Help with completetion of custom front crossmember

[mykwikcoupe]

I bought Johnny O's old front tubular front lower crossmember from a fellow member. It was shipped to me cracked and in need of alot of help. I brought it to a fabricator I use and he suggesting adding gussets to either end for stiffening of the piece in a lateral fashion. I agreed and he welded in the pieces as well as fix the crack that needed patching.

Later Itzdave sent to me a local race shop and I grabbed hiems and a 1 1/16 aluminum rod. The cross member attachment is figured out but this is where I need the help. The stock radius rod attached to the front hub with 2 bolts. The new hiems will attach to the front hubs using the front bolt only. I would like to utilize both bolts for added stability and strength. My plan was to use a piece of plate to tie these 2 bolts together. I would drill a plate the correct center to center spacing, insert the 2 mounting bolts through these holes, The hiems would go into the front hole and a 1/2in spacer in the rear hole. I would torque thse new longer bolts to stock spec.

My questions are as follows, is this a good valid idea?

The hiems available to me are 1/2in holes, they make a teflon spacer that I can easily drill to the needed size. I was assured these teflon inserts are used for very rugged racing and not often replaced and they would be more then strong enough for my situation? The rear spacer at the hub side would be the same quality and strength.

The plate I grabbed from work is some type of stainless steel used to support conduit. Its 1/10th inch thick x 1 2/10th wide. I am not familiar in any way to tensile strength but it looks to be more then strong enough. What do you think? My next option is a similar stainless but 1/4in thick. This I think would decrease the distance the axle has to travel before contact would occur with the raised bolt heads on the hub side of the radius rod connection.

What or how would you change the setup?

I know the plate will hinder movement of the hiems on the hub side connection. The crossmember side has an extended travel link installed in it allowing possibly 23* total twist.

My car has moved less then 2 blocks in 5 years. It does have the JDM B20A installed in it and it will rarely be driven but could be used to its full potential when driven. Thanks for the help

http://imageshack.us/g/10/img20110918161329.jpg/

[cygnus x-1]

What you describe is exactly how Explicit Speed makes some of their "traction bars" (IMHO they are simply cross members and not "traction bars", but that's what they call them). But here is a picture from their website:


http://explicitspeedperformance.net/myPictures/LCA%20bracket.JPG



I would be inclined to use a link strip maybe a little thicker than your 0.1", probably more like 3/16". But 0.1" would work fine since the plate is only taking half the load from the heim, and it's supported by the bolt directly behind it. For the spacer I wouldn't use teflon, because it's soft and unnecessarily expensive. Steel or aluminum would be fine. You could even just stack up some washers.


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[mykwikcoupe]

would the fact that my material is stainless make its lack of thickness a mute point? Also although they arent the same piece of material, can i take 2 single 1/10th thick pieces and stack them ontop eachother making a single 3/16th thick piece? Ill look around and see if I can find something a bit thicker but I do have that 1/4" material as well. Thats pretty much what I am building yes.

[2drSE-i]

That picture is pretty much exactly what I was thinking when I started reading. Sounds like your on the right track! If nothing else, use the thicker steel. It'd suck BAD if you found out the hard way it wasn't strong enough.

[cygnus x-1]

would the fact that my material is stainless make its lack of thickness a mute point?

There are many grades of steel, ranging from pretty soft to really damn hard. In general stainless steels tend to be softer than non-stainless steels but it depends on the grades.

And speaking of grades, you might find drilling through that stuff is tough going depending on what it is. The formable grades (made to be bendable) can be quite gummy and will want to mush around and tear more than cut. When you go to drill the plates, clamp them down really well, use a slow drill speed with a fair amount of down force, and put lots of oil on the bit and part while it's cutting. If you try to just pick at it slowly it may work harden and really make a mess. Best bet would be to use a uni-bit if you have one available (they are awesome for thin material) but a standard drill bit will work too. With a standard bit, don't try to step drill it, just drill it to size in one shot. Step drilling makes it more likely the bit will grab and pull through, or pull the part out of the vise.




Also although they arent the same piece of material, can i take 2 single 1/10th thick pieces and stack them ontop eachother making a single 3/16th thick piece? Ill look around and see if I can find something a bit thicker but I do have that 1/4" material as well. Thats pretty much what I am building yes.

Stacking them would certainly work, or you could use the 1/4" also. Actually I would just use the 1/4" because that way you only have to make 2 pieces instead of 4. I'm lazy. :D


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[Rendon LX-i]

Or you could sell it to me LOL.

[mykwikcoupe]

make offer, Im not attached to it in any way but have it so figured I would use it. If the price is right it could be yours.

[mykwikcoupe]

well its been quite some time but I think Ill start to have some time to start working on the green coupe again. Itll be nice to finish some of the easier projects and get the parts off the shelf and space back in the garage. I think I figured out how to compensate for the difference in size of the ID of the hiem and the OD of the bolt that ties the control arm to the radius rod.

