Overheating 88 Accord LX (carb) NEED HELP!

[Chaotica]

Hello all!,
My name is Patrick. I just bought me an 88 accord LX (carb) for $500! Great deal except it keeps overheating. So far that's the only major thing I can find wrong with it. I drove it for a full day a few weeks after I got and and got it legal and it ran great and it was like around 95 degrees outside but later in the evening about 6:00 it was getting hot all of a sudden and it broke down on me so I let it sit and put water in it and got it back to the house. So, here is what I have replaced on it to try and fix the problem: thermostat and gasket, coolant temp sending unit, radiator, and 3 jugs of coolant and no results. I've checked the upper hose its fine, not the lower one yet, water pump is not making any noise, the end of the heater hose was bulged so I just snipped it and put it back on, the oil is still oil and it is not milky or has any coolant in it. When it overheats the fans do turn on so I now its not the fans, although the temp gauge on the dash seems to go back and forth from working to not working. I just recently completely drained the cooling system to put new coolant in it and when I did white smoke was coming out of the radiator! Don't know what that means. I also took out the thermostat to see if that would help but it didn't seem to, I checked the upper and lower hose for heat, the upper got hot but the lower did not. I was expecting it to get hot a good bit after the upper did but it did not. I also tried bleeding the system but I cannot get a steady stream of coolant to come out, it just spurts liquid then steam. I checked on youtube and all of those its coming out of the tailpipe and its due to a blown or leaking head gasket. Is that the same problem I am having? This was the first time it has spewed white smoke. Any help is greatly appreciated! I apologize in advance if I have left anything out. Tomorrow I am going to test the cooling system pressure to see if it is leaking. I saw that on youtube too. Thanks in advance everyone!

[itzdave]

In my experience, if the gauge acts like it's working / not working, it sounds like the water level may be a little low. Don't forget to check the heater hoses as well for any small holes. Once the engine warms up, the radiator hoses should build some pressure, if not, I'd say u have a small leak in a hose. U can also park over a piece of cardboard to help show where it may be leaking something...

[TotaledTL]

Lower hose is just plain cold or lukewarm while upper hose is hot? Sounds like the radiator is obstructed to me. If you open the drain cock will it drain?

[car6289]

http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200204/200204.htm#_OptimizingOverheatingDiagnosis

[Chaotica]

Ok here's an update. So I went to autozone today and that with a rep there to see what he thought about it. His guess was that it was the head gasket. And that what I kinda narrowed it down to when I search on youtube for overheating issues. I was gonna borrow the pressure tester tool but I talked with the guy and he said that I would have to search for the leak once I got it up to pressure so that wasn't going to help me since I've been all over the car looking for leaks since this whole thing started so it must be inside the system.

So this is what I did: I bought Bar's leak seal for 30 bucks and a jug of coolant. Went back followed the directions: shake, pour about 1/2 directly into radiator, top of with coolant, put cap back on and start the engine and let it idle for 15 mins.

So here's where the problem started. At about 12 mins into idle it overheated again. So I turned off the engine and checked the radiator. Pulledthe cap off and there was a bunch of little white fibers in the spout! What's that?! It was like little mini cotton balls. And some black gunk but it definitely wasn't oil. I checked several times to be sure that it wasn't oil. It seemed to be like some kind of plastic of some sort. So I got mad and completely drained the system, saved the good coolant, and flush the entire system with the water hose in the radiator, drain plug out and engine on. The car did not overheat during this.

So then after I felt comfortable that the system was clean I decided to put on the cap to see what would happen. And still no overheating. So then I proceeded to keep filling the radiator with water to get it completely full and try to get the air out by squeezing the upper hose. Once it was full I let it run for about 30 mins and still good to go.

Next, I figured to take it out for a test to the end of the street and back. Good to go so I kept going. Went into a small neighborhood for about 5 mins at about 35-40 mph, and still good! So I figure go by the house just in case. Still no problem. I keep going and stop by the gas station for some gas. No problems and I continued to drive it for about 30 more mins. Still good to go so I come back home and let it idle while I top it off with coolant.

