to show how it works.

The reset button will switch back and forth between Clock and AFR-Gauge. In clock mode will have the two center dots blinking.
In AFR mode will have them fixed.

The buttons for Hours and Minutes work only when it is in clock mode and they work just as normal.

I didn't have chance to connect the O2 sensor signal today, but I left a wire ready for making the connection asap.

In the video, when you see it in AFR-Gauge mode, it displays 6.50 because is the MAX voltage it can read (the O2 signal wire is loose open at this time)

http://youtu.be/92gR_2FIalI

[Buzo]

Works for me. Have you decided on a price range yet. I am not sure what you mean by the table but i will try to find something for you. i didnt realize you could use a NB as a WB just by recalibrating the values in graph form. I would think any adjustment would be thrown off as the range was displayed proportionally. Thats the nice thing about processors. They arent linear. Thats fantastic. How bad would it be program it not to display the 7 digit but rather range from .69 to .80? I realize .70 is perfect but how far out of variance would that make it in usable range?

I'll say that the cost is $45 USD to modify one clock.

To save time I can go to the yard and buy one clock asm, but need to add the cost of the clock to the $45, +shipping.

If someone wants to send me his clock, the cost would be only the 45 USD + shipping. I do have a receiving address in El Paso, so all shipping will be into the US.

The modification is reversible. In case we want our normal clock later, we just re-solder the cut traces and that's it.

There is a chart for the oxygen sensors, the x axis is the generated voltage and the y axis is the AFR, I only recall the center one which is 2.5V vs 14.7 but don't recall the extremes. I was wondering if someone has a copy of that chart.

Now that my clock is installed in the car, I will have chance to play with the 0.7 issue

Right now it displays the weird "inverted C", but i plan to test this:

Display 0.69 if the O2 voltage is between 0.70 and 0.75
Display 0.80 if the O2 voltage is between 0.76 and 0.79

I think it would work just fine. Nobody will notice it!

[mykwikcoupe]

http://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-22/formula-convert-stock-wideband-o2-reading-afr-182036/ post #15 possibly. Is this what you are looking for.

http://www.hondata.com/techwidebandtuning.html 1st post mid way down?

[Buzo]

http://www.rx8club.com/tech-garage-22/formula-convert-stock-wideband-o2-reading-afr-182036/ post #15 possibly. Is this what you are looking for.

http://www.hondata.com/techwidebandtuning.html 1st post mid way down?

Exactly! Link #1 has what I was looking for. If you see the curve of the AFR is not a straight line at 45 degrees, but has a different slope below stoich than above stoich. Thanks for finding the information for me!

For those with WB sensor it is nice to see your AFR almost constant throughout all your RPM scale.

For us with NB sensor, the reading must be jumping all the time. A constant reading in a NB sensor is a bad thing actually!

I have no access to youtube at this time to upload a new video with the finish product, but I'll put this picture in the meantime just to show it working. The car is not moving and it was after a 20 minutes trip. In reality it is jumping all the way from 0 to .80 all the time.

In the other hand, the clock is still "counting seconds" in the background, so when you switch to the clock mode, it shows you the correct time.

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5021/o2disp.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/o2disp.jpg/)

[Buzo]

Another solution for the 0.7 issue is that we could reduce the resolution to 1 decimal, just as the commercial afr gauges out there.


So we will see:

14.5
14.6
14.69
14.8
14.9...

being 14.69 our missing 14.7. Pretty close, hu?


Or maybe

14.67

or how about

14. 7

?

[POS carb]

http://www.gamefob.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shut-up-and-take-my-money1.jpg

[Buzo]

http://www.gamefob.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/shut-up-and-take-my-money1.jpg

Hahaha you are right.
Here is the option for you guys looking for the perfect AFR gauge for these cars.
Please feel free to PM me.

[obdriver6]

I need money!!!

[mykwikcoupe]

Are these officially for sale then. Sorry I havent been on much. Work has kept me very busy.

[Buzo]

Are these officially for sale then. Sorry I havent been on much. Work has kept me very busy.

Yes. its on sale for 45 USD + the clock asm + shipping.

I have been testing it during all this time. Its always in AFR mode and I change to clock momentarily when somebody asks "What time is it?"

It was really useful when I fixed my A/C, because due to the added load of the compressor my Fuel Table was reaching cells that I never tuned before. So its good to know why your engine is acting funny and just fix it later.