I'm looking at colson spanner bushings. I will get them in 1/2inx3x8 and drill the inside to 10mm so its a perfect fit. The best they make is a series 2 and its rated for a side load of 325lbs. I will have 2 of these so I could assume that value would double? I have contacted then asking to have a custom bushing made for me and the price. Once again though I have the choice, stainless or steel? I'm still looking for materials used but both say they are hardened and coated. I suppose a quick after spray of rustoleum would fix it anyways. The parts are pretty cheap so I'm surprised I didn't find these earlier

[cygnus x-1]

They call these reducer bushings. I did exactly the same sort of thing when I built a heim link setup for my Prelude. The bolts were 12mm but the heims were 5/8"ID. I searched forever and couldn't find anything metric so I made my own from rod stock. You could use these drilled out to 10mm:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AAF-ALL18565/

They should be the correct length too since they're made specifically for heim hoints.


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well its been quite some time but I think Ill start to have some time to start working on the green coupe again. Itll be nice to finish some of the easier projects and get the parts off the shelf and space back in the garage. I think I figured out how to compensate for the difference in size of the ID of the hiem and the OD of the bolt that ties the control arm to the radius rod.

I'm looking at colson spanner bushings. I will get them in 1/2inx3x8 and drill the inside to 10mm so its a perfect fit. The best they make is a series 2 and its rated for a side load of 325lbs. I will have 2 of these so I could assume that value would double? I have contacted then asking to have a custom bushing made for me and the price. Once again though I have the choice, stainless or steel? I'm still looking for materials used but both say they are hardened and coated. I suppose a quick after spray of rustoleum would fix it anyways. The parts are pretty cheap so I'm surprised I didn't find these earlier

[Oldblueaccord]

would the fact that my material is stainless make its lack of thickness a mute point? Also although they arent the same piece of material, can i take 2 single 1/10th thick pieces and stack them ontop eachother making a single 3/16th thick piece? Ill look around and see if I can find something a bit thicker but I do have that 1/4" material as well. Thats pretty much what I am building yes.

I would not use Stainless just plain steel. A small piece like that is pretty cheap I would say your fab person has some in his junk bin he would le.t you have.

EDIT they should have 10 mm rod ends I would think but I guess that would mean buying new.

wp

[lostforawhile]

I could probably make you one of those,it looks simple, I would need to get the thickness of the spacer needed or if you can find me a heim exactly the same, I have extra hubs to measure, I could probably whip up the spacer plates and spacer in a few minutes, probably 1018 steel, edit, can you get your fab guy to take his caliper and measure the heim thickness from one side of the bolt hole to the other? that would be easier

[mykwikcoupe]

Metric hiems with a thread pitch to match what is existing was impossible. I tried for months. I settles on a standard replacement but the hub end needs to be modified either the bolts or the hiems.the horns was a much easier fix. Lost if you can weld up that tie bracket for me that would be awesome. The hiems are ¹/2 thick. Let me know how much you would like. Just need to drill the holes and weld on the spacer. Make it strong please.

[lostforawhile]

I'll try to take some measurements this weekend, doesn't look like much, I wish Bobby hadn't got cancer he was one hell of a welder, I've got a ton of material to chose from and of course I'll make it strong, I wouldn't want anything to happen to someone here, I'll work something out eventually to maby trade some parts or something, no hurry ,I'll figure out something,

[mykwikcoupe]

The only concern as stated before would be hieght. Don't use a material so thick it ribs the axle. Don't forget the ebrale handle as well

[lostforawhile]

The only concern as stated before would be hieght. Don't use a material so thick it ribs the axle. Don't forget the ebrale handle as well

yea I know it's been crazy is all, these look like a simple project

[lostforawhile]

Metric hiems with a thread pitch to match what is existing was impossible. I tried for months.

ahhem, metric rod end bearings,both left and right hand threads in every size imaginable
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=AURORAMETRIC

[lostforawhile]

I'm pretty sure one of those will screw on to the factory pieces,this would solve the clearance issue and the mounting issue,they also have the jam nuts,which are very important and hard to find in metric, and the proper fitting grease seals, all you would need at the crossmember are welded on nuts for the bolts going through the heim to bolt to, maby some simple brackets, but you have a ton more clearance there

[cygnus x-1]

ahhem, metric rod end bearings,both left and right hand threads in every size imaginable
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=AURORAMETRIC


Metric rod ends are easy to find. The problem is finding tubes with metric threaded ends. Sure you can make your own, but it's easier to just use imperial rod ends and tubes and make some sleeves to adapt to the metric bolts.

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[lostforawhile]

Metric rod ends are easy to find. The problem is finding tubes with metric threaded ends. Sure you can make your own, but it's easier to just use imperial rod ends and tubes and make some sleeves to adapt to the metric bolts.