So now its just cooling off in the driveway and I might take it out later to see how she does. Although I'm still very cautious! Oh and by the way the lower hose finally got hot so I'm sure that the coolant is flowing, maybe there was an obstruction and I got it out when I flushed it with the hose. Hope so.

Well I still would like to hear everyone's comments and concerns so feel free to post whatever and maybe I might have missed something that you may have noticed. I'm looking forward to your posts and thanks for the help everyone.

P.s. I'm not sure I'm out the woods yet! Lol

[Dr_Snooz]

It sounds like you need new hoses for sure. If one is bulging then the rest are probably in pretty sad shape. They can collapse under load, leading to overheating. They can form bubbles on the inside that choke off coolant flow, leading to overheating. They can fail suddenly, on the road, far from home, leading to overheating and a very large tow bill. Replace all of them, including all the little bypass hoses. A flush is good but you want to follow it up with a thorough drain of the radiator and block and then fill with the proper ratio of coolant. I do not recommend Bar's, unless you want the heater to stop working.

The cooling system is very important. If it fails, you will either be spending a lot of money or scrapping the car. The cooling systems on these cars are easy to overlook, and many have been. If you like the car, and you will if you keep driving it, then spend the time and money to fix the cooling system properly. Half measures like cutting off hose ends and using stop leaks are not going to give you good results.

Good luck.

[TotaledTL]

Good advice. In a pinch or to get home, yes cutting off a hose end or otherwise repairing one is ok but don't scrimp on the hoses- just replace them, all of them if they appear to be old. They can look ok but aren't. It's cheap insurance. I recently replaced some that appeared ok but you could hear them 'crunch' inside when squeezed (the ones to & from the IM).

[Chaotica]

Ok well are there a total of 5 hoses? upper, lower, heater, and 2 to and from the firewall?

Also, its been running pretty decent although every time I get close or to my destination it wants to start overheating again, why is that? Also, when it does get a little warm the fans will cut on like they're supposed to but when it gets hot past 3/4 the fans wont cut on at all, whats up with that? Is there a certain point that they will not cut on? Replace the fan relay?

Yeah, so for now I have a band-aid on it (head gasket seal) but, the next thing I'm gonna do is replace all the hoses and gotta break down the whole thing and replace the head gasket. So how long do you estimate it will take to do that? Because I wanna get that done as soon as possible. Any tips on replacing that from anyone that has done this before?

[Dr_Snooz]

There's a gang of hoses. The manual shows all of them in the cooling system section. I hate to say it, but once you've let your cooling system deteriorate, it takes a lot of persistence to get it back to top shape. There are a lot of different components that control the fans and I think most people end up just easter egging (replacing random parts and hoping). It's not the best way to fix them, but I don't know of a better way at this point. The manual can explain how the cooling fans work in more detail.

For the head gasket, prepare yourself for a big job. Leave the intake manifold on as it's nearly impossible to get to the bolts without pulling the engine first. You've been overheating so much that you should take the head to a machine shop and make sure that it hasn't warped. It would be a shame to spend all that time and money and not have it seal right because the head is warped. You should check the block too, but that will be somewhat more difficult to get to the machine shop.

[g.frost]

..........Also, when it does get a little warm the fans will cut on like they're supposed to but when it gets hot past 3/4 the fans wont cut on at all, whats up with that? Is there a certain point that they will not cut on? Replace the fan relay?................

The fan should come on and stay on anytime the gauge starts climbing above half way or so. I would be looking to solve this issue ASAP. I suspect it may be your root problem; intermittent problem with the fan coming on.

If you are moving 40+mph down the road, ususally there is enough air flow the fan never turns on. When it is hot and you are moving slow or stuck in traffic, that's when it is essential that fan works consistently.

