suspension crunch sound

[RLong31]

I just got my 89 LXi back from Meineke. They replaced my rack and pinion, inner and outer tie rods, drivers side cv axle, oil pan gasket, changed the oil and did an alignment. Lot of work done, and the steering really feels a lot more responsive and tighter, which is good.

New problem, lol. When going over bumps.. the suspension crunches... and just sounds plain awful. I never noticed this before I had this last bit of work done. Could it be possible that since the other components are a little tightened up, that I am just now noticing this sound? Or do you think they may have messed something up?

I'm about 100% certain it is stock suspension parts, and it has 143k miles, so I'm sure it's due. I have searched around quite a bit, and a lot of people on here lower their cars, which I really have no interest in doing, and if I do... not more than an inch. I'm a big guy, it's already hard for me to get in and out of it because of my knee surgery anyway.

Also, I'm not looking for it to be a race car, so I don't need something amazing or expensive. If you guys could point me in the right direction for something fairly inexpensive, but give me decent (stock or slightly better) ride quality, that would be awesome. Give me your recommendations. Are there any advantages to lowering it? I'm mainly looking at economy as it's a daily driver... so mpgs are important in that regard.

[itzdave]

kyb gr2 struts are pretty cheap and are a little better than stock. then a set of some cheap lowering springs drop zones, or eibach, and you should have a decent setup. better than stock at least, and an inch or 2 drop...

[carotman]

It could come from a ball joint. Does it make the noise when you turn the wheels?

[Dr_Snooz]

If you're hearing disturbing noises after a shop did some work, get under there quick and make sure they did it right, put all the bolts back in, tightened them, etc. Don't wait for a wheel to fall off to find out that they messed something up.

[RLong31]

It doesn't make any sounds when turning... I just took it out for a quick spin. It's most noticeable and obnoxious when I'm going over speed bumps, or hitting dips in the road. Normal rumble in the street causes the sound as well. I pushed down on all 4 corners of the car... makes almost a "panting dog" sound, lol, and much worse in the front.

I found these for shocks.. the KYB GR-2s:
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm?id=16078
http://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm?id=16079

And they are pretty cheap... $100 (pair) for the front, and $74 (pair) for the rear.

As for the Eibach... I found this... only $200.
http://www.raceinspired.com/p-1953-eibach-pro-kit-lowering-spring-honda-accord-2dr-4dr-1986-1989.aspx

Will these items work together? I appreciate all the help guys.

[carotman]

sounds like a lower ball joint...

Have those checked ASAP!

[RLong31]

In replacing the tie rods and driver's cv axle... would they have touched the ball joints? Like would they have had to remove and repress them? And possibly damaged them? I can always take it back, but I don't really want to pay them to do any more work that can be done at home for much cheaper.

[ShyBoyCA6]

In replacing the tie rods and driver's cv axle... would they have touched the ball joints? Like would they have had to remove and repress them? And possibly damaged them? I can always take it back, but I don't really want to pay them to do any more work that can be done at home for much cheaper.

the shop is responsible for all the work they did. i think its possible that they may have moved the ball joint to get the CV axle out. have them inspect the work they did. tell them about the noise. i honestly dont trust shops that do that kind of work unless i known them for quite a while.

[RLong31]

I am leaning towards it being ball joints. The shocks make some noise when pushing down on them, but they recoil just fine and aren't leaking. I took some pictures of the lower and upper ball joints... they don't look like they are in too good of shape, and I'm guessing originals.

You can see evidence on the drivers side (where the cv axle was replaced) where they tampered with the lower ball joint, and it's oozing goo from it. I just don't see how they can put it back together, and then do an alignment with bad ball joints? If they did such a thorough inspection, why would they not catch that and try to sell me more work?

I just don't really wanna take it back there, and try to blame it on them, and them try and rope me into paying an arm and a leg to have it fixed. I guess with a car this age, I might as well suck it up and buy all new ball joints and call it a day.

[ShyBoyCA6]

Some shops will do that so you come back and get it replaced and pay more. but yeah its gonna be your ball joint.

[elpuma]

Yes the crunching sound is from your ball joint. I ignored my crunching sound for a while and on the 4th of this month it finally snapped and left me an hour away from home. Get it fixed ASAP!

[RLong31]

K, thanks guys. I will post pics later today when I get off work and show you what they look like. But I am going to call O'Reillys and order some new Moog ball joints, upper and lower for the front anyway.

[2oodoor]

If you have grease oozing out then the shop must have greased the joints which is commendable since most wouldn't after doing a cv job. They had to lower the control arm which would involve releasing the tie rod end and lower ball joint.
Dog panting? lol would seem more like control arm bushings or rear upper ball joints dry!

They may have over tightended control arm to compensate for worn out parts so they could hold the alignment till you got around the block, but I doubt it.

[RLong31]

Well rather than take it back to that shop, i ordered ball joints from o'reilley and will throw them on this weekend.

My other concern is that it feels like the car is wobbling, like a bounce. Almost as if there is a bubble in the drivers front tire. Tire is fine, i checked it. Doesnt happen the whole time i'm driving but its noticeable.

Either way i'm frustrated cuz i thought i had everything fixed and now i'm spending more time and money. Thats what i get for taking it to a shop i dont know or trust.

[RLong31]

OK... so finally some pictures.