C|well I think if he used the factory locating arms and just made brackets to adapt the rod ends screwed on to them it would work a lot easier

[cygnus x-1]

well I think if he used the factory locating arms and just made brackets to adapt the rod ends screwed on to them it would work a lot easier


Oh, now I see what you mean. Put rod ends on the stock radius rods, but only at the cross-member end. That could work if the lengths match up right. And of course the threads would have to match those of an available rod end. I have no idea what the threads on the radius rods are, except that they're metric.

EDIT: I was curious so I looked it up. The threads on the end of the radius rod are 12mm diameter, but I can't find the pitch. It also looks like the rods have two threads on them, a larger one farther up and a smaller one on the end. The larger threads are for the adjuster and the smaller ones clamp the bushing stack together. To be honest I never really payed much attention to this part, even though I did replace the bushings some years ago. I was thinking that the ends were just a long threaded section of a single diameter, but apparently not.

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[Oldblueaccord]

Lost if I am following the hole pattern is the holes in the LCA so if you have one laying around.

I was assuming he was using a custom strut link from the picture not reusing the stock one.



wp

[mykwikcoupe]

Yes stock lower control arm just a custom radius rod. The stock bolt pattern on the lower arm or radius rods would work for proper spacing.

[lostforawhile]

ok so whats the plan? do you want to use the stock rods with rod ends to the crossmember? I've seen that done and it seems to make the most sense to me. I think you would want both both bolts on the control arm from looking at it,

[mykwikcoupe]

I am using a custom cross member that accepts hiems on both ends. The cross member side is complete and finished. The lower control arm side only has a single bolt hole that connects to the arm. I will not be using the stock radius rod but will be using the stock lower control arm. If you produced a bracket like what is in post #2 then that's exactly what I would like. As you can see from the picture, the bolt seems to rub on the axle. I will try to find a very strong low profile bolt to take this place. The height of the hiems is 5/8 of n inch. The spacer on the rearward lower control arm connection point needs to be 5/8in tall and welded to the flat stock to tie the front lower control arm connection point.

[lostforawhile]

I am using a custom cross member that accepts hiems on both ends. The cross member side is complete and finished. The lower control arm side only has a single bolt hole that connects to the arm. I will not be using the stock radius rod but will be using the stock lower control arm. If you produced a bracket like what is in post #2 then that's exactly what I would like. As you can see from the picture, the bolt seems to rub on the axle. I will try to find a very strong low profile bolt to take this place. The height of the hiems is 5/8 of n inch. The spacer on the rearward lower control arm connection point needs to be 5/8in tall and welded to the flat stock to tie the front lower control arm connection point.

what I would suggest is to modify a factory set of radius rods and screw one of those heims on the stock threads,this would let you use both bolts on the control arm side just like factory, you could cut a section out of the factory rod if it's too long and have a rod sleeve welded over it to make it shorter

[mykwikcoupe]

I would but I already have everything except for the bracket. Also in a previous thread I was reading,, there was speculation over whether the stock radius rod was even very strong. That alone sent me in the direction i went.

[lostforawhile]

I would but I already have everything except for the bracket. Also in a previous thread I was reading,, there was speculation over whether the stock radius rod was even very strong. That alone sent me in the direction i went.

well I've never seen a broken one in all the years I've been hunting parts, if you managed to break or bend one the rest of the car is probably screwed anyway

[mykwikcoupe]

Well I've gotten this far. Will you make the pieces for me.

[lostforawhile]

Well I've gotten this far. Will you make the pieces for me.

sure I can make it just making sure of exactly what you wanted to do was all

[lostforawhile]

I didn't forget you, just trying to get the lincoln back on the road, have to drop the gas tank yet, stupid fords

[mykwikcoupe]

finally getting back to this project. I seem to have lost the bushings to reduce the 1/2in hiem to the 12mm bolt. i was thinking instead of purchasing again, i would drill and tap the lower control arm to a 1/2in bolt. its very slightly larger and no bushing would be used at all which to is a better design. The question would be, is the lower control arm still strong enough after the loss of minor material? What do you think, anyone?

[cygnus x-1]

Tapping the control arms for a 1/2-20 bolt will be tricky because it's so close to 12mmx1.25. The thread pitches are close enough that you might get away with it, but you''l have to be very careful when you drill out the 12mm threads. I think I would do it a little differently.

I had a very similar problem with the Samurai I'm working on. I'm doing a disc brake conversion in the back and I found that the rotor I'm using has 1/2" lug holes while the lug studs are 12mm. There is no central alignment register so the rotor would slop around on the wheel flange, thereby screwing up the caliper alignment. I managed to find some brass tubing at the hardware store that has a 0.5" OD and 12mm ID. So I cut some short pieces from it and put them on the lugs as alignment bushings. You could do the same thing with your heim connection.

The tubing is that stuff made for craft type projects. Hobby stores and some better hardware stores (Ace, True Value, etc.) will carry it.



http://bluegreenlabs.com/Suzuki/CaliperMountFitting.jpg


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