If you are caught with the temp gauge climbing above half way, either turn off the engine or turn the heater and blower on full. (nice on a hot summer day!) Whatever you do, DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE WHEN OVERHEATING. blown head gasket, warped head, and much worse will result.

[marklj]

Whatever you do, DO NOT RUN THE ENGINE WHEN OVERHEATING. blown head gasket, warped head, and much worse will result.

BTDT. Got the T shirt. Finally putting mine back together after the wife ran it hot. (Top radiator tank had split) See more here: http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76166

[Chaotica]

So here is another update. So now I decided to stop running just water and put in the proper coolant since I felt that it would not spew it from somewhere. I have done a complete oil change with filter, new air filter and new spark plugs. So while doing that I figured that I would recheck my fuses under the hood and in doing so I noticed that the spot labeled "Fan timer control unit" did not have a fuse in it so I installed the proper fuse, but in doing so I did not notice a major change in when the fans cut on or off.

So its been running pretty good I can go long distances without overheating, be in stop and go traffic and be fine. But what is really puzzling to me is that say that I am at a stop light, I'm fine just sitting there but once I get back up to speed all of a sudden the temp gauge will shoot up really fast and then come down really fast. What is the deal with that? Puzzling...:dunno:

[marklj]

So here is another update. So now I decided to stop running just water and put in the proper coolant since I felt that it would not spew it from somewhere. I have done a complete oil change with filter, new air filter and new spark plugs. So while doing that I figured that I would recheck my fuses under the hood and in doing so I noticed that the spot labeled "Fan timer control unit" did not have a fuse in it so I installed the proper fuse, but in doing so I did not notice a major change in when the fans cut on or off.

So its been running pretty good I can go long distances without overheating, be in stop and go traffic and be fine. But what is really puzzling to me is that say that I am at a stop light, I'm fine just sitting there but once I get back up to speed all of a sudden the temp gauge will shoot up really fast and then come down really fast. What is the deal with that? Puzzling...:dunno:

Possibly a defective thermastat? Pretty simple to swap out and cheap to try.

[TotaledTL]

... all of a sudden the temp gauge will shoot up really fast and then come down really fast. What is the deal with that? Puzzling...:dunno:

That sounds like some air is trapped in the syst. Try bleeding it then rechk./refill the rad. & coolant overflow resv.

[greentee76]

I would guess that you need a new radiator pressure cap. The cap holds the system under pressure, thereby raising its boiling point over the usual 212 deg f. Many cars are set to have the cooling fans set to come on well above that.
What ends up happening is that by the time the fan kicks on the coolant is already boiling and the fan has very little chance of stemming the tide of that reaction.
I used to work for an International truck dealership. International sets the cooling fan to come on at between 230-240 degs. These systems require 10 or 15psi system pressure. Unfortunately if you overheat one the cylinder liner orings melt down and you are looking at a 10,000-15,000 dollar in frame. All that for a part that costs 15$

Good luck!

[Chaotica]

Ok, so today I embarked on replacing my head gasket and valve cover gasket, everything was going smooth and then i get to the exhaust manifold. The bolts from the manifold to the head came off great but the 2 big pipes the shoot off of the left side are seriously on there and they will not budge even under all my body weight. I'm glad to say the it's not stripped though. So I tried to go up top to the intake manifold and take off the pipes there. The top one came off fine but then the one right below it, omg there's absolutely NO ROOM to get a tool in there to get it off. I also tried to take off the exhaust pipe from the manifold and its the same issue there too, it simply will not come off. I'm sure on both spots that the heat has pretty much sealed them together but man I GOTTA get it off or I will not be able to replace the gasket. Any suggestions on how to get those pipes off?

BTW: The radiator cap is new. Also, new thermostat and gasket as well.

I just looked at the manual and I might be able to just take off the exhaust manifold bracket and be okay, what do you think?