Drivers side... lower ball joint
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0993.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0994.jpg

Drivers side upper ball joint
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0995.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0997.jpg

And a picture of the upper/ shock/coil etc. on drivers side
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0996.jpg

[RLong31]

And... passender side.

Lower ball joint, passenger side.
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0998.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_0999.jpg

Upper ball joint, passenger side
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_1001.jpg
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_1002.jpg

And the passenger side upper, spring/coil
http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/RLong31/1989%20Honda%20Accord/IMG_1003.jpg

[RLong31]

Should also note, that the crunch sound stopped today. I drove it to work and it was doing it. Sat in the sun for about 8+ hours, so maybe that had something to do with it? Didn't make the sound all the way home, and the wobble/bounce went away... but either way, I am replacing the ball joints, because I think they look bad enough to warrant it.

[carotman]

The upper ball joints are probably due for a replacement. Check the lower ones for free play but it wouldn't hurt to replace them either.

BTW, if you do get new OEM lower ball joints, don' freak out when you realize they don't have circlips, it's totally normal.

[RLong31]

Well, got the ball joints done. What an amazing difference. Steering and cornering is way better, more firm. Shocks and springs will have to come in a couple months when I can afford to spend money on this car again, lol. Plus I gotta save up for getting the timing belt fixed. Not sure I want to tackle that myself... seems like a major pain in the ass.

[88lxi-shortram]

only real hard part about a timing belt would be you have to take bottom cover off which involves removing the crank pulley... not a hard job if you get an extra hand. other than that its just loosen tension, take off old, align new, tighten up. if you do decide to do it yourself remember to line up the timing marks on the crank and cam pulley

[2oodoor]

heh I would take doing a timing belt over ball joint replacments anyday!

[RLong31]

Ball joints aren't all that bad when you have the right tools and you figure it out once. After that it's a breeze. Next time around it will be a snap.

Based on the research I've been doing around here, it looks like I need to remove the alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, and water pump... as well as jacking up the motor to remove the motor mount... oh, and moving the cruise control out of the way. Then I get to remove all the belts, the covers, take the belt off, make sure I don't screw up the timing... And I'm sure I'll want to replace any and all seals I can while I'm in there. Maybe the oil pump too. Since I can't figure out why I'm still leaking oil after the oil pan gasket was replaced. My $1000 car has turned into $3000... and soon gonna be 4, Grr.

[88lxi-shortram]

when you have the right tools and you figure it out once. After that it's a breeze. Next time around it will be a snap.

.

same goes for timing belt lol when i first had to tackle timing i was nervous and scared but as long as you understand the principal everything falls into place if you take your time and learn. you may have to move all those things you listed. i wouldnt know all i had to do was take my alternator belt off and move it up. i removed all those other things lol. but take my word for it since ive had expierience in the auto field... they will nickel and dime your til you cant put up with it to do a timing belt. you will save ALOT of money if you DIY

[Dr_Snooz]

Ball joints aren't all that bad when you have the right tools and you figure it out once. After that it's a breeze. Next time around it will be a snap.

Based on the research I've been doing around here, it looks like I need to remove the alternator, power steering pump, a/c compressor, and water pump... as well as jacking up the motor to remove the motor mount... oh, and moving the cruise control out of the way. Then I get to remove all the belts, the covers, take the belt off, make sure I don't screw up the timing... And I'm sure I'll want to replace any and all seals I can while I'm in there. Maybe the oil pump too. Since I can't figure out why I'm still leaking oil after the oil pan gasket was replaced. My $1000 car has turned into $3000... and soon gonna be 4, Grr.

Yep. The joys of driving an old car. The nice thing about 3g's is you can leave stuff go and they won't bite you.

You have the timing belt concept down. It's not rocket science, just a lot of work. If you haven't already, download the manual (http://honda.roadpwnage.com/manuals/pages/usdm-accord-1989-full.php) and read up on how to set and adjust the belt. It starts on p. 6-18.

[RLong31]

Yea, I have the manual on both computers, a cd, and I printed out the main one and the 89 supplement and have em in big binders, lol. Overkill, but I like it accessible. Haynes is a damn joke.

I'm making a list of stuff to replace... help me if I'm missing something:
Timing Belt
Water Pump
Camshaft seal
Crankshaft seal
Timing belt tensioner
Thermostat - cuz I'll have the coolant drained anyway, so I might as well right?
And of course more coolant

Do I need to replace the oil pump or it's seal, or both? I wanna drive this thing from San Diego to Vegas in a couple months so I want it to not break down, lol.

I wanted to go OEM on all this stuff from a dealership... so if anybody knows the part numbers so I can try to save some money and get it from Majestic... that would be awesome. I can find the belt, and water pump.. but want to double check on the seals and the tensioner.

[Dr_Snooz]

I would replace the oil pump seal. It's pretty cheap and it's four more bolts to remove when you have the timing belt out. They don't often fail, but when they do, they can make you lose oil pressure. If you chance it, you'll end up out in, say, Carmel and you'll notice tappet noise at idle. That will be your notice that it's failed. Then you'll be caught in the devil's dilemma. Is a tow bill back to, let's say, Walnut Creek cheaper than a new engine?

And yes, it will happen just like that. For one member on the board, it happened exactly like that. Can you guess who?