I went to the jy the other day and at least the 3geez I saw still have the clock asm, didn't ask for the price, but I bought something else and they just said "20 bucks" without really looking what it was. I assume anything that size will cost 20 bucks.

The real benefit (in price) would be if you send me your clock instead of getting an extra one.

There is no hurry or compromise, I did this just because the idea was so cool! and I need no more Displays in the car.

The other day my MAP hose came loose due to a backfire and I immediately noticed it because the AFR never came below 0.8 Volts, so yeah, I need no extra monitor for my MAP sensor.

[HondaSi88]

Will or can you do this for other cars? My vr4 needs u right now!!!!!!

[Buzo]

Will or can you do this for other cars? My vr4 needs u right now!!!!!!

Absolutely, The process would be like this:
send me your clock to El Paso Tx.
I'd need a week to understand the internal connections, modify, calibrate, test and ship it back.

Do you have a wide band or a narrow band sensor? If wide band send me the brand and model number so I can search for the voltage vs. AFR chart for your specific sensor. PM me whenever you are ready.

[HondaSi88]

No wideband as of yet...but i will def keep you in mind.

[mykwikcoupe]

so you seem to be referencing that you can display the actual AFR based on the narrowband. You are just scaling the values? If the narrowband is at a limit based on a tune will the display stop at that program limit (nb reading max rich within stock parameter, display would read 13?)

On my hatch i have the b16 swap and I know whoever tuned it last didnt do their homeowrk. they failed to check a few boxes eliminating the IACV and the ELV. I was told they imported the stock B16a3 file but Im running an aftermarket intake, stock TB and aftermarket exhaust. Id like to use this setup to test it out but if its out of range what would happen? Is it possible to programm in a setpoint limit and have the display read MAX or OL? I would hope in my case this wouldnt be the result but I have little faith.

thanks for the help on my other project. im reading and comprehending still.

[Buzo]

so you seem to be referencing that you can display the actual AFR based on the narrowband. You are just scaling the values? If the narrowband is at a limit based on a tune will the display stop at that program limit (nb reading max rich within stock parameter, display would read 13?)

On my hatch i have the b16 swap and I know whoever tuned it last didnt do their homeowrk. they failed to check a few boxes eliminating the IACV and the ELV. I was told they imported the stock B16a3 file but Im running an aftermarket intake, stock TB and aftermarket exhaust. Id like to use this setup to test it out but if its out of range what would happen? Is it possible to programm in a setpoint limit and have the display read MAX or OL? I would hope in my case this wouldnt be the result but I have little faith.

thanks for the help on my other project. im reading and comprehending still.

We cannot display AFR based in the NB sensor.

The NB sensor reading jumps from 0 to 1 V at a high speed.
What I would do if you have a NB sensor is to convert the clock to a simple digital voltmeter. Whatever voltage level is at the output of the sensor will be displayed in the clock.

If the sensor gets out of range in the rich side, it will read 1.0 volts, so you won't know if it is slightly rich only, or if you are throwing black smog through the exhaust.

The way we tune with a NB is we set the fuel to rich, and then start removing fuel until the reading starts to jump from 0 to 1 really fast. If you keep removing fuel after this point, the engine will start to shake and finally die.

In the other hand, the WB sensor reading will have a range of voltage from 0 to 5 Volts, since its resolution is bigger, it doesn't jump that fast, so its output voltage can be scaled with the simple y=mx+b formula. where y is the AFR, x is the voltage reading and m and b are constants I define from the specific WB sensor.

[Fixedit]

This is badass and I have no idea why this thread doesn't have more activity. Buzo are you still doing these? I'll PM you

[5 Speed Speeder]

is this still a thing? does this only work with obd1?

[2ndGenGuy]

It's not something you can just plug in and have work. It's completely custom. He basically "rewired" the LCD display in the clock to display other data. You have to have the knowledge of how a 7-segment display works, and some other basic electronics to do something like this. It's a bummer that the pictures are all gone. As usual with forums.

[Fixedit]

Haven't been able to get a hold of Buzo yet. Is he a facebook page regular?

[2ndGenGuy]

Doubt it. Never have seen him on there.

[MessyHonda]

if i remember he gave the car to his daughter and thats when he stop posting.

[Hazwan]

I'm gonna do something like this.. eventually ugh

[Fixedit]

Shit. Man if those pictures were still up I'd have a better shot trying to do this