[marklj]

What I used when I did my cylinder head. Many rusted bolts. every one came loose.

http://www.blastercorporation.com/PB_Blaster.html

[nswst8]

What did the spark plugs look like when you changed them, if they didn't look like they where just steamed cleaned, then I would say that your head gasket is good. LEak down test will determine this as well.

I had a similar situation turned out that one of the hoses I bought fron napa had a piece of wood in in it when I installed it. I had to literally remove the hoses one by one to find the obstruction.

Obstruction is what is sounds like,

No cross contamination of oil and water/coolant is a good sign.

If you have already broke loose the head bolts, then proceed. I use PB Blaster and the good old fashion "TORCH WRENCH" Heat, then PB Blaster wait 20 mins, repeat as nessasary.

[Chaotica]

Well when I replaced the spark plugs they looked fine according the pictures of various plugs in the back of my Haynes manual. Although, I'm still thinking that it is still the head gasket because when I fill up the radiator sometimes there is foam that comes out of it. I had to put it all back together today because I could not go any further and I have to go to work tomorrow, but once everything was back together and I started to fill it back up foam kept coming out of the radiator although the car stayed at normal temp and of course when it got warm the fans cut on like normal. So, that's why I think its the head gasket. I've already replaced the radiator, radiator cap, thermostat and thermostat gasket, coolant temp. sending unit, and plenty of coolant (which most of it went to the ground, love it! :mad: ) Anyways, I'm going to see if I can just stop by a shop to see if they can use their tools to bust it loose and then I can proceed with replacing the gasket.

Oh, and while I was trying to get the the head gasket, how in the hell am I supposed to keep the intake manifold on when I take off the head?! OMG! On the one hand I can see that it will be very advantageous to keep it on but how am I supposed to manage all those hoses? Will it just lean back to some degree toward the firewall and be okay? Or will I have to somehow keep it lifted up to replace the gasket? Lil help here please!:help:

[Oldblueaccord]

Since you refilled it I would bleed the coolant again. You want water running out of the bleeder. Just like bleeding brakes. I rev the motor while doing it.


wp

[lupen]

Another problem could be the internal collapse of a hose. The hoses have an internal external layer that is separated by fibre mesh. If the inner hose splits and delaminates from the exterior hose. this will cause a blockage from the flap of inner rubber. The fibres would then show up in the rad.

Just a thought...

[Chaotica]

Yeah, I think I'm in a good financial position to replace all of my hoses. But since I put it all back together since I tried to replace the head gasket it's making a rattling noise like the first time I truly overheated. It sounds like a diesel engine but it only does it when I hit the accelerator too much but the engine is not overheating? What is that so I can check on it to see if it is messed up.

[Dr_Snooz]

Does it sound like this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZ9JLcW6FoI&feature=related

[nswst8]

Poor mans leak down test:

One old modified spark plug to accept compressed air hose will let you isolate the suspected problem.

Put each cylinder at TDC when inspecting.

Pressurise cylinders one at a time, remove oil fill cap, radiator cap. Listen and look for escaping air.

If coming from radiator = bad head gasket
valve cover = bad rings and intake valves & seals
Tail pipe = exhuast valve

[Chaotica]

Ok so I got the head off and the gasket looks like sh*t and I took it to a local shop to see if it was warped and he said it was. So now I'm going to get it resurfaced but the guy that I talked to about resurfacing it said that since I was doing that I would have to buy all new cylinder head bolt. OMG! and I looked it up and they are super expensive! Do I really need to get a whole new set?

Here are some pics of the head gasket.
Top of Gasket:
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/435/img00238201109101159.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/42/img00238201109101159.jpg/)http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/6527/img00239201109101159.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/img00239201109101159.jpg/)
Bottom of Gasket:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8455/img00241201109101159.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/img00241201109101159.jpg/)http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/5207/img00243201109101200.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/692/img00243201109101200.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

[Oldblueaccord]

I cant see buying new head bolts they can be reused on our motors,


wp

[Chaotica]

Well, I think I'm royally screwed... the good news is that I got my head gasket on and everything back together except for the distributor will not go on to the head flush and my timing is completely out of wack! I'm not sure if the hole where the distributor goes got messed up when the machine shop resurface my head or if I damaged it taking it out? I'm pretty sure that I didn't, it came out pretty smooth. OMG! I don't know anything about the timing or the first thing to do. So, I'm going to see what the shop down the street will charge me to fix the timing. I've tried to start it and its just wrrr wrrrr and that's also when I do try to start it the distributor moves! I know that's not right! Any thoughts on how to fix it or how much it would cost the shop to get it fixed?

[Dr_Snooz]

The distributor tab is designed to fit into the head in the right direction only. If it's off, it will prevent the distributor from seating flush. Keep turning the rotor until it slips into the head and the distributor fits flush. Also double check TDC on the block and the head to make sure the belt timing isn't off.

[Chaotica]

Yeah, I did that and it still is not seating right. I also put marks on the belt and the pulley to make sure that I put the timing belt exactly where it was and checked the TDC marks everything was good. But, I checked the timing belt again and the marks are off from where they should be so it has skipped when I tried to start it. So, I'm just completely lost on how to fix it.

[Oldblueaccord]

I f you tried to start it the marks won't fall back to TDC. The motors lands more or less where ever it wants too.

Also you want TDC on the compression stroke ( air out the spark plug hole) not the exhaust stroke (air out the exhaust) Then the distributor rotor should line up with the #1 spark plug wire(tower) on the cap.


wp

[Chaotica]

Well I took it down to the local shop and the guy checked out the distributor and one of the prongs that go into the head was bent. I checked the service manual and it said that it would be different. But it's supposed to be OFFSET not BENT. But he kinda filed it down a bit to get it to fit flush to the head and it cranked up! Yea! Not quite out of the woods yet though.

So, now it kinda idles high at about 2k and when I tap the pedal to get it to come down it goes down to 1k and stays there for a little bit fluctuating a bit and then it dies. So, what I'm going to do is go to the junk yard and get a distributor and try to see if that will fix the problem. The guy also checked the timing and he said that it was OK.

So to conclude this thread on overheating, the root cause was a head gasket that was leaking compression into the cooling system. I'm lucky that it didn't blow completely. But the car is operating at normal temps and the fans are cutting on when they are supposed to. At the moment I'm just running straight water, but next thing is to flush the system and put new coolant in it and get a distributor.

Any other thoughts on this thread are surely welcome. And I want to thank everyone that has helped me on this issue. It was extremely daunting at first but with everyone's help I got through it to success! A heart-felt thanks goes out to everyone that posted and took the time to read my posts! Thank you!!!!!!! :cheers:

[Dr_Snooz]

I would check the head and block to make sure they are both hitting TDC at the same time. Unless the shop checked that specifically, it could still be wrong. If they are off, you'll have to pull the belt and re-install after setting them both to TDC. Be careful when you pull on the belt to install it. You can move the crank off TDC if you aren't careful.

[Chaotica]

Yeah the guy at the shop checked the head and the block to make sure that they are on time. I was also thinking to use a timing light to see if they were on time. Do you think that is still necessary since the guy checked it already?

At the moment I'm in the process of trying to find a distributor from a junk yard but all I have to go off of is what they look like. Do you know what distributor our cars use? I'm also checking on Ebay but I'm not sure which one to check out as far as like name brand and/or type. Like I said all I have to go off of is what they look like, so I'm trying to find one that looks exactly the same.

Also, the guy at the shop said that it could be one of the vacuum hoses from the carburetor, and he messed with that for a while with no results.

[Dr_Snooz]

To be honest, it doesn't sound like a distributor problem. Not really sure what problem it is, but I'd probably be looking more at the carb and less at the distributor.

[doc]

i got a carb if want to buy